Injuries

[CaptainMorgans]

Why?
The exact same thing would happen if he rested him for another month.

If a player has been injured because of playing him while unfit, I'd agree.
Problem.is with this thread, there are a group of people who can't take a step back and think, they just want to blame PH for everything regardless.

Since PH has come in we have carried a high volume of injuries for the majority of the time. One comes back, one goes out.

He has previous of this with other clubs.

The cumulative effect of all of these injuries and the consistent nature at which we carry them is what raises the suspicions as to his squad management.
Particularly when we see things like him playing Bogle and Berge for too long. The training ground injuries. The setbacks players get to their timelines (Clark in particular). Comments about "forcing" players back early. His reluctance to rotate players and substitute for fresh legs during games.
Whether you think his methods are directly linked or not there's enough there to certainly begin to wonder and question whether it's all having an effect...

 

[blade too long]

Since PH has come in we have carried a high volume of injuries for the majority of the time. One comes back, one goes out.

He has previous of this with other clubs.

The cumulative effect of all of these injuries and the consistent nature at which we carry them is what raises the suspicions as to his squad management.
Particularly when we see things like him playing Bogle and Berge for too long. The training ground injuries. The setbacks players get to their timelines (Clark in particular). Comments about "forcing" players back early. His reluctance to rotate players and substitute for fresh legs during games.
Whether you think his methods are directly linked or not there's enough there to certainly begin to wonder and question whether it's all having an effect...

that would be a good argument if we were the only club with a large injury list
but reports show since football became more about training and closing and sheer pace injuries in general are double what they used to be across football

Liverpool in the seventies won the league title using just 14 players all season, and that's when tackling was brutal
they have used 14 subs in their last 3 games such is the physical demands on players now
cruciate ligament injuries are now a routine injury whereas we d never heard of it when Currie and Woodward played

Liverpool again shows us that even the richest clubs in Europe with all the best medical advice available still have a long list of players out injured
and are suffering from loss of players this season

mind you Klopp once spoke to Heckingbottom so maybe he's responsible for their injuries too

 

[Revolution]

Since PH has come in we have carried a high volume of injuries for the majority of the time. One comes back, one goes out.

He has previous of this with other clubs.

I have heard this before. Is there evidence of this?

I only checked his Hibs spell out but the team he put out there was pretty consistent throughout.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Since PH has come in we have carried a high volume of injuries for the majority of the time. One comes back, one goes out.

He has previous of this with other clubs.

The cumulative effect of all of these injuries and the consistent nature at which we carry them is what raises the suspicions as to his squad management.
Particularly when we see things like him playing Bogle and Berge for too long. The training ground injuries. The setbacks players get to their timelines (Clark in particular). Comments about "forcing" players back early. His reluctance to rotate players and substitute for fresh legs during games.
Whether you think his methods are directly linked or not there's enough there to certainly begin to wonder and question whether it's all having an effect...

Yes. And each one has to be looked at case by case.
Training ground is an old issue. Now fixed. Not PH.
Berge, not PH issue.
Bogle not PH issue.

It's fine people asking questions, but at the moment it isn't that. There's a group who point at PH regardless, don't ask the question and consider the facts, it's 'just PH again' .

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

I have heard this before. Is there evidence of this?

I only checked his Hibs spell out but the team he put out there was pretty consistent throughout.

Evidence won't matter to lots of our fans.

 

[blade too long]

we must be one of the few fan bases in football that some want their manager out whilst sitting top of the championship as close to getting back in the prem as possible

the lack of positivity within our fan base is astounding

the constant need to find negatives is mind blowing

if we had pep guardiola as manager hed get slagged off as not good enough, and get called tactically inept after a draw

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

we must be one of the few fan bases in football that some want their manager out whilst sitting top of the championship as close to getting back in the prem as possible

the lack of positivity within our fan base is astounding

the constant need to find negatives is mind blowing

if we had pep guardiola as manager hed get slagged off as not good enough, and get called tactically inept after a draw

TBF only seen one on here that wants Hecky gone?

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

TBF only seen one on here that wants Hecky gone?

There's lots eager to have a pop, regardless of considering each thing case by case.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

There's lots eager to have a pop, regardless of considering each thing case by case.

