Berge

[alcoblade]

I really like Berge as a player. I think it’s testament to how well we are playing that we are critical of his performances when looking across the whole squad in recent matches. I think if we had got him on a free after he’d seen out a contract, there may be less criticism from some quarters; and he can’t do much about the millions of pounds paid for him. Many of us are disappointed that we haven’t got a player as good as we thought we were getting. I wonder how that looks from the other side…
“You’re coming to a club in the top half of the English Premier League chasing a European place. Brilliant atmosphere here, against top teams - we’re taking points off Chelsea, Man United - investing in players, brand new state of the art training facilities on the way; we’re really going places. We really want you.”
A few transfer windows later, after relegation, concerns expressed by his international manager about where he’s ended up playing, injuries (at least one from being kicked or tripped or manhandled by championship players), sub-standard training facilities, and then being told to pack your suitcases and wait in a hotel room on transfer deadline day because we’d rather have the money than have you as a player now (providing it’s enough - which it wasn’t). He could maybe feel like it’s not quite what he was sold when he was persuaded to come here?
He’s shown no petulance though, no tantrums, no demands for special treatment or shady antics to get a move. He looks like he’s just got on with the job as best he possibly can. It’s not really a hard-luck story (“Man with incredibly well-paid job does job he is incredibly well-paid for”), but other players around the football world have shown a far less impressive work-ethic in similar circumstances!

Of course if we hadn’t paid £25,000,000 (or similar) we would be less critical. That’s surely just natural?

If he’d come thorough the youth system and done what he’d done, we’d be delighted that we’d got at £2m player.

But that isn’t the case. That’s becoming reality for most people now. The talking point comes from those still (laughably) forgiving the enormous shortfall between purchase price and reality, and still passing the blame elsewhere.

 

[alcoblade]

We bought him when we were in the Prem for what was big money for us - same with Brewster. If we were still up there we'd probably have paid similar fees for other players by now and there wouldn't be so much focus on him or his price. He's a decent player - a match winner at times but we expect so much more 'cos the money we paid still seems a fortune.

Brewster being injured hasn’t helped that. Most of us have just accepted that Brewster was a terrible waste of money. Similar Burke, Mouset, Robison. There’s not much to add.

Whilst the majority have accepted that Berge is nothing like the player we believed, there’s still debate around his championship credentials, and he adds to it (good a bad) most weeks.

 

[100% part time blade]

Of course if we hadn’t paid £25,000,000 (or similar) we would be less critical. That’s surely just natural?

If he’d come thorough the youth system and done what he’d done, we’d be delighted that we’d got at £2m player.

But that isn’t the case. That’s becoming reality for most people now. The talking point comes from those still (laughably) forgiving the enormous shortfall between purchase price and reality, and still passing the blame elsewhere.

I can of course see why it’s natural to be critical when we’ve spent £25,000,000 or similar and a player’s performances don’t seem to match that value. I just don’t think the criticism should be of the player - it’s much more appropriate to criticise whoever made the decision to meet that valuation and put the deal together.

In the end, evaluating value for money probably only works in hindsight - if you have every single fact to hand. Once Berge has eventually gone, preferably for a fee, you could theoretically then look back on how many years he was here, how much was spent in the initial fee, how much was spent in wages, how much was recouped in sale, and how big his impact was.

A transfer fee also does not necessarily give a straight correlation to a player’s ability: the size of fee’s also linked to how long’s left on their contract, how desperate the selling club is for cash, the state of the market at the time etc.

If our starting point for criticising players is how much their previous club received in payment for them, then I think it’s a bit misplaced.
My view is he’s a very good player, even with the weaknesses we’ve all spotted, but I think his form has dropped off, and he really hasn’t been fully fit for a prolonged period very often. I still think he’s a really good player, a good professional, and I’m glad he’s lining up for us and not our opponents.

 

[alcoblade]

I can of course see why it’s natural to be critical when we’ve spent £25,000,000 or similar and a player’s performances don’t seem to match that value. I just don’t think the criticism should be of the player - it’s much more appropriate to criticise whoever made the decision to meet that valuation and put the deal together.

In the end, evaluating value for money probably only works in hindsight - if you have every single fact to hand. Once Berge has eventually gone, preferably for a fee, you could theoretically then look back on how many years he was here, how much was spent in the initial fee, how much was spent in wages, how much was recouped in sale, and how big his impact was.

