Tom Lawrence

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In my opinion this is exactly the type of player we should be avoiding.

He's cost Derby a lot, in more ways than one, over the last 5 years. In return he's given them 36 goals, 36 yellow cards and 4 reds. Let's not obsess about stats but they do tell a bit of a story. They aren't the figures a talented talisman delivers.

It's easy to fall into the trap of chasing players who usually have a good game against you. See Jake Cooper. We don't see them fail to turn up the rest of the time.

In my opinion, all of the lads let go by MUFC while still young seem to have a chip on their shoulder and/or hit their technical ceiling before playing regular professional football. Very few go on and build a top level career. Maybe Michael Keane has made the most of himself, and that probably highlights the point.

I'm véry happy to let WBA push themselves further towards a shit or bust situation by throwing money at players of this calibre.

If we bring him in and he smashes in 20 goals as we are promoted, I'll gladly look a fool. It won't change the fact that, today, he doesn't fit the profile of what we're after and isn't the kind of dice we should be rolling.
 
Panini said:
In my opinion this is exactly the type of player we should be avoiding.

He's cost Derby a lot, in more ways than one, over the last 5 years. In return he's given them 36 goals, 36 yellow cards and 4 reds. Let's not obsess about stats but they do tell a bit of a story. They aren't the figures a talented talisman delivers.

It's easy to fall into the trap of chasing players who usually have a good game against you. See Jake Cooper. We don't see them fail to turn up the rest of the time.

In my opinion, all of the lads let go by MUFC while still young seem to have a chip on their shoulder and/or hit their technical ceiling before playing regular professional football. Very few go on and build a top level career. Maybe Michael Keane has made the most of himself, and that probably highlights the point.

I'm véry happy to let WBA push themselves further towards a shit or bust situation by throwing money at players of this calibre.

If we bring him in and he smashes in 20 goals as we are promoted, I'll gladly look a fool. It won't change the fact that, today, he doesn't fit the profile of what we're after and isn't the kind of dice we should be rolling.
Click to expand...

Or Luke fucking Freeman.
 
Champagneblade said:
What makes you say that? I'm not contesting. It's just that he is their captain so it would be odd for him to be selected as the on field leader if his attitude was poor.
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Think he posted a photo of him playing golf with that guy who's bid to buy Derby had just collapsed which doesn't seem wise to me...
 
We could do with a goal scoring inside left. But there are endless stories about his attitude.
 
Berkshire Blade said:
Think he posted a photo of him playing golf with that guy who's bid to buy Derby had just collapsed which doesn't seem wise to me...
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I saw that. But folk are too sensitive.

He played golf with some mates including the prospective owner.

It didn't work out. Hardly his fault or something for fans to get touchy about.

Not like he was posting a four ball with Gary Glitter, Harold Shipman and Gary Megson is it? 😁
 
Champagneblade said:
I saw that. But folk are too sensitive.

He played golf with some mates including the prospective owner.

It didn't work out. Hardly his fault or something for fans to get touchy about.

Not like he was posting a four ball with Gary Glitter, Harold Shipman and Gary Megson is it? 😁
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Went to play a round of golf at Abbeydale the other day, my mate cried off at the last minute so I was left to play a round on my own. When I got to the first tee there were two players about to tee off, when they realized I was on my own they invited me to join them. One of them was Gary Megson and I must say what a pleasure it was to play 18 holes with them. His mate was a Blade and we ribbed him all the way round and he took it in good spirit as well as getting one or two digs in at us, you can only judge as you find and I found him an OK bloke.
 
Bladesthorpe said:
Went to play a round of golf at Abbeydale the other day, my mate cried off at the last minute so I was left to play a round on my own. When I got to the first tee there were two players about to tee off, when they realized I was on my own they invited me to join them. One of them was Gary Megson and I must say what a pleasure it was to play 18 holes with them. His mate was a Blade and we ribbed him all the way round and he took it in good spirit as well as getting one or two digs in at us, you can only judge as you find and I found him an OK bloke.
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Ban him Linz he's turned!
 
Bladesthorpe said:
Went to play a round of golf at Abbeydale the other day, my mate cried off at the last minute so I was left to play a round on my own. When I got to the first tee there were two players about to tee off, when they realized I was on my own they invited me to join them. One of them was Gary Megson and I must say what a pleasure it was to play 18 holes with them. His mate was a Blade and we ribbed him all the way round and he took it in good spirit as well as getting one or two digs in at us, you can only judge as you find and I found him an OK bloke.
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I read this and a little bit of sick came into my mouth.
 

