Jim Phipps on Facebook

[Sean Thornton]

I wouldn't question the investment figure, I am more interested in how the investment has been spent and has it been spent wisely to the benefit of the football team. The product on the pitch is what matters to the majority of supporters.

You and others have said often that it hasn't been. Not on players as we can see.
My point was that Jins flowery words tend to make people think £20 million or whatever has gone on thecteam.

 

[derryblade]

You and others have said often that it hasn't been. Not on players as we can see.
My point was that Jins flowery words tend to make people think £20 million or whatever has gone on thecteam.

I for one, probably completely misunderstood the purpose of this partnership, wrongly thought the HRH investment would be for the benefit of the football team, players. Not to pay debts, new pitch and upgrading the academy, but it did seem a strange arrangement and still does, as it doesn't seem to work.

 

[PeteBlade]

But by definition Pete your not going to get anyone better, unless you use all the money and some, to buy one. If other teams want our players it's generally because they are better than what they've got. If we want to replace Murphy with someone better than him, then we use all of the fee and more.

I understand that more than likely we won't replace like for like but we always seem to waste the cash and never seem to have replacements lined up.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Money being spent at the Lane...

 

[TONY_TONY_AGANA]

How can he say that the fans need to 'step it up'? 19K plus week in, week out to watch this shit

 

[Jonboy60]

I for one, probably completely misunderstood the purpose of this partnership, wrongly thought the HRH investment would be for the benefit of the football team, players. Not to pay debts, new pitch and upgrading the academy, but it did seem a strange arrangement and still does, as it doesn't seem to work.

Me too Derry, McCabe carries on as he was, and the prince gives monies for players, nothing else, nothing less. Is all the money spent, quoted by jim Phipps being laid out by the prince, what is McCabe spending.

 

[Grecian2000]

Would you buy a used car from this man?

How can he say that the fans need to 'step it up'? 19K plus week in, week out to watch this shit

Apparently 18,997 of them have got some sort of personality disorder so it doesn't count.

 

[Jonboy60]

I understand that more than likely we won't replace like for like but we always seem to waste the cash and never seem to have replacements lined up.

I agree with that, rather than buy established players that can do a job, we tend buy based on a punt, hoping it all comes good. I know there exceptions,ie brayford and to an extent sharp, but the rest just seem like a punt. Imo.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I for one, probably completely misunderstood the purpose of this partnership, wrongly thought the HRH investment would be for the benefit of the football team, players. Not to pay debts, new pitch and upgrading the academy, but it did seem a strange arrangement and still does, as it doesn't seem to work.

It hasn't been used to pay debts it's been used, as well as on the playing side, to cover trading losses. There's a difference but debt is more emotive It may well not have been the original plan but it's a reasonable assumption that promotion was expected and losses would be stemmed. Sadly we ended up with a lunatic in charge of the asylum and he liked to buy crocks every now and then. Those at the top believed in him as did plenty of those now blessed with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[Barney]

The recent message from Phipps is a remarkable communication on social media which is the most effective way to reach fans. By taking the time in his busy schedule to communicate with fans on a weekly basis the man is demonstrating his commitment to the club and is placing fans right up there in his priorities.

In this landmark communication he has spelled out the Prince's investment to date and through to the end of January ( more to come). He has advised us why Clough was sacked and it turns out our ex-manager was riding roughshod over the recruitment systems established by his employer and seemingly refused to change during the summer.

Over the years certain United fans have feasted on lack of knowledge and facts and there has been so much hot air and conjecture and in some cases deliberate nonsense spouted. I believe there are a few Wednesdayites infiltrating this and other forums just to damage morale and fulfill a role they have assumed as the best way they can serve their club and this is something that cannot be eradicated. Each poster has to be judged and treated on merit and mentally put in place by each member of the forum; some things they say are so outrageous and destructive, they cannot possibly be Unitedites.

Then there are those type of people who are genuine Unitedites but have that sort of personality which always looks for impending disaster, conspiracies, the end of the world and all that. They are sincere but they have personality disorders in everything they are involved in, be it family, work, pub, club and so on.

