Stephen Bettis speaks to local Media

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?


Rodley said:
Yes, absolutely. It’s fiercely competitive.

When you condense it down to its essentials, doing a deal is doing a deal. The line up for the first three games speak for themselves.
Click to expand...
I don’t believe corporate deals for multi millions ever get done in less than two days. I’ve certainly never seen one. Not even ill advised amateurishly handled ones resulting in bad outcomes, and I’ve seen dozens of those of various sizes. The prime example being the failed acquisition of Joe Coral by Ladbroke that once cost me my Christmas. They are not remotely comparable with a football transfer. Some shared principles, totally different execution.

I also don’t believe football transfers happen quickly unless the buying club is prepared to overpay in terms of transfer fee, agents fees & wages.

I advise on the tax implications of both, for both vendor & vendee, and have done for many years, so also have direct experience, in both cases.
 
Sheffsteel said:
Agree with the sentiment but that's not realistic.
Football stopped being a sport decades ago.....now it's big business controlled by agents.
A least with N'Diaye he followed his heart and didn't leave for the money.

There's a pecking order and even a club like Spurs constantly fail to keep any of their best players.
Lost Berbatov, Modric, Bale, Kane. They all wanted to leave for greater things. Imagine being a Spurs fan knowing anyone with world class talent will be sold.

Even Liverpool are a selling club and you can imagine in a few years Man City will be forced to sell when Haaland insists he wants to leave for Real Madrid.

Clubs like Brighton and Brentford are seen as the gold standard regards how clubs should be run.
Borussia Dortmund even advertise that it's their model. Buy really good players....improve them into world beaters.....then sell at a big profit.
Click to expand...
Some good points , well made
How much will Brighton get for Ferguson when he goes , 100 million plus ( nearly all profit ) or the price of our club in 1 player from a club that is good but will win nowt
Just signed a long contract , so good business for him / them he was on roughly the same money as Bannon !!! about a million a year until recently
He was bought for buttons from Bohemians over here ,
I want us to go down the Brentford , Brighton route as it’ll be the more sustainable way for our club to survive in the premier league
I personally enjoyed listening to this and it gave me , more context and a bit more information regarding the dealings in our club , they don’t have to run every decision they make through the forums of our club , we will as a fan base be more critical than the naive cult up S6 way , with its cringy banners , and chairman who said Brentford lacked ambition
Football is a business and our club needs to be run like one to ,
Buy , build , strengthen , become better
If we don’t survive this season we have done what Sir Chris tried doing get assets to sell for a profit in championship , to push for promotion again
 
Nick Jansky said:
I don’t believe corporate deals for multi millions ever get done in less than two days. I’ve certainly never seen one. Not even ill advised amateurishly handled ones resulting in bad outcomes, and I’ve seen dozens of those of various sizes. The prime example being the failed acquisition of Joe Coral by Ladbroke that once cost me my Christmas. They are not remotely comparable with a football transfer. Some shared principles, totally different execution.

I also don’t believe football transfers happen quickly unless the buying club is prepared to overpay in terms of transfer fee, agents fees & wages.

I advise on the tax implications of both, for both vendor & vendee, and have done for many years, so also have direct experience, in both cases.
Click to expand...

That’s all good gear, well done. For the reasons you’ve explained the M&A sector doesn’t seem to draw many parallels. There’s all sorts of transactional environments. I think you can condense them all down into fundamentals FWIW.

But other PL clubs, largely, get their business done in time for the season. If we want to compete at this level we need to do the same. That doesn’t mean we are forced to sign Tahith Chong or the players Luton signed. If people’s position is we simply can’t do this better and there was no other possible outcome other than fielding a L1 side for the first game, then fair enough. There’s no point in me responding further.
 
Rodley said:
One thing I do know about is leading complex acquisitions, with multiple parties, to a deadline in a corporate environment. Project managing multidisciplinary teams, negotiating legal agreements, etc.

It’s a different sector and my budget dwarfs SUFC, but if I stood in front of a PLC CEO and said “Sorry, it’s just a bit difficult”, I’d be potted.
Click to expand...
Funny you should say that I have similar experience and sometimes acknowledged that things did not always go to plan, but as long as I came out of each meeting with a way forward I was happy that steps in The right direction we’re being made. Also used to submit reports which acknowledged that myself and my team had done all we could and we were having to wait for other parties piece of the jigsaw to fit into place .

surprised, with your experience that never happened to you ?
 
