Injuries

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

I’m not sure they feel different to me at all.

I agree with the ‘small squad’ sentiment. The issue is we signed Campbell (fitness issues), Souttar (hardly played) and Moore (flogged to death). These were additions to the thin squad we already had. It’s unrealistic to expect these players to sustain a full Championship season.

Add to that one of our good youngsters getting a long term injury, Brewster being flakey as fuck, Davies being a ‘bonus’ whilst he’s fit, RND coming off a long lay-off.

It’s clear why we’re suffering, we’ll just have to muddle through and hope we don’t sign crocks in January, although I’m not sure any loan signings will be anything other than out of favour, out of fitness squad fillers from PL teams?!

This, this is the major worry for me. An already thin squad is now increasingly threadbare and so we're putting a LOT of minutes into players with previous injury records. It's absolutely ludicrous. We can't wait at all, to get new players through the door.

Seriki
Souttar
Shackleton
Arblaster
Souza
Rak-Sakyi
Campbell

I might be looking at things through a United-centric lens, but do other squads have to compete with this? Or do they quietly bumble along with a fairly stable level of player availability??

 

[Blademan89]

This, this is the major worry for me. An already thin squad is now increasingly threadbare and so we're putting a LOT of minutes into players with previous injury records. It's absolutely ludicrous. We can't wait at all, to get new players through the door.

I might be looking at things through a United-centric lens, but do other squads have to compete with this? Or do they quietly bumble along with a fairly stable level of player availability??

I think the likes of Leeds and burnley have had their injuries too, but difference is they have a quality depth squad, having 2 players for each position, where as we don't have anyone but academy players.

These 2 both have squad players that would comfortably get in our starting 11.

We knew it was going to be a slog and the pile up around end of the year wouldnt be good, we needed a massive slice of luck and we had it on a whole most of that 1st half of the season, just seems to have started to run out.

 

[anglian blade]

I listened to the interview and he wasn't saying they would all be back by the Norwich game, and that we need to get to the stage where we have them all back.

 

[Bladesman]

I listened to the interview and he wasn't saying they would all be back by the Norwich game, and that we need to get to the stage where we have them all back.

He seemed to imply a number of players would be back. I doubt all of those mentioned will be back but I found it interesting he named names rather than be vague like he usually is.

 

[Stretch]

I suspect that one statement has gotten everyone's hopes up. Let's hope he is right, on some of the injured players and a signing or two at least.

 

[Revolution]

Shackelton has slotted into the Osborn role perfectly: he is injured now he's needed.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Shackelton has slotted into the Osborn role perfectly: he is injured now he's needed.

The poor thing from our perspective is that he had loads of previous for this.
We signed him for these moments and he's missing. Probably the one bit of poor business we did.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

I think the likes of Leeds and burnley have had their injuries too, but difference is they have a quality depth squad, having 2 players for each position, where as we don't have anyone but academy players.

These 2 both have squad players that would comfortably get in our starting 11.

We knew it was going to be a slog and the pile up around end of the year wouldnt be good, we needed a massive slice of luck and we had it on a whole most of that 1st half of the season, just seems to have started to run out.

And that bad luck risk breeding further misfortune as you ask a limited few to rack up heavier workloads. Signings seriously can't arrive soon enough.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Norwich game sounds like 5/7 back

Seriki
Shackleton
Souza
Rak-Sakyi
Campbell

 

[wizadry]

Norwich game sounds like 5/7 back

Seriki
Shackleton
Souza
Rak-Sakyi
Campbell

I’ve stopped listening to Wilder where injuries are concerned mate, let’s just wait for the squad to be announced for the Norwich game, then we’ll know.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Norwich game sounds like 5/7 back

Seriki
Shackleton
Souza
Rak-Sakyi
Campbell

Cappy often knows bits & bobs and has Souza missing all of January.

Then there's other rumours circulating that JRS and Seriki are both potential long-termers.

Difficult to know what to believe.
I'm still convinced Campbell did his hamstring too.

Either way, with a few hopefully coming in our squad will start to look much better by the end of this month.
Hopefully we can draw a line under a shitty Xmas period and start to compete again.

 

[Cappy]

Cappy often knows bits & bobs and has Souza missing all of January.

Then there's other rumours circulating that JRS and Seriki are both potential long-termers.

Difficult to know what to believe.
I'm still convinced Campbell did his hamstring too.

