Is more rotation needed?

[Bergen Blade]

Danny Wilson seems to favour a settled first eleven. There are many good reasons for that, obviously. But I think it was a problem last season that our younger squad members weren't kept match fit during the season.

When the gaps started to appear, they weren't trusted. Wilson prefered "safe", "experienced" choices, i.e. Monty replacing McDonald, even if it meant we'd have to completely change our pattern of play. In the play offs we changed the formation as we'd ran out of "proven" forwards.

The reserves won their league, but to little avail, in terms of first team chances. Games were considered too risky, too important to throw in an unproven youngster. But even against little Salisbury we fielded a full strength side. Jordan Chappell got 12 minutes. We didn't use them if there was a way to avoid it. It didn't help that nine players were signed on loan during the season.

Given the problems of last season, should we try to rotate the squad a little more this year?

 

[metalblade]

Danny Wilson seems to favour a settled first eleven. There are many good reasons for that, obviously. But I think it was a problem last season that our younger squad members weren't kept match fit during the season.

When the gaps started to appear, they weren't trusted. Wilson prefered "safe", "experienced" choices, i.e. Monty replacing McDonald, even if it meant we'd have to completely change our pattern of play. In the play offs we changed the formation as we'd ran out of "proven" forwards.

The reserves won their league, but to little avail, in terms of first team chances. Games were considered too risky, too important to throw in an unproven youngster. But even against little Salisbury we fielded a full strength side. Jordan Chappell got 12 minutes. We didn't use them if there was a way to avoid it. It didn't help that nine players were signed on loan during the season.

Given the problems of last season, should we try to rotate the squad a little more this year?

Yes we should be giving more opportunities to young players but we won't. We are victims of our own demise, there is tremendous pressure on the club to get out of league one asap and it will need Danny to be very brave to play the young players unless there is no other options. I think where he can he will stick with the tried and trusted like last season.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

I suppose as well we have to assume that when they choose not to play youngsters it's because they see them every day and know that they still yet might not be ready. If they are ready, who knows but even if they are, DW might still not want to over commit. Young Harry kinda broke the pattern though and maybe one or two others, for some unforeseen reason, might get the same chance this season

 

[Princess Annes Dog]

You can only consider rotating the squad if Nick Montgomery is no longer a part of it. Most of the other players, and I'm taking a bit of a guess about the young lads, but I'd hazard a guess that most of the others can control a football and play to a formation and a style of play. We showed last season that we can pass the ball a bit, and that we can retain possession but whenever Monty plays we lose all that. He's always been a liability and now his legs have gone he's even worse.

I'm not a big fan of squad rotation as I think you lose a little cohesion and understanding but hey, if it keeps players fresh in the latter stages of the season then who knows, it could pay dividends.

 

[Swanseablade]

Danny Wilson seems to favour a settled first eleven. There are many good reasons for that, obviously. But I think it was a problem last season that our younger squad members weren't kept match fit during the season.

When the gaps started to appear, they weren't trusted. Wilson prefered "safe", "experienced" choices, i.e. Monty replacing McDonald, even if it meant we'd have to completely change our pattern of play. In the play offs we changed the formation as we'd ran out of "proven" forwards.

The reserves won their league, but to little avail, in terms of first team chances. Games were considered too risky, too important to throw in an unproven youngster. But even against little Salisbury we fielded a full strength side. Jordan Chappell got 12 minutes. We didn't use them if there was a way to avoid it. It didn't help that nine players were signed on loan during the season.

Given the problems of last season, should we try to rotate the squad a little more this year?

It's a good question but IMO there ain't an easy answer:
On the one hand you need to blood the young uns and get them ready for the next step - that's a given......
But a (more or less) settled squad played reasonably well and got us 90 points and 92 goals last year. Any other year we would have gone up.........

 

[Grecian2000]

For me you work out a way of playing, you get in the players to do this and you groom the up and coming players to be able to fill the roles as they are required.
This is what Arsenal do, when they have several injuries in midfield they don't bring in cloggers and journeymen and a complete change of style, they bring in the youngsters that know the way the team play and they fit in as best they can. The team of kids that gave us such an arseholing the other year were fitting into a style that they were well used to.
I believe when Wilson got the job it was on the proviso that we work as a club from top to bottom on a style of play and production line type sysyem that would gradually feed the academy lads that played Pembos way, into a first team that played Wilsons way, and there would be no discernable difference.
Sadly this takes time and we haven't weeded out all the first team squad who can't fit in or have the younsgsters in place to be their replacements (or have we?).
It is important to try and incorporate some of the youngsters in the cup competitions to give them a feel for the first team against better opposition than they have played against before. That is where rotation can be useful, the problem being you have to be in the fucking thing to do it!