The many contributions from the above two groups drip, drip, drip and over time influence the opinions and morale of other types of supporters. When things are not going well they assume more credibility and other groups who take defeats and adversity not so well then join in the negativity.

What Phipps is attempting to do is to put all the facts out there to reduce the frustrations and help all fans to see exactly what the Board are doing and investing ( big money). He is even prepared to make public the reason Clough was sacked and Phipps' own opinion of why he failed to assemble a quality squad. He has gone on to applaud the efforts of Adkins to date and to explain why the squad cannot be reshaped immediately and why expected results and the pruning of the squad have been hampered by the severe injury list.

The reason he is making all this effort is in the hope that everyone will be singing from the same songsheet with knowledge of what's going on and where all the efforts are channelled to achieve success.

There is some criticism that his language is disrespectful to the league and to Clough. Isn't he simply trying to communicate in a language his audience will understand and respond to. A mistake?- probably.

Good on'yer Jim and thanks so much for treating us supporters with respect and attaching such importance to us. I have worried about your Facebook communications and disagreed with them because of those two categories of fans mentioned above and because they will give you hell. The Wednesdayites will try to discourage you and hope to drive you out of town, no question. How do you differentiate between genuine fans, those with personality disorder and Wednesdayites? I think the way genuine fans can help re-address the balance is to join Facebook and communicate their rational views to him and encourage him. I'm joining Facebbok today.

Couldn't disagree more. It's all hot air.

What puts you into a position to limit genuine fans to only those with nothing negative to say?

He identified why we are where we are in his Facebook post, so why not do anything about it? If the Prince has invested so much, why not go the whole hog and pay off the many players hampering our success? If he knows the problems to the extent of which he portrays, then he'll know that promotion this season is very unlikely too, yet he seems intent on increasing false hope amongst the fans. He's throwing blame at all but himself without actually doing what we could have to change it as best as he could have.

As a highly influential and significant individual, being on Facebook was always a dangerous game. So far he's tying himself up in all sorts of knots, whilst at the same time achieving the square root of fuck all in terms of where the club is at. He needs to quit Facebook and cut his losses before he makes it any worse with his next ingenious contribution.

 

[MobileBlade]

If the Prince has invested so much, why not go the whole hog and pay off the many players hampering our success? .

How much do you think that would cost?

For the sake of repeating myself yet again, FFP will not allow you to do it.

 

[Sean Thornton]

How much do you think that would cost?

For the sake of repeating myself yet again, FFP will not allow you to do it.

He can do it if he chucks more money into shares. Repayable loans do not qualify for FFP purposes.

 

[MobileBlade]

He can do it if he chucks more money into shares. Repayable loans do not qualify for FFP purposes.

But you still have the 60% issue to overcome. There are only so many desso pitches you can install

 

[Woodwardfan]

It hasn't been used to pay debts it's been used, as well as on the playing side, to cover trading losses. There's a difference but debt is more emotive It may well not have been the original plan but it's a reasonable assumption that promotion was expected and losses would be stemmed. Sadly we ended up with a lunatic in charge of the asylum and he liked to buy crocks every now and then. Those at the top believed in him as did plenty of those now blessed with the benefit of hindsight.

Well said.

I wanted to believe in him and called him Mr. Sheffield United, he had an almost perfect first 12 months. I continued to believe until exactly this time last season when I realised just how limited most of his signings were. By then the damage had been done and the Board still backed him to the tune of over £2m in transfer fees and high wages for a total of 5 new signings last January. Between summer 2014 and January 2015 all the damage was done and it appears Clough was in sole control because, as Sean says, the Board etc believed in him. Clough was a daunting and probably controlling man and I often said that he had been given the "keys to the castle" with unprecedented power and authority. The Board and most others still thought it would work until very late season.

