Geniune questions to all those who are for Clough staying.....

[Deleted member 1486]

I feel more connected to the team than I have for about 8 years.
I think there is more of a character now, and a lack of journeymen & loanees that have tainted previous squads

Me too. You've hit the nail on the head. There is a core group of players who feel like they belong here and are proud to play for this club. We've gained more than just the difference in points since last season.

That's not to say the squad is a finished article; far from it, but it is certainly a group of players who you can build around both to get out of this league and beyond.

 

[metalblade]

We desperately need to stop being so reactionary and have time to allow the club to grow under one manager. The constant chopping and changing is what lead us to be where we are now. It very rarely works out like it did for Watford, I'm sure we can all think of loads of teams who are/were examples of why you shouldn't go through managers like they are going out of fashion.

Besides which, our record of appointing managers is dreadful. Appointing anyone, at any time, at any club is a roll of the dice, but do you trust this club to the make the right decision?!? THIS club? Really? You're new here, right?

I'm amazed that anyone can be confident that changing manager would improve results given our recent record! We are on an upwards curve, we are improving season on season, if Clough is backed with a bit of cash (we all know which positions we are lacking in) I can see us winning this league next season. I'll admit, it isn't a certainty, but I'm still a lot more confident of that happening under Clough than after *another* spin on the manager roulette wheel!

I think the line I have highlighted is the problem not the chopping and changing. Get a decent manager in and it removes the need to constantly change. The thing is Nigel is showing he is not a very good manager at all and keeping him here and in a job for the sake of stability will just keep us where we are now. Nothing at all suggests Nigel will learn from his mistakes, the same mistakes that were his downfall at Derby and nothing at all would suggest he has the ability to get us out of this league in an upward direction I might add.

 

[him behind you]

But it being complained about and it being identified as top priority are different things.

Agreed WHF, but hasn't our manager bemoaned our inability to defend (and indeed attack) set pieces due to our lack of height which is generally something brought to every team with the inclusion of at least one specialist central defender? If so, who's fault actually is it that we didn't have any for most of the season and, therefore, couldn't defend set pieces?

 

[Bayingblade]

I understand those calling for Clough's head and much evidence backs up their argument. Of course, like everyone, I see this season as failure (again!) but I guess I am in the camp who are sick of seeing United lurch from one manager to another which has resulted in the club going backwards. I would like to think that Mr Clough has learned some lessons from last night and indeed this season, so I lean more towards giving him a chance to sort out the problems. We all know what they are and I think (hope!) he does too. I still think there are some positive things coming out of his tenure though - the structure of training with all teams following the same track, the development of youth etc. I think there are some strong foundations being put in place but I understand the frustration that this has not yet translated to first team success, and that can only be measured by promotion.

It doesn't stop me from thinking that he shouldn't be hauled over the coals for a number of things though (again, we know what they are) and he should be left under no illusion that he has a certain amount of time to start delivering. The first is to have a recognised and balanced first team squad in place as quickly as possible, ideally for pre-season training and the second is to be on course for automatic promotion by December. And by "on course", I mean challenging hard for the top 2, not in touch with the play off places.

Four players who are going to go straight into the first team should do it. It's not that much when you think about it.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

You're splitting hairs. It has been one of the major issues this season, if not the major issue.

Indeed, it's something that virtually everyone is unhappy about, whereas there is less of a consensus in relation to issues such as one up front and the midget midfield.

Disagree. Management has to prioritise on finite resources.

How many times has Clough been asked about it? That to me says it's not been an issue till relatively recently.

If there are loads of examples and interviewers have been bending his ear for months then fine, but I don't think that's happened.

---

(Midget midfield gets plenty of grief too.)

The one up front might even have a majority in favour(!!?!?).

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Agreed WHF, but hasn't our manager bemoaned our inability to defend (and indeed attack) set pieces due to our lack of height which is generally something brought to every team with the inclusion of at least one specialist central defender? If so, who's fault actually is it that we didn't have any for most of the season and, therefore, couldn't defend set pieces?