 

[TopBoy]

Good point Bergs. I'd love to see a 1st team squad with their understudies coming from the reserves / youth team / development squad so that you don't end up with square pegs in rounds holes in the event of injury, suspension or lack of form. Everybody would "know their place" and be aware that their understudy would be chomping at the bit to get some action. Maybe that's just too simplistic, I don't know.

 

[sheffielder]

Not just rotation, but better use of subs when games are already won. Wilson is terrible imo with subs

 

[JohnDenver]

Not just rotation, but better use of subs when games are already won. Wilson is terrible imo with subs

I can't remember any manager being praised for their use of subs. Warnock used to praise himself for bringing Chief on with ten minutes to go, but the fans are/were never happy...

 

[SwissBlade]

Yeah, I’ve said on numerous occasions that we weren’t prepared for certain situations – i.e there was nobody suitable fit and raring to go to replace Ched, yet we knew that Ched was in court and perhaps had a chance to miss some games. There were other positions where we also didn’t have replacements ready to come in and play our system.

All of that considered I still like the way that Danny Wilson picks his best team and sticks with it. The points tally last season proves that it works. Perhaps his philosophy just needs tweaking slightly.

I’d be more inclined to look at the system that we play and be prepared to adapt that when we face teams who can “out think” us. I think mostly the system worked and we got good results, but we struggled against physical sides and we often got battered through midfield, particularly when we were forced to drop our game to get involved in the battles. Doyle was a huge difference in protecting the Centre halves, but it was going forward where we often struggled to compete – Cresswell was often expected to get battered for 2-3 games in a week and this is where BT/ Porter should’ve been pushing for a start.

I also thought at times we were too patient. We never panic, which has been great to watch, but we also don’t have the sense of urgency. I think this is a fall out from the successful way that we play – we know we can beat anyone in the division and we have the players to get goals, so why rush?

In essence I don’t think we need to alter much, the new players this season will have to prove themselves a little, but I think we have to just get a little nastier, a little more aggressive and dominate full games, rather than parts of games. It’s a testimony to how good we were that we didn’t need to play at the top of our game for the full 90 mins!

I imagine this season, we will have to rotate more frequently, because without Ched, Williamson, Lowton and Quinn (if he goes) then we are missing 4 big players.

I’d be tempted to say lets come back to this discussion at the end of September

 

[raul]

I can't remember any manager being praised for their use of subs. Warnock used to praise himself for bringing Chief on with ten minutes to go, but the fans are/were never happy...

Wasn't there another, darker reason that used to happen...?

On topic, there were a few little moments last season where promotion was lost ( a trial, a flappy keeper in injury time, 45 minutes of madness, and arguably the big one, losing 2 points in the last eight minutes of a derby and giving them one) but it's difficult to see how squad rotation would have prevented any of those occuring, so given the record number of points and goals the side racked up I would argue DW did the right thing by the Club last season. I understand the worthiness of the principle of involving youth, but this should only be an add-on rather than a fundamental unless we really are now a bigger Crewe.

This year however, circumstances will dictate they'll have a bigger role by default as they form a bigger proportion of the squad and we all get a charge from seeing them come through (though expect any that shine to move on again with the usual speed), but again, playing them for playing them's sake must not be the priority, finding a settled, balanced and winning team is.

 

[Bergen Blade]

playing them for playing them's sake must not be the priority, finding a settled, balanced and winning team is.

The main point is to play them to develop them. Then when we really need them, they'll be better prepared to come in and do a job for us. I think it can be done if we make it a priority unlike last season.

 

[Revolution]

I have no problem with giving fringe and young players a run in, say, the JPT or the league cup (too late for that).

To do it in league games when there are better options is folly, however.

Wilson's policy of playing his best XI almost got us home last year. It failed because:

1. One of his cover strikers got injured at exactly the wrong tiem, and the other one had a collapse in form coupled with a sending off.

2. To a lesser extent, McDonald got injured and his only replacement was Monty.

giving McAllister or Tonne 10 more minutes here and there would not have helped matters or allowed them to gain enough experience to come in and do a job in a playoff final.

 

[broomhillblade]

Not just rotation, but better use of subs when games are already won. Wilson is terrible imo with subs

I felt Wilson was generally successful with his subs last season.

It's all about perceptions, I suppose.


However, considering the league we're in, there will never be a better time to bring on some of the youngsters.

 

[Revolution]

the worst time to bring youngsters in is in a struggling side. It is best to bring them into a decent or good team if you can. If we start badly (and I think we will) more youth teamers will make things worse, not better.

