Berge

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Agreed. He’s certainly better in that more advanced role or down the right, but didn’t seem to be getting involved enough.

Doyle, on the other hand was class and no idea why he went off for Osborn as we lost all shape and discipline with him on.

Berge should’ve come off for McAtee

As I've said on another thread, his best spell came when linking up with McGoldrick, so the key to his hitting anything like his potential surely has to be his interplay with Ndiaye.

I'm loving how him putting in a 6/10 performance is getting people to start saying he's had a good game!! Like you say, Doyle was everything Berge wasnt/isnt! Athletic, committed, agile off the boy, aggressive when on the ball...

Would love to see us with Doyle and McAtee buzzing around behind Ndiaye and Jebbison. That really is the future!!

 

[SwissBlade]

As I've said on another thread, his best spell came when linking up with McGoldrick, so the key to his hitting anything like his potential surely has to be his interplay with Ndiaye.

I'm loving how him putting in a 6/10 performance is getting people to start saying he's had a good game!! Like you say, Doyle was everything Berge wasnt/isnt! Athletic, committed, agile off the boy, aggressive when on the ball...

Would love to see us with Doyle and McAtee buzzing around behind Ndiaye and Jebbison. That really is the future!!

There’s definitely a player in there and it’s no way saying he’s a poor player, but I don’t think he suits our system and I don’t think he keeps up with the speed of the game at times.

He doesn’t seem to be anticipating/ gambling enough when we attack. And the game often bypasses him when we’re out of possession.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

There’s definitely a player in there and it’s no way saying he’s a poor player, but I don’t think he suits our system and I don’t think he keeps up with the speed of the game at times.

He doesn’t seem to be anticipating/ gambling enough when we attack. And the game often bypasses him when we’re out of possession.

Absolutely. Pretty sure he was bought to evolve into the 'Norwood/QB' role. However, since then he hasn't really progressed and we're left with a player who looks confused at best, sluggish at worse...

 

[nopigfansintown]

One sublime reverse ball to put in Jebbo for a great chance. A fantastic header to save a certain goal at the kop end. Could've scored with a good headed chance himself. A great driving run in the second half when he feinted and carried it forty yards to relieve the pressure. I was disappointed in his crossing. It's been off for a while. We were wasteful in this aspect all night: many good positions without the required delivery. He faded after about 60- 70 minutes and could've been hooked at any time after that. So could Doyle who also faded and was carrying a booking. I don't know what it is but the team always seems to lack.energy after the hour mark.

 

[chesblade]

I'm a big berge fan, he played well last night much better than the weekend when he was poor

 

[SwissBlade]

Absolutely. Pretty sure he was bought to evolve into the 'Norwood/QB' role. However, since then he hasn't really progressed and we're left with a player who looks confused at best, sluggish at worse...

I don’t think he’s fully fit. I don’t think he’s ever been. I’d love to see the data on his fitness from when he arrived to now, he’s certainly got fitter.

But I don’t think he’s quite on the Jack Robinson, Egan, Bash, Anel, Baldock or even levels of fitness. They’re machines.

It’s water under the bridge and he’s developed since he’s been here for sure, but I don’t think he was bought for the reason as you say. He was a player that at the time was offered to us. Don’t know if he was on Wilders radar back then but he was apparently extra to the list that wilder wanted, but then we didn’t get the others on wilders list… or at least that’s how the story went

 

[robbiez666]

One sublime reverse ball to put in Jebbo for a great chance. A fantastic header to save a certain goal at the kop end. Could've scored with a good headed chance himself. A great driving run in the second half when he feinted and carried it forty yards to relieve the pressure. I was disappointed in his crossing. It's been off for a while. We were wasteful in this aspect all night: many good positions without the required delivery. He faded after about 60- 70 minutes and could've been hooked at any time after that. So could Doyle who also faded and was carrying a booking. I don't know what it is but the team always seems to lack.energy after the hour mark.

I think McAtee and Doyle simply aren't used to playing at that intensity at senior level. I actual thought much of Doyle's game was poor yesterday. He did well with the ball and buzzed around but let runners go and struggled with the defensive aspect. I wonder if we'll give him a go in the Norwood position against Wrexham. We need some contingency in case Norwood is injured and I think he's a much better fit than Berge. It would probably suit him better as there's less up and down. Berge, I simply don't know. He's clearly holding something back. There's talk of an injury but it looks like he's managing his effort levels.