Rodley said:
That’s all good gear, well done. For the reasons you’ve explained the M&A sector doesn’t seem to draw many parallels. There’s all sorts of transactional environments. I think you can condense them all down into fundamentals FWIW.

But other PL clubs, largely, get their business done in time for the season. If we want to compete at this level we need to do the same. That doesn’t mean we are forced to sign Tahith Chong or the players Luton signed. If people’s position is we simply can’t do this better and there was no other possible outcome other than fielding a L1 side for the first game, then fair enough. There’s no point in me responding further.
Click to expand...
I thought it might help, in the context of the overall thread, if I explain just one of the current issues that can complicate and delay a transfer.

Agents fees.

Frequently, these days, an agent will be working for both the club and the player when a transfer is being negotiated. The club will usually pay the whole of the agent’s fee once the deal is completed.

From the player’s point of view, for tax purposes, if the club pays the player’s portion of the agent’s fee the player is hit with a tax bill that can be huge - a tax rate of 45%. So, HMRC would love the whole fee to be for work the agent does for the player because it maximises their tax take. They will question what work the agent has actually, in reality, done for the club.

For this reason, HMRC no longer accept what might have been written down as an agreed split in the fees (let’s say, for argument’s sake, 50:50). They will want to look at what work was actually done by the agent to earn the fee and whether, in reality, he was actually working for the player, with the club agreeing to pay a portion of the fee as a means to reduce the player’s tax bill.

There is no “one size fits all” answer because every transfer is different. Not a problem for the likes of Harry Kane, they will simply pay the tax. Potentially big problem for the pond we are fishing in. So time has to be taken to make sure the structure of the agent’s fees are watertight. There is very often more than one agent involved in the deal.

Some clubs don’t deal with this properly, and a problem will arise further down the line (which people like me have to sort out 😊).

This is just one very small complication that can arise in a modern football transfer. Tax is a minor consideration in the overall deal, but still needs to be got right. Similarly, image rights, hated by HMRC. And the player’s domicile & residence for tax purposes. Very small parts of the overall deal, but illuminates why, the higher we go, the more complicated the deals can be. And one relatively small aspect can delay, or even derail, a deal.

Unless we are happy to just throw money at it to make the complications go away.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
They need more money. We don’t have it.
With Burnley you’re comparing a team with £110m net spend with us at £30m.
I dare say if we had 4 times our budget then our business would have been completed earlier as you don’t need to negotiate as hard and you can get deals done.
Archer would definitely have been completed quicker for starters as would have Souza.
To try and compare us to sides with vastly superior resources and backing is nonsense and is unfair.
Click to expand...
This is known as the ‘little old Sheffield United’ excuse. Bettis used it in his interview to justify why we are much slower than everyone else. The alternative is to invest the money in order to be competitive. We prefer the hard luck story approach.
 
derekacorah said:
This is known as the ‘little old Sheffield United’ excuse. Bettis used it in his interview to justify why we are much slower than everyone else. The alternative is to invest the money in order to be competitive. We prefer the hard luck story approach.
Click to expand...
It’s great spending other people’s money, isn’t it! 😁
 
derekacorah said:
This is known as the ‘little old Sheffield United’ excuse. Bettis used it in his interview to justify why we are much slower than everyone else. The alternative is to invest the money in order to be competitive. We prefer the hard luck story approach.
Click to expand...

Aka “the ceiling”.
 
I understand people’s frustration that we did not have a complete squad until right at the end of the window, but surely acknowledge the quality of players we have brought to our table which now provide us with a decent opportunity to stay up having three of our number one targets, Hamer, Archer and McAtee as opposed to what would only have been worse quality but ”available now” signings.
apparently Hecky even acknowledged that he was prepared to wait to bring his number one targets in
 
bertieblade said:
I understand people’s frustration that we did not have a complete squad until right at the end of the window, but surely acknowledge the quality of players we have brought to our table which now provide us with a decent opportunity to stay up having three of our number one targets, Hamer, Archer and McAtee as opposed to what would only have been worse quality but ”available now” signings.
apparently Hecky even acknowledged that he was prepared to wait to bring his number one targets in
Click to expand...
You have to factor in that some people have a need to find someone to blame
 
bertieblade said:
I understand people’s frustration that we did not have a complete squad until right at the end of the window, but surely acknowledge the quality of players we have brought to our table which now provide us with a decent opportunity to stay up having three of our number one targets, Hamer, Archer and McAtee as opposed to what would only have been worse quality but ”available now” signings.
apparently Hecky even acknowledged that he was prepared to wait to bring his number one targets in
Click to expand...

