An interesting summer awaits - the squad next season

[Balham]

On Baxter: I see glimpses on McDonald in him; that feeling that the game slows down for him. He desperately needs a good preseason to get his fitness up but playing in a free role behind a tricky front man he could cause the opposition a nightmare next season. An example is the cross for Flynn's goal against Charlton - no-one else in a Blades shirt would have seen that, let alone judged it perfectly to clear Wood's head but drop for Flynniesta.

I also can't believe I forgot...

Defence:
Westlake: seemed a good signing when Danny Wilson convinced him to turn down an extension at Walsall to join the Blades, with compensation in the region of £50,000 agreed between the clubs. However, he spent his 18 months in a red and white shirt playing one good game for every five bad games, with crucial lapses in concentration frequently costing us goals. On loan at Mansfield, his time at the Lane will almost certainly come to an end when his contract expires in June.

Departures:
Westlake: cannot foresee him getting an extension when he's been as poor as he has. Will be released on a free and will probably pop up at a mid-table league two side, before his inability to stay switched on, particularly at crosses from the opposite flank, costs his side goals and brings about a drop down the leagues.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I'm afraid that, if we didn't have a whipping boy, it wouldn't be United.

Jose is one of those game-changers. Never going to buzz around like SS, liable to mistakes but has excellent vision and a 'footballer's brain'.

Just another vital ingredient in Clough's soup.

Clough also said his hold up play was the best at the club. While he's not the typical target man, his good touch and balance enables him to do this well. If he loses more weight maybe he'll actually get worse at it? Anyway, I've always seen him as a temporary solution as a striker. He doesn't score enough goals, doesn't move like a goalgetter should in the box and is too immobile and slow to run into the channels.

It remains to be seen if Clough plans to use a formation that suits him next season when we've brought a couple of specialist strikers in. Clough has very much seemed a fan of him so far though.

 

[sitwell]

Great players keep possession of the ball ,he gives the ball away to the opposition more than anyone else at the club ,Stephen Quinn has the same problem ,but he is a better player as he always makes himself available ,his ball retention is why he wont be a regular starter in the premier league..As for making a position for him in the team ,its a non starter ,he has to adapt his own game to fit into the side ,personally I don't think he can.

 

[OllyBlade]

Clough also said his hold up play was the best at the club. While he's not the typical target man, his good touch and balance enables him to do this well. If he loses more weight maybe he'll actually get worse at it? Anyway, I've always seen him as a temporary solution as a striker. He doesn't score enough goals, doesn't move like a goalgetter should in the box and is too immobile and slow to run into the channels.

It remains to be seen if Clough plans to use a formation that suits him next season when we've brought a couple of specialist strikers in. Clough has very much seemed a fan of him so far though.

Yep conundrum next season as to how to balance the midfield. At the moment I see Scougall as more important than Baxter to how we're playing, due to his skill at running with the ball.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Re: Baxter

He is the one player we have that can hold the ball and see the bigger picture, he is very sensible with his choice of passes and he is one person that can be calm in the final third. Yes Scougall and Murphy are very good attacking players, but their strength is doing it on the counter attack at pace, sometimes you need an alternative.

Baxter has been playing as a lone striker, when it is obvious he will be more affective when he has a striker playing ahead of him further up the pitch. Even so, he has contributed immensely. You don't go on a run like we have by carrying players.

It will be tricky when we do have that illusive striker trying to find the right balance in midfield - but that is a brilliant problem to have!

Its obvious which players need to be let go and Baxter wouldn't be anywhere near that list. Pretty silly to suggest he is.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Great players keep possession of the ball ,he gives the ball away to the opposition more than anyone else at the club ,Stephen Quinn has the same problem ,but he is a better player as he always makes himself available ,his ball retention is why he wont be a regular starter in the premier league..As for making a position for him in the team ,its a non starter ,he has to adapt his own game to fit into the side ,personally I don't think he can.

If Clough wants to play with a creative player behind the main striker that is Baxter's preferred role and I think he will be first choice. With the current formation I agree, there's no ideal role for him.