A transfer fee also does not necessarily give a straight correlation to a player’s ability: the size of fee’s also linked to how long’s left on their contract, how desperate the selling club is for cash, the state of the market at the time etc.

If our starting point for criticising players is how much their previous club received in payment for them, then I think it’s a bit misplaced.
My view is he’s a very good player, even with the weaknesses we’ve all spotted, but I think his form has dropped off, and he really hasn’t been fully fit for a prolonged period very often. I still think he’s a really good player, a good professional, and I’m glad he’s lining up for us and not our opponents.

I don’t really see it as criticism of the player directly. It’s certainly not out in the real world - just pixels on a screen. Sander Berge, I’m sure, knows his performances are not in line with the expectation or financial outlay.

The ongoing battle is between us negative nellies, and those who still cling on to notions that he was a top European player, and make excuses for the shortfall by blaming everything but Berge’s performance.

It’s not a criticism of Berge as an individual. It’s just an apparent fact that he’s just not that good. And it’s now debatable as to if his presence is adding or detracting from our promotion push - which is a relevant talking point too. And actually, I hope we keep him for that push.

 

[Nagima]

I commented on just this on Saturday at the game, and also on his covering. He does track back, but his defensive work is mainly running into a goal-side position, blocking off the obvious pass, and staying 1 or 2 yards away while the opponent selects another pass.

His attacking play often involves doing something (a run? a decent pass?) then letting others take over from there and dropping off.

I think he lacks confidence in himself and his ability. He sometimes doesn’t push on demanding the ball back with a mindset of ‘Give it me back! I’m brilliant! Give it me now!!’
It’s all a bit more ‘safe’. And I think he doesn’t back himself to win a tackle, or a tussle, if he jockeys someone for the ball in midfield, so he stands off.

And I think there is no mean, aggressive streak in him mentally. Can you imagine Sander scoring and giving it large to the opposition fans to rub their faces in it? No chance. That also comes across in his play in my view.

Players who are or were the opposite of this? Ndiaye and Gibbs-White: both absolutely full of confidence, backing themselves to do something brilliant with the ball every time (even though MGW often lost it!), constantly demanding it back, fully confident they’d pinch it from any opponent with the ball. That’s what I think is missing from Berge’s game.

The question I think is how do we get that level of confidence into his game which could really improve his contribution for us? [And I also agree, despite the above criticism, he has already contributed well at times to an excellent season for the team so far]

Spot on. That is where the coaches come into it. They have to work on it with him to make him more confident in himself. Totally agree on Ndiaye and MGW.

 

[Snowflake]

Our two most expensive players ever.
Return on investment.
Brewster disastrous.
Berge fair to middling but could be so much more effective if his character was more assertive.
Berge operates at about 60% of his potential.
He has the physique & skills but his mentality is lacking.
I don't know how they can ever coach him to be a different person.
One that goes on the pitch saying to himself "I am gonna boss this midfield , I am gonna be today's MoM. I am gonna head it , put tackles in , surge forward with the ball , make passes , put in crosses and if I see the whites of the goalposts I am gonna put an unstoppable shot on target. Because I can."
My goodness , the player he could be.

Sounds good until I read the words “head it” !

 

[Snowflake]

I don’t really see it as criticism of the player directly. It’s certainly not out in the real world - just pixels on a screen. Sander Berge, I’m sure, knows his performances are not in line with the expectation or financial outlay.

The ongoing battle is between us negative nellies, and those who still cling on to notions that he was a top European player, and make excuses for the shortfall by blaming everything but Berge’s performance.

It’s not a criticism of Berge as an individual. It’s just an apparent fact that he’s just not that good. And it’s now debatable as to if his presence is adding or detracting from our promotion push - which is a relevant talking point too. And actually, I hope we keep him for that push.

We have no one better in that position whilst Bogle is at RWB.

 

[100% part time blade]

I don’t really see it as criticism of the player directly. It’s certainly not out in the real world - just pixels on a screen. Sander Berge, I’m sure, knows his performances are not in line with the expectation or financial outlay.

The ongoing battle is between us negative nellies, and those who still cling on to notions that he was a top European player, and make excuses for the shortfall by blaming everything but Berge’s performance.

It’s not a criticism of Berge as an individual. It’s just an apparent fact that he’s just not that good. And it’s now debatable as to if his presence is adding or detracting from our promotion push - which is a relevant talking point too. And actually, I hope we keep him for that push.

Fully agree that all negative nellies should do their moaning on here, and I’ve said previously that it’s not likely anyone affected would really notice, so it’s not a big problem.