We’ve recruited the best I think from the 3 clubs that went up. Maybe Burnley will reap the benefit of some of their younger players, but I envision them to have a season like Leeds last season. Luton are here for the experience and to reap the financial reward like Blackpool and Huddersfield. I think all 3 of us will go down though.
 
Nick Jansky said:
Depends on the budget they have, doesn’t it.
Click to expand...
Most certainly, the worrying thing for me is that Bettis trotted out the ‘once bitten, twice shy’ excuse from last time around.

Instead of having confidence in our recruitment team he’s admitting that because we made expensive mistakes last time that we should just accept a more frugal approach that will likely lead to relegation.

Blades fans are accepted to lap this up and say nothing.
 

For the people saying "what coukd have they done differently?"

Do you think there are enough people with the requisite, football specific business experience involved at the club?
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
They need more money. We don’t have it.
With Burnley you’re comparing a team with £110m net spend with us at £30m.
I dare say if we had 4 times our budget then our business would have been completed earlier as you don’t need to negotiate as hard and you can get deals done.
Archer would definitely have been completed quicker for starters as would have Souza.
To try and compare us to sides with vastly superior resources and backing is nonsense and is unfair.
Click to expand...

You say that, but this is the same Burnley that dicked about with 5 bids for Berge after we’d told them our valuation after the first bid. They could’ve signed him weeks earlier, but instead waited until a day or so before the first match.

I don’t care what your budget is, clubs are always going to try and get the most out of it whether they’ve got £500m or £500k to spend.
 
derekacorah said:
Most certainly, the worrying thing for me is that Bettis trotted out the ‘once bitten, twice shy’ excuse from last time around.

Instead of having confidence in our recruitment team he’s admitting that because we made expensive mistakes last time that we should just accept a more frugal approach that will likely lead to relegation.

Blades fans are accepted to lap this up and say nothing.
Click to expand...
Nope. He has no say over the budget. The “frugal approach” is determined by how much money is available.
 
Nick Jansky said:
I thought it might help, in the context of the overall thread, if I explain just one of the current issues that can complicate and delay a transfer.

Agents fees.

Frequently, these days, an agent will be working for both the club and the player when a transfer is being negotiated. The club will usually pay the whole of the agent’s fee once the deal is completed.

From the player’s point of view, for tax purposes, if the club pays the player’s portion of the agent’s fee the player is hit with a tax bill that can be huge - a tax rate of 45%. So, HMRC would love the whole fee to be for work the agent does for the player because it maximises their tax take. They will question what work the agent has actually, in reality, done for the club.

For this reason, HMRC no longer accept what might have been written down as an agreed split in the fees (let’s say, for argument’s sake, 50:50). They will want to look at what work was actually done by the agent to earn the fee and whether, in reality, he was actually working for the player, with the club agreeing to pay a portion of the fee as a means to reduce the player’s tax bill.

There is no “one size fits all” answer because every transfer is different. Not a problem for the likes of Harry Kane, they will simply pay the tax. Potentially big problem for the pond we are fishing in. So time has to be taken to make sure the structure of the agent’s fees are watertight. There is very often more than one agent involved in the deal.

Some clubs don’t deal with this properly, and a problem will arise further down the line (which people like me have to sort out 😊).

This is just one very small complication that can arise in a modern football transfer. Tax is a minor consideration in the overall deal, but still needs to be got right. Similarly, image rights, hated by HMRC. And the player’s domicile & residence for tax purposes. Very small parts of the overall deal, but illuminates why, the higher we go, the more complicated the deals can be. And one relatively small aspect can delay, or even derail, a deal.

Unless we are happy to just throw money at it to make the complications go away.
Click to expand...
One thing that always puzzles me about football transfers is why an agent is acting for both parties in a deal? Are there other industries where this happens, because I find it hard to get my head around how someone can be acting in the best interests of opposing parties in the same deal and getting paid by both?
 
derekacorah said:
Most certainly, the worrying thing for me is that Bettis trotted out the ‘once bitten, twice shy’ excuse from last time around.