The last I heard him say about this was it wasn't about height, it was about jobs. Freeman on Thursday.

Either way, again it's finite resources and priorities.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I understand those calling for Clough's head and much evidence backs up their argument. Of course, like everyone, I see this season as failure (again!) but I guess I am in the camp who are sick of seeing United lurch from one manager to another which has resulted in the club going backwards. I would like to think that Mr Clough has learned some lessons from last night and indeed this season, so I lean more towards giving him a chance to sort out the problems. We all know what they are and I think (hope!) he does too. I still think there are some positive things coming out of his tenure though - the structure of training with all teams following the same track, the development of youth etc. I think there are some strong foundations being put in place but I understand the frustration that this has not yet translated to first team success, and that can only be measured by promotion.

It doesn't stop me from thinking that he shouldn't be hauled over the coals for a number of things though (again, we know what they are) and he should be left under no illusion that he has a certain amount of time to start delivering. The first is to have a recognised and balanced first team squad in place as quickly as possible, ideally for pre-season training and the second is to be on course for automatic promotion by December. And by "on course", I mean challenging hard for the top 2, not in touch with the play off places.

Four players who are going to go straight into the first team should do it. It's not that much when you think about it.

Agree with pretty much all of that.

 

[him behind you]

Imagine the outcry for stability if we won or lost 4-3 every week, with the occasional 5-5 draw.

As always this is damned if you do, damned if you don't.

(I do have one major reservation - but that's for a different thread.)

Excellent point mate. It's personal preference I suppose. Ideally we all want to watch a winning team BUT I'd prefer a winning entertaining team than a winning boring team. I also think that it doesn't have to be one or the other (entertain or bore) as Chelsea have shown this season.

 

[YES Blade]

Because he's a better manager than YOU or anyone else who thinks they know best or thinks they could do better from this forum or any other.

That's the criteria for a manager? Weir could have had a job for life!

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

You say that if Nigel had have taken the shackles off then we would have at least been entertained, Danny Wilson entertained in his first season and ultimately failed to get promotion and most on hear still thought he was a bell end. The truth is if you are entertained but fail fans will moan. There have been glimpses of what we are capable of and to throw 18 months work down the pan now would be crazy. One thing that is overlooked that I believe had a huge impact on our season was chedgate, such a negative time at BDTBL, national press were calling United from a pig to a dog and the while clough had to carry on as if nothing was happening

Thing is Wilsons team would have still scored five last night but not conceded the five.

Wilson had a much better team than Clough, a team he inherited from the second division with some players who went on to play at premiership level.
Clough is having to re-build a team from the third division and he's had Brayford at Premiership class and Harry for a short spell.

Agree that the Evans farce effected us, probably more than we will know.

 

[grafikhaus]

We are clearly better off now than when clough came in.
Some comparisons don’t look quite so good this season v last because we did SO well on an amazing & exciting run last season.

...which was more than cancelled out by the shocking start under Weir. (Five points from ten games). The 'amazing and exciting run' you refer to was seven consequetive wins - if you can't string a run like that together over a 46-game season, you're not genuine promotion contenders. Given that start - nearly a quarter of a season - to finish just four points better is not 'progress' in any way, shape or form.

We didn't cope well with selling our best player, & have had some bad luck with injuries, but we should have coped better with those issues.

Chesterfield lost Eoin Doyle (top scorer), MKD lost Afobe and Delle Alli missed a number of games out injured. Rochdale lost Done. Sunderland are about to have their own Ched-gate. These problems aren't unique to United.

 

[nowtfancy]

...which was more than cancelled out by the shocking start under Weir. (Five points from ten games). The 'amazing and exciting run' you refer to was seven consequetive wins - if you can't string a run like that together over a 46-game season, you're not genuine promotion contenders. Given that start - nearly a quarter of a season - to finish just four points better is not 'progress' in any way, shape or form.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't just the 7 consecutive wins that I found exciting after clough came in. You can make statistics to back up most arguments and I subscribe to the theory that stats are like a lamppost to a drunken man - more for leaning on than illumination. But if you dont think we are better off since clough than before clough that's up to you.