Regarding giving possession away I agree that he does that a lot, but it must also be kept in mind that Baxter, the way he plays, trying to find space between the opposition defence and midfield, will always be aggressively closed down. Not only that, Baxter often tries killer passes, difficult passes which requires great vision, timing and accuracy.

Contrast this to Doyle, who in the current formation regularly has a lot of time on the ball, often isn't closed down too aggressively and who usually play easy, short passes sideways and backwards. It is only natural that Baxter will give the ball more than Doyle, despite being technically better.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Great players keep possession of the ball ,he gives the ball away to the opposition more than anyone else at the club ,Stephen Quinn has the same problem ,but he is a better player as he always makes himself available ,his ball retention is why he wont be a regular starter in the premier league..As for making a position for him in the team ,its a non starter ,he has to adapt his own game to fit into the side ,personally I don't think he can.

He's fitted into the team pretty well these last 3 months...

 

[Bergen Blade]

Re: Baxter



Baxter has been playing as a lone striker, when it is obvious he will be more affective when he has a striker playing ahead of him further up the pitch. (...)

It will be tricky when we do have that illusive striker trying to find the right balance in midfield - but that is a brilliant problem to have!

Say we bring in Ched Evans to play up front next season. Baxter will be hoping that Clough will chose the formation to the left (photo below), so that he can play centrally behind Evans. But if Clough is determined to play the formation he's used most often this season (to the right, below), Baxter has to adapt to the roles of Scougall and Coady. He's done that on occasions when we've been chasing games, but there is usually a requirement for more mobility, to get up and down the pitch for those roles.

 

[Bergen Blade]

He's fitted into the team pretty well these last 3 months...

We've scored just six goals the last nine league matches though, so we definitely need to look at ways of improving our goalscoring. I think that will imply Baxter won't play regularly as a striker.

 

[Pinchy]

Say we bring in Ched Evans to play up front next season. Baxter will be hoping that Clough will chose the formation to the left (photo below), so that he can play centrally behind Evans. But if Clough is determined to play the formation he's used most often this season (to the right, below), Baxter has to adapt to the roles of Scougall and Coady. He's done that on occasions when we've been chasing games, but there is usually a requirement for more mobility, to get up and down the pitch for those roles.

NC has used the formation(s) to suit the players at his disposal. As he begins (it will take time) to shape HIS team, I'm sure he will revert to 4-4-2 as his starting point. He is on record saying that's the way to play in English football.

 

[S5Blade]

Say we bring in Ched Evans to play up front next season.

Now you have started it, queue a 375 pages thread on why he should and shouldnt play for us.....

 

[sitwell]

NC has used the formation(s) to suit the players at his disposal. As he begins (it will take time) to shape HIS team, I'm sure he will revert to 4-4-2 as his starting point. He is on record saying that's the way to play in English football.

I agree Pinchy and I just don't see where Baxter will fit in ,only as a strike partner ,but I personally don't think it would work. Would you go with Flynn-Scougall-Doyle-Murphy ?

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Say we bring in Ched Evans to play up front next season. Baxter will be hoping that Clough will chose the formation to the left (photo below), so that he can play centrally behind Evans. But if Clough is determined to play the formation he's used most often this season (to the right, below), Baxter has to adapt to the roles of Scougall and Coady. He's done that on occasions when we've been chasing games, but there is usually a requirement for more mobility, to get up and down the pitch for those roles.

I'd argue that the formation on the right is the one we have seen for the majority of NC's reign, and is the one we're likely to see next season.

Coady and Doyle have been the sitting midfielders with 3 attack minded players in front of them.

Baxter can play off a main striker or in behind. He will be vital to us next season.

For some fans to highlight him as a potential weak link baffles me.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

I agree Pinchy and I just don't see where Baxter will fit in ,only as a strike partner ,but I personally don't think it would work. Would you go with Flynn-Scougall-Doyle-Murphy ?

Clough barely used the 4-4-2 at Derby, and hasn't so far here.

Good players fit into many systems, Baxter is a good player.

 

[itsinyerblood]

I know this has been written about several times before, but whether Evans does, or doesn't return to SUFC, I wonder what's in store from the off?

