Stadium Development

[CarlMcBlade]

I do find it tends to be people who sit/stand in the shittest part of the ground (kop) who are surprisingly most reluctant to change. Personally I would never buy a season ticket for the Kop, and if I can vaguely remember, it was an antiquated stand on the first day it was opened 30 odd years ago. But I do feel it should be developed, if only to give fans better facilities.

 

[nopigfansintown]

There's a few obvious points that shouldn't really need making at this point. They are that obvious.

1) The most expensive seats with the best view and facilities routinely sell out in the Prem and Championship. There is a demand for more of these seats with better facilities. The rest of the stadium is inadequate for this type of clientele. That's a problem.

2) Hospitality and mascot packages are sold out for the season - again lost money. Man Utd et al will sell out any amount in this league.
The club target is also to be a multi event stadium. Without improving this we are limited in attractiveness for other events, not just football.

3) We have one of the highest concentration of restricted view seats in the league . Not good.

4) The Kop facilities, leg room, access and egress are stone age.Again, not good. There are people out there that don't want to sit behind walls and poles or wait 10-15 minutes for a pee or something to eat/drink on the Kop. That don't like getting stuck in the huge John Street queues pre match, or the ridiculously slow post match exit. This limits our attractiveness.

5) Ticket Policy is deliberately restrictive. The approach isn't growth, it's ensuring preexisting fans get tickets as we are close to capacity or at capacity.

Football has changed, the clientele have changed, and people want better value for their money. We aren't in the business of satisfying pre 90s football fans. The problem, as ever, is having the money to do something about it.

 

[alcoblade]

It just makes me laugh how we think we can suddenly sell 40k out when we can’t sell 30k. For me get the playing side right and maintain premier league status THEN look at extending the capacity of the stadium. Not other way round Ffs

But the stadium is regularly sold out in the premier league, and plenty of people don't go because of lack of availability of groups of seats.

And nobody is suggesting 40,000 turn up the day after. But we could easily grow into that, given the opportunity to easily sell tickets to new potential fans (day trippers).

The thing that makes me laugh is why you can't grasp that - though I have my suspicions.

 

[alcoblade]

I can’t really understand the thinking of someone like yourself.

Don't think too hard about it.

 

[alcoblade]

Tell me what’s attendance twisting is .. The capacity is just over 32k. We haven’t hit this figure yet. 2800ish away fans. And highest recorded attendance is 31,300ish. Man City. So .. where’s twist ?

That you couldn't buy normal seats for the Man City game - whatever figure was put on the board.

 

[Badger Blade]

We've got to try and have a sustained tilt at the Premier League to earn the money to put towards this sort of thing.

Problem we'll have is that we'll need to have to keep spending on better players to stay there and any significant ground improvements will always end up falling towards the back of the priority list. Palace have been in the Premier League 10+ years and their ground is still as it was 20 years ago.

We might have the odd bit of money to play with if we stay up for 2/3 seasons to make some small changes but until we get taken over by someone who is rich and legitimate, we won't be able to afford to do anything significant.

 

[ancientblade]

Tell me what’s attendance twisting is .. The capacity is just over 32k. We haven’t hit this figure yet. 2800ish away fans. And highest recorded attendance is 31,300ish. Man City. So .. where’s twist ?

its less than 32k thesedays it used to be 32600 if every seat was sold theres 200 less in the bllt for a kick off think capacity now is something like 31500 and dont forget one of the reason the home ends dont sell out is because most of the seats left are singles or restricted view

 

[ancientblade]

talking of empty seats if you want a good laugh take a look on pigtalk its hilarious at least 4k season ticket holders didnt turn up last night and only 785 tickets were sold as potd mind not suprising with chansiris pricing 23k was quoted but only 18k in the ground and that included 1500 boro

 

[Spot the Vas]

It’s all pure fantasy as we don’t even have a barrel to put any money in never mind any money, but if something akin to the McCabe plans (as per the original post) were to be built. You have the potential of putting the away fans on the John street stand (increasing the capacity for away fans) and then being able to have home fans behind each goal at pitch side. You could also charge away fans more as the equivalent view would be that of the south stand .
If you can get more away fans in, you have the potential to boost your average attendance just like the south dingles do.

 

[ShorehamRevolution]

The kop is the be all of the next development of our ground. A concourse and steeper take while keeping up or increasing the capacity. Anything after that is a bonus.