I don't know anything about injuries, I just got told one thing once about Souttar that was correct (although I speculated something additional that was wrong). But that was pure luck that I was in a whatsapp group temporarily about something different and an ITKer shared a bit.

I used to get a bit of ITK info on incoming transfers but that's out the window with the new owners. I've been told I won't hear anything. I expect all leaky stuff we used to get to be very much tightened up going forward

What I heard about Souza was he'd be likely back for the Derby County game, but that was off Darren Smith, so take that how you want to I actually find him quite reliable.

The Campbell one is baffling. I could understand it being his lower back, at the time. I used to get tight hamstrings and pain manifesting itself in my hamstrings from my lower back issues when I was running a lot. Add to that that he came back out after the game had finished and did warm downs with the other lads. Saw it with my real eyes. I couldn't imagine you'd do that with a hammy issue.

But he's been out way too long for a sore back?

 

[wizadry]

I don't know anything about injuries, I just got told one thing once about Souttar that was correct (although I speculated something additional that was wrong). But that was pure luck that I was in a whatsapp group temporarily about something different and an ITKer shared a bit.

I used to get a bit of ITK info on incoming transfers but that's out the window with the new owners. I've been told I won't hear anything. I expect all leaky stuff we used to get to be very much tightened up going forward

What I heard about Souza was he'd be likely back for the Derby County game, but that was off Darren Smith, so take that how you want to I actually find him quite reliable.

The Campbell one is baffling. I could understand it being his lower back, at the time. I used to get tight hamstrings and pain manifesting itself in my hamstrings from my lower back issues when I was running a lot. Add to that that he came back out after the game had finished and did warm downs with the other lads. Saw it with my real eyes. I couldn't imagine you'd do that with a hammy issue.

But he's been out way too long for a sore back?

….and not one interviewer asked Wilder about him coming off holding his hamstring, is there any point in having interviews anymore? They’re all pretty meaningless questions anyway.

 

[SwissBlade]

….and not one interviewer asked Wilder about him coming off holding his hamstring, is there any point in having interviews anymore? They’re all pretty meaningless questions anyway.

Whats the drama with it? Wilder had said right from after that game that it was his back, that should be enough. It doesn't need some conspiracy that it's anything other than a back injury.

As Cappy said, a back issue can often cause pain and tightness in the likes of the hamstrings

 

[wizadry]

Whats the drama with it? Wilder had said right from after that game that it was his back, that should be enough. It doesn't need some conspiracy that it's anything other than a back injury.

As Cappy said, a back issue can often cause pain and tightness in the likes of the hamstrings

No drama, just wondering why better questions aren’t asked. I watched the game live and he overstretched for a cross in the first half and held his hamstring straight away but was allowed to carry on and he never looked right after it, don’t you find it a bit weird that he’s still out and also JRS was illness at first and now it’s an hamstring injury, surely you can see why eyebrows are raised?

 

[Bladesman]

I don't know anything about injuries, I just got told one thing once about Souttar that was correct (although I speculated something additional that was wrong). But that was pure luck that I was in a whatsapp group temporarily about something different and an ITKer shared a bit.

I used to get a bit of ITK info on incoming transfers but that's out the window with the new owners. I've been told I won't hear anything. I expect all leaky stuff we used to get to be very much tightened up going forward

What I heard about Souza was he'd be likely back for the Derby County game, but that was off Darren Smith, so take that how you want to I actually find him quite reliable.

The Campbell one is baffling. I could understand it being his lower back, at the time. I used to get tight hamstrings and pain manifesting itself in my hamstrings from my lower back issues when I was running a lot. Add to that that he came back out after the game had finished and did warm downs with the other lads. Saw it with my real eyes. I couldn't imagine you'd do that with a hammy issue.

But he's been out way too long for a sore back?

Not good enough! I will be unsubscribing from your patreon now.

 

[Bladesman]

Norwich game sounds like 5/7 back

Seriki
Shackleton
Souza
Rak-Sakyi
Campbell

True he seems to be quite sure about their return:

 

[SwissBlade]

No drama, just wondering why better questions aren’t asked. I watched the game live and he overstretched for a cross in the first half and held his hamstring straight away but was allowed to carry on and he never looked right after it, don’t you find it a bit weird that he’s still out and also JRS was illness at first and now it’s an hamstring injury, surely you can see why eyebrows are raised?

Not sure the point you're making about the questions asked. Wilder was asked after the game and he said it was his back. Direct question asked with a direct answer.