Surely, the hoped for promotion drive needs to begin from day one of the new season, not on the hope that Evans will be the difference between another season where we consolidate our place as Division1 regulars, or whether we actually seek to be in contention for promotion?

At the moment I'm hearing woeful pleas of 'If only we had 7 or 8 games left' or 'If only Clough had been manager from the beginning of the season'. Hitting the ground running is the mantra we're hearing about next season, and as Evans isn't expected to be with us until October at the earliest, what's planned to start the season at a gallop?

It's all if's, and's, and but's, and I doubt even Clough knows exactly who'll lead the forward line at this point, but the whole circus that surrounds Evans' re-introduction back into the fold tends to lose sight of certain essentials. By the time Evans is with us we may have already played a minimum of 10-12 games, and these games should act as a springboard to launch our promotion push, not as a waiting period while Evans is assessed whether he's worthy of a starting place in the team.

We need to have at least one proven striker in place when the season begins, to do otherwise will be to put our next campaign at risk.

 

[MBoreman]

In attacking areas Baxter always looks the most likely to do something. Yes he's a slight luxury but you need those players to win you games. Next season I'd like to see him play behind a striker rather than being the striker with Coady (usually) behind him. If we don't get Coady back I'd like to see Flynn-Doyle-Scougall-Murphy behind Baxter behind someone like Wilson. If we don't sign a striker I'd move murphy up top and put someone else (McFadzean?) out wide.

Sitwell, were you not a Quinn fan? If so I thought you'd have learnt not to make the same mistake of slagging off our best player, which I think Baxter is bar Maguire.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I'd argue that the formation on the right is the one we have seen for the majority of NC's reign, and is the one we're likely to see next season.

Coady and Doyle have been the sitting midfielders with 3 attack minded players in front of them.

Baxter can play off a main striker or in behind. He will be vital to us next season.

For some fans to highlight him as a potential weak link baffles me.

The one on the right has one sitting midfielder (Doyle) with Scougall and Coady to the side of him.

Post #14 in this thread shows how I've seen it most of the time:

http://s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/formation.33323/#post-574622

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

The one on the right has one sitting midfielder (Doyle) with Scougall and Coady to the side of him.

Post #14 in this thread shows how I've seen it most of the time:

http://s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/formation.33323/#post-574622

Yeah that's good analysis, but I note the examples used are from the game against Forest - one which we'd expect to be more defensive.

My point is that Baxter is a vital player who is capable of playing in numerous roles, as he has done already to great affect.

 

[wizadry]

Even though baxter IS a MIDFIELDER,yes MIDFIELDER,clough has played him infront of porter ,paynter and miller before his loan.It goes to show how highly clough thinks of him that he tries to get him in the team no matter what,and again shows how many strikers we actually need.He will score more goals playing deeper,than he will as an out and out striker.The role in which he played against cambridge was perfect for him,ok it was only cambridge but you still have to play it.
What im actually trying to say is if you think baxter is a striker then you really need to watch him a bit more closely

 

[ZoneManWilf]

Clough barely used the 4-4-2 at Derby, and hasn't so far here,

Yes he has, we played 4-4-2 a fair bit when he first took over to solidify the team with 2 banks of 4. We played this way at Villa for example.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

Clough medicine?

Especially if a certain Mr Kenny came back

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Yes he has, we played 4-4-2 a fair bit when he first took over to solidify the team with 2 banks of 4. We played this way at Villa for example.

Ok fair point, I'll upgrade it to a "he's barley used it here", handful of times max.

Baxter was in that 4-4-2 that won at Villa too...

 

[wizadry]

Ok fair point, I'll upgrade it to a "he's barley used it here", handful of times max.

Baxter was in that 4-4-2 that won at Villa too...

Yes,that villa match he spreaded the ball around all over ,although he wasnt unbelievable ,the class was there for all to see.As league 1 standards go he is class simple as that,just needs that good pre season fitness regime to kick in and i can see him running the show next year

 

[sitwell]

In attacking areas Baxter always looks the most likely to do something. Yes he's a slight luxury but you need those players to win you games. Next season I'd like to see him play behind a striker rather than being the striker with Coady (usually) behind him. If we don't get Coady back I'd like to see Flynn-Doyle-Scougall-Murphy behind Baxter behind someone like Wilson. If we don't sign a striker I'd move murphy up top and put someone else (McFadzean?) out wide.