Instead of having confidence in our recruitment team he’s admitting that because we made expensive mistakes last time that we should just accept a more frugal approach that will likely lead to relegation.

Blades fans are accepted to lap this up and say nothing.
Click to expand...
Aye
Or (more accurately) they are “expected” (known to) whinge & whine & greet with the Wilder spunked billions on (always injured) dross narrative
 
I would love to see a fly on the wall documentary where a couple of the “experts” here are given a budget & put in charge of United’s transfer window. It would be the comedy hit of the year!!

Not for the club, obviously, it would be left in a whole world of shit at the end of it.

But I would pay good money to watch it! 😂😂
 
Tickhill Blade said:
One thing that always puzzles me about football transfers is why an agent is acting for both parties in a deal? Are there other industries where this happens, because I find it hard to get my head around how someone can be acting in the best interests of opposing parties in the same deal and getting paid by both?
Click to expand...
Agreed. Some of the things I have seen are beyond belief and hugely depressing.
 
derekacorah said:
This is known as the ‘little old Sheffield United’ excuse. Bettis used it in his interview to justify why we are much slower than everyone else. The alternative is to invest the money in order to be competitive. We prefer the hard luck story approach.
Click to expand...
Aye
Or maybe the “excuse” is actually accurate ?

In 55 years of watching SUFC I’ve been gutted more times than enough , starting with Jones & ‘Birch’ but there’s a reason/ reasons why we have (rarely) competed both on & off the field during that half century & afore.

How / why we can’t attract the ‘right’ owner / investment has been debated to death albeit with little (self) reflection on ‘our’ own (unrealistic) expectations & finger pointing.

Have we really been so unfortunate over the last Century that we’ve appointed a succession of incompetent skint charlatans whilst overlooking obvious genius ‘coined’ messiahs?

We recently enjoyed (endured to some) the most successful period in our (not so) recent history but folk now choose to ignore &/or spout (revisionist) perjorative opinions celebrating, or at least acknowledging the achievements of a ‘middling’ football club
 
derekacorah said:
Instead of having confidence in our recruitment team he’s admitting that because we made expensive mistakes last time that we should just accept a more frugal approach that will likely lead to relegation.
Click to expand...
That's not how I read it. he's saying the way we did deals in the past was wrong and that we still have Mitchell & Co scouting for us and Bettis himself sorting the deals supports this (they were recruiting then and still are now).
 
Rodley said:
You’re going to have to entertain an element of discussion and hear the odd opposing view on an internet forum.
Click to expand...
Aye
So, returning to the original question , what is it the Bettis has (not) done that invites the “odd” (outlandish or infrequent 🤔) opposing view ?
 
derekacorah said:
This is known as the ‘little old Sheffield United’ excuse. Bettis used it in his interview to justify why we are much slower than everyone else. The alternative is to invest the money in order to be competitive. We prefer the hard luck story approach.
Click to expand...
So you think there’s £100m rocking about somewhere and we just didn’t make payments last season for shits and giggles?
Seems a bit daft to have left it in the bank and not spend it though?
 

Tickhill Blade said:
Would love to hear some examples, names/clubs redacted obviously! 😊
Click to expand...
Ok, recentish example I was involved in (not the latest transfer window).

Premier League player has one year left on his contract. It won’t be renewed, he’s well out of the first team picture. Approached by a Championship club dangling a 3 year contract with a signing on fee - not an eye watering signing on fee, but certainly worth having. Pay cut, but security.

Club quite happy to pay up the last year of his contract because his attitude is stinking the place out.

Agent has one meeting with club. “Please will you pay up the last year of his contract & let him go?” Club - “Yes”.

Agent receives what would be a life changing sum of money for most of us from the EPL club for “negotiating the termination of the contract”. Really, he was pushing at a wide open door & has done fuck all.

Championship club pays agent a similar amount (mainly on behalf of the player) for negotiating the new contract. That part is fair enough.

Although they do manage to fuck up the tax treatment.

A good agent is worth his weight in gold to the player, but a lot of them just leech huge sums of money out of the game for very little.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom