Jim Phipps on Facebook

[Tezza1889]

I'm not with you mate. Surely Jim is saying we've spent the Maguire money, the cup money and the £13m the Prince has invested?

Who on?

I don't see around 16million pounds worth of footballers out there..

 

[Bladepicker]

I have never, ever said anything different. The current team - which as I said started with 9 players from the end of last season - is in the play offs. Last season we finished in the play-offs. It shows that this team is not good enough to make the push to the next level. Sadly, at the end of October, we cannot change that overnight. As Darthblade blade mentions, we need at least 6 players but the fact of life is that is not going to happen without moving people out. These players are not going to be moved on to other teams in our division without us supporting some of their wages which in turns gives us less to play with when purchasing. As Jim alluded to in his message, correcting the errors of last season will be timely but one which they are up for. Unfortunately, the FIFA16 brigade don't necessarily understand the realities.

Again, no need for the patronising line at the end there.

While it can't be changed in October, the board have had several opportunities over last summer and this summer to make statements of intent and investment that could have solved the problems.

In my opinion selling your best (or at least one of the best) players every year is not going to improve the team. Unless they are replaced with players of better quality. That has blatently not happened.

I want to be proved wrong but we keep repeating actions over and over and getting nowhere fast. I hope that we do stick with Adkins, allow him to clear out the rubbish which will allow him to replace with them with his own players while not selling our better youngsters and first teamers.

However, and it may be my personality disorder taking over here, I tend to judge people on their previous actions, which in this case means I am overly cynical to say the least. Let's see how it pans out - but please stop the Fifa 16 holier than though rhetoric, it is ridiculous.

 

[MobileBlade]

For once, a sensible post. You are taken out of the FIFA16 brigade (so long as you don't mention we have been in this division five years ever again when you will be quickly reinstated)

 

[alcoblade]

Who on?

I don't see around 16million pounds worth of footballers out there..

I don't really doubt that the money goes in, I question where it goes out to (have I mentioned the academy? ).

Our costs are too high. If Jim wants to really explain the finances, he should start by explaining that part - and the club should surely be questioning it.

UTB

 

[Bladepicker]

For once, a sensible post. You are taken out of the FIFA16 brigade (so long as you don't mention we have been in this division five years ever again when you will be quickly reinstated)

Always been a PES man me Mobbi

 

[BushBlade]

Who on?

I don't see around 16million pounds worth of footballers out there..

Nor do I. But that's what Jim says. I'm not going to publicly dispute that because I know several accountants will be all over it and I don't follow football to spend my time arguing about accounts, finances, stats and graphs.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Can somebody cleverer than me explain this, all I hear from this board at present is the 13.5million they've invested since they came in, jams shield quotes this in a piece about Phipps Facebook address, so..

6.75 mill each since the prince came in, take away macdonald and maguire, and now Murphy transfer fees, although undisclosed we could think about 6million, meaning that they've both spent around three million each over two and a half seasons, 500.000 on managers possibly..

1 mill a season, and we wonder why we still have Collins in the back four..

I'm not big on the money side, but we haven't thrown the sink at it like the pigs have, pigs have paid high wages to get the best frees and loans with a marquee signing as well, we'll be spouting the same excuses in January when Adams gets sold, the most predictable transfer for years, and will this be where the next significant investment comes from, makes me wonder... Has anything really changed except we have a manager we like...?

Ps please correct me on the numbers if I am wide of the mark, just, it's not a lot of money for somebody who said they were serious about getting to the premier league is it...

The Prince was contracted to pay £10 million for his shares. At July 2014 the accounts state he had paid £8 million of that. The 2015 accounts will show if he's paid the rest and Jim says he has. The FC lost £4.45 million in 2014 and similar expected in 2015. So that's most of the ten million gone on covering losses.
Transfer and cup monies are generated by the club. It's not investment just smoke and mirrors from Jim. What he is saying is they haven't taken it out, which they shouldn't seeing as we are losing money. Jim says there is further investment since 2014 over and above the ten million. The 2015 accounts only go to June and are usually out in December, so for anything after that we'll have to wait for another 14 months or so to see what the audited accounts show.

