Stadium Development

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Yes,I don't mind all that,but I'd hate us to move from the Lane.
Aren't City under investigation still?..Maybe it could go tits up for them down the line.
I don't want to move from our ground either, city may have issues coming up who knows? My point is I want to see us progressing and the only way that's going to happen is under a rich owner.
 

I said the same as you a few week back however someone explained they could implement a frame, like a giant goalpost, from 1 end of the Kop to the other.
Apparently other clubs (think someone mentioned Norwich) have used the same design to hold up a roof and it works.
Same design is holding Bramall Lane roof up.
 
The last set of Kop expansion plans that still have current planning permission addresses both your issues.

The Kop would take just 18 months (2 summers + 1 season) to put another 3,200 seats on the back of the Kop
….increasing working capacity to over 34K. Whilst building works take place almost all the Kop remains open….so hardly anyone affected.

Also the concourse will be expanded and fully enclosed with modern and expanded toilets, bars and kiosks.
And the final advantage is the cost….much much cheaper that clearing a site and building a whole new stand. Its not just the cost of the stand, it’s the lost match ticket revenue over 2 seasons and inconvenience to regular fans who are told they can’t attend home matches for 2 years.

The risk is once fans are forced to break the habit and find something else to do….they might not automatically return to watching the Blades.

Also we don’t need any space under the Kop. We already have decent conference, banqueting facilities
but if we wish to expand then it’s logical to put the additional (under the seating) facilities in the South stand.
That’s my concern - effectively I’d miss a season?

No amount of stadium development is worth it from my (albeit selfish) point of view.
 
That’s my concern - effectively I’d miss a season?

No amount of stadium development is worth it from my (albeit) selfish point of view.

If we flatten the earth and build a stand from scratch you'd risk, effectively being banned from Bramall Lane for 2 seasons, not 1 season.

Where as building on the back of the Kop stand, similar to what Liverpool have done with their Anfield Road (away) stand means no one misses out.
The Kop remains open for much of the time whilst building works is taking place.
 
That’s my concern - effectively I’d miss a season?

No amount of stadium development is worth it from my (albeit selfish) point of view.
I agree. I go to watch football. It could be lots swisher, but I do other things for that.
No way is missing games worth any 'improvement'
 
If we flatten the earth and build a stand from scratch you'd risk, effectively being banned from Bramall Lane for 2 seasons, not 1 season.

Where as building on the back of the Kop stand, similar to what Liverpool have done with their Anfield Road (away) stand means no one misses out.
The Kop remains open for much of the time whilst building works is taking place.
If they can do it without closing the stand during the season then obviously that would be fine.
 
If we flatten the earth and build a stand from scratch you'd risk, effectively being banned from Bramall Lane for 2 seasons, not 1 season.

Where as building on the back of the Kop stand, similar to what Liverpool have done with their Anfield Road (away) stand means no one misses out.
The Kop remains open for much of the time whilst building works is taking place.
It's a good idea but the costs aren't sustainable for us. It's cost Liverpool 80million, however 5200 of the seats will be general admission at £60 a game and 1800 will be hospitality which at Anfield is £500 a game and a lot of it much more. So they will make the best part of 1.5m per game, so with league, cup and Europe they make it back in 2 years and know it will be full for ever basically. It would take us a lifetime to make that back as we can't charge as much and we certainly don't have the hospitality demand and then on top of that we might not even need the extra seats to sell so it becomes a huge loss. Its basically a complete non starter which is very unfortunate.
 
The last set of Kop expansion plans that still have current planning permission addresses both your issues.

The Kop would take just 18 months (2 summers + 1 season) to put another 3,200 seats on the back of the Kop
….increasing working capacity to over 34K. Whilst building works take place almost all the Kop remains open….so hardly anyone affected.

Also the concourse will be expanded and fully enclosed with modern and expanded toilets, bars and kiosks.
And the final advantage is the cost….much much cheaper that clearing a site and building a whole new stand. Its not just the cost of the stand, it’s the lost match ticket revenue over 2 seasons and inconvenience to regular fans who are told they can’t attend home matches for 2 years.