 

[Working Class Hero]

I do find it tends to be people who sit/stand in the shittest part of the ground (kop) who are surprisingly most reluctant to change. Personally I would never buy a season ticket for the Kop, and if I can vaguely remember, it was an antiquated stand on the first day it was opened 30 odd years ago. But I do feel it should be developed, if only to give fans better facilities.

That's because the people who sit/stand there (like myself), tend to go to games for a different experience to those that sit on the other stands, and know that changing the kop too much would take that experience away (or at least water it down).

 

[Balham]

The kop is the be all of the next development of our ground. A concourse and steeper take while keeping up or increasing the capacity. Anything after that is a bonus.

Let's say we're going redevelop the Kop. United is a business and needs payback over 10 years on a major investment like a new stand. The Kop currently has a capacity of 10,221 but a lot of those seats are properly restricted view so let's say a working capacity of 10,000. Two hypothetical options:

1) A monster, single tier along the lines of Spurs' new home end. That's the biggest single tier stand in the country at 17,500. We'd not get to that, maybe to 15,000. Cost around £30m. Each of those additional 5,000 seats has to generate an income of £1,000 per year and that's assuming they all sell.
2) A two-tier home end with an additional 7,000 seats but at a cost of £40m. Each of the additional seats has to generate £850 additional revenue per year, again assuming they all sell.

The money doesn't really stack up for the Kop rebuild. The smart choice is to put a second tier on the Laver stand with two rows of corporate boxes. Like it or not, the money is in the corporate income not the standard seats. If we sort that we might be able to take a longer term view on replacing the Kop.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Sorry just seen this. I’m laughing to myself here. 40k demand for big games from
Our own supporters? Up to press we haven’t sold a single game out this season that’s with 2800 away fans and Man City have been in town so where this 40k demand you talk ?

Never said 40K from our fans......said there's easily 40K demand for some of our games in the Premier League.

I remember the 70's and 80's, there's 10's of 1000's of football fans in South Yorkshire, that just want to see the big clubs in person.
They might not support anyone local but just fancy taking in a big match.

Thats what happens down in London. For example West Ham and Fulham encourage neutrals and even tourists.

In the 70's we used to get the odd 40K for big matches, football is now much more popular than it was in the 1970's.
So logic suggests if it was a free for all for tickets.....then 40K to 50K would be possible.
For example we could copy Sheff Wed and give 5 to 6K ticket to away fans and increase capacity in the home ends.

Often thought season tickets holders....only when tickets have been on general sale for a while should be allowed to buy up to 5 extra tickets.
No names...no registrations.....these tickets will be allocated to the season tickets holder.

Also apart from restricted view we sold out almost half our matches last season in the Championship and sold out every match this season.
The Palace match was an official sell out..no tickets were able to be bought on the morning of the match..which was weird when the Man City match had slightly more.
It's still a bit weird how the club seem to change the number of tickets available for sale from match to match.
So unless the club announce an official sell out like the Palace match...then we never know how close it is to a sell-out.

 

[jt64]

That's because the people who sit/stand there (like myself), tend to go to games for a different experience to those that sit on the other stands, and know that changing the kop too much would take that experience away (or at least water it down).

Rebuild the Kop in such a way that you can have safe standing and your concerns about "experience" disappear

 

[Working Class Hero]

Rebuild the Kop in such a way that you can have safe standing and your concerns about "experience" disappear

Oh I agree. A one tiered stand with safe standing and no corporate areas would not only keep the feel, but probably improve on it. The concern is that once money comes into it, that's not what we'll end up with.

 

[SRA76]

Never said 40K from our fans......said there's easily 40K demand for some of our games in the Premier League.

I remember the 70's and 80's, there's 10's of 1000's of football fans in South Yorkshire, that just want to see the big clubs in person.
They might not support anyone local but just fancy taking in a big match.

Thats what happens down in London. For example West Ham and Fulham encourage neutrals and even tourists.

In the 70's we used to get the odd 40K for big matches, football is now much more popular than it was in the 1970's.
So logic suggests if it was a free for all for tickets.....then 40K to 50K would be possible.
For example we could copy Sheff Wed and give 5 to 6K ticket to away fans and increase capacity in the home ends.

Often thought season tickets holders....only when tickets have been on general sale for a while should be allowed to buy up to 5 extra tickets.
No names...no registrations.....these tickets will be allocated to the season tickets holder.