 

[alcoblade]

He was better last night - but from a very low base of late.

After 3 years, it’s fairly obvious what you’re getting with Berge. Any suggestion that he’s a top European footballer is now a joke.

He’s got something to offer for a championship team pushing for promotion - that’s about his level.

A £5m footballer would have had some continued spell of excellence in 3 years - he’s never demonstrated that.

Any sale above that value will just reflect the usual football world falling for lost reputations. “It will be different with us”. See Ollie Burke, Mouset.

 

[Nagima]

I think the biggest disappointment for me is that he only shows his quality in spurts. His main positive attribute is going forward on the right hand side to the endline and getting a cross in.
He seems to just drift out of games and let it pass him by. At other times he gives the ball but does not run for the return.
Late on in the game he carried the ball out of our defense played a good pass to Ndiaye and stopped when there was space to go into.

 

[100% part time blade]

I really like Berge as a player. I think it’s testament to how well we are playing that we are critical of his performances when looking across the whole squad in recent matches. I think if we had got him on a free after he’d seen out a contract, there may be less criticism from some quarters; and he can’t do much about the millions of pounds paid for him. Many of us are disappointed that we haven’t got a player as good as we thought we were getting. I wonder how that looks from the other side…
“You’re coming to a club in the top half of the English Premier League chasing a European place. Brilliant atmosphere here, against top teams - we’re taking points off Chelsea, Man United - investing in players, brand new state of the art training facilities on the way; we’re really going places. We really want you.”
A few transfer windows later, after relegation, concerns expressed by his international manager about where he’s ended up playing, injuries (at least one from being kicked or tripped or manhandled by championship players), sub-standard training facilities, and then being told to pack your suitcases and wait in a hotel room on transfer deadline day because we’d rather have the money than have you as a player now (providing it’s enough - which it wasn’t). He could maybe feel like it’s not quite what he was sold when he was persuaded to come here?
He’s shown no petulance though, no tantrums, no demands for special treatment or shady antics to get a move. He looks like he’s just got on with the job as best he possibly can. It’s not really a hard-luck story (“Man with incredibly well-paid job does job he is incredibly well-paid for”), but other players around the football world have shown a far less impressive work-ethic in similar circumstances!

 

[blader]

He’s fine. Most of my disappointment is that he is the first (only?) player in my lifetime that came with a real reputation and a supposed really high ceiling which now is quite clear doesn’t exist! He’s a decent championship player, very good on his day, I think we’d all just hoped for a bit more! Having said this, I don’t believe we’d be as high this season without him, so it’s how it goes

 

[Eels]

We bought him when we were in the Prem for what was big money for us - same with Brewster. If we were still up there we'd probably have paid similar fees for other players by now and there wouldn't be so much focus on him or his price. He's a decent player - a match winner at times but we expect so much more 'cos the money we paid still seems a fortune.

 

[100% part time blade]

He doesn’t seem to be anticipating/ gambling enough when we attack. And the game often bypasses him when we’re out of possession.

He seems to just drift out of games and let it pass him by. At other times he gives the ball but does not run for the return.
Late on in the game he carried the ball out of our defense played a good pass to Ndiaye and stopped when there was space to go into.

I commented on just this on Saturday at the game, and also on his covering. He does track back, but his defensive work is mainly running into a goal-side position, blocking off the obvious pass, and staying 1 or 2 yards away while the opponent selects another pass.

His attacking play often involves doing something (a run? a decent pass?) then letting others take over from there and dropping off.

I think he lacks confidence in himself and his ability. He sometimes doesn’t push on demanding the ball back with a mindset of ‘Give it me back! I’m brilliant! Give it me now!!’
It’s all a bit more ‘safe’. And I think he doesn’t back himself to win a tackle, or a tussle, if he jockeys someone for the ball in midfield, so he stands off.

And I think there is no mean, aggressive streak in him mentally. Can you imagine Sander scoring and giving it large to the opposition fans to rub their faces in it? No chance. That also comes across in his play in my view.

Players who are or were the opposite of this? Ndiaye and Gibbs-White: both absolutely full of confidence, backing themselves to do something brilliant with the ball every time (even though MGW often lost it!), constantly demanding it back, fully confident they’d pinch it from any opponent with the ball. That’s what I think is missing from Berge’s game.

