Collins approach to Long was a disgrace

[LoughboroBlade]

I'm not one for strong comment, but the way Collins turned on Long after the first goal mess up was disgusting. Long needed a reassuring word from a senior pro, not a bollocking from someone who hasn't played for ages. It shot his confidence and that of the whole defence, who all lost faith after the first five minutes.

I think you'll find what Long really needed was for the fans behind him to yell at him for the rest of the half telling him how shit he was, sarcastically cheering when he caught a ball or kicked it properly. He was marginally better with the Gills fans behind him.

In the other thread on before the game who to pick as the keeper, I defended Long but actually voted for Howard, despite my misgivings about his fitness and second half of last season. What I was trying to argue though was that Adkins was assessing the players afresh, and that it was within the realms of possibility that Long would get the nod on merit.

I'm not blaming the fans for Long's performance before anyone asks, and I can't comment on Collins's behaviour (didn't see a reaction – did see a lack of reaction to the ball in the box) but when did it suddenly become ok for us to heap abusive on a confidence-shattered player? Totally self-destructive.

 

[sportinguista]

I think you'll find what Long really needed was for the fans behind him to yell at him for the rest of the half telling him how shit he was, sarcastically cheering when he caught a ball or kicked it properly. He was marginally better with the Gills fans behind him.

In the other thread on before the game who to pick as the keeper, I defended Long but actually voted for Howard, despite my misgivings about his fitness and second half of last season. What I was trying to argue though was that Adkins was assessing the players afresh, and that it was within the realms of possibility that Long would get the nod on merit.

I'm not blaming the fans for Long's performance before anyone asks, and I can't comment on Collins's behaviour (didn't see a reaction – did see a lack of reaction to the ball in the box) but when did it suddenly become ok for us to heap abusive on a confidence-shattered player? Totally self-destructive.

As a keeper myself - and certainly not one who came anywhere near Long's level - I know how important the keeper's confidence on the pitch is to the whole defensive unit. What I fail to grasp is how George's can be so low in the season opener...after a poor run mid season and bouts of miscommunication and a string of bad results maybe confidence drops, ok, but in the season opener when you've had all summer to train together and played friendlies surely the one thing you can start the first league match with is your confidence. If you don't have it to start with it's likely you'll never have it at all. Poor George was like a rabbit in the headlights yesterday and he looked awful sadly. I don't agree with the barracking he took from some on the away end as that certainly wasn't going to help him, but neither did I see him or hear him shout at all during the game. He should have been barking back at Collins after their mix up - bloody soft back pass left him a bit exposed...but silence prevailed. The writing was on the wall when the Gillingham player was having a few words with him early in the first half. Reminded me of being a skinny 17year old getting the verbals from big units up front in the Sunday leagues. It sometimes worked on me and it looked like it worked a treat on George yesterday. He never left his goal line after that. Didn't come for a single cross, none of the corners...I'm not gonna blame him for the goals but I do think the cross that led to the corner for the second goal had "Keeper's ball" written all over it. He didn't come, it went behind for a corner. He didn't come for that. It went in.
For those that think he may have been fouled for the first goal...did anyone see any player protesting about it? Did George run to the officials complaining? Nope. They all simply dropped their heads and looked at the floor. The writing was on the wall from then.

I don't want to see any player fail, and I certainly won't be throwing abuse at George Long, but blimey, he looked lost yesterday and no team needs a goalkeeper who is so fragile and above all quiet. He's got to be organizing the shite in front of him and telling them he's coming for the ball. And then come and catch/punch the bloody ball man! Good luck George but you've got to man up a bit.

 

[robbiez666]

Keepers should bash their way through crowds to collect balls. They get almost 100% protection from refs. I'm sorry to say that George is not up to professional football in this country as he quietly stands on his line. No communication or determination, but he'll probably look brilliant in a 5-aside game where he's protected by an area.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I do think the cross that led to the corner for the second goal had "Keeper's ball" written all over it. He didn't come, it went behind for a corner.

Looked to me like it was going out, Long had left it to go out, but nobody had shouted at McFadzean, who had nobody near him, and who headed it behind – either because he ignored calls, or because there was no call. Either way, defensive disaster all round.

