Kop needs urgent redevelopment

[Sean Thornton]

That may be so, but we knew what needed to be done when signing an agreement with them, which we committed to.

Perhaps if we operated in a better way and didn’t piss off global businesses like Hilton, we wouldn’t still be searching for a legitimate new owner and a new sponsor. Then we’d have more money for Hecky.

HRH didn’t want the hotel. He had no choice or he got £5m for an investment of around three times that. Regardless it’s a money pit and spending on that, initially with no revenue, would have exacerbated our EFL issues.

We probably did need better management but then the financial decisions we make on here carry no risk at all. A point most choose ignore.

Would you buy a loss making pub to refurb if you were scratching about for cash?

 

[YES Blade]

What is it we don't have any money for infrastructure spend you don't get. Seriously. It's either or. I might want a conservatory or a 4th bedroom but I can't afford to have the works done.
Please let me know how I can without having a problem with funding it. You clearly know something about how these things work that not even those on here conversant with finance don't. Please share.

If you don’t have savings to pay for it, then you get a loan or additional borrowing on your mortgage. That’s how most people would pay for an extension.

 

[Sean Thornton]

No he didn't give any timeline it was post McCabe but essentially his extension plan. There's no financial benefit to knocking it all down. If it happens that's what it will be in all likelihood but the McCabe parcels aren't an issue. Don't think he gave any timeframe other than established in premier League.

Jam tomorrow. Maybe.

If you don’t have savings to pay for it, then you get a loan or additional borrowing on your mortgage. That’s how most people would pay for an extension.

and if you don’t have the income to pay for the extra borrowings?

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Jam tomorrow. Maybe.

and if you don’t have the income to pay for the extra borrowings?View attachment 165443

Was just trying to find exactly what Bettis said about the kop plans and the McCabe land couldn't find it ( pretty sure video of it existed)

Found this from 2020. And in 2021 the Hilton deal was agreed. Since then The Prince has wanted to sell so nothing moved on. For whatever reason they wanted to reopen the hotel even during peak COVID restrictions . I guess they don't know what you do

Prince Abdullah has more on his radar after training ground plan

Prince Abdullah has more on his radar after yesterday's announcement

www.examinerlive.co.uk

 

[Sean Thornton]

Was just trying to find exactly what Bettis said about the kop plans and the McCabe land couldn't find it ( pretty sure video of it existed)

Found this from 2020. And in 2021 the Hilton deal was agreed. Since then The Prince has wanted to sell so nothing moved on. For whatever reason they wanted to reopen the hotel even during peak COVID restrictions . I guess they don't know what you do

Prince Abdullah has more on his radar after training ground plan

Prince Abdullah has more on his radar after yesterday's announcement

www.examinerlive.co.uk

Re the Hotel it’s says “Yorkshire Live understands” not a club statement. Even then the place was a shell and CW wanted players. I’d say just an idea rather than a cogent plan for the near future.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Re the Hotel it’s says “Yorkshire Live understands” not a club statement. Even then the place was a shell and CW wanted players. I’d say just an idea rather than a cogent plan for the near future.

A year later the club posted on the official site the Hilton agreement. Guess they were just having a laugh. You know best.

 

[Tom Bott]

his vanity projects the hotel and office block

Which would be open and generating revenue 40/60 hours per week ( in an ideal world).
There are hundreds of office and apartment blocks financially scuppered post Grenfell.

A football club is 'open' for 2 hours once a fortnight to generate revenue.

It's a similar debate as to why invest in an academy, when the players will bring no benefit for years to come, if at all.
Though his vision for the academy, I think all will agree was a sound move.

 

[Tom Bott]

and if you don’t have the income to pay for the extra borrowings?

You go onto a social media site and demand that others pay for it...

 

[Sean Thornton]

A year later the club posted on the official site the Hilton agreement. Guess they were just having a laugh. You know best.

A year later you say. What was happening for 12 months? After that the shit hit the fan with relegation and trading losses and negative cash flow. I know that people running a business at that level will have revised the budget, cost cutting the least important things to keep the show on the road.

Not a case of me knowing better, just common sense.

Yes blade wants to borrow more money. Like you would to build a home extension. The lender would want your income details to see if you can afford it. No parachute payments there so it’s a fuck off tablet.

Of course you may be able to borrow more knowing the next years income is already accounted for and just not pay the gas bill or whatever.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Which would be open and generating revenue 40/60 hours per week ( in an ideal world).
There are hundreds of office and apartment blocks financially scuppered post Grenfell.

A football club is 'open' for 2 hours once a fortnight to generate revenue.

It's a similar debate as to why invest in an academy, when the players will bring no benefit for years to come, if at all.
Though his vision for the academy, I think all will agree was a sound move.