The question I think is how do we get that level of confidence into his game which could really improve his contribution for us? [And I also agree, despite the above criticism, he has already contributed well at times to an excellent season for the team so far]

 

[derfblade.3]

I'm a big berge fan, he played well last night much better than the weekend when he was poor

So am i and with lots of cheese.

 

[Bladeloyal]

Give the lad time to get over injuries ,simple really he's a good player

 

[Norwood's 6 iron]

As I've said on another thread, his best spell came when linking up with McGoldrick, so the key to his hitting anything like his potential surely has to be his interplay with Ndiaye.

I'm loving how him putting in a 6/10 performance is getting people to start saying he's had a good game!! Like you say, Doyle was everything Berge wasnt/isnt! Athletic, committed, agile off the boy, aggressive when on the ball...

Would love to see us with Doyle and McAtee buzzing around behind Ndiaye and Jebbison. That really is the future!!

Playing Doyle and McAtee together just doesn't work. The last two league games where they started together were Blackpool 3-3 and Stoke (a) 1-3.
The only games where we have conceded more than two all season. It might have just been that we were on a poor run but you can't blame PH if he doesn't try it again, apart from the Cup where it doesn't matter.

 

[ReeceofBDTBL]

He played well last night, simple as. Last week he was horrifically bad.
Bigger clubs that are used to seeing talented players know when to have patience with a big talent.

His overall output this season has still been very good, yes he's frustrating but christ it'd be nice for him to have an injury free season and fulfil his potential with us.

I've seen enough bobby fords, michael doyles and nick montgomerys to last me a life time. Stick with Sander, he's still got what it takes to become a Blades legend.

 

[SwissBlade]

I commented on just this on Saturday at the game, and also on his covering. He does track back, but his defensive work is mainly running into a goal-side position, blocking off the obvious pass, and staying 1 or 2 yards away while the opponent selects another pass.

His attacking play often involves doing something (a run? a decent pass?) then letting others take over from there and dropping off.

I think he lacks confidence in himself and his ability. He sometimes doesn’t push on demanding the ball back with a mindset of ‘Give it me back! I’m brilliant! Give it me now!!’
It’s all a bit more ‘safe’. And I think he doesn’t back himself to win a tackle, or a tussle, if he jockeys someone for the ball in midfield, so he stands off.

And I think there is no mean, aggressive streak in him mentally. Can you imagine Sander scoring and giving it large to the opposition fans to rub their faces in it? No chance. That also comes across in his play in my view.

Players who are or were the opposite of this? Ndiaye and Gibbs-White: both absolutely full of confidence, backing themselves to do something brilliant with the ball every time (even though MGW often lost it!), constantly demanding it back, fully confident they’d pinch it from any opponent with the ball. That’s what I think is missing from Berge’s game.

The question I think is how do we get that level of confidence into his game which could really improve his contribution for us? [And I also agree, despite the above criticism, he has already contributed well at times to an excellent season for the team so far]

Can’t argue with that. I get the feeling that most of his football has been on the deck no tackling as he’s not a fan of getting stuck in or heading!

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Playing Doyle and McAtee together just doesn't work. The last two league games where they started together were Blackpool 3-3 and Stoke (a) 1-3.
The only games where we have conceded more than two all season. It might have just been that we were on a poor run but you can't blame PH if he doesn't try it again, apart from the Cup where it doesn't matter.

I'm argue "didn't" rather than "doesn't" ...

If we're learnt one thing about McAtee and Doyle it's that judging them on the basis of one game (McAtee - Luton / Doyle - QPR) is hasty...

I think the trajectory of both of them is up and the prospect of them with Jebbison/Ndiaye is very exciting...

 

[Houston_Blade]

The bloke behind me who shouted abuse at Norwood until recently has now turned his attention to Sander.

 

[Norwood's 6 iron]

I'm argue "didn't" rather than "doesn't" ...

If we're learnt one thing about McAtee and Doyle it's that judging them on the basis of one game (McAtee - Luton / Doyle - QPR) is hasty...

I think the trajectory of both of them is up and the prospect of them with Jebbison/Ndiaye is very exciting...

You maybe right but I'll be surprised if we see them starting a game together unless it is forced through injuries or suspensions.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

You maybe right but I'll be surprised if we see them starting a game together unless it is forced through injuries or suspensions.

Maybe. And if there's one criticism of Hecky, it's that he can be very rigid in his thinking at times...