Also apart from restricted view we sold out almost half our matches last season in the Championship and sold out every match this season.
The Palace match was an official sell out..no tickets were able to be bought on the morning of the match..which was weird when the Man City match had slightly more.
It's still a bit weird how the club seem to change the number of tickets available for sale from match to match.
So unless the club announce an official sell out like the Palace match...then we never know how close it is to a sell-out.

Get ya

 

[SRA76]

talking of empty seats if you want a good laugh take a look on pigtalk its hilarious at least 4k season ticket holders didnt turn up last night and only 785 tickets were sold as potd mind not suprising with chansiris pricing 23k was quoted but only 18k in the ground and that included 1500

 

[SRA76]

talking of empty seats if you want a good laugh take a look on pigtalk its hilarious at least 4k season ticket holders didnt turn up last night and only 785 tickets were sold as potd mind not suprising with chansiris pricing 23k was quoted but only 18k in the ground and that included 1500 boro

Told by a pig boro took over 2k

 

[ThatJa]

He's twisting the sell outs - but it doesn't tell the whole story anyway. When you approach capacity with single and restricted view seats, selling them becomes much more difficult. A this point you're after the day trippers, who care much more about where they sit, and sitting with other people.

I know countless people who won't go unless they can sit with someone, or a group. This is much easier with 10,000 - 15,000 spare seats, as the pigs should well know.

and even then the day trippers avoid Wednesday matches.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

But the stadium is regularly sold out in the premier league, and plenty of people don't go because of lack of availability of groups of seats.

And nobody is suggesting 40,000 turn up the day after. But we could easily grow into that, given the opportunity to easily sell tickets to new potential fans (day trippers).

The thing that makes me laugh is why you can't grasp that - though I have my suspicions.

Yeah, it seems we’ve outgrown BDTBL without really being consistently successful.

 

[ThatJa]

That's because the people who sit/stand there (like myself), tend to go to games for a different experience to those that sit on the other stands, and know that changing the kop too much would take that experience away (or at least water it down).

The thing is, if you sit on the Kop you don't get the best view but you do get the best atmosphere.

If you sit on the South Stand then you get a really good view and facilities but not the best atmosphere compared.

If you sit on John Street you get a more "family" oriented vibe.

I wouldn't ever sit on another stand unless the Kop was closed, which we seem to do a lot for cup games.

I took my daughter to her first ever game in our first season back in the PL (v Palace) and I sat on the BLUT as it was her first game and she was only 5, and I felt out of my comfort zone, but she enjoyed it so it was worth it!

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Yeah, it seems we’ve outgrown BDTBL without really being consistently successful.

It’s all pure fantasy as we don’t even have a barrel to put any money in never mind any money, but if something akin to the McCabe plans (as per the original post) were to be built. You have the potential of putting the away fans on the John street stand (increasing the capacity for away fans) and then being able to have home fans behind each goal at pitch side. You could also charge away fans more as the equivalent view would be that of the south stand .
If you can get more away fans in, you have the potential to boost your average attendance just like the south dingles do.

Nobody in the Prem would ever give 5500 seats to away fans…Why should we?

 

[Working Class Hero]

The thing is, if you sit on the Kop you don't get the best view but you do get the best atmosphere.

If you sit on the South Stand then you get a really good view and facilities but not the best atmosphere compared.

If you sit on John Street you get a more "family" oriented vibe.

I wouldn't ever sit on another stand unless the Kop was closed, which we seem to do a lot for cup games.

I took my daughter to her first ever game in our first season back in the PL (v Palace) and I sat on the BLUT as it was her first game and she was only 5, and I felt out of my comfort zone, but she enjoyed it so it was worth it!

I think that's just it, there's different options for different people. No one should have to change.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

That's because the people who sit/stand there (like myself), tend to go to games for a different experience to those that sit on the other stands, and know that changing the kop too much would take that experience away (or at least water it down).

Yeah, I agree to a certain extent, we are lucky to have a ground with 4 very different stands with 4 different ways to watch the match. Would hate to have one of those soulless bowl-type stadiums. But I do feel the kop does spoil the look of the ground. Maybe we could keep the kop fully intact and just put a tier above it instead of just tacking on the back.

 

[reedy63]

Never leave the beautiful downtown Bramall Lane. close to the city center good transport links etc, how many times have you been told the game is a complete sell-out? when plenty of empty seats. safety issues or the council rules. Building techniques have changed plenty of room behind the kop. behind Tony Currie stand. even Bramall Lane could have a tier over the road like the holte end at Villa Park.however, we can't afford it yet. unless we have a few seasons in the premier league.