But I mean anyone wanting him gone is obviously a WUM. Criticism is fine for anyone, we all have it? The injuries are my major concern with never no improvements.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

But I mean anyone wanting him gone is obviously a WUM. Criticism is fine for anyone, we all have it? The injuries are my major concern with never no improvements.

But why criticise the wrong person? Or criticise anybody? For example, Berge, the only person to crisis the bloke who booted him.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

we must be one of the few fan bases in football that some want their manager out whilst sitting top of the championship as close to getting back in the prem as possible

the lack of positivity within our fan base is astounding

the constant need to find negatives is mind blowing

I think there's one poster, out of possibly thousands on here, that says they want Heckingbottom out. And even then, I think he's a WUM. You're exaggerating to court favour.

You're unlikely to find much positivity in a thread titled 'Injuries' when approximately half our squad are consistently injured and it's now resulting in a major decline in form.
1 point in 9.
You can go on about being "top of the league" but it isn't going to last long on our current form. The injury crisis shows no signs of abating.

 

[Bladesman]

we must be one of the few fan bases in football that some want their manager out whilst sitting top of the championship as close to getting back in the prem as possible

the lack of positivity within our fan base is astounding

the constant need to find negatives is mind blowing

if we had pep guardiola as manager hed get slagged off as not good enough, and get called tactically inept after a draw

No one wants him out but we can be critical of the situation regarding injuries.

Also, if current form continues we won't be sitting top of the league for very long anyway.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

But why criticise the wrong person? Or criticise anybody? For example, Berge, the only person to crisis the bloke who booted him.

The life of a football fan to be positive, negative, praise, criticise, agreed and disagree. Obviously this forum gives everyone an opinion and people take em more serious when sat at home scrolling through.

 

[Rudders]

Ok.
So I like watching Hecki's brand of high intensity football when we are good we are very good.
We are top of the league.
We must have to train at high intensity to keep this up. If it works and we get promoted it will be worth the injuries along the way.

One of the things I have noticed is that a lot of teams like QPR etc have had to foul and injure our players to stop them (ie we see regular assaults on Berge and N'Diaye). There doesn't seem to be the same protection for players this year with the changed interpretations from championship refs of how physical tackles can be. A couple of suggestions from me:

• transfer in a very very strong, tall, aggressive and hard midfield player at Christmas to kick the f**k out of the opposition. (Not saying select them for every game but when needed ie Stoke away, QPR home - where we got ragged about a bit. A couple of 'reducers' on the sly twats who injured our players prior would have been useful). Then let our fair players do the damage.
• Better, more careful, management of our key assets (ie they dont have to train quite as hard or play as many minutes, thinking Anel; Berge; N'Diaye; Bogle; McBurnie etc). We can 'afford' injuries to 'squad' players more easily than our 'best' or 'key' players...
• Wrapping up in cotton wool of left sided defenders when it became clear that Clark was out for months (will he ever come back?). Alarm bells should have been ringing due to the lack of left sided cover and that Robinson also had a similar long term injury. We should have protected in particular protected Max Lowe and should be looking after RND.

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

that would be a good argument if we were the only club with a large injury list
but reports show since football became more about training and closing and sheer pace injuries in general are double what they used to be across football

Liverpool in the seventies won the league title using just 14 players all season, and that's when tackling was brutal
they have used 14 subs in their last 3 games such is the physical demands on players now
cruciate ligament injuries are now a routine injury whereas we d never heard of it when Currie and Woodward played

Liverpool again shows us that even the richest clubs in Europe with all the best medical advice available still have a long list of players out injured
and are suffering from loss of players this season

mind you Klopp once spoke to Heckingbottom so maybe he's responsible for their injuries too

Liverpool also lost 3 players to injury in the game against Arsenal and have quite a high level of injured players. It must be their state of the art training pitches or Klopp doesn’t know what he is doing

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

I think there's one poster, out of possibly thousands on here, that says they want Heckingbottom out. And even then, I think he's a WUM. You're exaggerating to court favour.

You're unlikely to find much positivity in a thread titled 'Injuries' when approximately half our squad are consistently injured and it's now resulting in a major decline in form.
1 point in 9.
You can go on about being "top of the league" but it isn't going to last long on our current form. The injury crisis shows no signs of abating.

No one wants him out but we can be critical of the situation regarding injuries.