Would love to see a side with McAtee, Doyle, Bogle, Ndiaye, Jebbison, Anel, RND, Lowe....

 

[Guesty]

Playing Doyle and McAtee together just doesn't work. The last two league games where they started together were Blackpool 3-3 and Stoke (a) 1-3.
The only games where we have conceded more than two all season. It might have just been that we were on a poor run but you can't blame PH if he doesn't try it again, apart from the Cup where it doesn't matter.

I think the Stoke defeat was more to do with four at the back (which the S24SU intelligentsia had been arguing for for weeks...) than McAtee and Doyle playing together.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I don’t think he’s fully fit. I don’t think he’s ever been. I’d love to see the data on his fitness from when he arrived to now, he’s certainly got fitter.

But I don’t think he’s quite on the Jack Robinson, Egan, Bash, Anel, Baldock or even levels of fitness. They’re machines.

It’s water under the bridge and he’s developed since he’s been here for sure, but I don’t think he was bought for the reason as you say. He was a player that at the time was offered to us. Don’t know if he was on Wilders radar back then but he was apparently extra to the list that wilder wanted, but then we didn’t get the others on wilders list… or at least that’s how the story went

For some reason, the distance run stat is hid from the public. On occasions some TV channels show them at half time though, and every now and then they get mentioned here and there. I think Berge struggled to adapt after his move, but in terms of distance run he was top every game. It's not always a great thing, it could mean a player wastes his energy chasing lost causes, achieving nothing. Of course the higher tempo was something that was new to him.

For me now he's still in the process of getting back to match fitness and confidence after his last injury and hopefully he'll keep improving towards the end of the season. I think he made a lot of positive contributions last night.

Long term he should be advised to improve his mobility/tenacity. Lots of people judge him by his height and complain about his lack of bravery/strength/heading and although weight lifting and muscle building may improve those attributes slightly it won't ever be what his game will be about. If he gets too heavy his mobility will suffer and he'll just become cumbersome. He is blessed with great pace and he should be looking to embrace that and develop his runs on and off the ball.

 

[Norwood's 6 iron]

I think the Stoke defeat was more to do with four at the back (which the S24SU intelligentsia had been arguing for for weeks...) than McAtee and Doyle playing together.

It's still a hell of a risk, at this stage of the season and the position we are in to drop Berge so that you can play both Doyle and McAtee.
PH might try it against Wrexham in the Cup, but won't risk it in the league, too much at stake.

 

[Guesty]

It's still a hell of a risk, at this stage of the season and the position we are in to drop Berge so that you can play both Doyle and McAtee.
PH might try it against Wrexham in the Cup, but won't risk it in the league, too much at stake.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I fear we'd lack presence with the two of them playing. I just don't think it was the main reason we lost at Stoke.

 

[Norwood's 6 iron]

I'm not saying you're wrong, I fear we'd lack presence with the two of them playing. I just don't think it was the main reason we lost at Stoke.

I'm not saying I'm right either and I'm not blaming them for that defeat as I think it was just a poor team performance. But the stats say that the two games that they started together we shipped 6 goals.
And I agree that when they play together we lack, as you say presence, but also a bit of experience and defensive capability.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I'm not saying I'm right either and I'm not blaming them for that defeat as I think it was just a poor team performance. But the stats say that the two games that they started together we shipped 6 goals.
And I agree that when they play together we lack, as you say presence, but also a bit of experience and defensive capability.

Nah, both have come on leaps and bounds since then (as young players tend to).

I'm argue Doyle now has more 'presence' than Norwood and Berge...

 

[sjl]

I'm a big berge fan, he played well last night much better than the weekend when he was poor

I feel a bit embarrassed that we are utilising and therefore benefiting from a player that we haven’t actually paid for.

 

[Keen Blade]

Our two most expensive players ever.
Return on investment.
Brewster disastrous.
Berge fair to middling but could be so much more effective if his character was more assertive.
Berge operates at about 60% of his potential.
He has the physique & skills but his mentality is lacking.
I don't know how they can ever coach him to be a different person.
One that goes on the pitch saying to himself "I am gonna boss this midfield , I am gonna be today's MoM. I am gonna head it , put tackles in , surge forward with the ball , make passes , put in crosses and if I see the whites of the goalposts I am gonna put an unstoppable shot on target. Because I can."
My goodness , the player he could be.