The risk is once fans are forced to break the habit and find something else to do….they might not automatically return to watching the Blades.

Also we don’t need any space under the Kop. We already have decent conference, banqueting facilities
but if we wish to expand then it’s logical to put the additional (under the seating) facilities in the South stand.
One of the biggest and most common complaints, is usually directed at the food and beverage services. Under the Kop is an ideal place to make these facilities more permanent.
The current system is a bit Heath Robinson. Why not use the space to generate higher revenue, with more formal, purpose built facilities?
High price food and beverages at premium prices, with a captive audience. For those on a budget, a flask and a snap tin will do. :)
 
I've seen with my own eyes fans being turned away during our 1st season in the Premier League a few year back.

I personally know a Rotherham fan who wanted to attend the Liverpool game so I personally went down to the ticket office and they wouldn't let me buy an extra ticket.
They weren't even allowing registrations. There was 2 Asian guys immediately in front of me also wanting to buy tickets.
The receptionist asked for their registration details, they said they aren't registered, so the young girl said tickets can only be bought if registered on the database.
The 2 guys said they would happily register, but the ticket office said they needed to have registered in previous years and a new registration can't be accepted for this match. So they were refused tickets and I was also refused a ticket for my friend.

I believe for the big games where there is easily a 40K demand like Liverpool, Man United, Man City etc the only way to buy tickets were to be registered on the database in previous seasons. So even if you agreed to register on the day, it was still impossible to buy a ticket.

I also had a situation when I was attending a social event with a casual Wednesday fan friend and joked he should come with me to a Premier League match.
To my surprise he agreed to come...tried to buy a ticket but was told he had to register on the database. When I told him he refused saying he wasn't willing to register but just wanted a ticket. He asked if I could buy extra tickets on my season ticket and when I asked the ticket office they said no, everyone must register.

Other clubs have a massive demand from casual supports who just want to see a Premier League game. However probably because SUFC feel they can fill the stadium with their own genuine supporters we've chosen a policy to make it really difficult for casual/neutral supporters to attend.

For example I'm a SU season ticket holder but in the 80's I bought tickets for Hillsborough on the odd occasion.
We have visitors from Canada and one wanted to attend an English football match when SW were at home to Everton, so I had little choice to take him there. It was SW first match with the roof on the Kop. Also in the 80's one of my work colleagues was a massive Watford fan, so a few of us at work (mainly Blades) used to go to Hillsboro whenever Watford were playing to support Watford. It was so easy to buy tickets, you just turned up on the day and sat in whatever stand you wanted.
Sorry just seen this. I’m laughing to myself here. 40k demand for big games from
Our own supporters? Up to press we haven’t sold a single game out this season that’s with 2800 away fans and Man City have been in town so where this 40k demand you talk ?
 
i think we just need a new kop with concourse behind building and holding 15k that would take us roughly to 36/37k capacity i think thats enough for our fanbase apart from their being seats on the kop its a stand from the 70s 🙄
 
Sorry just seen this. I’m laughing to myself here. 40k demand for big games from
Our own supporters? Up to press we haven’t sold a single game out this season that’s with 2800 away fans and Man City have been in town so where this 40k demand you talk ?
I suspect for more casual fans the amount of fucking about and hoops the club makes them jump through to buy a ticket puts a lot off. With more seats available hopefully the club would relax the requirements for tickets.
 
Sorry just seen this. I’m laughing to myself here. 40k demand for big games from
Our own supporters? Up to press we haven’t sold a single game out this season that’s with 2800 away fans and Man City have been in town so where this 40k demand you talk ?
AFAIA, every game has sold out this season.

From memory, you've got a bit of form with this attendance twisting stuff. Whiff......
 