The hotel never made a bean.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

A year later you say. What was happening for 12 months? After that the shit hit the fan with relegation and trading losses and negative cash flow. I know that people running a business at that level will have revised the budget, cost cutting the least important things to keep the show on the road.

Not a case of me knowing better, just common sense.

Yes blade wants to borrow more money. Like you would to build a home extension. The lender would want your income details to see if you can afford it. No parachute payments there so it’s a fuck off tablet.

Of course you may be able to borrow more knowing the next years income is already accounted for and just not pay the gas bill or whatever.

But it suggests they want to reopen it when we have to money to fix the cladding issue.Which suggests they think it's worth it. Unless they just feel like wasting money on a hotel of course.

 

[Tom Bott]

The Hilton, although agreeing to move in a year ago, are still committed despite the delay. Although unlikely to be open for the 2022/23 season, the club are hopeful it will open in time for the 2023/24 campaign.

Sheffield United hotel delay explained and where it stands as a priority

The building has been unused since previous occupiers Copthorne moved out two years ago

www.examinerlive.co.uk

 

[Sean Thornton]

But it suggests they want to reopen it when we have to money to fix the cladding issue.Which suggests they think it's worth it. Unless they just feel like wasting money on a hotel of course.

The light bulbs finally come on!

Yes, when there are funds free. Not when we get hit with an EFL embargo for non payment.

Jesus.

 

[Tom Bott]

The hotel never made a bean.

When you embark on a business there are no guarantees.

Apart from buying a football club where you know you will loose tens of millions each year

Hence the term risk/reward. Which is why most people prefer others to take the risk and then criticise them for it.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

The light bulbs finally come on!

Yes, when there are funds free. Not when we get hit with an EFL embargo for non payment.

Jesus.

But you say it's a money pit and always has been. They obviously disagree with you expert view having actually seen the books. Or else they wouldn't be bothered.

Anyway it's Friday night

 

[Sean Thornton]

When you embark on a business there are no guarantees.

Apart from buying a football club where you know you will loose tens of millions each year

Hence the term risk/reward. Which is why most people prefer others to take the risk and then criticise them for it.

The point is when the team needs strengthening why spend what little there is on something which you’ll have to keep funding because of losses.

McCabe never went into that deal to make ongoing losses.

 

[Nightsweats]

The light bulbs finally come on!

Yes, when there are funds free. Not when we get hit with an EFL embargo for non payment.

Jesus.

I genuinely find it beyond mind boggling that anyone with an IQ even sub 90 seems to think shouting on social media that the owners of SUFC must spend tens of millions on infrastructure upgrades when there isn't that available to assemble a team that has more than a fighting chance of staying up.
That said owners should somehow borrow the money even though the club has it all on getting the finances approaching manageable.
They must believe that the 170m payable from the EPL is all available to buy unicorns and mermaids, that our overheads and existing debts don't need paying.
How do these people actually manage to budget the simple basics never mind a multi million pound business.
I despair reading 99.9% of facebook crap as it paints a shocking picture of how the race to the bottom of the gene pool has been run and achieved!

 

[Sean Thornton]

But you say it's a money pit and always has been. They obviously disagree with you expert view having actually seen the books. Or else they wouldn't be bothered.

Anyway it's Friday night

The expert view, smartarse, is based on facts.

If their new plan was expected to make a return then they would have run with it according to your man in the pub view.

Surprised though that for someone with an anti Prince agenda based on how you think how badly he runs the club that you have every faith he can turn the hotel into a money tree. It’s as if you just need to argue with me, especially with the little jibes you’re smug with.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I genuinely find it beyond mind boggling that anyone with an IQ even sub 90 seems to think shouting on social media that the owners of SUFC must spend tens of millions on infrastructure upgrades when there isn't that available to assemble a team that has more than a fighting chance of staying up.
That said owners should somehow borrow the money even though the club has it all on getting the finances approaching manageable.
They must believe that the 170m payable from the EPL is all available to buy unicorns and mermaids, that our overheads and existing debts don't need paying.
How do these people actually manage to budget the simple basics never mind a multi million pound business.
I despair reading 99.9% of facebook crap as it paints a shocking picture of how the race to the bottom of the gene pool has been run and achieved!

There’s a few on here would be lauded on FB and Twitter. By the like minded who post things without even trying to think one step on from a post.

 

[jt64]

What is it we don't have any money for infrastructure spend you don't get. Seriously. It's either or. I might want a conservatory or a 4th bedroom but I can't afford to have the works done.
Please let me know how I can without having a problem with funding it. You clearly know something about how these things work that not even those on here conversant with finance don't. Please share.