 

[Working Class Hero]

Yeah, I agree to a certain extent, we are lucky to have a ground with 4 very different stands with 4 different ways to watch the match. Would hate to have one of those soulless bowl-type stadiums. But I do feel the kop does spoil the look of the ground. Maybe we could keep the kop fully intact and just put a tier above it instead of just tacking on the back.

Nah, two tiers would definitely kill the atmosphere in my opinion. The best grounds all have one mass of supporters behind the goal.

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with bolting a standing section to the back of the current kop, whilst replacing the roof, getting rid of the pillars and making an indoor concourse. It would look exactly like a brand new stand and serve every purpose it needs to.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I've seen with my own eyes fans being turned away during our 1st season in the Premier League a few year back.

I personally know a Rotherham fan who wanted to attend the Liverpool game so I personally went down to the ticket office and they wouldn't let me buy an extra ticket.
They weren't even allowing registrations. There was 2 Asian guys immediately in front of me also wanting to buy tickets.
The receptionist asked for their registration details, they said they aren't registered, so the young girl said tickets can only be bought if registered on the database.
The 2 guys said they would happily register, but the ticket office said they needed to have registered in previous years and a new registration can't be accepted for this match. So they were refused tickets and I was also refused a ticket for my friend.

I believe for the big games where there is easily a 40K demand like Liverpool, Man United, Man City etc the only way to buy tickets were to be registered on the database in previous seasons. So even if you agreed to register on the day, it was still impossible to buy a ticket.

I also had a situation when I was attending a social event with a casual Wednesday fan friend and joked he should come with me to a Premier League match.
To my surprise he agreed to come...tried to buy a ticket but was told he had to register on the database. When I told him he refused saying he wasn't willing to register but just wanted a ticket. He asked if I could buy extra tickets on my season ticket and when I asked the ticket office they said no, everyone must register.

Other clubs have a massive demand from casual supports who just want to see a Premier League game. However probably because SUFC feel they can fill the stadium with their own genuine supporters we've chosen a policy to make it really difficult for casual/neutral supporters to attend.

For example I'm a SU season ticket holder but in the 80's I bought tickets for Hillsborough on the odd occasion.
We have visitors from Canada and one wanted to attend an English football match when SW were at home to Everton, so I had little choice to take him there. It was SW first match with the roof on the Kop. Also in the 80's one of my work colleagues was a massive Watford fan, so a few of us at work (mainly Blades) used to go to Hillsboro whenever Watford were playing to support Watford. It was so easy to buy tickets, you just turned up on the day and sat in whatever stand you wanted.

None of this is news.

Imagine a free for all where the likes of Man. United, Leeds, Newcastle - in fact any team having regular away support over 2800 - being able to register and get tickets. Be mayhem.

 

[YES Blade]

Yeah, I agree to a certain extent, we are lucky to have a ground with 4 very different stands with 4 different ways to watch the match. Would hate to have one of those soulless bowl-type stadiums. But I do feel the kop does spoil the look of the ground. Maybe we could keep the kop fully intact and just put a tier above it instead of just tacking on the back.

Why does a new stadium automatically mean it will be a “soulless bowl”?

Middlesbrough, Leicester, Southampton, Derby and Sunderland etc. built their stadiums in the late 90s and early 00s. I’m sure stadium design must’ve changed and improved in the last 20-25 years!

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Why does a new stadium automatically mean it will be a “soulless bowl”?

Middlesbrough, Leicester, Southampton, Derby and Sunderland etc. built their stadiums in the late 90s and early 00s. I’m sure stadium design must’ve changed and improved in the last 20-25 years!

Spurs and everton show how grounds have moved on from those grounds. Even Wembley is getting a bit tired compared to the elite now

 

[CornwallBlade]

Strange that the Council don't revere Bramall Lane and always pick Hillsborough to represent the city, despite its history, poor location, and transport links, its state of disrepair and the huge sum it would put on the tax payer, to finance the improvements. Apparently its because it has a park nearby.

The Lane has a unique history in the game, excellent transport links, is a PL standard ground, would cost considerably less to upgrade and has the City Centre on its door step.

Weird eh?

No doubt the Council would love it as a building plot and to see us on a faceless industrial park like Derby. The location of BDTBL is superb. Newcastle city centre is made all the more special by the presence of their stadium. We should never leave