This concerns me a bit more:

The bloke behind me who shouted abuse at Norwood until recently has now turned his attention to Sander.

Although even then, from the crowd, players probably don’t hear much you’d assume.

The genuinely concerning one for me is the pixels directed straight to a player’s phone on social media - the equivalent of shouting it in their face in their own home. I’ve no idea how much this happens, or how much attention players give to social media messages from fans, but there must be some of it because it comes to light in court cases now and then (McBurnie messaging back to both supportive Blades and threatening Forest fans, various players nationally reporting racist messages to the police from opposing and sometimes even their own disgruntled fans). So I’d guess they get some stick from some quarters in their inbox sometimes. I’d say that was out of order, and it’s with that in mind (and the crowd hollerers too maybe) that I sometimes post a bit of a defence of someone like Berge.

 

[Maidenhead]

Beats me how many of our fans knock Berge and then I read Roy's view from before games and almost unanimously our players the opposition fans fear most are Berge and Ndiaye.

I wonder what it is that they all see that many of our fans can't?

I think he's class by the way.

 

[alcoblade]

I wonder what it is that they all see that many of our fans can't?

The same thing - the reputation and £25m price tag.

They have the same opinion we all had 3 years ago, without our 3 years’ experience to the contrary.

 

[Frank the tank]

I feel a bit embarrassed that we are utilising and therefore benefiting from a player that we haven’t actually paid for.

Oink oink

 

[Maidenhead]

The same thing - the reputation and £25m price tag.

They have the same opinion we all had 3 years ago, without our 3 years’ experience to the contrary.

I think that's being very disingenuous to a lot of knowledgeable football fans around the country.

As I said, I think he's class on the ball, as were Currie and Edwards, even if he could do more off the ball, as could have Currie and Edwards but you don't get many Blades knocking them.

 

[alcoblade]

I think that's being very disingenuous to a lot of knowledgeable football fans around the country.

As I said, I think he's class on the ball, as were Currie and Edwards, even if he could do more off the ball, as could have Currie and Edwards but you don't get many Blades knocking them.

It isn’t just football fans who suffer from this. Managers do it all the time. I referenced Ollie Burke and Lys Mouset earlier.

If we sold him now it would be for a third (probably at best) of what we paid. That’s the markets judgment on his success with us.

 

[Charlieblade]

Berge wants a top EPL team.

At his present value and style of play, the only way he will get that is by making SUFC a top six club.

Right now in the championship, he is square peg in a round hole. Will he show his talent and skills for this club if we get promoted?

If he starts pulling trees up for the blades, he will get the move his talent deserves. He needs to prove himself, and we need to be better than an EPL mid table club. Catch-22 situation.

My view is that PH can get us up, and maintain credible mid table sustainability. The development of this side needs to be sustainable, before we can grow.

Berge has the same problem.

 

[alcoblade]

Berge wants a top EPL team.

At his present value and style of play, the only way he will get that is by making SUFC a top six club.

Right now in the championship, he is square peg in a round hole. Will he show his talent and skills for this club if we get promoted?

If he starts pulling trees up for the blades, he will get the move his talent deserves. He needs to prove himself, and we need to be better than an EPL mid table club. Catch-22 situation.

My view is that PH can get us up, and maintain credible mid table sustainability. The development of this side needs to be sustainable, before we can grow.

Berge has the same problem.

He’s an asset for a championship team with the ball, and a liability for a team without it. I don’t see him developing his credentials with us in the premier league unfortunately.

 

[TJ blade]

I feel a bit embarrassed that we are utilising and therefore benefiting from a player that we haven’t actually paid for.

You should probably feel embarrassed that you can't get any way near Derby County's home attendances

 

[Brownieblade]

The same thing - the reputation and £25m price tag.

They have the same opinion we all had 3 years ago, without our 3 years’ experience to the contrary.

You’re just blinded by decades of watching shit and being spoon fed that this is the United way

Price tag has little relevance, other people outside of us can reconsider ability, they just aren’t limited by the he has to play a certain way to be viewed as good

 

[Brownieblade]

It isn’t just football fans who suffer from this. Managers do it all the time. I referenced Ollie Burke and Lys Mouset earlier.

If we sold him now it would be for a third (probably at best) of what we paid. That’s the markets judgment on his success with us.