 

[Kempy]

As a keeper myself - and certainly not one who came anywhere near Long's level - I know how important the keeper's confidence on the pitch is to the whole defensive unit. What I fail to grasp is how George's can be so low in the season opener...after a poor run mid season and bouts of miscommunication and a string of bad results maybe confidence drops, ok, but in the season opener when you've had all summer to train together and played friendlies surely the one thing you can start the first league match with is your confidence. If you don't have it to start with it's likely you'll never have it at all. Poor George was like a rabbit in the headlights yesterday and he looked awful sadly. I don't agree with the barracking he took from some on the away end as that certainly wasn't going to help him, but neither did I see him or hear him shout at all during the game. He should have been barking back at Collins after their mix up - bloody soft back pass left him a bit exposed...but silence prevailed. The writing was on the wall when the Gillingham player was having a few words with him early in the first half. Reminded me of being a skinny 17year old getting the verbals from big units up front in the Sunday leagues. It sometimes worked on me and it looked like it worked a treat on George yesterday. He never left his goal line after that. Didn't come for a single cross, none of the corners...I'm not gonna blame him for the goals but I do think the cross that led to the corner for the second goal had "Keeper's ball" written all over it. He didn't come, it went behind for a corner. He didn't come for that. It went in.
For those that think he may have been fouled for the first goal...did anyone see any player protesting about it? Did George run to the officials complaining? Nope. They all simply dropped their heads and looked at the floor. The writing was on the wall from then.

I don't want to see any player fail, and I certainly won't be throwing abuse at George Long, but blimey, he looked lost yesterday and no team needs a goalkeeper who is so fragile and above all quiet. He's got to be organizing the shite in front of him and telling them he's coming for the ball. And then come and catch/punch the bloody ball man! Good luck George but you've got to man up a bit.

Ahh... Someone with a bit of sense, seems rare. Couldn't agree more, how you can be low of confidence after a good preseason is beyond me.

How you can use fans taunts (our own, or theirs and rightly or wrongly) is also not an excuse. For Christ sake this is a professional football player who has just come off the back of a relegation fight. He will have heard a lot worse.

His decision making was atrocious yesterday. How he did not punch clear that first corner or claim the cross for the second goal is beyond me. Anything in your six yard box as a keeper is yours. In my eyes he deserved the bollocking he got from collins and should have done one of two things: Take it like a pro after screwing up so early in the game and make sure the next and the rest are all claimed. Or grow a pair and shout back at whoever should have been clearing the lad impeding him. He did neither of those and allowed another weak ball to drop into the area that he should have been commanding, for the second goal.

Don't think collins and that waste of space Jaymac are totally exempt from yesterday's ineptetude, I could write a fucking book on how those two are no where near good enough. Especially the latter of whose offer of an extension for this season pains me, let alone to now know he's club captain. The only reason i could see for extending Jmac a contract is so other clubs don't hold us to ransom for a fee on a new CB. Certinally not for playing reasons. Those in other threads talking of trying him at LB are out of their heads. The lad is prone to 4 rickets a game, can't head the ball, and is probably the slowest player we have. I'd wager Morgs could run faster with his knee screwed.

I fully foot the blame at Adkins here for getting that lineup very very wrong. However, Long was at fault for the first two goals yesterday killing the chance of getting 3 points. He has played enough already to know the basics yet isn't doing them

 

[groveblade]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of Collins bollocking Long are.... IMO Long should be nowhere near the first team if he is still such a delicate flower that he can't handle it and go on to have a good game.

Long made his debut a good while ago, has been out on loan etc and we can't afford to nurse him through for half a season while promotion slips away again. From (briefly) seeing the highlights it looks like a commanding keeper would definitely have caught/punched the first 2 goals and could maybe have come out the 3rd.

I'm not writing Long off but he needs to improve dramatically to be our 1st choice keeper. He should be handing out the bollockings and commanding his area if he is to be a good gk.

 

[BladeFisher]

I think he's trying to not play the public blame game. He knows full well who is at fault or at least will when he re-watches the match on DVD later. If he starts singling out players he'll start lowering their confidence more than it already is like Clough seemed to. I trust him to identify the problems and bring in suitable replacements even if it does take a little longer to get them in. If he can't turn this around then I don't for the life of me know who will.

Porterfield, Basset, Warnock with a bit of help from Uncle Reg and a few dodgy deals.

 

[sportinguista]

Looked to me like it was going out, Long had left it to go out, but nobody had shouted at McFadzean, who had nobody near him, and who headed it behind – either because he ignored calls, or because there was no call. Either way, defensive disaster all round.

And therein lies the lesson...TAKE COMMAND OF THE SITUATION, collect the ball rather than let it go out or leave it, communicate with your defender and be in control. Do neither and look what happens next. It really is goalkeeping basics. However, that was one goal. Let's not overdo the George Long confidence thing. The team were crap all round.

 

[alcoblade]

I think you'll find what Long really needed was for the fans behind him to yell at him for the rest of the half telling him how shit he was, sarcastically cheering when he caught a ball or kicked it properly. He was marginally better with the Gills fans behind him.