[QUOTE="Chesterfield lost Eoin Doyle (top scorer), MKD lost Afobe and Delle Alli missed a number of games out injured. Rochdale lost Done. Sunderland are about to have their own Ched-gate. These problems aren't unique to United.[/QUOTE]


They're not, and for me the reason why this season wasn't more successful is that Harry Maguire was our best player, he was sold and the attempts to replace him haven't worked. Of course that's a negative against clough, but overall we are getting better.
He'll stay.

 

[alcoblade]

Why would any manager want to come to Bramall lane where there is no money, .

We've just spent £2,000,000 on a right back. That statement is simply not true.

UTB

 

[grafikhaus]

They're not, and for me the reason why this season wasn't more successful is that Harry Maguire was our best player, he was sold and the attempts to replace him haven't worked. Of course that's a negative against clough, but overall we are getting better.
He'll stay.

Far from being the disaster it's being portrayed, I'd argue that Maguire's loss has been compensated for by the emergence of Basham. Oh, and £2.5m. Far more damaging is the near-obsession with Chris O'Grady. He's spent far too long obsessing over this guy and should have had back-up targets. And I don't mean the lamentable Higdon.

 

[super_pig]

Imagine the outcry for stability if we won or lost 4-3 every week, with the occasional 5-5 draw.
(I do have one major reservation - but that's for a different thread.)

can't agree with that. .at least it would be entertaining

 

[nowtfancy]

Far from being the disaster it's being portrayed, I'd argue that Maguire's loss has been compensated for by the emergence of Basham. Oh, and £2.5m. Far more damaging is the near-obsession with Chris O'Grady. He's spent far too long obsessing over this guy and should have had back-up targets. And I don't mean the lamentable Higdon.

I liked Basham from the first time I saw him, even though he was getting a dogs abuse from some something about the way he played and the smile on his face.
I think he can be a big player for us but needs to make a position his own.

I'll stick with the Maguire loss being the major impact on this season, mainly because most of the time (and especially last night) whoever is attacking us looks like scoring every time they move forward. That wasn't the case last year. (after clough )
Keeper & Centre halves are all we need to strengthen for me. Stop being so easy to score against.

 

[grafikhaus]

1. Who else would we get?
2. Why would they want come to us?

Why would any manager want to come to Bramall lane where there is no money, and the constant threat of being sacked after the first sign of failure, we are a league one club with league one players.

This is the perennial cry. What manager would want to play in front of crowds 2x and 3x the average at this level? In a fantastic stadium? With solid investment in place?

I'll tell you who wouldn't want that. A crap manager who would know that, with all that going for him, there'd be no hiding place. It looks like Warburton's escape route to QPR is vanishing. Would he be a success here? Impossible to say (Eddie Howe bombed in his short spell at Burnley). However, if the board had taken a quick look at NCs Wikipedia entry it would have told them all they needed to know about his managerial 'pedigree'.

 

[longinthe toothblade]

Imagine the outcry for stability if we won or lost 4-3 every week, with the occasional 5-5 draw.

As always this is damned if you do, damned if you don't.

(I do have one major reservation - but that's for a different thread.)

Can't wait!

 

[grafikhaus]

I'm pretty sure it wasn't just the 7 consecutive wins that I found exciting after clough came in. You can make statistics to back up most arguments and I subscribe to the theory that stats are like a lamppost to a drunken man - more for leaning on than illumination. But if you dont think we are better off since clough than before clough that's up to you.

Yes, the Cup runs were exciting. I'm sure last night was exciting. And I bet Burnley have had an exciting time in the PL. Trouble is, they've all ended in failure. But he's improving! This year we've had the failure and precious little excitement.

 

[Davie Blade]

1. Who else would we get?
2. Why would they want come to us?

Why would any manager want to come to Bramall lane where there is no money, and the constant threat of being sacked after the first sign of failure, we are a league one club with league one players.

I should think there are 20 plus League one managers who would swop places in a heart beat.

By that rationale the Blackpool vacancy will remain vacant.
Care to bet it gets filled?

 

[Gee]

Who is to say he didn't try to get a centre back in January, no one knows for certain as nothing is made public, he said he would only sign players who would make a difference, maybe decent centre backs he wanted said no. Cog said no and so did Brayford last summer as well as a few other targets. The manager can't kidnap players if they don't want to come here. His targets maybe available this summer. Maybe they won't and if that's the case and no one wants to come then we're in the same boat next season regarding the defence.

 

[ScoobBlade]

We've just spent £2,000,000 on a right back. That statement is simply not true.

UTB

it worth noting though that brayford was s special case, he made such an impact last season both on and off the pitch and it was a strange situation that it seems United had a profound effect on brayford. This gave us the opportunity to sign a player that is at least championship quality and who clearly loves the club and will give everything to get us up.

I'll admit that nearly 2m is a lot for a full back in league 1 but his signing was much more than that of a just a right back and the board could see that. I'm sure had the beard not been here before and been taken in by the whole club so much by the club like he was last year then that money would not have been available

 

[Bladebri]

I agree, he may have tried to get a CB but to no avail, the club will have one for the new season he can't afford not to, NC was given a 2-3 year deal I'm a big believer of a contract running its term, I feel next season will be better, we will be battling for automatic, if this fails then the board should reconsider NC position.

 

[BladeFisher]

During his post match interview he stated that the primary reason for the failure this season was the center back situation so i think that it is safe to assume he was aware that the problem existed. Unfortunately the interviewer did not press at to why Clough did not address it either via the loan market or in January, i would be interested to know the reasons.

Are you American?

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Because he's a better manager than YOU or anyone else who thinks they know best or thinks they could do better from this forum or any other.

Boo , everyone on here makes observations were Clough has got it totally wrong this year which IMO has cost us promotion. The posts are usually 100% correct , but we all come from different angles and all see a game not the same way , but the basic problems are there for all to see .Clough if he stays , (and it looks like he will ) , has to build a strong spine within the team . Thats just basic football , whether you are running a pub , non league or a professional team. Yes we are as many say work in progress , but there is still a lot of work to do.

Stability in management , yes , but more important stability on the playing front. Like they say ,the buck stops here , in this case Clough.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

it worth noting though that brayford was s special case, he made such an impact last season both on and off the pitch and it was a strange situation that it seems United had a profound effect on brayford. This gave us the opportunity to sign a player that is at least championship quality and who clearly loves the club and will give everything to get us up.

I'll admit that nearly 2m is a lot for a full back in league 1 but his signing was much more than that of a just a right back and the board could see that. I'm sure had the beard not been here before and been taken in by the whole club so much by the club like he was last year then that money would not have been available

I'm sure you are right. But when you can tickle your fancy's in such an extravagant way, the idea that people won't want to mange us because we have no money is simply laughable.

UTB

 

[ScoobBlade]

Im sure it's a job which would be quite sought after but I still think we have the right man already

 

[MiserableBlader]

Because he's a better manager than YOU or anyone else who thinks they know best or thinks they could do better from this forum or any other.

Why does he never manage to show it then :?

 

[MiserableBlader]

He's been in charge for for only 1 full season. He saved us from relegation last year and we nearly made the play-off's.
We did make the play-off's this year.
We scored 5 goals in an away leg, and we're beaten by the ref in the home leg.
He's not perfect and has made lots of mistakes, but he should be given at least another season.

Mad Mick - nuff said.

 

[MiserableBlader]

On the other hand, if it had occurred to Clough at any point during the season to fix he Centre Back situation then last night's attacking heroics might not have gone unrewarded. Going out and scoring plenty does not automatically mean your defence is a shambles.

Bit like MK Dons on a shoe string budget.