JRS was ill then got injured in training or perhaps had an aggravation or a reaction whilst ill to something that was being managed. Plenty of players wear K-Tape to manage injuries, but you don't always see it.

Anel was suspended then injured in training, rolled his ankle i think.

Seriki also injured in training.

Just because you don't see the injury happen in a game doesn't mean that it hasn't happened in training.

I fail to see why eyebrows are being raised on your side...

 

[wizadry]

Not sure the point you're making about the questions asked. Wilder was asked after the game and he said it was his back. Direct question asked with a direct answer.

JRS was ill then got injured in training or perhaps had an aggravation or a reaction whilst ill to something that was being managed. Plenty of players wear K-Tape to manage injuries, but you don't always see it.

Anel was suspended then injured in training, rolled his ankle i think.

Seriki also injured in training.

Just because you don't see the injury happen in a game doesn't mean that it hasn't happened in training.

I fail to see why eyebrows are being raised on your side...

Thanks for the response, you obviously see part of my point now as you’ve just described it very well, a lot of the injuries are happening in training and almost all of them end up being longer than the timescales stated. Anyway, you don’t see a problem with it and that’s just fine.

 

[Birdwell Blade]

It’s times like these when your Ben Osborn type players are useful

 

[SwissBlade]

Thanks for the response, you obviously see part of my point now as you’ve just described it very well, a lot of the injuries are happening in training and almost all of them end up being longer than the timescales stated. Anyway, you don’t see a problem with it and that’s just fine.

Injuries in training have happened since the beginning of time, so it's hard to eradicate and as i said, the reasons for being out initially may differ from the original absenteeism...

That doesn't mean a manager is a liar or the media aren't asking the right questions, which was your original point.

Injuries are certainly a problem, the type and trends of injuries is also a problem

 

[Nagima]

Once you get hamstring injuries a high percentage will have it reoccur. And the back plays a significant part in it. A back injury could be the cause or your back is a little stiffer and less flexible. It's important that players go through simple warmup routines which warm up the muscles and getting the blood flowing. Once that is done you can stretch and limber up. You have to then maintain that warmth and blood flow.

Hamstrings are also very difficult to assess.
The player may think they are OK but you don't know until you have to sprint at full belt. Or if you are stretching to get a toe at the ball. What I don't get is the amount of players that start to cramp in the last 15 minutes. There appears to be a bit of an imbalance in our fitness in the squad.

 

[wizadry]

Injuries in training have happened since the beginning of time, so it's hard to eradicate and as i said, the reasons for being out initially may differ from the original absenteeism...

That doesn't mean a manager is a liar or the media aren't asking the right questions, which was your original point.

Injuries are certainly a problem, the type and trends of injuries is also a problem

I’m not daft, I know injuries have happened since god was a lad but we do get a fairly proportionate amount you must admit? I don’t think Wilder is lying to us either, I’ve already gone through this with someone else, I think he’s saying things for reasons only known to him, it’s his prerogative what he says and will have reasons for it, I’m sure. It just looks a bit different from the outside looking in that’s all.

 

[SwissBlade]

Once you get hamstring injuries a high percentage will have it reoccur. And the back plays a significant part in it. A back injury could be the cause or your back is a little stiffer and less flexible. It's important that players go through simple warmup routines which warm up the muscles and getting the blood flowing. Once that is done you can stretch and limber up. You have to then maintain that warmth and blood flow.

Hamstrings are also very difficult to assess.
The player may think they are OK but you don't know until you have to sprint at full belt. Or if you are stretching to get a toe at the ball. What I don't get is the amount of players that start to cramp in the last 15 minutes. There appears to be a bit of an imbalance in our fitness in the squad.

We've had Brooks cramp up recently, which is understandable and i think Peck in one game, again with justification given the intensity and number of games lately.

Cramp is not really a sign of fitness imbalance but can be a number or things, electrolytes, dehydration, nutrition related.

 

[wizadry]

We've had Brooks cramp up recently, which is understandable and i think Peck in one game, again with justification given the intensity and number of games lately.

Cramp is not really a sign of fitness imbalance but can be a number or things, electrolytes, dehydration, nutrition related.

It’s amazing COH doesn’t cramp up more often with the work that lad gets through, his work rate is incredible.

