Wilder - Get Rid Now, or After Last Game

[The Fox]

Any chance that you could quote specicially where Einstein said that?

No, you can't. Because he didn't say it, and it's made up bollocks.

Possibly the most falsely attributed phrases of all time.

Of course outcome bias is just as mad.

I.E. Doing the same thing and expecting the same result .

Although not quoted anything like as much.

 

[Carlton Blade]

There are a few different reasons people aren’t renewing, and they all tie back to where we’ve been as a fanbase. We’re still coming down from the incredible high of Wilder 1.0. Hecky kept the music playing for a while, but even then it never quite felt the same. Last season, the buzz of promotion had faded, the football was flat, and most fans felt uninspired. Then Wembley happened, and it drained so much out of us that plenty of people started asking themselves what the point of it all was.

Now we’re coming off the back of a dreadful season, with the same manager who once gave us that unbelievable high — only he isn’t the same figure anymore. The Wilder debate is fascinating because so many people aren’t judging him on what he is now. Some want him in charge because they’re chasing nostalgia, trying to relive that magical period. When you criticise him, it feels to them like you’re criticising the memory of something precious. People say it’s a “bladey blade” thing, but I think it’s deeper: it’s about longing for how things felt, hoping lightning can strike twice. For many, it will never get better than that promotion under Wilder — the six grim years in League One, the misfits who came together, the odds defied, and a manager who was one of our own. It’s completely understandable that people want that feeling back.

But there’s another side to it. Some fans just want to move on. Wilder fatigue is real. He’s been here, on and off, for a decade — remarkable in modern football — but the party ran out of steam a long time ago. The baggage he brings now (the mates on social media, the local media cheerleading, the whole ecosystem around him) pushes some people into stronger positions than they’d otherwise take. Deep down, most don’t think he’s a bad manager; they just don’t think he’s worth the hassle anymore. Seeing him in the dugout reminds them of what he used to be, and it frustrates them that others can’t accept that the dream has ended.

In reality, Wilder isn't the big issue. Him being here just symbolises how little progress the club has actually made in the last decade despite the successes that came about due to him

I think that there are 2 types of fan involved in the strongest debates. The ones who still feel that sense of attachment to Wilder and the ones who no longer do and resent him for it. I do think they are the extremes.

The majority of people have a stronger sense of detachment from football and are able to look at it objectively. They loved the ride the first time and are happy they were there for it, but they understand it was a team effort and the players we had were more important than the bloke in the dugout - What they see is an OK manager, possibly below average in terms of matchday stuff. But the absolutely endless soap opera that accompanies him is tedious and now the results aren't there it feels like it's just not worth the hassle. They also recognise that the owners are at best absent and at worse idiots. Wilder staying at least means it's not a Selles redux.

So the strongest emotions are actually aimed at other United fans. The "how dare you question him" v "Why can't you see he's shit" teams. For most of us, we just want to like the players and enjoy the matchday again

 

[Carlton Blade]

Agree with every word of this.

The only thing I'd add is that not doing well next season will see plenty of fans kicking off regardless of who's in charge. I suspect Wilder would get more rope than Johnny Random, but whoever it is needs patience given the financial position. It might be a holding season regardless of the management.

In these circumstances, I think style of play really matters. As does having younger players.

'Experienced pros' playing low scoring, low chance matches and winning as many as they lose isn't going to cut it

 

[Houston_Blade]

we just want to like the players and enjoy the matchday again

 

[Carlton Blade]

View attachment 236039

Maybe Errea using chain mail was a bad idea in hindsight

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Who has he signed to replace the player types who left? He inherited Souza and attempted to replace him with Riedewald, Phillips and Rothwell. Still hasn't attempted to replace Souttar despite Anel also leaving.

He doesn't value athletes

It's an interesting point, and I agree that he certainly doesn't appear to be looking at the modern prototype of athletic footballer, with a good resale value.

However, we can't say he doesn't value athletes full stop. Baldock, Enda, Basham (fittest man at the club!), JOC, Berge, Anel, Souza, and now Seriki are all good athletes during his time here.

I do think that we're likely to see anyone of any real value to bring any dosh in, and feel that we're likely to pump any budget into Rothwells etc, to try and squeeze any last scrap of value out of them. It feels very short sighted and unlikely to be successful.

 

[SBSP]

Has he gone yet?

 

[Upton_Blade]

In these circumstances, I think style of play really matters. As does having younger players.

'Experienced pros' playing low scoring, low chance matches and winning as many as they lose isn't going to cut it

I'm genuinely not sure how many we'll see that don't fall into that bracket.

A look at his signings in January and the heavily rumoured from last summer before he was sacked show what his priorities are unless he's somehow changed completely, which is doubtful.

 

[bertieblade]

I would expect his contract will have a break clause which provides him with a bonus for keeping us up and an opportunity for the club to sack him at the end of this season.
I think it was the right decision to get rid of him last season, the problem was the guy that we appointed.
The club is currently in a worse state than it was when we lost the play off and subsequently now is the time to bring in a high calibre manager with new ideas etc. etc.
We will probably keep him until at least Christmas where if we are not in the top eight he will be moved on.
He kept us up but that is as far as it went, as soon as we got within a shout of the play offs he reverted to trying to see out single goal leads.
We threw away numerous points when being in a commanding position.
He refused to change tactics.
His team choice is sometimes laughable, would anyone else have played Chong on Saturday?
He has seemingly lost his ability to motivate the team, or were our last two home defeats bad luck.
We have no tactics, other than to play keep ball at the back and playing across the front of the opposition.
We do things at such a slow pace, we give any team time to get organised.
Etc.etc.

It will take braver owners to change managers after what happened last year, but it has to be done as I cannot see us doing anything other than tread water if he stays in charge.
Love him to prove me wrong

 

[Carlton Blade]

I'm genuinely not sure how many we'll see that don't fall into that bracket.

A look at his signings in January and the heavily rumoured from last summer before he was sacked show what his priorities are unless he's somehow changed completely, which is doubtful.

I fear you're right. Puts a lot of pressure on next season because there might not be many sellable assets in the incoming players, but we seem to be allergic to 1 year contracts a lot of the time

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

I would expect his contract will have a break clause which provides him with a bonus for keeping us up and an opportunity for the club to sack him at the end of this season.
I think it was the right decision to get rid of him last season, the problem was the guy that we appointed.
The club is currently in a worse state than it was when we lost the play off and subsequently now is the time to bring in a high calibre manager with new ideas etc. etc.
We will probably keep him until at least Christmas where if we are not in the top eight he will be moved on.
He kept us up but that is as far as it went, as soon as we got within a shout of the play offs he reverted to trying to see out single goal leads.
We threw away numerous points when being in a commanding position.
He refused to change tactics.
His team choice is sometimes laughable, would anyone else have played Chong on Saturday?
He has seemingly lost his ability to motivate the team, or were our last two home defeats bad luck.
We have no tactics, other than to play keep ball at the back and playing across the front of the opposition.
We do things at such a slow pace, we give any team time to get organised.
Etc.etc.

It will take braver owners to change managers after what happened last year, but it has to be done as I cannot see us doing anything other than tread water if he stays in charge.
Love him to prove me wrong

Whereas, I think the issue is much bigger than that. It's the total refusal, ignorance to, or inability to modernise the hierarchy of the club. It's as though Bettis is comfy and has no reason to change our structuring. Any decent calibre, young up-and-coming coaches will be exactly that, head coaches. Not managers who want to manage most aspects of the club. Selles proved that. Any coach will need an infrastructure around them. Until the club develop that infrastructure, we will continue to fall further behind.

In the meantime, Wilder will work to eek what value and performance value he can get out of a managed decline of the squad, to keep us vaguely competitive or relevant.

If the aim is to buy ourselves more time to modernise the club and we want someone capable to be main man whilst we do that, I would trust no one more than Wilder.

 

[Aston max]

Honestly wilders first spell I actually admired what he did for the club but I personally think he's not moved on with his tactics, player recruitment and attitude. Second spell he went into the championship season with a really good squad and honestly messed up the selection/substitutions in the final and the last few games.
I'd be really unhappy if he's still here after June COH are hopefully looking at a restructure ( though I won't hold my breath !! ) we need a good experienced DOF and a good coach . No comical AI recruitment.
I've been following united for 65 years and now know a cup,established top flight football and maybe a European campaign won't happen in my lifetime.

 

[Dkc]

We were within a whisker of promotion to the PL less than twelve months ago. Wilder's been in management for 25 years and has had far more successes than failures.

To suggest that he's suddenly become a shit manager and the 'game has overtaken him' based on this season alone seems a bit of a stretch - especially given the position we were in when he was appointed.

 

[KMC-1889]

We were within a whisker of promotion to the PL less than twelve months ago. Wilder's been in management for 25 years and has had far more successes than failures.

To suggest that he's suddenly become a shit manager and the 'game has overtaken him' based on this season alone seems a bit of a stretch - especially given the position we were in when he was appointed.

3 promotions in 25 years? Last one of those nearly a decade ago?

 

[Keen Blade]

I personally think he's done enough to get the summer but I'm extremely concerned with what we've seen lately and his transfer record in recent years.

I think the main issue going forward is how much emotion he sparks in people. People defend and attack him much more passionately than if we had any other manager due to everything that has gone before. The amount of unwavering support he gets pushes the people who think he's past his best into more extreme views. Then their views in turn push the people who love him into an even more stubborn position.

I don't think it's healthy having a manager who has this much of a hold on so many fans and I don't think we'll ever be truly together with him as boss unless he achieves something remarkable. That's unfair on him and we can't expect a promotion next season but because so many don't want him here, that's what he's going to have to do to get everybody on side. On the other hand, if he did leave then loads of the fan base would be hankering from him back for years. It's a really unhealthy situation for the club and I don't know how it ends in a satisfactory way for everybody.

That's bang on
The whole club is in an "unhealthy" state

Bit late to the conversation but if Wilder goes who replaces him? I'm all for change if it's for an improvement, but who improves Wilder that a) is available and b) would actually come? Change for change's sake without a strong candidate lined up gives you someone like Selles, who was a complete and utter disaster. If there's someone like Dyche available and willing then fair enough, but sacking Wilder than THEN start looking for a replacement like last time is pure madness

Start looking ?
They never bothered.
They saw the 0-3 for Hull and "someone" told them Selles was a good manager.
That was the entire selection process to run the footy side of a Co. they'd just paid £100m for

At that stage I guarantee you they didn't know a DoF from a Department of Fisheries ,
Nor did they have a clue what was required to be a successful old-style manager , unsupported by a DoF type of structure

The numpties.

 

[Dkc]

3 promotions in 25 years? Last one of those nearly a decade ago?

Five

2001/2 Alfreton Town - promotion
2009/10 Oxford Utd - promotion
2014-15 Northampton Town - promotion
2016-17 Sheffield United - promotion
2018-19 Sheffield United - promotion
2019-20 Sheffield United - 9th in PL
2020-21 Sheffield United - relegation from PL
2024 Sheffield United - relegation from PL (appointed Dec 2023)
2024-25 Sheffield United - play off final

 

[Keen Blade]

Whereas, I think the issue is much bigger than that. It's the total refusal, ignorance to, or inability to modernise the hierarchy of the club. It's as though Bettis is comfy and has no reason to change our structuring. Any decent calibre, young up-and-coming coaches will be exactly that, head coaches. Not managers who want to manage most aspects of the club. Selles proved that. Any coach will need an infrastructure around them. Until the club develop that infrastructure, we will continue to fall further behind.

In the meantime, Wilder will work to eek what value and performance value he can get out of a managed decline of the squad, to keep us vaguely competitive or relevant.

If the aim is to buy ourselves more time to modernise the club and we want someone capable to be main man whilst we do that, I would trust no one more than Wilder.

If only our owners were that far-sighted.
My fear is that they've crawled so far up CW's posterior they'll not see daylight until he shits himself , like he did in 20/21.

 

[bertieblade]

Our owners need to get into the premier league as that is where the money is, especially when clubs run their own tv channels as an alternative to sky.
They have not made their money by ignoring experience

 

[Nick Jansky]

Five

2001/2 Alfreton Town - promotion
2009/10 Oxford Utd - promotion
2014-15 Northampton Town - promotion
2016-17 Sheffield United - promotion
2018-19 Sheffield United - promotion
2019-20 Sheffield United - 9th in PL
2020-21 Sheffield United - relegation from PL
2024 Sheffield United - relegation from PL (appointed Dec 2023)
2024-25 Sheffield United - play off final

Three in the EFL.

Alfreton won promotion from the Northern Counties East League, a level below where Stocksbridge have played this season. It’s on the CV, but managers nobody has ever heard of have won multiple promotions at that level.

 

[Dkc]

OK Alfreton were in a lowly league so maybe that doesn't count.

But also worth noting that in his 25 years in management Wilder has never suffered a relegation in the EFL, or even come close.

 

[AWetFlannel]

We were within a whisker of promotion to the PL less than twelve months ago. Wilder's been in management for 25 years and has had far more successes than failures.

To suggest that he's suddenly become a shit manager and the 'game has overtaken him' based on this season alone seems a bit of a stretch - especially given the position we were in when he was appointed.

You see the same attitude with fans at every club. Last season at QPR Cifuentes was a young, up and coming, tactically astute manager. Everyone thinks he's the dog's bollocks, a relegated clubs comes and snaps him up. He does a poor job, now he's a terrible manager that doesn't have a clue, had success nowhere and should count himself lucky to land on a job in league 1.

Coventry have just hit 92 points and can finish on 95 max, but football has passed Wilder by and Lampard should be England or Chelsea manager again, despite us getting 92 last season.

 

[Dkc]

You see the same attitude with fans at every club. Last season at QPR Cifuentes was a young, up and coming, tactically astute manager. Everyone thinks he's the dog's bollocks, a relegated clubs comes and snaps him up. He does a poor job, now he's a terrible manager that doesn't have a clue, had success nowhere and should count himself lucky to land on a job in league 1.

Coventry have just hit 92 points and can finish on 95 max, but football has passed Wilder by and Lampard should be England or Chelsea manager again, despite us getting 92 last season.

92 points would have seen us easily promoted this season. Possibly as champions.

 

[I should coco]

Three in the EFL.

Alfreton won promotion from the Northern Counties East League, a level below where Stocksbridge have played this season. It’s on the CV, but managers nobody has ever heard of have won multiple promotions at that level.

So are you suggesting he shouldn't have started at the bottom then?

As a predominantly lower league player, he didn't have the luxury of being dropped into a big club, ala Gerrard, Lampard or Rooney. It would seem that you give no credit for him learning his trade in the lower leagues.

 

[Old Programme seller]

If only our owners were that far-sighted.
My fear is that they've crawled so far up CW's posterior they'll not see daylight until he shits himself , like he did in 20/21.

The owners will use Wilder until they get rid of him same as any manager who comes in

 

[Upton_Blade]

92 points would have seen us easily promoted this season. Possibly as champions.

I can guarantee you which set of fans has had the more enjoyable season. Coventry fans this season or us last irrespective of how the season ended.

 

[Dkc]

I can guarantee you which set of fans has had the more enjoyable season. Coventry fans this season or us last irrespective of how the season ended.

Agreed, given that Coventry haven't been on the top flight for a quarter of a century, and have been in the fourth tier and ground sharing with Northampton since then. Their fans will have had a fantastic season. We'd be the same if that had happened to us.

 

[Upton_Blade]

Agreed, given that Coventry haven't been on the top flight for a quarter of a century, and have been in the fourth tier and ground sharing with Northampton since then. Their fans will have had a fantastic season. We'd be the same if that had happened to us.

Nice deflection but you knew exactly what I meant

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

We were within a whisker of promotion to the PL less than twelve months ago. Wilder's been in management for 25 years and has had far more successes than failures.

To suggest that he's suddenly become a shit manager and the 'game has overtaken him' based on this season alone seems a bit of a stretch - especially given the position we were in when he was appointed.

And, managing a downgraded squad compared to last year...

 

[JohnDenver]

But also worth noting that in his 25 years in management Wilder has never suffered a relegation in the EFL, or even come close.

I think that’s a huge consideration.

Leicester and Luton have shown that a declining club with a theoretically strong squad can suddenly drop off a cliff. West Brom were fortunate to survive this season having appointed a duff manager. Norwich similarly until they turned to Clement. Changing managers is a major spin of the wheel. Either do it in extremis or after much planning and preparation.

Basically if anyone in this debate thinks there’s an unarguable case to sack Wilder right now, then they’re just grinding an axe. And equally, if anyone thinks we don’t need an eye on a post-Wilder existence, they’re being negligent. Suspect 70% of folk sit between those two extremes.

 

[S64 Blade]

My concern is how badly we are ending seasons under him.

We’ve won once in the final 10 games of this season (one still to play of course).

Last season, after being first and second for the majority of the season, we only won 4 of the last 10, which ultimately cost us gaining automatic promotion.

If we’d have won a few more of the first batch our final ten in March, we’d have been a whisker away from the play-offs in this poor league.