We are moving into November again and it has to be said that Adkins' signings have hardly inspired us. However I do think we are fishing in different ponds and going for quality additions rather than quantity, for this campaign rather than next. I do not criticise Clough for signing long term prospects because I think he was planning for the long haul, but he just did not sign enough players good enough for the there and then, unknowns with limited pedigrees in narrow geographical areas. I think Adkins' signings will pay off before long and the pressure will abate somewhat. Hammond has to make his mark quickly and the team has to settle around him. Fingers crossed. We really cannot afford another failed manager, I believe the fans are at breaking point.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I took FD to be Finance Director, probably need the money man in there to see if we can afford the Transfer Fee, Wages and Agents Fees

When money was raised, Cloughy used to send FD out the room for Hobnobs, which is why he was told to FO

I believe J Tutton is the FD of Blades Leisure although there is also a Jordanian accountant on the board. Highly unlikely that Jim does that job.

One looking after McCabes money, one the Prince?

 

[MobileBlade]

He can do it if he chucks more money into shares. Repayable loans do not qualify for FFP purposes.

I think this is probably a good explanation as to how it works. From earlier this year and to do with Coventry but does the job:

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/financial-fair-play-league-one-8560150

 

[Grecian2000]

Between summer 2014 and January 2015 all the damage was done and it appears Clough was in sole control

The first part of the sentence is spot on, the second I have serious doubts about.

At the end of the previous season, on the back of 4 months of incredible results (and a fair few really good performances) we were in a position where the keeping of that team would surely be enough to get us promoted (in my eyes it was anyway).
However, that would mean retaining Harry and making Brayford and Coady "permanent". We were unable to do this and if this is the key how was that all Clough's fault (I'm not saying it wasn't but I haven't seen any evidence it was). Throw in the Evans factor which may (or may not) have stopped us getting the forward power we were lacking because we thought he might come back and save us a bob or two.
I think we lost all momentum in the period you say and January was too late (NOT too little though) to put it right.

 

[Sean Thornton]

But you still have the 60% issue to overcome. There are only so many desso pitches you can install

If we were attracting 32000 every week we would still have the 60% issue. The point is - and it's his money - he CAN put more money in and it will qualify as turnover under FFP. I'm not saying he should, that's his decision, just stating a fact.

 

[Darthblade]

Darth do you seriously believe the manager and his " Technical Committe" do not have a grasp of the benefits of signing better loan players on less wages and shipping out the lesser players on higher wages? Do you seriously believe they would not have done it already if it had been possible?

That dilemna is mentioned in Phipps' communication if you read it closely and that's why he's so angry about the "off committee" signings Clough did while he enjoyed carte blanche authority and chose to circumvent the committe and piled up loads of underperforming or injured players on contracts which cannot be ignored and whom no other clubs want.

Paying off contracts is also seriously expensive but because of injuries cannot be contemplated for a while.

I really don't know what NA and the "Technical Committee" have a grasp of, but what I do know is that we're marking time and slowly slipping away from the "target" of the automatic places and the business that HAS been done so far is quite mixed and nowhere near enough ( in terms of addressing our long-standing, glaringly obvious deficiencies ).

I fully take on board the issues of "culling the dross" and that this isn't easy, but equally it is crucial to this Clubs progress that ways are found of doing it. If we can get somebody to take the Higgopotamus on loan, then we can do the same with others. It may take some hard work, but that's what big Jim & super Mal get paid for.
UTB & FTP

 

[MobileBlade]

If we were attracting 32000 every week we would still have the 60% issue. The point is - and it's his money - he CAN put more money in and it will qualify as turnover under FFP. I'm not saying he should, that's his decision, just stating a fact.

But once he puts it in, you can only spend 60% of it on wages. Yes the rest can go on transfer fees, building new changing rooms etc So the post was why don't we pay off the dross - I shudder to think the cost of paying off around 11-15 players with the 60% rule.

 

[Barney]

How much do you think that would cost?

For the sake of repeating myself yet again, FFP will not allow you to do it.

Of course you can do it. The 60% comes into play after the cash investment has been added to the turnover figures.

 

[MobileBlade]

I really don't know what NA and the "Technical Committee" have a grasp of, but what I do know is that we're marking time and slowly slipping away from the "target" of the automatic places and the business that HAS been done so far is quite mixed and nowhere near enough ( in terms of addressing our long-standing, glaringly obvious deficiencies ).

I fully take on board the issues of "culling the dross" and that this isn't easy, but equally it is crucial to this Clubs progress that ways are found of doing it. If we can get somebody to take the Higgopotamus on loan, then we can do the same with others. It may take some hard work, but that's what big Jim & super Mal get paid for.
UTB & FTP

In reality, though, we can only add three more players until January. Which three would be the best positions and who would that player be?

 

[derryblade]

It hasn't been used to pay debts it's been used, as well as on the playing side, to cover trading losses. There's a difference but debt is more emotive It may well not have been the original plan but it's a reasonable assumption that promotion was expected and losses would be stemmed. Sadly we ended up with a lunatic in charge of the asylum and he liked to buy crocks every now and then. Those at the top believed in him as did plenty of those now blessed with the benefit of hindsight.

Debts or trading losses, it wasn't what I and many other supporters thought was the plan when the partnership was created.

 

[MobileBlade]

Of course you can do it. The 60% comes into play after the cash investment has been added to the turnover figures.

So he gives a million, we can only pay £600K. How much do you think it would cost to pay off 15 players, which you appear to be advocating That is what I mean.

 

[MobileBlade]

Debts or trading losses, it wasn't what I and many other supporters thought was the plan when the partnership was created.

If you do the maths, you will see our Football wage bill is somewhere in the region of £7m. Our revenue before the Prince's money will be somewhere around that same figure. Whichever way you look at it, he is supporting the playing side.

 

[Darthblade]

In reality, though, we can only add three more players until January. Which three would be the best positions and who would that player be?

The "who" is what NA gets paid the big bucks for but the spine of the team is what we should build from so I would suggest ( assuming Edgar comes back better when he's fit shortly ) GK, CH & either CM or CF
UTB & FTP

 

[Barney]

So he gives a million, we can only pay £600K. How much do you think it would cost to pay off 15 players, which you appear to be advocating That is what I mean.

But what I'm getting at is if the Prince is injecting all this investment, with a large % just to cover losses why not go the whole way and at least get something out of it. If he knew he was to invest £25m and be in our position now for example, the 60% issue in terms of what could have been this seasons investment really wouldn't have looked that much of a lost cause.

 

[Woodwardfan]

The first part of the sentence is spot on, the second I have serious doubts about.

At the end of the previous season, on the back of 4 months of incredible results (and a fair few really good performances) we were in a position where the keeping of that team would surely be enough to get us promoted (in my eyes it was anyway).
However, that would mean retaining Harry and making Brayford and Coady "permanent". We were unable to do this and if this is the key how was that all Clough's fault (I'm not saying it wasn't but I haven't seen any evidence it was). Throw in the Evans factor which may (or may not) have stopped us getting the forward power we were lacking because we thought he might come back and save us a bob or two.
I think we lost all momentum in the period you say and January was too late (NOT too little though) to put it right.

Good points Grecian.

It's my belief that Clough got the budget he wanted and spent it all in the summer 2014 but by November the Board had approved an extra budget ( I recall Phipps intimating in November that they had just agreed all the manager's new plans for the JTW on R.S. ).

This is my version at the time. I am not ITK other than as a shareholder and I try to study everything that derives from the club, nothing more. I do recall Clough being tetchy after a couple of bad results about Harry leaving but I didn't think that was directed at the Board so much as the trials of being in League 1 ( Harry did quadruple his wages). That summer he signed Butler, McEveley and Alcock for defence with Basham for midfield/defence.

The owners have not taken any cash out so I cannot imagine for one minute that Clough was not given the tools for the job, particularly with the opportunity he had to turn over so many of the squad in summer 2014.

I guess Adkins has less to spend/ areas to manouvre considering the size of the squad but that is speculation.

 

[derryblade]

If you do the maths, you will see our Football wage bill is somewhere in the region of £7m. Our revenue before the Prince's money will be somewhere around that same figure. Whichever way you look at it, he is supporting the playing side.

I am well chuffed these guys are not in charge of my personal finances.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Debts or trading losses, it wasn't what I and many other supporters thought was the plan when the partnership was created.

So you expected the club to run at a profit in League 1?

Okay.