It's time for some action.....

[judge]

If we're now saying we 'might' get into the championship then it's probably time we sold the Lane too because it's far too expensive to run for a L1 club. A nice new 20k seater in the east end, let KM do what he's always wanted to and build flats, offices and retail in the site.
Personally I still believe we WILL get back in the championship. Although it's probably just blind faith atm.

Yeah it is

 

[pommpey]

Personally I still believe we WILL get back in the championship. Although it's probably just blind faith atm.

Aaaand your working out for this is ...

If we keep saying it, it will happen, yeah?

pommpey

 

[BushBlade]

Aaaand your working out for this is ...

If we keep saying it, it will happen, yeah?

pommpey

Ok we won't. Let's all give up like you appear to have. I'll just spend the rest of my life on here spitting bile.

 

[Nick Jansky]

I don't agree. Fans making the board feel uncomfortable will have an impact eventually. it did with brearly and we were languishing halfway up the championship when those protests took place

Spot on. If there was the will and imagination amongst a group of supporters to organise and do the hard work that is necessary (together with accepting that you will get crucified by a large number of fans, not to mention the media), the board could be made to feel very comfortable indeed, to the point that they will want shut at all costs. It should be easier now than it was 20 years ago because of the internet.

 

[pommpey]

Ok we won't. Let's all give up like you appear to have. I'll just spend the rest of my life on here spitting bile.

Woah. I have an ambition to follow a successful Sheffield United as much as you have. The reality however is a totally different matter.

The discussion on here since the JTW shut and we capitulated to Wigan at home has been (thank fuck) based on who actually is at fault for our downward spiral. Faced with the obvious lack of talent out on the park and the litany of managers stood in the dugout at Bramall Lane, people are starting to realise what the consistent factor is throughout it all and starting to discuss what can be done with a man who owns pretty much everything the club has and is clearly set on not investing any further, regardless of the continual failings.

Faced with that stand-out fact, the answers seem to be 'nothing can be done' save for showing a concerted effort not to renew Season Tickets or stay away. It's this abject sense of disempowerment despite many supporters parting with several thousand pounds per season to plough cash intoa club that will not deliver the required end result which fosters such a response. None of us have 'given up'. McCabe seems to be making some sort of point and according to some, he is a 'Big Blade'. If he is he will either get working more investment into the playing staff or sell the club.

Which one do you reckon he will do, Bush?

pommpey

 

[BushBlade]

Woah. I have an ambition to follow a successful Sheffield United as much as you have. The reality however is a totally different matter.

The discussion on here since the JTW shut and we capitulated to Wigan at home has been (thank fuck) based on who actually is at fault for our downward spiral. Faced with the obvious lack of talent out on the park and the litany of managers stood in the dugout at Bramall Lane, people are starting to realise what the consistent factor is throughout it all and starting to discuss what can be done with a man who owns pretty much everything the club has and is clearly set on not investing any further, regardless of the continual failings.

Faced with that stand-out fact, the answers seem to be 'nothing can be done' save for showing a concerted effort not to renew Season Tickets or stay away. It's this abject sense of disempowerment despite many supporters parting with several thousand pounds per season to plough cash intoa club that will not deliver the required end result which fosters such a response. None of us have 'given up'. McCabe seems to be making some sort of point and according to some, he is a 'Big Blade'. If he is he will either get working more investment into the playing staff or sell the club.

Which one do you reckon he will do, Bush?

pommpey

I have absolutely no idea. I watch Villa with interest as they are in a similar situation; their owner can't recover his investment by selling the club so he seems to be gripped by inertia. He should have cut his losses years ago but he won't and it's almost as if he doesn't understand the implications of relegation.
At what point does an owner bite the bullet, grasp the nettle and various other cliches? Do you wait until you're so far in debt and still losing money that you just pull the plug and walk away, like Bolton's owner, who's done about £200m that he'll never see again.
Or do you walk when you realise you don't have the wherewithal to turn it round?

Unless we've been really lied to and the last tranche of investment didn't happen, it seems like money isn't the main problem. It's the idea that one manager can single handedly reverse the effects of ten years of piss poor appointments at managerial and board level in a few months that seems to be the issue. But, as I'm not party to how the club is run behind the scenes and I don't know how successful clubs are run behind the scenes and thus have no benchmark to really demonstrate what we're not doing well, my analysis may be flawed.