Champagneblade said:
What makes you say that? I'm not contesting. It's just that he is their captain so it would be odd for him to be selected as the on field leader if his attitude was poor.
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Perhaps being given the captaincy has matured him but there is evidence of him being a troubled soul / wrong-un both on and off the pitch as well as lots of unpublished tales.

www.derbytelegraph.co.uk

Derby County pair in court for drink-driving: how the day unfolded

Rams players Tom Lawrence and Mason Bennett have been sentenced
www.derbytelegraph.co.uk www.derbytelegraph.co.uk

www.derbytelegraph.co.uk

Derby fans furious at Tom Lawrence after 'unforgivable' red card

Derby County captain Tom Lawrence was sent off early in the second half against Peterborough United and supporters are furious
www.derbytelegraph.co.uk www.derbytelegraph.co.uk

www.derbytelegraph.co.uk

Rams star opens up on his grief, mistakes and traumatic journey

Tom Lawrence reveals his battle to cope following the death of his mother but the Rams' Welsh international says he is in a good place mentally at the moment
www.derbytelegraph.co.uk www.derbytelegraph.co.uk
 
Torrix1889 said:
If there is a sniff of a chance of signing Tom Lawrence get it fucking done.
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Good job Utd didn't spend all their budget on Rothwell and the "lad from Blackpool" you liked the look of if you really want them to sign Lawrence isn't it? Unless of course you want Utd to sign 3 CAMs.
 
tyke1889 said:
Ollie Norwood didn't do too badly though 😉
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He's made a very tidy living and enjoyed a decent career, including being part of something special here. Credit to him. Not sure he would've taken it if offered as a teenager, though. He's also been binned off after two promotions to the Premier League and was arguably the worst of a bad bunch in our relegation season. My point was that players leaving MUFC when young virtually never go into to have top level careers and unfortunately Norwood doesn't disprove that.

Mouth of the South said:
Or David Platt or Robbie Savage
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Yeah I was thinking about the "academy" era. Post-2000, maybe post-1992. Very, very few youngsters leave Man United and go on to fulfil their potential. Loads rocking up at EFL clubs with attitude problems or just simply aren't good enough but have been told for years that they're amazing.

Platt and Savage came through years before the crop I'm talking about.

In any case, Savage has done very well out of football but if we're looking for an example of a player without a chip on his shoulder or who developed into a technically gifted player, I'm not sure he's one to highlight.
 
Bladesthorpe said:
Went to play a round of golf at Abbeydale the other day, my mate cried off at the last minute so I was left to play a round on my own. When I got to the first tee there were two players about to tee off, when they realized I was on my own they invited me to join them. One of them was Gary Megson and I must say what a pleasure it was to play 18 holes with them. His mate was a Blade and we ribbed him all the way round and he took it in good spirit as well as getting one or two digs in at us, you can only judge as you find and I found him an OK bloke.
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If he was that decent a bloke I'm surprised he didn't phone his mate Carlton to nip down and make up a four.

Oh hang on...
 
Champagneblade said:
What makes you say that? I'm not contesting. It's just that he is their captain so it would be odd for him to be selected as the on field leader if his attitude was poor.
Click to expand...
Had issues off and on the pitch all through his career. We have had too many of them.

Ask Derby fans. He's been one of those who plays well one in 3 games. He's a selfish player and doesn't seem to take it seriously or give his all

Rooney made him captain to try and change him, knowing they were stuck with his wages. He was better last season but unconvinced.

He reminds me of Baxter as bit. These type of players never seem to work out for us.
 
Oh my god. MGW is literally 10x the player Lawrence is, and also a very different player. You feed him the ball in the final 3rd and he shows off and hits one from 35 yards or tries to take 6 men on. It’s worked about three times in the last 5 years and those are the YouTube highlights and that’s why people are suggesting signing him.

If we are talking about replacing MGW with someone it’s more like Diego jota or foden than tom fucking Lawrence. MGW would drop into midfield, DEMAND the ball, he would take it upon himself to grab the game by the scruff of the neck, and dictate the tempo of the game, if he didn’t get it, he would win it himself, then drive forward taking men on to take them out of the game, then 30 yards from goal, make the correct decision, laying it off or going himself. It was all about the team and never about him showing off, even though he had the techincal ability to do literally whatever he wanted, he was never interested in showing off to prove his individual talent. Everything he did was for the team; which as much as I’ve seen Lawrence, seems the exact opposite.

I’m not totally against the signing but only if he is one of three players to replace MGW.

Lawrence/Chong/Twine - that would be an adequate replacement for MGW, all three. None of these touch MGW, he’s so fucking good and you’ll see that when he’s at athletico or somewhere in Europe tearing it up. I feel like some united fans don’t quite understand just how much of a cheat code MGW was.

Also, people saying he is in some way a role model is fucking funny. Just because he’s about 30 doesn’t mean he’s a leader. Didn’t he drink drive once with three of Derby’s biggest influential players? Forcing a year ban, they could have probably done with them during the relegation run in.

He will come here because it’s local. We will offer him decent money. And it will be a free ride for him. If he wanted to rip it up he probably would have done it before now. This is exactly the signing we should be avoiding IMO unless it is part of a three pronged signing. If Lawrence is the MGW replacement we will fall an awful long way short IMO.
 
Yeah but did you see those goals he scored against us last season!?!?! Omg wow.

Yeah that was when Derby were playing a low block, with Lawrence plus a striker as an outlet. His instructions were to try something crazy if they got the ball, because they were playing for a point in both games. If he can produce something insane then let him try. It worked, 1 in a million.. don’t be fooled by that.