 

[SwissBlade]

I’m not daft, I know injuries have happened since god was a lad but we do get a fairly proportionate amount you must admit? I don’t think Wilder is lying to us either, I’ve already gone through this with someone else, I think he’s saying things for reasons only known to him, it’s his prerogative what he says and will have reasons for it, I’m sure. It just looks a bit different from the outside looking in that’s all.

Again not clear on your gripe/ point. What do you mean by "a fairly proportionate amount"? Proportionate to what? previous seasons? other clubs? earlier in the season? I don't get what you want me to agree with or admit

The detail isn't always necessary. As fans we need to know why they're out and when they're expected back, but the soft tissue injuries can be complex and it seems Wilder is giving updates rather than definitive dates

 

[SwissBlade]

It’s amazing COH doesn’t cramp up more often with the work that lad gets through, his work rate is incredible.

Again interested to know why it is amazing?
He looked severely fatigued against Sunderland. Which is unsurprising. I wouldn't be surprised or unsurprised if players cramp or don't cramp

 

[Nagima]

We've had Brooks cramp up recently, which is understandable and i think Peck in one game, again with justification given the intensity and number of games lately.

Cramp is not really a sign of fitness imbalance but can be a number or things, electrolytes, dehydration, nutrition related.

By fitness imbalance in the squad I am referring levels of fitness of the players in the squad. Hamer & Souza earlier in the season both had it.
As professional players they have access to a host of services to support their fitness

Peck I would rest because he has been playing alot. Brooks has no excuse really he has been training with the squad the whole time and has played in a few matches. If he is cramping then he either isn't preparing right or he is not putting in enough work in training.

 

[SwissBlade]

By fitness imbalance in the squad I am referring levels of fitness of the players in the squad. Hamer & Souza earlier in the season both had it.
As professional players they have access to a host of services to support their fitness

Peck I would rest because he has been playing alot. Brooks has no excuse really he has been training with the squad the whole time and has played in a few matches. If he is cramping then he either isn't preparing right or he is not putting in enough work in training.

Ok, thanks, that's clearer.

I'd say that firstly, each player will peak at different times of the season and it will depend on so many factors including their build, position and many other factors.
Hamer and Souza are both very good examples.
Hamer, last season concerned me, he was getting to 60 mins and having issues on a consistent basis that either meant he wasn't finishing games or he was cramping up or both. As the season went on, these issues dissipated and he was finishing games strong, from a fitness perspective. This season he's reaching end of games in a far better state. He's a much more muscular build that some other players so will have different needs. Last season may simply have been something such as a change in nutrition from what he was doing at Coventry.
Souza, last season looked more muscular, physically, this season, whilst still muscular, he looks leaner. He's probably carrying more bulk than he needs for his role and that can also bring other issues, especially if he's doing heavy weight routines in the gym for his hammies, it can impact his pelvis. Some good studies on premier league players and links to injuries from weight routines, i'll try to find.

A very rudimentary summary, but the point is that players will be managed differently with experts, its not an exact science....

Peck can't be rested, not until next week, which i think he will get a rest against cardiff. He'll need to play a part at Watford, purely because of numbers we have.

Brooks has an excuse, he's come into two games and played at a high intensity. He was probably pushed a little further but after his cramping, a number of the players were at the sidelines taking in gels and fluids, which suggests that they were being managed. Again, cramping isn't a sign of poor preparation or undertraining, it could also be over playing. Lots of factors.

I've gone deep into this on training camps for Ironman races before, 7 days in the alps - cycling swimming and running, cramping on a 13km climb up the Col de Ramaz as i waited for my gel to kick in and finishing my last bottle before the top so that i can recover on the descent... it can be managed and a fine line.

But it can also be something as simple as having under or over salted food the night before, slight stomach upset (we know there was illness in the squad too) or it could also be nerves on a big occasion. I know lads who've dialed in their nutrition and training and never had cramp problems in races to then suddenly cramping up. It's not an exact science as i say, from my experience

 

[wizadry]

Again not clear on your gripe/ point. What do you mean by "a fairly proportionate amount"? Proportionate to what? previous seasons? other clubs? earlier in the season? I don't get what you want me to agree with or admit

The detail isn't always necessary. As fans we need to know why they're out and when they're expected back, but the soft tissue injuries can be complex and it seems Wilder is giving updates rather than definitive dates

Again interested to know why it is amazing?
He looked severely fatigued against Sunderland. Which is unsurprising. I wouldn't be surprised or unsurprised if players cramp or don't cramp

I’ll leave you on your way. People will be bored watching it go back and forth.