Southampton

[CarlMcBlade]

Sorry,but that is a typical Wednesday statement. Their support and respect has grown immensely over a few years,they both have excellent football teams,stadiums full every week,no matter how big they are,I’d like us to be on their level sometime soon and have the respect other teams give them.

Yes, the football landscape changes rapidly. The mindset that look favourably on traditional clubs like us is gone. If you spend too much time outside the Prem you’re yesterdays news. These days, If you can get the likes, hits and subscribers and eyeballs of the world focused on you…That constitutes being a “big club.”

 

[Massive Attackers]

I think it's the change to 5 substitutes, means the big clubs, with strong squads can change half their team if they need to.

Wilder voted against it at the time, and he was right.

If the league want to redress some of the imbalance (they don't), then move it back to 3 subs.

A number of times last season we competed until around the 70th minute, subs came on for the opponents, we couldn't match the strength off the bench and we conceded and lost the game.

Absolutely this.

Why not much is made of it baffles me.

 

[McGrath]

Sour grapes. Good old Bomo, they have a go. Have more seasons in the PL than SU !

Financial Doping pal... That's how they've got their. A Russian Oligarch and now a billionaire yank

 

[metalblade]

They deserve everything they are getting, they have got there and stayed there and making a team like Arsenal look like muppets the other week. It doesn’t mean because you have a rich owner you are guaranteed success,it has to be earned.

Been bought not earned yet there are teams in the Championship who have nearly 30,000 every week some more than that and they can't establish themselves in the top league, the game has gone crazy. To compete you need a budget of a 3rd world country don't ever try telling me this is good for football fans who support their local teams all it is good for is TV companies.

 

[HOT CURRIE 10]

Been bought not earned yet there are teams in the Championship who have nearly 30,000 every week some more than that and they can't establish themselves in the top league, the game has gone crazy. To compete you need a budget of a 3rd world country don't ever try telling me this is good for football fans who support their local teams all it is good for is TV companies.

There are a few clubs outside the premier with billionaire owners,Bournemouth and Brentford have been run properly up to now and from what I’ve read on this board,we should have followed their model. Do you subscribe to sky,virgin,tnt etc to help the tv companies ?

 

[SouthStandGBlock]

The question of how big a club is, is an interesting one. Traditionally it was based on size of attendance. Hence our porcine neighbours still classify themselves as a big club.

The reality for most EPL clubs (and therefore bigger clubs by league position), is that most income is generated outside of attendance money, it is gained from TV, sponsorship, commercial income and player sales.

So Brentford, Brighton, Bournemouth, Palace etc use this model to stay in the EPL.

For most teams, it's not about size of attendance anymore, it's how you spend your TV money, and how you develop your players to flip them to the top 6 clubs.

We can do the same, but it will take money, and also we need to expect and deal with some failed gambles (like Brewster). We are off to a flying start with the current crop of academy lads, but we will need to sell them at some point to stay in the EPL (assuming we get there), and to get the right price for them. Bournemouth, Palace, Brighton, Brentford do this all the time, and Southampton also did it for years.

 

[Stockport blade]

Absolutely this.

Why not much is made of it baffles me.

Spot on. Add on an additional 5-6 more minutes injury time to give them full effect and you’ll see all underdog stories quashed. See spurs 2023

 

[HOT CURRIE 10]

Yes, the football landscape changes rapidly. The mindset that look favourably on traditional clubs like us is gone. If you spend too much time outside the Prem you’re yesterdays news. These days, If you can get the likes, hits and subscribers and eyeballs of the world focused on you…That constitutes being a “big club.”

There are only a few ‘big’ clubs in Britain and half of them are plastics. Some pretend and hope (S6) . We were weekly news last season because of how shit we were. In reality,only Sheffield and local areas care about our clubs, I don’t care about anyone else and that’s good enough for me.

 

[HOT CURRIE 10]

I'm with the earlier poster.
Bournemouth have never been football team. The fact that some corpulent US investor, chooses to fund a town the size of Rovrum, is the point. Otherwise, they'd still be pointing out to sea, watching the daily lobster catch.

So you would like the see the premiership full of “bigger “ teams who command bigger attendances and have a bigger name? I think I’m on the wrong board.

 

[bornablade]

I think our own perceptions of 'bigger clubs' arrive from how long we've all been watching football. As someone who has been watching the game since the 1960's I see Bournmouth, Brentford and even Brighton as clubs that belonged in the 3rd and 4th tiers. That's not being respectful because I wouldn't refer to them as a small club.

Reading are an interesting case. Under Coppell they enjoyed Premier league success and their Madjeski stadium was sold out. Now they are in a lower tier and their attendances reflect a club that woudl struggle to call itself a big club.

If Brighton and Brentford fell down the leagues would their current supporter base remain the same or similar?

 

[Proper Blade]

So you would like the see the premiership full of “bigger “ teams who command bigger attendances and have a bigger name? I think I’m on the wrong board.

I would much rather watch matches at Bramall Lane or the Stadium of Light than Dean Court or the Amex, yes. Who wouldn't?

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I read an article a while back which said in ground attendances are only there because it makes the TV product better... So in terms of size of ground, I'm not sure they really care so long as it's full and the crowd aren't singing about how shit Sky TV is....

This notion about 'big clubs' and 'deserves' is absolute nonsense. So long as the big clubs have cannon fodder to beat, steal players from, enhance their product to sell and vote in their favour for any changes - they couldn't care less if spots 12 and below in the PL are Bournemouth, Sheff Utd, Port Vale or Hallam FC.....

 

[AWetFlannel]

Controversial opinion here.

Firstly, I’m very happy with the job wilder did back when and has done since he came back.

However, if we are to become a premier league team for the long term like Brighton, Brentford or Bournemouth we will need to become a team that plays the type of football they do.
Possession based, fast athletic and skilful players, most likely sourced from abroad.
We aren’t going to do that picking up scraps from the UK and getting by through passion and “proper Sheff Utd performances”.
Whether that’s with Wilder is the question.

If it’s going to happen it has to start this window, and regardless of whether promoted or not it has to continue in every window thereafter with well scouted players who fit the necessary criterion.
Loans aren’t the answer, it’s building steadily and consistently while maintaining a group and gradually improving year on year.

Do we believe Wilder has that in him to be that manager? Or will he struggle to change from his current way picking up certain types of player?

When Brighton went up under Houghton, in the PL they played incredibly defensive, pragmatic football. Brentford completely changed their ultra possession based style to a very direct, hit big Ivan upfront and play off him, 5 at the back approach.

After seasons and seasons of Prem money and huge investment, they change the style.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

A visual representation of how football fans think.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

The question of how big a club is, is an interesting one. Traditionally it was based on size of attendance. Hence our porcine neighbours still classify themselves as a big club.

The reality for most EPL clubs (and therefore bigger clubs by league position), is that most income is generated outside of attendance money, it is gained from TV, sponsorship, commercial income and player sales.

So Brentford, Brighton, Bournemouth, Palace etc use this model to stay in the EPL.

For most teams, it's not about size of attendance anymore, it's how you spend your TV money, and how you develop your players to flip them to the top 6 clubs.

We can do the same, but it will take money, and also we need to expect and deal with some failed gambles (like Brewster). We are off to a flying start with the current crop of academy lads, but we will need to sell them at some point to stay in the EPL (assuming we get there), and to get the right price for them. Bournemouth, Palace, Brighton, Brentford do this all the time, and Southampton also did it for years.

Hammer, nail, head.

 

[Jan Age]

The question of how big a club is, is an interesting one. Traditionally it was based on size of attendance. Hence our porcine neighbours still classify themselves as a big club.

The reality for most EPL clubs (and therefore bigger clubs by league position), is that most income is generated outside of attendance money, it is gained from TV, sponsorship, commercial income and player sales.

So Brentford, Brighton, Bournemouth, Palace etc use this model to stay in the EPL.

For most teams, it's not about size of attendance anymore, it's how you spend your TV money, and how you develop your players to flip them to the top 6 clubs.

We can do the same, but it will take money, and also we need to expect and deal with some failed gambles (like Brewster). We are off to a flying start with the current crop of academy lads, but we will need to sell them at some point to stay in the EPL (assuming we get there), and to get the right price for them. Bournemouth, Palace, Brighton, Brentford do this all the time, and Southampton also did it for years.

Yep

Let’s say we were promoted to the prem and we were offered the following for our current drop of youngsters:

£25 million Arblaster (if he hadn’t been injured)
£10 million peck
£15 million Brooks
£10 million One

That’s £60 million + Chuck £60 million of the promotion money = £120 million

Or we could Chuck loads of the promotion money and get £180 million

That’s a decent chunk t spend on more established /experienced players to keep us on the prem…

We should also have other youngsters lined up from out scouting network to come in and replace (should be done already)

 

[metalblade]

Say what you like but I'd much rather watch football played between genuine "big" clubs, give me games against Birmingham City, Bolton, Stoke, Derby, Portsmouth, Coventry, Norwich, WBA, Boro, Burnley, Sunderland, Leeds and Mittwoch all of who can easily command crowds twice the size of piss ant clubs like Bournmouth and Brentford. Take away the billionaires and these clubs soon drop to their natural level of league one just like Wigan and Reading have done. You could possibly add Fulham to the list too they are not real clubs hardly anyone would miss them and their natural sub 10,000 fans if they fell down the leagues.

 

[Blade56]

The fact we are in that list twice is an embarrassment to be quite frank.

I think 2 entries on the worst list is more embarrassing than anything really.

It proves unless you are prepared to speculate and take risks a la Forest it’s unsustainable

 

[Blade56]

Yep

Let’s say we were promoted to the prem and we were offered the following for our current drop of youngsters:

£25 million Arblaster (if he hadn’t been injured)
£10 million peck
£15 million Brooks
£10 million One

That’s £60 million + Chuck £60 million of the promotion money = £120 million

Or we could Chuck loads of the promotion money and get £180 million

That’s a decent chunk t spend on more established /experienced players to keep us on the prem…

We should also have other youngsters lined up from out scouting network to come in and replace (should be done already)

Alternative view on future prospects

 

[metalblade]

It proves unless you are prepared to speculate and take risks a la Forest it’s unsustainable

I'd rephrase speculate with cheat

 

[Blade56]

I'd rephrase speculate with cheat

That was tempered with “take risks”. Imo they calculated they could absorb a points deduction for ffp violations at the expense of clubs like us that couldn’t/wouldn’t spend big

 

[McGrath]

Agree.....check the history of football clubs and it shows they are at a similar level to Rotherham and Doncaster.
Not quite as big as Rotherham but slightly bigger than Doncaster

The stats show that Rotherham have a bigger historical average gate and more seasons in the top 2 divisions.

AFCB have spent 14 seasons in the top 2 division and 80 seasons in the bottom 2 divisions.
History shows their normal level isn't even in the Championship. They've spent more seasons in division 4 than in the PL or the Championship.

The Bournemouth success is false/ contrived and not organic/ natural.
I suppose they are a modern day version of AFC Wimbledon where a tiny club ends up in the top flight but they are being bankrolled to stay there.

They can't even claim to be the new Wimbledon, no one chucked money at Wimbledon because they needed a new hobby. There's something to admire about what the Crazy Gang did. Nothing to admire at Bournemouth.

 

[McGrath]

Every club needs to be bankrolled to stay there. Thing’s change, if Bournemouth stay in the top flight long enough everybody under forty would consider them a Premier league staple, whereas we are seen as that ill equipped Championship club who briefly comes visiting every so often.

We've got to the Premier League a few times now under our own steam and over the last thirty odd years we've had good cup runs and got to cup semi finals too. That's usually despite owners and with no funds. We've done these things because of the club we are.

Bournemouth would never ever achieve that with the backing we've had. They'd still be League Two

 

[CarlMcBlade]

We've got to the Premier League a few times now under our own steam and over the last thirty odd years we've had good cup runs and got to cup semi finals too. That's usually despite owners and with no funds. We've done these things because of the club we are.

Bournemouth would never ever achieve that with the backing we've had. They'd still be League Two

Getting there, and staying there are totally different tasks altogether. We will need the same levels of Bournemouth investment to even stand a chance of staying in the Premier league…That’s how that crazy league works.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Artificial fans are those who decide to follow a top premier league club just because they're successful and famous.

It's possible Bournemouth have gained a few glory hunters since they reached the premier league but most of their fans have watched them play in league 2, I really don't see how that's artificial or soulless. There's no glamour to be had at that level: you're a fan because you're from the area, or because of family or because you genuinely love the club.

Having a small old ground is a sign of authenticity not artificiality. Its the out of town concrete bowls that lack character.

One of my friends is a lifelong Bournemouth fan and is just as passionate and genuine a fan as any other supporter.

If your point is that they benefitted from a rich owner then it's almost impossible not to make it without that these days, and the fans don't get to choose their owner either so it's not their fault.

I totally agree, It’s the plastic Mancs (both) and Scousers you find every pub in the land, that I look down on with distain…Not Bournemouth.

 

[Houston_Blade]

A number of times last season we competed until around the 70th minute

1 is a number so you’re spot on!

 

[Houston_Blade]

Nothing to admire at Bournemouth.

If it wasn’t for Bournemouth then Kieffer wouldn’t be half the player he is nowadays, we should thank them daily!

 

[Bartleby]

I think 2 entries on the worst list is more embarrassing than anything really.

Not bothered or embarrassed about who's worst on a list after 20 games. On the worst 20 clubs list at the end of the season it's Sunderland 3, Blades 2, Norwich 2, and Watford 2. At least we've been involved in it in the last 20 years, unlike some. You've got to be in it to lose it.

 

[McGrath]

If it wasn’t for Bournemouth then Kieffer wouldn’t be half the player he is nowadays, we should thank them daily!

Would he be 3 and a half foot tall?

 

[SwissBlade]

Would he be 3 and a half foot tall?

2'8" when they signed him and Upper body only. No Legs