I don't disagree with you in the slightest, right now (as in immediately) the priority should be on the pitch, and that is understandable given the aging state of the squad and I'm pleased that money is being spent to address that. The points I've been trying to make, which seem extremely straight forward, are:

a) Infrastructure ought to be able to be financed over a much longer period than player transfers one way or another
b) It's impossible to make any sort of judgment as to what works, if any, we should theoretically go ahead with in the future, without at least someone estimating the costs of the project and the difference in revenue projections once the build is completed (to which some people are saying to the first point "why bother we're broke", and "but what if we turn into an Adkins 2.0 team" to the latter as if it's a certainty rather than a worst case scenario)
c) Every year we wait the Kop can add one year to the 30+ years it is already outdated, and it is a year where costs will continue to increase, be that through simple inflation or any number of reasons

Right now, the priority is to stabilise the finances and to put all efforts into improving the squad to maximise the chances of remaining in the Premier League beyond next May - I agree with that. That does not mean that is going to be the case at all points in the future, and while short term thinking is correct right now, longer term thinking in order to put the club (which is more than just the current starting XI) in the best place going forward, you just need to look at any single bit of infrastructure in this country as a whole. You say we don't have the money to do anything right now, yeah, that seems reasonable. Let's take off the glass half empty specs for one second and envisage a not completely unlikely situation where Ndiaye extends his contract, is the catalyst for us finishing, say, 15th, guaranteeing another £100m+ of TV money in 24/25, along with £10m of merit payments compared to the absolute minimum we will get in 23/24, then someone triggers a release clause in Ndiaye's contract and he fucks off to random foreign club for £30m. Now I'm not saying that all of that £140m is completely unaccounted for, as clearly a decent percentage of that will be earmarked for future operating costs, nor am I saying that none of outgoing player sales can go back into rebuilding/refreshing the squad, but even after that, we suddenly have some level of cash surplus. Is that too soon to at least investigate possibilities? Or do we need to wait until we've stayed in the Premier League three seasons in a row? Five? Ten? Until some billionaire comes in and is happy to spunk munneh? I just don't get why some people are so opposed to at least exploring the possibilities, think that any penny spent on something other than the first XI is a penny wasted, and that despite me struggling to think of any club in the top two divisions outside of the Pigs that has a worse stand than the Kop and isn't already in the process of building a new stadium anyway (QPR maybe?), the Kop will be just fine forever?

 

[S64 Blade]

HRH didn’t want the hotel. He had no choice or he got £5m for an investment of around three times that. Regardless it’s a money pit and spending on that, initially with no revenue, would have exacerbated our EFL issues.

We probably did need better management but then the financial decisions we make on here carry no risk at all. A point most choose ignore.

Would you buy a loss making pub to refurb if you were scratching about for cash?

Why sign a deal with Hilton then?

If I wanted to buy a pub, but didn’t have any cash, I wouldn’t then strike an agreement with a third party to operate it for me, if I didn’t intend on keeping my promise and couldn’t afford the necessary repairs to bring it up to spec.

 

[Nightsweats]

I don't disagree with you in the slightest, right now (as in immediately) the priority should be on the pitch, and that is understandable given the aging state of the squad and I'm pleased that money is being spent to address that. The points I've been trying to make, which seem extremely straight forward, are:

a) Infrastructure ought to be able to be financed over a much longer period than player transfers one way or another
b) It's impossible to make any sort of judgment as to what works, if any, we should theoretically go ahead with in the future, without at least someone estimating the costs of the project and the difference in revenue projections once the build is completed (to which some people are saying to the first point "why bother we're broke", and "but what if we turn into an Adkins 2.0 team" to the latter as if it's a certainty rather than a worst case scenario)
c) Every year we wait the Kop can add one year to the 30+ years it is already outdated, and it is a year where costs will continue to increase, be that through simple inflation or any number of reasons

Right now, the priority is to stabilise the finances and to put all efforts into improving the squad to maximise the chances of remaining in the Premier League beyond next May - I agree with that. That does not mean that is going to be the case at all points in the future, and while short term thinking is correct right now, longer term thinking in order to put the club (which is more than just the current starting XI) in the best place going forward, you just need to look at any single bit of infrastructure in this country as a whole. You say we don't have the money to do anything right now, yeah, that seems reasonable. Let's take off the glass half empty specs for one second and envisage a not completely unlikely situation where Ndiaye extends his contract, is the catalyst for us finishing, say, 15th, guaranteeing another £100m+ of TV money in 24/25, along with £10m of merit payments compared to the absolute minimum we will get in 23/24, then someone triggers a release clause in Ndiaye's contract and he fucks off to random foreign club for £30m. Now I'm not saying that all of that £140m is completely unaccounted for, as clearly a decent percentage of that will be earmarked for future operating costs, nor am I saying that none of outgoing player sales can go back into rebuilding/refreshing the squad, but even after that, we suddenly have some level of cash surplus. Is that too soon to at least investigate possibilities? Or do we need to wait until we've stayed in the Premier League three seasons in a row? Five? Ten? Until some billionaire comes in and is happy to spunk munneh? I just don't get why some people are so opposed to at least exploring the possibilities, think that any penny spent on something other than the first XI is a penny wasted, and that despite me struggling to think of any club in the top two divisions outside of the Pigs that has a worse stand than the Kop and isn't already in the process of building a new stadium anyway (QPR maybe?), the Kop will be just fine forever?