 

[Deleted member 875]

The bloke was famous world wide. Trust me when I say people DID want to meet him.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...yan-robson-at-the-double-in-1982-9215159.html

I had the dubious pleasure of meeting Bryan Robson whilst he was Sheffield United manager.

He was pissed out of his skull and incoherent.

 

[pommpey]

Accounts from 'behind the scenes' at that time relayed to me were much the same, and of him not in much of a state to take training in the morning. Like I say, these aren't accounts of S24SU, just accounts relayed to me from people who were part of the setup, if you get my drift.

A great appointment. Well done McCabe.

pommpey

 

[The Bohemian]

Re 6 - I don't follow. Listening to offers is not continuation is it? I think every player has a price, and it should be up for discussion. Some of the contracted players I'd let go for nothing , others (not many) I'd want to keep.

UTB

My point being, I don't recall a time when we didn't "listen to offers" for all our players.

 

[alcoblade]

My point being, I don't recall a time when we didn't "listen to offers" for all our players.

Well, this is where I'd side with United, in that I think that here we are the same as the rest of the footballing world. No better, no worse.

The difference being that I'd invite offers on just about every single player. I'm not quite sure how that works without listing them, but I'd imagine there's a "word on the street" thing that goes on.

UTB

 

[The Bohemian]

Well, this is where I'd side with United, in that I think that here we are the same as the rest of the footballing world. No better, no worse.

The difference being that I'd invite offers on just about every single player. I'm not quite sure how that works without listing them, but I'd imagine there's a "word on the street" thing that goes on.

UTB

Granted, everyone listens but others make better decisions over when to sell and when not to sell. The idea that every smaller club is duty bound to sell whenever a bigger club comes knocking is a myth. Some clubs - E.g. WBA with Berahino and Spurs; Southampton with Wanyama and Man U/Arsenal; Everton with Stones and Chelsea - know how to say "No!" Some make an assessment on whether selling a player is in their long term best interests and ensure they get above market value when they do sell, E.g. Newcastle, £35m for Andy Carroll; Southampton £60m combined for Shaw, Lallana and Lambert in 2014 close season. Maybe Mansfield are employing a similar approach with Ryan Tafazolli and The Blades?

Getting proper value - which we often don't (Jags £4m, Walker £3m, Maguire £2m) - softens the blow and provides the opportunity to rebuild, as Southampton proved in buying Pelle, Bertrand and Tadic.

Our approach seems consistently short-term and more preoccupied with the player's best interests than the club's, i.e. "if a player has stated his desire to leave it's in everyone's best interests to sell." Well selling Blackman, McDonald, Maguire and Murphy without adequately replacing any of them has not furthered our cause has it?

So, yes, most clubs will sell if the price is right, but the successful ones reinvest with the expectation of improving the team.

 

[alcoblade]

Granted, everyone listens but others make better decisions over when to sell and when not to sell. The idea that every smaller club is duty bound to sell whenever a bigger club comes knocking is a myth. Some clubs - E.g. WBA with Berahino and Spurs; Southampton with Wanyama and Man U/Arsenal; Everton with Stones and Chelsea - know how to say "No!" Some make an assessment on whether selling a player is in their long term best interests and ensure they get above market value when they do sell, E.g. Newcastle, £35m for Andy Carroll; Southampton £60m combined for Shaw, Lallana and Lambert in 2014 close season. Maybe Mansfield are employing a similar approach with Ryan Tafazolli and The Blades?

Getting proper value - which we often don't (Jags £4m, Walker £3m, Maguire £2m) - softens the blow and provides the opportunity to rebuild, as Southampton proved in buying Pelle, Bertrand and Tadic.

Our approach seems consistently short-term and more preoccupied with the player's best interests than the club's, i.e. "if a player has stated his desire to leave it's in everyone's best interests to sell." Well selling Blackman, McDonald, Maguire and Murphy without adequately replacing any of them has not furthered our cause has it?

So, yes, most clubs will sell if the price is right, but the successful ones reinvest with the expectation of improving the team.

The vast majority of examples you posted are from clubs with huge turnovers where playing hardball comes much easier.

I don't accept that, on average, we get poor value from sales either. Jags was a special case. Walker was more than £3m, and for every Maguire I'll raise you a Lee Morris.

None of this is to suggest that we don't make mistakes here, as I loudly protested when we sold Blackman.

But my point is that if we didn't keep trading a "Murphy" for a "Woolford" and instead got a "Morsey", we wouldn't spend our time lamenting player sales.

It's atrocious purchasing, for over a decade, that has led to this mess. IMHO.

UTB

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

The vast majority of examples you posted are from clubs with huge turnovers where playing hardball comes much easier.

I don't accept that, on average, we get poor value from sales either. Jags was a special case. Walker was more than £3m, and for every Maguire I'll raise you a Lee Morris.

None of this is to suggest that we don't make mistakes here, as I loudly protested when we sold Blackman.

But my point is that if we didn't keep trading a "Murphy" for a "Woolford" and instead got a "Morsey", we wouldn't spend our time lamenting player sales.

It's atrocious purchasing, for over a decade, that has led to this mess. IMHO.

UTB

We need a purchasing manager then?

 

[alcoblade]

We need a purchasing manager then?

I remember reading a part of "soccernomics" or something on here. It was an excellent blueprint for transfer dealings. Sadly, I think someone at the club got hold of the negative and implemented that instead.

I'm sure it doesn't take a highly paid role to avoid the mistakes we keep repeating though.



UTB

 

[super_pig]

it's probably time we sold the Lane too because it's far too expensive to run for a L1 club. A nice new 20k seater in the east end, let KM do what he's always wanted to and build flats, offices and retail in the site.

that's the endgame.. i just had a eureka moment

 

[The Bohemian]

The vast majority of examples you posted are from clubs with huge turnovers where playing hardball comes much easier.

I don't accept that, on average, we get poor value from sales either. Jags was a special case. Walker was more than £3m, and for every Maguire I'll raise you a Lee Morris.

None of this is to suggest that we don't make mistakes here, as I loudly protested when we sold Blackman.

But my point is that if we didn't keep trading a "Murphy" for a "Woolford" and instead got a "Morsey", we wouldn't spend our time lamenting player sales.

It's atrocious purchasing, for over a decade, that has led to this mess. IMHO.

UTB

If we got the selling right, I.e abandoned the mantra of selling our best players, under value with appalling timing, the purchasing would be easier.

Jags: he'd earned the right to stay in the Prem but £4m always seemed and has subsequently proved a gross under valuation.

Walker: whether it was £3m or £4m is a moot point - selling both Kyles was, I believe, again, short-sighted. Naughton had the greater value at the time and was a justified sale at £5-£6m whereas Walker, with his pace and strength had the greater potential and long term value.

Maguire: how do you replace him for £2m? Well we know the answer to that one.

Murphy: as above and just plain stupid. Not sure I see Morsy as a left winger but I see your point.

Blackman: it's just too painful to contemplate!

 

[Deleted member 875]

Where did the Walker/Naughton/Lowton/Blackman/Maguire/Murphy go?

 

[alcoblade]

Where did the Walker/Naughton/Lowton/Blackman/Maguire/Murphy go?

Check the accounts. On god awful spending. Poor players on too high salaries, ever since Robson.

There's a harsh reality, whatever anyone thinks about sales and purchases, that far more money goes out of the business than comes into it.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

If we got the selling right, I.e abandoned the mantra of selling our best players, under value with appalling timing, the purchasing would be easier.

Jags: he'd earned the right to stay in the Prem but £4m always seemed and has subsequently proved a gross under valuation.

Walker: whether it was £3m or £4m is a moot point - selling both Kyles was, I believe, again, short-sighted. Naughton had the greater value at the time and was a justified sale at £5-£6m whereas Walker, with his pace and strength had the greater potential and long term value.

Maguire: how do you replace him for £2m? Well we know the answer to that one.

Murphy: as above and just plain stupid. Not sure I see Morsy as a left winger but I see your point.

Blackman: it's just too painful to contemplate!