 

[Pedro Verde]

We can only spend 60% of our income on wages - so for every 1,000 we add to the attendance (and, which will bring in around £12,000 per game) we can only spend 60% of that - so each 1,000 on the attendance equates to around £3000 per week for a player. When we have a squad of circa 26 players who would come under FFP, it soon adds up. So for that £13 million, we can only spend around £7 million on wages not the full £13 million like they could across the other dark side.

If the Prince wanted too he could inject as much cash as he wanted into the club and as long as its not a loan that would count as turnover in regard to the FPP rukes

 

[Sean Thornton]

Who on?

I don't see around 16million pounds worth of footballers out there..

No one has said there is. Jim certainly hasn't suggested that at all.

 

[bricktop]

The Prince was contracted to pay £10 million for his shares. At July 2014 the accounts state he had paid £8 million of that. The 2015 accounts will show if he's paid the rest and Jim says he has. The FC lost £4.45 million in 2014 and similar expected in 2015. So that's most of the ten million gone on covering losses.
Transfer and cup monies are generated by the club. It's not investment just smoke and mirrors from Jim. What he is saying is they haven't taken it out, which they shouldn't seeing as we are losing money. Jim says there is further investment since 2014 over and above the ten million. The 2015 accounts only go to June and are usually out in December, so for anything after that we'll have to wait for another 14 months or so to see what the audited accounts show.

So where has the £10m gone?

 

[Sean Thornton]

So where has the £10m gone?

The second ten million?

 

[derryblade]

One thing is nailed on JP twitter statement will resurface as the season progresses. It will be interesting to see how opinions change on JP. Lots of fun to come.

 

[Sean Thornton]

One thing is nailed on JP twitter statement will resurface as the season progresses. It will be interesting to see how opinions change on JP. Lots of fun to come.

I think him bigging up the investment/ reinvestment to over £21+ million will come back to bite him when it's realised that £8 million or so of that figure appears to be from income generated by the club rather than cash input.

He says quite clearly that HRH has put in around £13 million cash which has enabled the club to generate the balance which is not additional investment however anyone wants to look at it.

There has been a recent share allotment btw, which may be related to the three million Jim speaks of. im sure someone can look on Twitter to find out what that means and put their own spin on it so it's not worth explaining.

 

[Darthblade]

I don't think it's that's likely we can loan players unless they are from PL or championship clubs.

I agree there are players in the lower leagues who would be good enough and probably more motivated than upper league journeymen but I think we'd have to pay for them. No club in L1 would loan a player to a rival, if it's a player of the quality we need. They'd be better off selling them to a championship club.

Fair point but they may not be able to sell said players to a Championship Club and a CC may not want them.

Also .... remember, if another Club comes in for one of your players and the player wants to move you have no choice but to do the deal .... we've been told that by our Board so it must be true ...
UTB & FTP

 

[Woodwardfan]

Now steady on ...... you've not read the fine detail of the master plan that I've kindly supplied to MobileBlade.
I did say ....

" None of the above NEED to be bought, could be loaned ....
None of the above NEED to be premiership / Championship players which cost huge fees and demand huge wages ....
They simply NEED to be above average, CONSISTENT players ( at this level ) "

I don't think you need to worry about the consequences of us going up this season ..... that's not realistically going to happen.
UTB & FTP

Loan players cost money on top of the inflated wage bill we already have.

Oh, and we will go up, we've got a good manager and a good squad which will settle and gel before long.

 

[bricktop]

Loan players cost money on top of the inflated wage bill we already have.

Oh, and we will go up, we've got a good manager and a good squad which will settle and gel before long.

What is it like in cloud cuckoo land?

 

[Woodwardfan]

I've communicated my views on Facebook to Jim Phipps but they have been largely ignored. I've done it without being aggressive or abusive, but obviously they been deemed not worthy of a response to.

I'm sick and tired of mentioning it but we have been in this godforsaken division for 5 seasons now, and it looks odds on that we will still be here next season, and probably the season after, for a few more seasons to come.