Sorry just seen this. I’m laughing to myself here. 40k demand for big games from
Our own supporters? Up to press we haven’t sold a single game out this season that’s with 2800 away fans and Man City have been in town so where this 40k demand you talk ?
Strongly disagree. If, and this is a big ask, United maintained a Premiership position a 40k stadium would be fine. Away supporters could have upwards of 5k, the rest to season ticket holders and "casual " game ticket purchases.
The Blades are a big City club, close to the railway station and city centre, ease to get in and out of Sheffield.
 
Strongly disagree. If, and this is a big ask, United maintained a Premiership position a 40k stadium would be fine. Away supporters could have upwards of 5k, the rest to season ticket holders and "casual " game ticket purchases.
The Blades are a big City club, close to the railway station and city centre, ease to get in and out of Sheffield.
He's twisting the sell outs - but it doesn't tell the whole story anyway. When you approach capacity with single and restricted view seats, selling them becomes much more difficult. A this point you're after the day trippers, who care much more about where they sit, and sitting with other people.

I know countless people who won't go unless they can sit with someone, or a group. This is much easier with 10,000 - 15,000 spare seats, as the pigs should well know. ;)
 

If they can do it without closing the stand during the season then obviously that would be fine.
I can't see Sheffield Council going for that one, some people stood up a bit during a football match and they closed half the kop for a season.
 
I suspect for more casual fans the amount of fucking about and hoops the club makes them jump through to buy a ticket puts a lot off. With more seats available hopefully the club would relax the requirements for tickets.
I'm fairly confident that the "amount of fucking about and hoops" is not the club's choice, it will probably be a council requirement as part of the safety authorisations.
 
Knowing our luck, we’d develop up to a capacity of 40k then get relegated to Division 1 in successive seasons. Playing in front of 15k with all the excitement and passion in the crowd of an autopsy. But there has to be a balance, the Kop and that Trivial Pursuits segment at the side are bobbar. We’ve got to improve at some stage, it just screams out of a club with limited ambition.
 
I think, if we had a sustained (let's say 10 year) spell in the Premier League, then about 40k would probably be our ceiling in terms of regular gates. That's assuming we're a mid-to-lower-table side, and don't suddenly get fantasy land investment and "do a Newcastle."

A new Kop would be nice, but it would be ludicrously expensive. Knocking down the existing stand and clearing/prepping the ground would cost a fortune itself. I'm sure I've read somewhere in the past that there is the risk of UXB's from the Blitz in the huge earth pile that it sits on, which if true would only add to the expense (needing military staff to sweep and clear the area). That might be an urban myth, but it wouldn't suprise me if true. Only then could we start on the expense of constructing a whole new stand.

I know fuck all about football ground architecture, but I can't imagine there'd be much change out of £15m or so to build a modern, well-equipped stand with the same or slightly larger capacity as the current kop.

As long as we're yoyoing, it doesn't make financial sense to outlay that much cash. I sit/stand on the kop, and I'd love to have a nice, modern, covered concourse, but not at the expense of investment in the playing squad, the training facilities, or calling in a hit on the Shirecliffe Sniper.
i will be honest neither do I. However the new stadium at York "York Community Stadium" that replaced Bootham crescent at a different site cost £44.2million for a 8,000 all seater 4 stands job based on that a development of the Kop will easily be in 10s of millions £. That stadium was completed nearly 3 years ago prior to the interest rates rise and other costs etc.
 
i will be honest neither do I. However the new stadium at York "York Community Stadium" that replaced Bootham crescent at a different site cost £44.2million for a 8,000 all seater 4 stands job based on that a development of the Kop will easily be in 10s of millions £. That stadium was completed nearly 3 years ago prior to the interest rates rise and other costs etc.
That cost includes the attached housing and retail developments, as does the £70m for Brentford's new ground. I would imagine though that United would be looking at £20-50m to rebuild a stand at Bramall Lane depending on the amount of work they want to do.

EDIT: Palace's new main stand will increase the capacity of that part of the ground from 3,500 to 13,500 across four tiers. That is expected to cost £75m and is more involved than anything we'd do.
 
