The Academy- is it worth it?

[Silent Blade]

I have a few questions, could anyone answer them please?

I don't know what a football academy is.

Is it a full-time 'school' for talented footballers or is it more like an after school club?

The two (it was three but one got released at 15) SWFC Academy players in my son's year at school are excused from school on Tuesday and Thursday afternoon to do football training at Middlewood Road and then after that they do their school homework at the Academy. They have been doing that since they went into u14s. Not sure if it is the same for u9s to u13s but I think not

 

[metalblade]

Our fan base is still very good but the longer we are in the lower divisions, it will shrink so your excitement over our Academy will become irrelevant.

No excitement about the Academy here I tend to agree it is a waste of time until we are in the Premiership and we too are able to cherry pick talent from lower clubs.

I don't know how long your long term is, but I can't see how anyone can argue that over the last generation Blackburn have not been vastly more successful than us and that shows no signs of changing.

That is not the argument, you are missing the point without a rich benefactor the likes of Blackburn and Wigan are nothing clubs one from a place famed for egg chasers the other from a place who's only claim to fame is a line in a song berating the 10,000 holes in the towns roads. What actually did they ever win before 1980 ? All this success you speak of and we can even now still more than match their crowds.

 

[Silent Blade]

No excitement about the Academy here I tend to agree it is a waste of time until we are in the Premiership and we too are able to cherry pick talent from lower clubs.
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Agree with that but I still think the EPPP is wrong and very unfair to FL clubs. I Dont think Crewe's Academy (now level 2) will be as good as it was

 

[metalblade]

Agree with that but I still think the EPPP is wrong and very unfair to FL clubs. I Dont think Crewe's Academy (now level 2) will be as good as it was

I think everyone agrees it is unfair apart from those in the Premiership

 

[judge]

As far as I am aware, boys connected to academies still have to attend a normal school until they are 16. They just get attached to academies rather than going to sixth form college or whatever.

The money they will get as academy scholars will be a pittance, so it won't be a case of them turning into arses because they can flash the cash. Insofar as there is a problem with inflated egos it seems at least partially inevitable given that they have been taken on by an academy in the face of so much competition. But then, if they didn't have huge self confidence in the first place it;s unlikely they would have been taken on by the academy.

The lad I know works for the blackburn academy and the kids there dont go to school, they dont live with their parents either they live with foster parents who take all they're washing to the club, the kids have all their meals cooked at the club by a top chef

 

[grafikhaus]

People I know who work on the education side of the academy system say it is little surprising they produce such collosal twats as they have everything done for them and are pampered beyond belief with no realistic grasp of the outside world

I wonder why are they 'a little surprised', Judge? They sound like our politicians - all from Eton, having their arses wiped for them, never dipped a toe in the real world. And all colossal twats.

 

[Darren]

The lad I know works for the blackburn academy and the kids there dont go to school, they dont live with their parents either they live with foster parents who take all they're washing to the club, the kids have all their meals cooked at the club by a top chef

I would have thought that not living with your parents would be a very quick way to grow up. Most 16 year old boys would have their meals cooked and their washing done by their mums anyway.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

No excitement about the Academy here I tend to agree it is a waste of time until we are in the Premiership and we too are able to cherry pick talent from lower clubs.


That is not the argument, you are missing the point without a rich benefactor the likes of Blackburn and Wigan are nothing clubs one from a place famed for egg chasers the other from a place who's only claim to fame is a line in a song berating the 10,000 holes in the towns roads. What actually did they ever win before 1980 ? All this success you speak of and we can even now still more than match their crowds.

Two league titles and six FA cups.

 

[metalblade]

Two league titles and six FA cups.

The last cup win being in 1928 so much like ourselves won fuck all .

 

[Bladesway]

When we were in the Premiership and players wanted to come to SUFC because we were a well run club then I would say it was a good policy and well worth the money. I'm surprised anyone can say right now whether it is a force for good or otherwise. As for "we should have it for the community", are you serious? A football club is focussed around money and nothing else. Those who think otherwise are lost in the mists of time. I wish it were different but I'm afraid thats not the reality. Thanks to the EPL there are 20 players and the rest just make up the numbers.