I want a credible explanation from someone, somewhere why we are, have been so spectacularly failing for so many years. There has got to be some credible explanation and someone has got to accept some modicum of responsibility.

It is not having some sort of personality disorder, or being a Wednesdayite, but it is being a lifelong supporter , season ticket holder for more years than I care to remember, caring about the club, and not being happy about watching the club I have supported floundering aimlessly in a Division that we should not be in.

But Jim Phipps has only been with us for just over 2 years and he's running the show now. He's not accountable for the last 5 years.

 

[bricktop]

But Jim Phipps has only been with us for just over 2 years and he's running the show now. He's not accountable for the last 5 years.

So instead of holding Jim accountable for the last 5 years, we can shower him with praise for the wildly successful last 2 seasons, and the quite remarkable progress we have made during that time?

 

[Darthblade]

Slight problem with this strategy, we already have 2 loaners (Hammond and Edgar) plus your 6 makes it a total of 8 on loan and you can only field 5.

Good point ...... I have considered this, but Hammond & Edgar still have a bit to do to prove they're worthy of being retained and it may be that a mixture of loans / purchases are required. If, for instance, when he's back from injury, Egdar steps up and demonstrates " he's the man" then we only need 1 x CH.

This "culling" process will also sort the wheat from the ( considerable ) chaff and will motivate some of our underperforming pansies to "man up" and decide that they can step up to the plate and be worthy of wearing the red & white shirt.
UTB & FTP

 

[PeteBlade]

Loan players cost money on top of the inflated wage bill we already have.

Oh, and we will go up, we've got a good manager and a good squad which will settle and gel before long.

You said exactly the same thing last year and ridiculed those who said otherwise.

 

[Darthblade]

For once, a sensible post. You are taken out of the FIFA16 brigade (so long as you don't mention we have been in this division five years ever again when you will be quickly reinstated)

Am I allowed though to allude to the fact that we're looking down the barrel of spending 6 years in this agricultural division, without being included in the FIFA 16 Brigade, because I don't have an X Box
UTB & FTP

 

[derryblade]

So instead of holding Jim accountable for the last 5 years, we can shower him with praise for the wildly successful last 2 seasons, and the quite remarkable progress we have made during that time?

We are making remarkable progress to 3rd tier obscurity

 

[Woodwardfan]

What is it like in cloud cuckoo land?

I suppose it's better than where you are at present.

Not sure how many promotion campaigns you've enjoyed but sometimes it can emerge from relative chaos.

Have a look at Scunthorpe's results record this season. 6 games ago they were in the bottom three and their manager was deemed under pressure. The've won 4 out of the last 5 and were very unlucky to lose in injury time at league leaders Gillingham in the odd game they didn't win. That's football.

We have plenty there if we start to put it all together, believe me.

 

[Tezza1889]

..

No one has said there is. Jim certainly hasn't suggested that at all.

Sean, this quote was in reply to another poster
Like most on here I e met Jim and he's a likeable guy..

 

[derryblade]

I think him bigging up the investment/ reinvestment to over £21+ million will come back to bite him when it's realised that £8 million or so of that figure appears to be from income generated by the club rather than cash input.

He says quite clearly that HRH has put in around £13 million cash which has enabled the club to generate the balance which is not additional investment however anyone wants to look at it.

There has been a recent share allotment btw, which may be related to the three million Jim speaks of. im sure someone can look on Twitter to find out what that means and put their own spin on it so it's not worth explaining.

I wouldn't question the investment figure, I am more interested in how the investment has been spent and has it been spent wisely to the benefit of the football team. The product on the pitch is what matters to the majority of supporters.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Nor do I. But that's what Jim says. I'm not going to publicly dispute that because I know several accountants will be all over it and I don't follow football to spend my time arguing about accounts, finances, stats and graphs.

It's those graphs again.

 

[Darthblade]

Loan players cost money on top of the inflated wage bill we already have.

Oh, and we will go up, we've got a good manager and a good squad which will settle and gel before long.