In the other thread on before the game who to pick as the keeper, I defended Long but actually voted for Howard, despite my misgivings about his fitness and second half of last season. What I was trying to argue though was that Adkins was assessing the players afresh, and that it was within the realms of possibility that Long would get the nod on merit.

I'm not blaming the fans for Long's performance before anyone asks, and I can't comment on Collins's behaviour (didn't see a reaction – did see a lack of reaction to the ball in the box) but when did it suddenly become ok for us to heap abusive on a confidence-shattered player? Totally self-destructive.

I like your post. But we should also consider that once again after a few minutes of football we are talking about protecting the shattered confidence of a player.

We need to go up this season. That doesn't involve taking gambles with youth, as for some bizarre reason quite a few would have it.

UTB

 

[Maidenhead]

Long had a shocker yesterday.

If the poor little boy can't take a bit of deserved stick off his frustrated team mates then he will never make a keeper.

I wasn't happy with his selection, said so before the game, and I don't believe he will ever make a keeper. He may have ability but lacks physical attributes, character and presence required to play at professional level.

I'm no great fan off Collins but yesterday I could understand his frustration.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I like your post. But we should also consider that once again after a few minutes of football we are talking about protecting the shattered confidence of a player.

We need to go up this season. That doesn't involve taking gambles with youth, as for some bizarre reason quite a few would have it.

UTB

Agreed, and tbh I'll be surprised if he starts at Chesterfield on Saturday (assuming Howard doesn't injure himself on Tuesday).

It's interesting that when Adkins talks about getting in a centre-half, he makes it clear that it's important we get someone reliable with experience. Yet neither of our current keepers offer that at the minute – all focus on strikers and defenders seems to have obscured this.

 

[Deadbat]

The goalkeeping situation is a mess.

Sadly I think yesterday proved that Long will in all likelihood probably never make it at this level or higher. I could be wrong of course but this is not based just on one game. He was loaned out to two sides last season and struggled at both and was even dropped by Oxford who sent him back. At Motherwell he did ok in the playoff games but for the rest of the time he made numerous mistakes.

People say he is a confidence player but he has been around now for 2 or 3 seasons and I would wager he has got worse as a player and in terms of confidence since he made his debut at 17.

He was given the nod yesterday by the new manager and should have been as confident as he could possibly be to get the start; be the number one. the first goal was laughable. Why did he just not power through the player and punch it away; if he had tried to go through the man and hit the floor; the referee would have given a foul to us. this was Simonsens biggest issue. The referees never give fouls on goalkeepers if they take players out on corners in attempts to get the ball; indeed they normally give it to the keeper for being obstructed. The way he tried to punch it about shoulder high as a 5;9-10 guy was able to hold him off was pathetic. Then he did not come at all for the second.

I am unsure where he goes from here as Howard will now be back in next week and then what - another loan - to where? Scotland which is abysmal standard or another League Two side where he wont even be a first choice keeper.

Sad in a way as when he came into the team I really thought he might make it as he had the build, athleticism and reflexes but his basic command of an area/ability to impose is non existent.

I see he only had another year left on his contact and I would not expect him to be offered anything unless there is a remarkable turnaround. The goalkeeping situation since we came down has never been sorted and for all those that say Howard is ok they really need to look at the two playoff games (two biggest games of the season and he made 2 huge errors in both legs - and for all those saying he was injured - that is another reason why he is not good enough).

I doo think when need a new keeper as much as 2 new centre backs and all this Howard is ok...we wll bumble along is not good enough for such a key position ...he proved in the final few month of last season he was not good enough as shot after shot sailed pat him.

 

[BladeFisher]

Obviously we should have done but we haven't and we have to live with that. Nigel Adkins isn't a miracle worker, I'm sure he'll get it right. He's undoubtedly found out a lot today and if this isn't a kick up the backside then I don't know what is.
Don't forget, when he went to Southampton in September 2010 they were bottom of the league, by May they were 2nd. He can turn this around, it's only the first game. No need to hit the panic button just yet. Yes we do need centre halves in and he's been trying to get players in in that area (as he's stated in interviews). For whatever reason, those deals haven't gone through yet. Pieces need to slot into place, it's not as simple as just going out and picking whoever he wants.

Southamton were 22nd when Adkins took over. He lost his first game 0-2 drew the second 0-0 winning the third at Hillsborough.

 

[Bergen Blade]

The referee looked at his linesman for a long time before giving the 1st goal - he looked to me like he wanted someone else to make the decision for him. At the time, I thought the biggest question mark was whether or not someone touched it or not.