Who has our academy provided us with that has either been sold for profit or enhanced the first team. They are surely the two reasons you have one.

I can think of Lowton, Harry, Kyles x 2, Long, Slew and thats about it. Quinn was brought into the structure along with his brother(s) if memory serves me right. There has been a lot of dross that was going to be the next big thing but then went off to Torquay etc and never came back.

Then you have to think of the cost to set it up and run it. Who actually knows that? Not us thats for sure but if that money had been pumped into the first team perhaps firstly we would have got promoted to the Premiership earlier and stayed there longer. The money from that alone would have been possibly into hundreds of millions of pounds.

All that said I think I am a supporter of it overall, to a point. No one wants to come and play for the academy of a third division side, it only becomes an attraction at Championship or higher level, so for now I guess we are getting the droppings off the table even at under 12 level etc. So we must get into the Championship to make it function again otherwise its going to lose us money hand over fist.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I think the sales of Jagielka, naughton, walker, slew, lowton, mellis, Quinn, sharp et al have more than paid for the cost of running the academy, plus the playing time we get from them.

So yes, I think it is worthwhile.

Third division football suggests otherwise?
Not sure what the answer is but bringing kids thru' to sell them to cover the cost of bringing them thru' is not the answer based on league position.

 

[Grecian2000]

Third division football suggests otherwise?

If we'd have had Messi and Ronaldo through the academy we'd still have sold them and ended up with Doyle and Flynn.

As I said earlier in the thread, I have no idea if the academy is cost effective (or effective at all for that matter) but I'm pretty certain our ability in the open transfer market has been nothing short of criminal. and that is why third division football is our prize.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

The last cup win being in 1928 so much like ourselves won fuck all .

Well yes, if you ignore every trophy they've ever won because it was either too long ago or too recent then they are a nothing club with no footballing tradition who've won f*** all.

 

[Darren]

Well yes, if you ignore every trophy they've ever won because it was either too long ago or too recent then they are a nothing club with no footballing tradition who've won f*** all.

Indeed. I think if you asked anyone with any knowledge of football as to who were the club with the greater football tradition in SUFC and Blackburn, most people would say the latter. They had never been out of the top two divisions until 1971 and have had (I believe) a grand total of 3 seasons in the 3rd tier (as opposed to our 8 and counting). Unlike us, they have never been in the 4th tier and have won 10 major trophies to our 5.

QED?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

If we'd have had Messi and Ronaldo through the academy we'd still have sold them and ended up with Doyle and Flynn.

As I said earlier in the thread, I have no idea if the academy is cost effective (or effective at all for that matter) but I'm pretty certain our ability in the open transfer market has been nothing short of criminal. and that is why third division football is our prize.

And someone would have had the pair for £3.5M - not each either.

 

[BushBlade]

Am I right in thinking every academy is part funded by the FA? Isn't that how the EPPP got voted through; effectively the FA said vote for it and we'll increase funding, don't vote for it and we'll reduce it?

So what is the net cost of the academy?

I think it's being questioned now because we haven't produced a player for a year or so. In my opinion, that's not unusual. It's also disappointing how few of our FA Youth Cup side have progressed to the first team but again, that's not unusual. The lower leagues are full of players who were brilliant schoolboys.

I think the first team has been sufficiently resourced over the past couple of years but for a number of reasons has underachieved. It's not the fault of the academy. An academy can only ever supplement a first team, you can't build a side from it but if you're lucky, it will produce the occasional quality player who a club like us could never otherwise attract.

Could Southampton have signed a player like Lallana or could Derby have signed Hughes?

 

[metalblade]

Indeed. I think if you asked anyone with any knowledge of football as to who were the club with the greater football tradition in SUFC and Blackburn, most people would say the latter. They had never been out of the top two divisions until 1971 and have had (I believe) a grand total of 3 seasons in the 3rd tier (as opposed to our 8 and counting). Unlike us, they have never been in the 4th tier and have won 10 major trophies to our 5.

QED?

The great thing about stats are the way they can be manipulated to support any argument. If we want to go way back in time they won two League titles before the 1st World War, five of their six cup wins were in the 1800's before SUFC were even 3 years old, I wonder how many people are alive that witnessed even one of these great feats (they would need to be 105 to have even the vaguest recollection) So the facts are since before the First World War or in effect in living memory Blackburn Rovers can muster one cup win in 1928 until their next trophy in 1995 near on 80 years with one cup win to show for it, close on 40 of those years in the second and third divisions, close to 30 consecutive years outside the top division. Until Jack Walker pumped mega millions into the club (sums we can still only dream of) Blackburn Rovers were a shite club from a dingy Lancashire mill town, even after winning the title in 95 and the mickey mouse cup in 02, a few trips to Europe they still can only attract around 20,000 fans for all their big spending. BIG club my arse. Small town club who had a big backer.

 

[Darren]

The great thing about stats are the way they can be manipulated to support any argument. If we want to go way back in time they won two League titles before the 1st World War, five of their six cup wins were in the 1800's before SUFC were even 3 years old, I wonder how many people are alive that witnessed even one of these great feats (they would need to be 105 to have even the vaguest recollection) So the facts are since before the First World War or in effect in living memory Blackburn Rovers can muster one cup win in 1928 until their next trophy in 1995 near on 80 years with one cup win to show for it, close on 40 of those years in the second and third divisions, close to 30 consecutive years outside the top division. Until Jack Walker pumped mega millions into the club (sums we can still only dream of) Blackburn Rovers were a shite club from a dingy Lancashire mill town, even after winning the title in 95 and the mickey mouse cup in 02, a few trips to Europe they still can only attract around 20,000 fans for all their big spending. BIG club my arse. Small town club who had a big backer.

Blackburn are indeed from a small Lancs mill town and not from the 4th biggest city in England. Which makes the fact that both pre and post Taylor they have done better than us all the more impressive, wouldn't you say?

 

[metalblade]

Blackburn are indeed from a small Lancs mill town and not from the 4th biggest city in England. Which makes the fact that both pre and post Taylor they have done better than us all the more impressive, wouldn't you say?

I'd say it is impressive what a club can do with a owner prepared to pump mega millions into the first team

 

[Darren]

I'd say it is impressive what a club can do with a owner prepared to pump mega millions into the first team

Basically there are 5 rough periods in the United/Blackburn relationship:

1892-1934: United and Blackburn both big clubs, with Blackburn probably slightly bigger
1934-1966: United and Blackburn both become D1/D2 yo-yo clubs, neither wins anything, pretty much equal in status
1966-79: Blackburn become a D2 club who have a spell in D3, United continue to yo-yo between D1 and D2. United the bigger club
1979-90: Blackburn a decent D2 club, United struggle to stay out of the lower divisions. Blackburn the bigger club.
1990 - the Walker millions kick in, Blackburn easily the bigger club

So there was basically only been 13 years when United where clearly a bigger club than Blackburn

 

[metalblade]

Basically there are 5 rough periods in the United/Blackburn relationship:

1892-1934: United and Blackburn both big clubs, with Blackburn probably slightly bigger
1934-1966: United and Blackburn both become D1/D2 yo-yo clubs, neither wins anything, pretty much equal in status
1966-79: Blackburn become a D2 club who have a spell in D3, United continue to yo-yo between D1 and D2. United the bigger club
1979-90: Blackburn a decent D2 club, United struggle to stay out of the lower divisions. Blackburn the bigger club.
1990 - the Walker millions kick in, Blackburn easily the bigger club

So there was basically only been 13 years when United where clearly a bigger club than Blackburn

Kinda reinforces my point that the status of both Wigan and Blackburn has been skewed by mega millions pumped into both clubs. SUFC have never had such investment and so have never benefited from the vast sums paid to perennial Premiership survivors and also rans over the last 20 years or so. (shows how far we have fallen also)