 

[Newbury Blade]

I hope we see more of the youngsters coming through this season the way Maguire has. It's amazing that no fewer than eight members of the FA Youth Cup final team have got first-team squad numbers: Long, Kennedy, Maguire, Barry, Harriott, Whitehouse, McFadzean and Ironside. A great tribute to Pembo.

 

[Rodley]

Yeah, I’ve said on numerous occasions that we weren’t prepared for certain situations – i.e there was nobody suitable fit and raring to go to replace Ched, yet we knew that Ched was in court and perhaps had a chance to miss some games. There were other positions where we also didn’t have replacements ready to come in and play our system.

All of that considered I still like the way that Danny Wilson picks his best team and sticks with it. The points tally last season proves that it works. Perhaps his philosophy just needs tweaking slightly.

I’d be more inclined to look at the system that we play and be prepared to adapt that when we face teams who can “out think” us. I think mostly the system worked and we got good results, but we struggled against physical sides and we often got battered through midfield, particularly when we were forced to drop our game to get involved in the battles. Doyle was a huge difference in protecting the Centre halves, but it was going forward where we often struggled to compete – Cresswell was often expected to get battered for 2-3 games in a week and this is where BT/ Porter should’ve been pushing for a start.

I also thought at times we were too patient. We never panic, which has been great to watch, but we also don’t have the sense of urgency. I think this is a fall out from the successful way that we play – we know we can beat anyone in the division and we have the players to get goals, so why rush?

In essence I don’t think we need to alter much, the new players this season will have to prove themselves a little, but I think we have to just get a little nastier, a little more aggressive and dominate full games, rather than parts of games. It’s a testimony to how good we were that we didn’t need to play at the top of our game for the full 90 mins!

I imagine this season, we will have to rotate more frequently, because without Ched, Williamson, Lowton and Quinn (if he goes) then we are missing 4 big players.

I’d be tempted to say lets come back to this discussion at the end of September

Swiss - my two main gripes with Wilson are late substitutions and the soft underbelly to the side. You've made the latter point exactly above. McMahon will add a bit of steel to us hopefully and Harry will be a year tougher.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I suppose as well we have to assume that when they choose not to play youngsters it's because they see them every day and know that they still yet might not be ready. If they are ready, who knows but even if they are, DW might still not want to over commit. Young Harry kinda broke the pattern though and maybe one or two others, for some unforeseen reason, might get the same chance this season

Harry is a good example of how a youngster can develop if he's allowed to play. I remember a few people saying he needed a break etc at the start of the season. As the season went, people stopped saying that. Harry improved the more he played. I want more of that.

We can't always wait and wait until a youngster all of a sudden becomes ready. We have to do our bit to make them ready and first team action is the most effective way to do it.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Personally, I think we should play the possible strongest team in all league matches, regardless of age or experience.
If we get a comfortable lead in matches, we should use those opportunities to give key players a rest and squad players some time on the pitch.
Having seven substitutes this season will assist with this as we’ll be able to have more options on the bench.
We should play as many squad players as the rules allow in the JPT trophy even if means bending the rules Megson-style.
He got away with subbing players after one minute last season, so the precedent has already been set.

 

[broomhillblade]

Is more rotation needed?

I'll have to consult a spin doctor.

 

[Kenilworth]

As the actress said to the Bishop
Or was it the other way round?

 

[God]

I suppose as well we have to assume that when they choose not to play youngsters it's because they see them every day and know that they still yet might not be ready. If they are ready, who knows but even if they are, DW might still not want to over commit. Young Harry kinda broke the pattern though and maybe one or two others, for some unforeseen reason, might get the same chance this season

I'm more of the opinion that it's more to do with the same blinkered and archaic coaching system that has had a stranglehold on english football for years, with managers/coaches too afraid to go against the same sytsem that has been responsible for holding back English football for years.

 

[Sirius]

I hope we see more of the youngsters coming through this season the way Maguire has. It's amazing that no fewer than eight members of the FA Youth Cup final team have got first-team squad numbers: Long, Kennedy, Maguire, Barry, Harriott, Whitehouse, McFadzean and Ironside. A great tribute to Pembo.

The only way to find out if they can make progress is to play the youngsters. A final of the Youth Cup. Winning their league. Do we keep them at that level, or do we progress, giving them the chance to show that they can do it at a higher level? There is only one way to find out. We have a great rercord of producing young players for other clubs.
Let's keep some for ourselves and play them because they deserve the chance..I agree Pembo is doing a fantastic job.

 

[bettsyblade86]

What happened to loaning the kids out? Walker, naughton and Lowton all Spey time other clubs and came back better players. I know Monty, MCallister and Tonne went out last year but if we have 7 or 8 youngsters that maybe ready we need to use the loan system to find out. Maybe even get a loan fee or a proportion of their wages paid? It's time we used the loan system in out favour...