If he was playing for us where we are going to have the majority of possession and we are trying to break teams down it’s going to require a bit more patience and magic to unlock a defence than just smashing it from 50 yards because it’s a bonus he has the ball. It’s different setups, tactics, systems. We need him to be clever, patient, intelligent. Creating overloads, waiting for the right second to play someone in. That’s not his game. His game is smashing it from 40 yards and living off the YouTube highlights. He is not a Duffy or a didzy. We need someone to fill the gap between midfield and attack; we don’t need a talisman or a highlight reel guy.

Perhaps if we were in the prem I would be more on board.

I’m against this signing.
 
Panini said:
My point was that players leaving MUFC when young virtually never go into to have top level careers and unfortunately Norwood doesn't disprove that.
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I don’t think that’s a uniquely Man United problem. Top clubs produce hundreds of players and the vast, vast majority of them are let go. Statistically, 0.5% of players in academies will ever sign a professional contract.

Whilst Lawrence hasn’t had a particularly notable career in the grand scheme of things, he’s played in the top flight and been capped for his country. This is a lot more than what most academy players could even dream of.


And in regards to Man United players not making it- the exact opposite is true. In 21/22 Man United had produced 71 players who were playing in the top flight.

71.

This is 19 ahead of second place Chelsea and 25 ahead of third place Everton.
Manchester United are also the highest producer of players in the Championship.

Since your point was explicitly about players who left Man United early, here some other notable examples of players who were let go young and went on to have decent careers at top-flight: Paul Pogba, Ryan Shawcross, Josh King, Michael Keane, Gerard Pique, Danny Drinkwater, Tom Heaton, etc.

If you cast your net for how early they were let go, and what level of football can be considered ‘top’ then it looks even better for Man United. As it’s extremely rare to transition through from academy to professional football- players like Tom Lawrence, Oli Norwood, Frazier Campbell, Will Keane, James Chester, among others, have all had decent careers, even if not consistently at top flight level.

Whilst there will always be James Wilsons or Febian Brandys, it seems quite reductive to make sweeping statements on all these people as if they’re all moulded exactly the same, when there’s 108 Man United produced players between the Premier League, Championship and League 1.
 
Willglynning said:
I don’t think that’s a uniquely Man United problem. Top clubs produce hundreds of players and the vast, vast majority of them are let go. Statistically, 0.5% of players in academies will ever sign a professional contract.

Whilst Lawrence hasn’t had a particularly notable career in the grand scheme of things, he’s played in the top flight and been capped for his country. This is a lot more than what most academy players could even dream of.


And in regards to Man United players not making it- the exact opposite is true. In 21/22 Man United had produced 71 players who were playing in the top flight.

71.

This is 19 ahead of second place Chelsea and 25 ahead of third place Everton.
Manchester United are also the highest producer of players in the Championship.

Since your point was explicitly about players who left Man United early, here some other notable examples of players who were let go young and went on to have decent careers at top-flight: Paul Pogba, Ryan Shawcross, Josh King, Michael Keane, Gerard Pique, Danny Drinkwater, Tom Heaton, etc.

If you cast your net for how early they were let go, and what level of football can be considered ‘top’ then it looks even better for Man United. As it’s extremely rare to transition through from academy to professional football- players like Tom Lawrence, Oli Norwood, Frazier Campbell, Will Keane, James Chester, among others, have all had decent careers, even if not consistently at top flight level.

Whilst there will always be James Wilsons or Febian Brandys, it seems quite reductive to make sweeping statements on all these people as if they’re all moulded exactly the same, when there’s 108 Man United produced players between the Premier League, Championship and League 1.
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Which is why when people act like 5 or 6 or more of our youth set up are going to make it astound me. The class of 92 is famous as it's so rare.


Anyway it seems Lawrence has gone to west brom...
 
Berkshire Blade said:
Which is why when people act like 5 or 6 or more of our youth set up are going to make it astound me. The class of 92 is famous as it's so rare.


Anyway it seems Lawrence has gone to west brom...
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I'm also unsure why there's such a lack of understanding that playing in the league 1 equivalent of a youth League isn't the same as playing in the Premier League equivalent of a youth League.

If anyone talks about signing the latter all hell breaks loose about blocking the former. Like they're the same calibre of player.

Look at Boyes'. Did great last season on loan in the conference and just signed up to play league 1 football next season. He's 20 though and not going to be playing at this level until at least 21. If he makes the jump. And that's a big if.
 

robbiez666 said:
I'm also unsure why there's such a lack of understanding that playing in the league 1 equivalent of a youth League isn't the same as playing in the Premier League equivalent of a youth League.

If anyone talks about signing the latter all hell breaks loose about blocking the former. Like they're the same calibre of player.

Look at Boyes'. Did great last season on loan in the conference and just signed up to play league 1 football next season. He's 20 though and not going to be playing at this level until at least 21. If he makes the jump. And that's a big if.
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Agree Robbie - some seem to think that just because a small number of teenager are good enough to play at a high level, all should be. Those championing the promotion of young lads (a small number of whom may one day be able to play at Champ level or above, but most won't) that have gained limited experience in L2 or below to the first team really have no idea. The gulf in class is huge - how many of them could make the equivalent jump from Sunday League to North East Counties or Northern Premier League?
 
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