But loan players of the type I'm proposing will be at the lower end of the wage scale and moving our underperforming dross out will partly balance that out. We may even consider retiring some permanently injured players and paying off some "nearly finished" contracts to rid ourselves of some further underperformers.

Where there's a will there's a way ......

On the promotion issue, I really, really hope that you're right ( and I'm not joking here ) and I will be delighted to unreservedly apologise to you on this forum, in capital letters and admit that I was a pessimistic old bastard if at the end of this season we're promoted. Nothing would give me greater pleasure and you can call me a grumpy old twat as well if you wish.

Regrettably .... I don't think that's going to happen and I believe we will all be having this same ding-dong next year at this time, but my worry is that by then Adams will have been sold ( even though we don't need to sell ) and NA will have had enough and told big Jim to stick his job where the sand doesn't get to .......

Is it too early for beer ? .........
UTB & FTP

 

[Jonboy60]

Rather than having a hissy fit at the fans for having the temerity to mention our previous (and various) fuck ups, why not have the hissy fit at the people who make and made the various fuck ups in the hope that one it reminds/scares/annoys them into not making the same fuck ups time and time again?

For example, when was the last time we were able to say "do you know what, fair enough we had to sell xyz, but wow, look at the two people we brought in as replacement, what a statement of intent"?

Ever?

But by definition Pete your not going to get anyone better, unless you use all the money and some, to buy one. If other teams want our players it's generally because they are better than what they've got. If we want to replace Murphy with someone better than him, then we use all of the fee and more.

 

[Tezza1889]

But loan players of the type I'm proposing will be at the lower end of the wage scale and moving our underperforming dross out will partly balance that out. We may even consider retiring some permanently injured players and paying off some "nearly finished" contracts to rid ourselves of some further underperformers.

Where there's a will there's a way ......

On the promotion issue, I really, really hope that you're right ( and I'm not joking here ) and I will be delighted to unreservedly apologise to you on this forum, in capital letters and admit that I was a pessimistic old bastard if at the end of this season we're promoted. Nothing would give me greater pleasure and you can call me a grumpy old twat as well if you wish.

Regrettably .... I don't think that's going to happen and I believe we will all be having this same ding-dong next year at this time, but my worry is that by then Adams will have been sold ( even though we don't need to sell ) and NA will have had enough and told big Jim to stick his job where the sand doesn't get to .......

Is it too early for beer ? .........
UTB & FTP

It's not too early for beer, or too early to write the season off, I think we'll go up, it's the piss poor start Wigan made that keeps me optimistic, and if we can go an a run alongside them the table will look how it's supposed to, I do think if Adams continues scoring then che will be flogged in Jan tho, it's just something we seem to do...

 

[Woodwardfan]

But loan players of the type I'm proposing will be at the lower end of the wage scale and moving our underperforming dross out will partly balance that out. We may even consider retiring some permanently injured players and paying off some "nearly finished" contracts to rid ourselves of some further underperformers.

Where there's a will there's a way ......

On the promotion issue, I really, really hope that you're right ( and I'm not joking here ) and I will be delighted to unreservedly apologise to you on this forum, in capital letters and admit that I was a pessimistic old bastard if at the end of this season we're promoted. Nothing would give me greater pleasure and you can call me a grumpy old twat as well if you wish.

Regrettably .... I don't think that's going to happen and I believe we will all be having this same ding-dong next year at this time, but my worry is that by then Adams will have been sold ( even though we don't need to sell ) and NA will have had enough and told big Jim to stick his job where the sand doesn't get to .......

Is it too early for beer ? .........
UTB & FTP

Darth do you seriously believe the manager and his " Technical Committe" do not have a grasp of the benefits of signing better loan players on less wages and shipping out the lesser players on higher wages? Do you seriously believe they would not have done it already if it had been possible?

That dilemna is mentioned in Phipps' communication if you read it closely and that's why he's so angry about the "off committee" signings Clough did while he enjoyed carte blanche authority and chose to circumvent the committe and piled up loads of underperforming or injured players on contracts which cannot be ignored and whom no other clubs want.

Paying off contracts is also seriously expensive but because of injuries cannot be contemplated for a while.