£4m for Jags was the get out clause insisted on by his agent. We could have easily lost him for nothing a year later.

My long standing point is that it's easily for others to decide how much of someone else's money they should be prepared to lose. I've never wanted to enter that debate, and the idea that every club would be in clover long term if they just kept spending more than they had, short term, doesn't hold water.

So, what's not debatable is that if you're going to spend millions a year on purchasing, even if it's less than you took sales, you should get the purchasing right. We can all agree that we keep fucking that part up.

UTB

 

[Revolution]

£4m for Jags was the get out clause insisted on by his agent. We could have easily lost him for nothing a year later.

My long standing point is that it's easily for others to decide how much of someone else's money they should be prepared to lose. I've never wanted to enter that debate, and the idea that every club would be in clover long term if they just kept spending more than they had, short term, doesn't hold water.

So, what's not debatable is that if you're going to spend millions a year on purchasing, even if it's less than you took sales, you should get the purchasing right. We can all agree that we keep fucking that part up.

UTB

This is of course our major point of disagreement. I think you divorce the sales and purchasing processes when they are inextricably linked.

Never sell until you know who you are going to replace the sold player with, and if you can't get someone as good, or nearly as good, don't sell. There are variables (considerations change in the last year of contracts) but some of our recent deals, notably Blackman and Murphy, broke these rules and have hurt us.

 

[alcoblade]

This is of course our major point of disagreement. I think you divorce the sales and purchasing processes when they are inextricably linked.

Never sell until you know who you are going to replace the sold player with, and if you can't get someone as good, or nearly as good, don't sell. There are variables (considerations change in the last year of contracts) but some of our recent deals, notably Blackman and Murphy, broke these rules and have hurt us.

It's not really a point of disagreement. I've accepted we get it wrong. I was ridiculed by some for my reaction to the Blackmsn sale, for example.

I just don't accept that we are, significantly, an exception to the norm here. I'm arguing that that where we stand out from the crowd is our inability to spend what we spend wisely.

If we even remotely got it right, there'd be hardly any focus on player sales.

UTB

 

[Revolution]

It's not really a point of disagreement. I've accepted we get it wrong. I was ridiculed by some if my reaction to the Blackmsn sale.

I just don accept that we are, significantly, an exception to the norm here. I'm arguing that that where we stand out from the crowd is our inability to spend what we spend wisely.

UTB

Fwiw you're bang on the money about spending. I just think (as you know) you give them too easy a ride on sales.

Mind you, I have a bigger fear at the moment. The feeling that no one who makes decisions at the club actually cares. They are punting the season - that is clear - but I fear the problems run deeper than that.

 

[pommpey]

But my point is that if we didn't keep trading a "Murphy" for a "Woolford" and instead got a "Morsey", we wouldn't spend our time lamenting player sales.

Is the truth.

What is needed (IT geniuses anyone?) is a season-by season spreadsheet or graph, years at the top (2007-08, 2008-09, etc) and positions at the side (GK, LB, CB, RB etc) and the players in the club for that season on loan or permanent signings in the corresponding boxes. Then you will be able to gauge who is in season-by-season and who the supposed 'replacement' was when he left. I wouldn't know where to look for the info. Silent? Darren?

That will tell more about the decline.

pommpey

 

[alcoblade]

Is the truth.

What is needed (IT geniuses anyone?) is a season-by season spreadsheet or graph, years at the top (2007-08, 2008-09, etc) and positions at the side (GK, LB, CB, RB etc) and the players in the club for that season on loan or permanent signings in the corresponding boxes. Then you will be able to gauge who is in season-by-season and who the supposed 'replacement' was when he left. I wouldn't know where to look for the info. Silent? Darren?

That will tell more about the decline.

pommpey

It started the season we brought in Gary Naysmith (rumour has it his wages alone were nearly £1,500,000 a season), Lee Hendry and Gary Speed. All well past their sell by date, (in fact poor), all on enormous wages, all with zero prospect of any resale value or growth. Those deals probably cost the club well in excess of £10, 000,000 in total. It borders on criminal, yet history will talk about the subsequent sale of Beattie.

We've rolled on with the same mistakes, until eventually it becoming the norm. When we offloaded Beattie's £40,000 per week, we took on Cresswell's £20,000 per week (Richard fucking Cresswell!). The crowd opinion was that is that it was the club penny pinching. The reality is it was continued reckless spending that was going to catch up with us.

So now we enter our worst period in history and we are struggling financially. The crowd will continue to argue we don't spend enough, but I remain convinced it's poor recruitment that really fucks us over. And there's still no sign of that penny dropping.

UTB

 

[pommpey]

It started the season we brought in Gary Naysmith. Rumour has it his wages alone were nearly £1,500,000 a season), Lee handy and Gary Speed. All well past their sell by date, (in fact poor), all on enormous wages, all with zero prospect of any resale value or growth. Those deals probably cost the club well in excess of £10, 000,000 in total. It borders on criminal, yet history will talk about the subsequent sale of Beattie.

We've rolled on with the same mistakes, silt wGes becoming the norm. When we offloaded Beatties £40,000 per week, we took on Cresswell's £20,000 per week. The crowd opinion of that is that it was the club penny pinching. The reality is it was continued reckless spending that was going to catch up with us.

So now we enter our worst period in history and we are struggling financially. The crowd will continue to argue we don't spend enough, but I remain convinced it's poor recruitment that really fucks us over. And there's still no sign of that penny dropping.

UTB

And that is exactly what happened with Pompey. Signings well beyond their income, a wishful thinking approach to moving to a 35k out of town stadium and PL status forevermore. That is how Redknapp rolled and when it failed to materialise, instead of waiting to be sacked, he basically pissed off and challenged the club to sue him for breach of contract if they dared, given what was promised.

Milandric was totally upfront with what he wanted with Pompey and it would have worked. Big stadium full of fans, big money coming in, PL manager and players. Pompey Council popped his balloon and it all went shitola.

pommpey

 

[BushBlade]

And that is exactly what happened with Pompey. Signings well beyond their income, a wishful thinking approach to moving to a 35k out of town stadium and PL status forevermore. That is how Redknapp rolled and when it failed to materialise, instead of waiting to be sacked, he basically pissed off and challenged the club to sue him for breach of contract if they dared, given what was promised.

Milandric was totally upfront with what he wanted with Pompey and it would have worked. Big stadium full of fans, big money coming in, PL manager and players. Pompey Council popped his balloon and it all went shitola.

pommpey

Where it went very wrong was after the club had been bought by Gaydamack (sp) who continued to fund huge losses until his family was involved in some dodgy Eastern European banking scandal.
Then, someone else (Chandiri?) took over and did the same.

 

[Rodders]

Where it went very wrong was after the club had been bought by Gaydamack (sp) who continued to fund huge losses until his family was involved in some dodgy Eastern European banking scandal.
Then, someone else (Chandiri?) took over and did the same.

They were also taken over by a bloke who didn't exist. Some top, top governance there by the PL.

 

[BushBlade]

They were also taken over by a bloke who didn't exist. Some top, top governance there by the PL.

Was he a prince?

 

[Whiston Blade]

Was he a prince?

Fresh Prince of Bel-Air

 

[pommpey]

Where it went very wrong was after the club had been bought by Gaydamack (sp) who continued to fund huge losses until his family was involved in some dodgy Eastern European banking scandal.
Then, someone else (Chandiri?) took over and did the same.

Kinda. Once Milandric lost Redknapp and the club lost momentum, Milandrich switched off the cash taps as we was effectively bankrolling big wage earners on the premise they'd build and fill a 35k stadium every other Saturday and the whole of Pompey would be bedecked in blue club shirts, with Sky money pouring in. Once he switched off the cash, then you could see the festering rot where before there was clean muscle. He bailed, sold his lot to Gaydemak who thought he could just bulldoze Fratton and build houses and shops and the stadium would go where he said it would go (even down next to HMS Warrior opposite Gunwharf Quays, the daft cunt) and failed abysmally. Chanderi followed, Gaydemak owned the ground and the land and Pompey faced massive past debt problems following them round from the Milandric days. The players bailed in droves and they ended up relegated (not before they whupped our arses at FP, mind)

pommpey