Also, if current form continues we won't be sitting top of the league for very long anyway.

how many minutes should the players be getting at the weekend?

 

[CPB]

I'd argue that the injury issues properly started post covid with JOC and we've had our fair share of injury issues since then.

Last season before Hecky was installed we still had injuries. We do seem to have had a particularly bad run in the past 10months. Hopefully we will get more fit and get more luck with these injuries.

At least Baldock and Anel are back with Fleck soon. Few more will probably return in the next few weeks.

Of course this doesn't account for any new injuries!

 

[CaptainMorgans]

I'd argue that the injury issues properly started post covid with JOC and we've had our fair share of injury issues since then.

Last season before Hecky was installed we still had injuries. We do seem to have had a particularly bad run in the past 10months. Hopefully we will get more fit and get more luck with these injuries.

At least Baldock and Anel are back with Fleck soon. Few more will probably return in the next few weeks.

Of course this doesn't account for any new injuries!

It's the "new injuries" part that worries me most. 8 games in 4 weeks coming up.
A dozen out injured.
It means we either have to put out the same bodies every week (many of them returning from injuries themselves) or use the kids. I hope we do the latter and try to preserve what we have, even if it means less points in the short term.
.

 

[blade too long]

TBF only seen one on here that wants Hecky gone?

I can say with impunity its quite a few more than one

 

[georgebernardshaw]

But why criticise the wrong person? Or criticise anybody? For example, Berge, the only person to crisis the bloke who booted him.

It’s the shit talking on shoutbox, comments without emojis, that fucks with peoples heads

 

[themaninblack]

Updated guesses (big emphasis) following the latest media round. A pretty depressing listen....

Bad news on Jayden Bogle & Sander Berge. But did anybody really expect anything else?
PH flogged a very tired-looking Sander Berge way too hard after the international break. He looked knackered and ineffective, yet we kept sticking him out for consecutive 90 minutes. Low and behold, last minute of the game, he picks up an injury. OK, it's from a challenge... but he shouldn't have even been on the pitch.
Likewise, Bogle. Very, very early into his comeback after a lengthy lay-off.... 77 minutes until we bring him off. Injured. We'll be lucky if we see him again this year.
What on earth is going on with PH's squad management? Short-sighted and borderline negligent.

Anyway, some good news... Ben Osborn returned on Saturday and it also sounds like Baldock, Ahmedhodzic and Fleck might be available now too.
However, Heckingbottom's comments in his post-Stoke-match interview about "forcing" players back into the fold are of deep concern. If these lads aren't 100% (and this applies for anyone returning) I'd much rather we were patient. I wouldn't even be against us dropping out of the top six between now and the world cup break if it meant we managed the squad correctly and gave ourselves the best possible chance of having something close to a full set of options thereafter.
Have also moved Coulibaly forward by a month. It seems we're considering a loan move for him again which must mean he is due back sometime before Feb'23. Seems pretty pie-in-the-sky thinking to me though... I'd be very surprised if our circumstances allow for any outward movement. Got to feel sorry for the likes of Kyron Gordon and particularly Daniel Jebbison who's development is now being held back by all this.


G Baldock - mid-October 2022 - oblique strain

A Ahmedhodzic - mid-October 2022 (3 weeks) - thigh strain

J Fleck - mid-October 2022 (2 months) - broken leg

J Robinson - late-October 2022 (4 months) - knee ligaments

C Clark - November 2022 (3 months) - hamstring

E Stevens - November 2022 (3 months) - hamstring

S Berge - December 2022 (2 months) - ankle ligament

J Bogle - January 2023 (3 months) - knee

M Lowe - January 2023 (4 months) - hamstring

I Coulibaly - January 2023 (5 months) - knee ligaments

J O'Connell - unlikely to return.

Could you please let me know how long George, Flecky and Ahmedhodzic should be allowed to play in their comeback games?

 

[Keen Blade]

Hopefully in Clark's case back at Newcastle in January

Disastrous signing
And by the way Macca said before Preston he was the closest to coming back, so where is he?

Return for refund. Not fit for purpose.

 

[Bladesman]

Hecky said in his interview in with Alan Partridge that Sander could actually be back for the Cardiff game but we are giving him the WC break to recover.

As for Bogle I reckon he is probably done for the season.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

But why criticise the wrong person? Or criticise anybody? For example, Berge, the only person to crisis the bloke who booted him.

You're seeing things too black & white.
Yes, the injury was caused through contact.
That doesn't also mean PH was right to play him for a full 90 mins in back to back games post-international break.

 

[Frank the tank]

You're seeing things too black & white.
Yes, the injury was caused through contact.
That doesn't also mean PH was right to play him for a full 90 mins in back to back games post-international break.

You've decided heckingbottom is to blame for these injuries and are just using everything and anything to.support that view

 

[Snowflake]

Evidence won't matter to lots of our fans.

It might be important to McB next month !!

 

[Servigliano]

It would be interesting to know the comparative fitness levels of vaxxed v. unvaxxed pro footballers. The clubs will have the metrics of, for example, the Vox efficiency of their multi million pound assets. Liverpool anyone? ( I know they won yesterday)- Just look at Klopp's views on the unvaxxed...
I believe about 40% of EFL players have resisted the jab. It would be interesting to see where we stand on that one.

Collapsing whilst engaged in strenuous activity may attract headlines but the more common problem is one of micro clots which have an adverse effect on fitness/recovery. It is a well known fact that mRNA jabs can induce blood clots.
Oh, and before I get trashed, - yes, I have had a career dependant upon my knowledge of immunology and vaccinology.
And please don't say it's due to covid as opposed to the vax. Not many athletes collapsed prior to the jabs, but if you're still tempted to say so just do some research on nucleocapsids.

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

It would be interesting to know the comparative fitness levels of vaxxed v. unvaxxed pro footballers. The clubs will have the metrics of, for example, the Vox efficiency of their multi million pound assets. Liverpool anyone? ( I know they won yesterday)- Just look at Klopp's views on the unvaxxed...
I believe about 40% of EFL players have resisted the jab. It would be interesting to see where we stand on that one.

Collapsing whilst engaged in strenuous activity may attract headlines but the more common problem is one of micro clots which have an adverse effect on fitness/recovery. It is a well known fact that mRNA jabs can induce blood clots.
Oh, and before I get trashed, - yes, I have had a career dependant upon my knowledge of immunology and vaccinology.
And please don't say it's due to covid as opposed to the vax. Not many athletes collapsed prior to the jabs, but if you're still tempted to say so just do some research on nucleocapsids.

Well, apparently we required or at least preferred any signings last January to be vaccinated, so that might give you a good indication as to the status of the majority of our players

We know McBurnie hasn't taken it..... and look at his upturn compared to the majority! Fair play to him

This is something I'd be very interested to see the data on, but will we ever? Doubtful. Especially if it reveals anything inconvenient...

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

You're seeing things too black & white.
Yes, the injury was caused through contact.
That doesn't also mean PH was right to play him for a full 90 mins in back to back games post-international break.

That's not the discussion though. People are saying the injury is heckys fault.
Same for Bogle.
It is black and white. Not his fault.

There's loads in football that is debate, and that's why the forum is all about. These injuries don't fall into that category.

 

[Davalon]

Since PH has come in we have carried a high volume of injuries for the majority of the time. One comes back, one goes out.

He has previous of this with other clubs.

The cumulative effect of all of these injuries and the consistent nature at which we carry them is what raises the suspicions as to his squad management.
Particularly when we see things like him playing Bogle and Berge for too long. The training ground injuries. The setbacks players get to their timelines (Clark in particular). Comments about "forcing" players back early. His reluctance to rotate players and substitute for fresh legs during games.
Whether you think his methods are directly linked or not there's enough there to certainly begin to wonder and question whether it's all having an effect...

I really like Hecky and I hold my hands up, I was concerned he was a patsy for the club at one stage.

As for our prolonged injury situation, I can't help but think it's not just bad luck. That doesn't mean I blame Hecky or any other individual for that matter.

I don't know the facts but I feel its a little naive to just assume it's all just bad luck. Just like I don't think the good injury situation under Wilder was just good luck.

Two managers have blamed training pitches, we've brought Little in, i seem to notice different physios on match day over the last year, and we've had a few ops that haven't worked as well as they could.

Obviously there are a variety of reasons for all the injuries, including some fate, but I hope and expect the club are robustly looking at every element.

Imho injuries are the only factor that will stop us being promoted.