I think we were a bit unfortunate that it was allowed.

Another OG?

Not always easy for referees to spot everything at corners, but I think it's a foul. Look at where his feet are when he jumps and when he lands. Does the player poke it over the line lying down?

On the second there are seven players in front of him and the inswinging corner is dipping just at the right moment. I think it would have been difficult to get to the ball. Is it Freeman who loses his man, who gets his head to the dipping ball first and also scores?

Third one is again well hit, but probably one that he could have claimed if he'd been determined to go for it.

On the fourth he seems to stretch for it with his left arm. Does it go over him? If so, correct gk technique would have been to use his right arm as that would get him higher. It may of course still have been out of reach.

Would Howard have done better/differently in those situations?

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Southamton were 22nd when Adkins took over. He lost his first game 0-2 drew the second 0-0 winning the third at Hillsborough.

True, though in fairness he had a few days to prepare the players for that first game, rather than a few months.

 

[robbiez666]

True, though in fairness he had a few days to prepare the players for that first game, rather than a few months.

And this is a major concern. How has he not seen this is training or pre-season? He's a bright man and must know that pre-season is generally an uncommitted stroll, especially for teams playing us from higher divisions. it's about fitness and, more importantly for the players, not picking up injuries. If he's watched actual league games from last season, many of yesterday's problems would have been evident. He's been unlucky with injuries but there are still the same defensive problems with a fully-fit squad, albeit less so.

 

[BladeFisher]

Adkins should have brought someone in , either a season long loan or signed . A lesson learnt against GIllingham but could be carried over to Chesterfield if not resolved. OK you just cannot blame the CB pairing for a 4-0 defeat , but in truth it was a disaster waiting to happen. I suppose ( which is not a good thing ) , the club , manager , players and fans will all be in shock with this one . However the positive - Norwich lost there first match 7-1 the year they got promoted .
You , me and every other blade knew we had a major weak link . Adkins cannot work wonders , we have no divine right to beat any team in this division , but we should be prepared and get rid of any risk factor.

That new scout bloke , as now got to show how good he is and earn his money .

Wonder if the players feel that they let us down , whilst they are having there Cornflakes , this morning.

UTB.

Maybe we should get Justin Edinburgh in then?

 

[Pinchy]

41% of forum members wanted to start with Long!

It's bad form if Collins has gone over the top with him, but are we really expecting promotion with a keeper who still needs wrapping in cotton wool?

UTB

Precisely. But, no, Bladey Blades saw him have two good games for Motherwell and that was enough.

The lad has the size and physique to make a goalkeeper but NONE of the other attributes required. He is a rabbit caught in the headlights. No command, no presence, no anticipation. No agility. Nothing.

Meanwhile, I tell it as it is about Local George, Diego de Juve, Little Louis, Mighty McFadz et al, all the Bladey Blades stamp their feet and cry "foul" whilst I ruefully watch them disappear into obscurity.

Altogether now:

Ironside....Ironside.......

 

[Pinchy]

We knew Collins was shite when we were relegated from the Championship, why the fuck would he be any good now?

Any manager who picks him isn't worth a wet wank.

Said some time ago that of Adkins can't see the defence's problems then get someone in who can.

4-0 to Gillingham, lets see you be positive about that?

Sort it or fuck off.

Pathetic. Let's get Quickfix Mickey back, eh?

Grow up.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Precisely. But, no, Bladey Blades saw him have two good games for Motherwell and that was enough.

The lad has the size and physique to make a goalkeeper but NONE of the other attributes required. He is a rabbit caught in the headlights. No command, no presence, no anticipation. No agility. Nothing.

Meanwhile, I tell it as it is about Local George, Diego de Juve, Little Louis, Mighty McFadz et al, all the Bladey Blades stamp their feet and cry "foul" whilst I ruefully watch them disappear into obscurity.

Altogether now:

Ironside....Ironside.......

Given you rate Adkins, who is not a Bladey Blade, would you like to offer an explanation why Long and McFadzean were picked?

For the record, I thought Reed was much better than the rest of the dross yesterday – dare I say it show more physical strength than many of those around him too.

 

[Deadbat]

Not always easy for referees to spot everything at corners, but I think it's a foul. Look at where his feet are when he jumps and when he lands. Does the player poke it over the line lying down?

On the second there are seven players in front of him and the inswinging corner is dipping just at the right moment. I think it would have been difficult to get to the ball. Is it Freeman who loses his man, who gets his head to the dipping ball first and also scores?

Third one is again well hit, but probably one that he could have claimed if he'd been determined to go for it.