He's twisting the sell outs - but it doesn't tell the whole story anyway. When you approach capacity with single and restricted view seats, selling them becomes much more difficult. A this point you're after the day trippers, who care much more about where they sit, and sitting with other people.

I know countless people who won't go unless they can sit with someone, or a group. This is much easier with 10,000 - 15,000 spare seats, as the pigs should well know. ;)
This
 
He's twisting the sell outs - but it doesn't tell the whole story anyway. When you approach capacity with single and restricted view seats, selling them becomes much more difficult. A this point you're after the day trippers, who care much more about where they sit, and sitting with other people.

I know countless people who won't go unless they can sit with someone, or a group. This is much easier with 10,000 - 15,000 spare seats, as the pigs should well know. ;)
The same happens in all sorts of areas of life - at gigs, in restaurants, even in churches - capacity is pretty much never achieved.
 
AFAIA, every game has sold out this season.

From memory, you've got a bit of form with this attendance twisting stuff. Whiff......
It just makes me laugh how we think we can suddenly sell 40k out when we can’t sell 30k. For me get the playing side right and maintain premier league status THEN look at extending the capacity of the stadium. Not other way round Ffs 🤦‍♂️
 
Sorry just seen this. I’m laughing to myself here. 40k demand for big games from
Our own supporters? Up to press we haven’t sold a single game out this season that’s with 2800 away fans and Man City have been in town so where this 40k demand you talk ?
Could be something to do with not being able to buy tickets unless you bleed red & white.
 
He's twisting the sell outs - but it doesn't tell the whole story anyway. When you approach capacity with single and restricted view seats, selling them becomes much more difficult. A this point you're after the day trippers, who care much more about where they sit, and sitting with other people.

I know countless people who won't go unless they can sit with someone, or a group. This is much easier with 10,000 - 15,000 spare seats, as the pigs should well know. ;)
I don't know why people can't understand this point.

It's like if you knew a particular supermarket had a product you had some interest in trying, but you'd never shopped there (or barely) and you were aware of the fact that it'd be difficult to purchase said goods, as you had to become a member and even then, you might not get all the goods you want together.

You'd more than likely just not bother. People are inherently lazy and even more so, when it's something that they don't yet have an emotional bond with.

I don't think that means we need to go fully out and expand to 40k (disregarding the cost of it for a second), but expanding to 35/6k allows for growth both in terms of new fans, casual fans, extra season ticket sales, comps (presumably we don't give as many away to schools etc. now) extra corporate sales and potentially, slightly increasing the away allocation.
 
AFAIA, every game has sold out this season.

From memory, you've got a bit of form with this attendance twisting stuff. Whiff......
Tell me what’s attendance twisting is .. The capacity is just over 32k. We haven’t hit this figure yet. 2800ish away fans. And highest recorded attendance is 31,300ish. Man City. So .. where’s twist ?
 
Tell me what’s attendance twisting is .. The capacity is just over 32k. We haven’t hit this figure yet. 2800ish away fans. And highest recorded attendance is 31,300ish. Man City. So .. where’s twist ?
Because the Palace game officialy 'sold out' with a smaller attendance.

The actual capacity at the Lane is now just over 31k, it seems. The Man City game, for whatever reason wasn't despite more people being there. There was only a handful of single seats left.
 

It just makes me laugh how we think we can suddenly sell 40k out when we can’t sell 30k. For me get the playing side right and maintain premier league status THEN look at extending the capacity of the stadium. Not other way round Ffs 🤦‍♂️
Including away support (like every other club) we’re averaging 31000 so far this season. Are you saying we couldn’t get any more home or away supporters to attend?

If so you’re wrong. We could give the upper tier to away fans if there was somewhere in the home ends to house those like myself who sit up there. We could certainly get another 2-3000 home supporters in the top flight as well if capacity allowed.

I can’t really understand the thinking of someone like yourself. could you have ever envisaged United averaging 31000 when we were getting gates of 16000?

It‘s just so short sighted to think we’re not capable of growing the club.
 

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