Fair points, we just differ.
I wouldn't waste a shiny penny paying for expensive plans for re development knowing it's a pipedream .
I would suggest that becomes a reality if 1) we are still up top after 3 seasons or 2) sooner if we are taken over/invested in and money is earmarked for upgrades.
as I've said several times, I'm fine with the surroundings I experience when watching my team. After all. They are the only reason I go to Bramall Lane.

 

[blade_ben]

Which would be open and generating revenue 40/60 hours per week ( in an ideal world).
There are hundreds of office and apartment blocks financially scuppered post Grenfell.

A football club is 'open' for 2 hours once a fortnight to generate revenue.

It's a similar debate as to why invest in an academy, when the players will bring no benefit for years to come, if at all.
Though his vision for the academy, I think all will agree was a sound move.

The office block is something else I’d demolish and extend the top tier around like the other side. May only add another 2/3k but more capacity

 

[jt64]

Fair points, we just differ.
I wouldn't waste a shiny penny paying for expensive plans for re development knowing it's a pipedream

Reasonable, although it's hard to say how much of a pipe dream it is without knowing a ballpark figure of how much it would cost. If we knew that a rebuild would cost £150m, then I'm with you, without a takeover it's never happening. If it was only £50m, then that's in the realms of being theoretically possible - make the decision that the next time we're in the PL after 23/24 we ringfence 20% of the TV money, have a youth product become the next Brooks, and you're at least getting close, and that outcome becoming reality could easily happen in the short term. In the real world it's probably somewhere between those two figures and it becomes more a case of judgment, I'd just like more solid estimates as to what the number would be rather than just guesswork

 

[Stevo71]

HRH didn’t want the hotel. He had no choice or he got £5m for an investment of around three times that. Regardless it’s a money pit and spending on that, initially with no revenue, would have exacerbated our EFL issues.

We probably did need better management but then the financial decisions we make on here carry no risk at all. A point most choose ignore.

Would you buy a loss making pub to refurb if you were scratching about for cash?

HRH also said "quote me in 5 years" regarding where the club would be compared to where they were when he said it. Promises & lies always seems the way at bdtbl

 

[CarlMcBlade]

We must have pissed off Hilton group with this. They signed a deal 2 years ago. Still not done our bit, so I’d guess they won’t be taking up their option now.

They said it would be open for this season. It’s such a wonderful facility for a football club to have. Now we’re in the Prem the occupancy would have been chock-a-block. Whether it be football tourists, out of town Blades or just somewhere for new players to land, whilst they get established…But alas not

 

[Tom Bott]

The point is when the team needs strengthening why spend what little there is on something which you’ll have to keep funding because of losses.

McCabe never went into that deal to make ongoing losses.

Build a hotel for x million.

Or buy a football player for 20 million and then pay him 4 million in wages.

Which is the better business gamble ?

Some might argue that a hotel is less a gamble, but with the hindsight of Covid and Grenfell some will argue that building a hotel was nonsense.

McCabe was born in a terraced house on Shoreham Street, now he and his family are all millionaires.

I think that on balance his business decisions have proved his judgement better than most.

Maybe he was just lucky.

Or an idiot as some on here would have you believe.

 

[Tom Bott]

Now we’re in the Prem the occupancy would have been chock-a-block

Once a fortnight, mostly.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Why sign a deal with Hilton then?

If I wanted to buy a pub, but didn’t have any cash, I wouldn’t then strike an agreement with a third party to operate it for me, if I didn’t intend on keeping my promise and couldn’t afford the necessary repairs to bring it up to spec.

After PL 1, maybe they thought we’d still be there for 3 seasons? Damn their eyes for not foretelling Covid and Wilders meltdown.

If you plan a budget expecting £100m+ then when half of that disappears you have to revise. The hotel would have been the first on the back burner.

We didn’t and don’t now have the money so the hotel is not a priority.

Why can’t people understand there’s no money but are pointing out what the plans were when things looked more rosy?

 

[Sean Thornton]

They said it would be open for this season. It’s such a wonderful facility for a football club to have. Now we’re in the Prem the occupancy would have been chock-a-block. Whether it be football tourists, out of town Blades or just somewhere for new players to land, whilst they get established…But alas not

It’s never been choc a block occupancy. Ever.