Surely a markets judgement is based on what clubs feel they can get away with, especially for a position they may already have cover for and may be thinking a season ahead

Berge may have struggled just as much at Liverpool or City or Southampton as he has for us but his value if bought, not loaned, will have been higher just based on how much the buyer thinks they can argue the other club down

Berger price, just like lily’s, will be determined by our situation and teams thinking they can get him cheap so they don’t have to over pay

If illy is sold for 25 million, doesn’t mean he isn’t worth more, just that the buying team knew our financial position

 

[Brownieblade]

I would love us to keep Berge but if we need to sell then so be it, if I was his agent I would be trying to get him to move to a better technical team for sure but right now we all are where we are

 

[Brownieblade]

Sander is like a winters coat from H&M, his price tag when we signed was around the mark of a cheapish deal for at that time a prem club, it was cheaper because he clearly still needed to develop over here, for most established prem teams it was a cheap, loan out for a few years deal

Problem is he was bought by a club of devoted Poundland shoppers, new to prem league where for that money they expect you to have the same impact that Messi or platini had for their respective teams/nations

We then wore that coat in Autumn and it looked good for a bit but then suddenly the winters got much colder and because we had spent so much we expected that coat to be as good as a North face

And now we are arguing that we can still get as good a as a North face by again shopping at primark or Asda because that older one we had before still fits

 

[sjl]

Oink oink

Ahh mate. Sorry, but I don’t carry the same obsessive feelings for you. I’m not one, and if you feel me raising it is unjust and makes me one, then I’m sorry. So tackle my comment rather than deflecting from the reality of it. We haven’t paid out, just like Wednesday and Cardiff. It’s poor pal, don’t you agree?

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Beats me how many of our fans knock Berge and then I read Roy's view from before games and almost unanimously our players the opposition fans fear most are Berge and Ndiaye.

I wonder what it is that they all see that many of our fans can't?

I think he's class by the way.

Other teams fans also rate Brewster with his 23m transfer fee.

 

[COME BACK CHED]

Other than the opening game , If Berge plays we do not lose , not a bad record.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Other teams fans also rate Brewster with his 23m transfer fee.

Following on from that..

Unfortunately football fans who don't watch us regularly just presume Berge is our best player. Which is clearly wrong.
They just see...

Played In the CL at a young age ️
Plays international football ️
6ft4 midfielder ️
Cost over 20m ️
1 or 2 bursts a match ️

 

[Charlieblade]

Of course if we hadn’t paid £25,000,000 (or similar) we would be less critical. That’s surely just natural?

If he’d come thorough the youth system and done what he’d done, we’d be delighted that we’d got at £2m player.

But that isn’t the case. That’s becoming reality for most people now. The talking point comes from those still (laughably) forgiving the enormous shortfall between purchase price and reality, and still passing the blame elsewhere.

I don’t think players or the club benefit from a sign saying ‘most expensive player’. I agree that is what fans base their judgment on, at least partially.

Much better to judge them on the basis of their quality as a player.

I remember more than one member here suggesting that Ahmedhodzic would turn a decent profit for the club after just one or two games. A natural reaction, but also a bit unfair on the player and the club.

 

[nopigfansintown]

So it has come out that he's been playing through injury. Quelle surprise. Fair play for him sticking his hand up. That's dedication!

 

[Tezza1889]

Ahh mate. Sorry, but I don’t carry the same obsessive feelings for you. I’m not one, and if you feel me raising it is unjust and makes me one, then I’m sorry. So tackle my comment rather than deflecting from the reality of it. We haven’t paid out, just like Wednesday and Cardiff. It’s poor pal, don’t you agree?

We don't type the W word on here mate..

Wendy
Pigs
Cunts
Deluded bastards..

That'll suffice to describe rust bucket tramps..

 

[nopigfansintown]

Other than the opening game , If Berge plays we do not lose , not a bad record.

Don't you be bringing your facts here

 

[nopigfansintown]

Top lad playing through the pain barrier and potentially jeopardising a move whilst getting slagged off for it . Model pro :

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/p...out-sander-berges-status-at-sheffield-united/

 

[bogo40]

Agreed. He’s certainly better in that more advanced role or down the right, but didn’t seem to be getting involved enough.

Doyle, on the other hand was class and no idea why he went off for Osborn as we lost all shape and discipline with him on.

Berge should’ve come off for McAtee

Personally I think that losing Berge in this window, wouldnt actually be a bad thing. Think you got it right, Doyle and Mcatee would be a great pairing with Norwood. Much as Berge is great going passed players he does have his quiet spells.