On the fourth he seems to stretch for it with his left arm. Does it go over him? If so, correct gk technique would have been to use his right arm as that would get him higher. It may of course still have been out of reach.

Would Howard have done better/differently in those situations?

Not sure how Long can be defended on the first two goals. Both in 6 yard box. Both goalkeepers ball; either punched or caught. Defenders don't help but the first it was probably not a foul DUE to the way Long went for it. He jumped back and was so weak. If he goes through the man with conviction to punch it; he would get the ball or the foul. It was weak and pathetic and reminded me of Simonsen when Weds used to bombard us. The third and fourth he has no chance. Collins heads it in unopposed from the pen spot and the 4th Freeman and Reed are pathetic as they let the player jog by them.

 

[Pinchy]

Whether I do or not, I am not blaming Long for Adkins picking him

I'll help you. He's fucking rhubarb! Absolutely terrible.

See, not difficult when you shake off the Bladey Blade chains.

 

[alcoblade]

Given you rate Adkins, who is not a Bladey Blade, would you like to offer an explanation why Long and McFadzean were picked?

For the record, I thought Reed was much better than the rest of the dross yesterday – dare I say it show more physical strength than many of those around him too.

Adkins put too much stall on giving the current players the benefit of the doubt, in my opinion. George Long is clearly not good enough in a mans game. Pre season friendlies are not a test.

The same goes for Baxter. A show pony who looks good at half pace, but lacking he physical attributes to push on from this level.

I hope we've seen the last of them both.

UTB

 

[Pinchy]

Given you rate Adkins, who is not a Bladey Blade, would you like to offer an explanation why Long and McFadzean were picked?

For the record, I thought Reed was much better than the rest of the dross yesterday – dare I say it show more physical strength than many of those around him too.

I can give no explanation. They should not have been. Both are very poor. In Long's case, it's worse. He is incompetent.

Two good games for fucking Motherwell eh? I despair, I really do.

Let's see where the Bladey Blades end up in the game, shall we? My minority view has held up rather well so far.

Anyway, sing up...

Ironside.... Ironside.....

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Defenders don't help but the first it was probably not a foul DUE to the way Long went for it. He jumped back and was so weak. If he goes through the man with conviction to punch it; he would get the ball or the foul.

Agree with that. To a certain extent it's down to selling the level of contact so it's obvious to the officials, as awful as that sounds.

Speaking of which, Adams honestly stuck to his feet when clattered into, kept the ball, was tripped again by the box, and was given nothing. It's frustrating that we encourage players not to fall to the ground when fouls aren't penalised unless they do.

Murphy on the other hand seemed liable to collapse every time he had the ball.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

The same goes for Baxter. A show pony who looks good at half pace, but lacking he physical attributes to push on from this level.

There was a moment yesterday where McFadzean was pulled out of position, Collins had to rush out to the left, and as the cross came in it was Baxter that was covering for Collins. That is a scary scenario – didn't lead to a goal, but very nearly did.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Maybe we should get Justin Edinburgh in then?

Not a bad shout that . Manager or Centre Half.

UTB

 

[Bladesince59]

Long doesn't do it. But nor does Howard. And we expect to go up?

 

[Gavlar]

The two new CHs that most supporters have been saying that we desperately needed ....... since September last year !!
UTB & FTP

seeing as they haven't arrived who would you have played?

 

[Grappler]

Well lads, lucky for me I was working overseas last week, always a chance I would not get back in time, so never bothered buying a ticket. Thank god! In the past I have cut short meetings in the USA just to get back for the second half of a game.

I have read this entire thread from start to finish and if I gave a "like" for every common sense thing said on here, I would be here all day.

We all knew the problems from last season. I assume that we took the risk and blew the bit of money we had on Billy Sharp (I am never a fan of players returning, as I have said before).

Jay Mac had the Captain's armband yesterday I think, did he show any leadership ability? We would have been better putting Sammon and Higdon in the back four because they occasionally show flashes of aggression. To use that well-worn phrase, "what I wouldn't give for a Chris Morgan type", a hard nut who knows what he is doing, or to use a modern well-worn phrase, "if only Terry Kennedy's knees could hold up", because he literally put his head and body on the line last season.

Keith Edwards rant on the radio yesterday was spot on, he said sack the entire the back four and the keeper. To be fair to him, he did say he apologised to the families of all concerned, because it isn't nice to have to slag off someone's son, brother, etc., but then he repeated, after apologising, they all need moving on.

Even more concerning, is that if Nigel Adkins thinks that a strategy of "score more than you concede" is going to work with this team, he is wrong, we didn't score one goal and had very few chances.

UTB