Sitwell, were you not a Quinn fan? If so I thought you'd have learnt not to make the same mistake of slagging off our best player, which I think Baxter is bar Maguire.

Why does it have to degenerate into slagging a player off ? Just discussing players ,I think both are good footballers but both have deficiencies which hold up their other attributes. I just don't think Baxter fits into the system we will play and I don't think he is good enough to build a system round. The formation you suggest would not be strong enough physically in my opinion with that personel for this league. Its a small midfield and would need a stronger forward line.

 

[grafikhaus]

At the moment I'm hearing woeful pleas of 'If only we had 7 or 8 games left' or 'If only Clough had been manager from the beginning of the season'. Hitting the ground running is the mantra we're hearing about next season, and as Evans isn't expected to be with us until October at the earliest, what's planned to start the season at a gallop?

Quite, and I've always thought that playing crap like Alfreton, Greenock etc. in pre-season friendlies is hardly suitable preparation for the rigours of the season ahead. Try and arrange games against the likes of Blackpool, Yeovil etc.

 

[ZoneManWilf]

Ok fair point, I'll upgrade it to a "he's barley used it here", handful of times max.

Baxter was in that 4-4-2 that won at Villa too...

Indeed he was, and I think he'll end up playing there next year hopefully with a new striker. I also think we'll see the best of him if he has someone alongside him of quality.

Something like

Howard
Freeman/Brayford/new right back - Maguire - Collins - Harris
Murphy - Coady/Doyle/new midfielder - Scougall - Flynn
Baxter - new striker

With Baxter playing off the main striker.

My worries with this formation are:

• We need to find that striker
• If Doyle ends up playing in the central midfield 2 he will have responsibility for more than just the defensive side and his limitations going forward and being creative will be bourne out again,
• Conversely Scougall might be more exposed defensively with the increased responsibility of being in a midfield 2 - although I think he can do it.

 

[Deadbat]

I will write my views on the team and team building etc with my traditional end of season snore fest in a few weeks!

I am probably somewhere between the posts above about Baxter. I think he needs to get fitter, slimmer and show more effort at times but has ability. I can see if he does the things mentioned he could play as a second striker alongside someone with genuine pace/and or height/strength. Ideally both but unlikely. I don't seem him playing central midfield. He can do a job behind a striker or alongside I think with the right man but cant be the main striker (most advanced moving forward). I do feel he has talents and we forget his involvement in many of our better performances/goals. Often he was the man who 'did something' but I also have reservations about his effort and even attitude moving forward. He needs to up it to be a regular in a team going for promotion but even without that he is handy lad to have around as can pass, shoot and have a good touch.

 

[kop_blade9]

Is it just me who thinks Baxter is a waste of space?
He has a decent touch and a vision for passing but blink and you will miss it every match.
He goes missing for 90% of the game and I often feel like we are only playing with 10 men.
I studied his game for a couple of matches and in one match he failed to control 5 passes to him, got fouled 3 times and lost the ball, not always getting the free kick, and only completed 2 passes out of 6 to another team mate. To me this is not good enough. I agree, yes, at times he looks class and lays on some beautiful balls and creates goal scoring opportunities but it's going missing for big parts of the game that out weighs this for me.

 

[upton blade]

Yeah baxter could be lighter/fitter etc.. but he's got class at this level. .let's hope he puts the work in pre season .

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Is it just me who thinks Baxter is a waste of space?
He has a decent touch and a vision for passing but blink and you will miss it every match.
He goes missing for 90% of the game and I often feel like we are only playing with 10 men.
I studied his game for a couple of matches and in one match he failed to control 5 passes to him, got fouled 3 times and lost the ball, not always getting the free kick, and only completed 2 passes out of 6 to another team mate. To me this is not good enough. I agree, yes, at times he looks class and lays on some beautiful balls and creates goal scoring opportunities but it's going missing for big parts of the game that out weighs this for me.

You think a team playing with ten men could sustain the sort of run we did and reach a FA Cup semi playing teams from higher up the leagues?