Sander Berge Haters

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FallowfieldBlade said:
If you don’t get how good Berge is at this level at least, then you never will

The bloke is a rolls Royce of a player

That was his second start since been out for 3/4 months also

If you want your players to run about and tackle then support Birmingham
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He’s a Rolls Royce in a ploughed field...Desperately need a tractor.
 
alcoblade said:
Straw man alert - unless of course you can find a post on this thread that backs that up?

By your logic, we’d still have Moose, and be complaining that Ndiaye works too hard and looks like Monty.

You can only influence games by being involved. Infiencuong fanes is a combination of quality and involvement.

He scores 8/10 for offensive quality, 3/10 for defensive quality and and 1/10 for involvement. The likes of Messi and Ronaldo (forget Monty) don’t dine out on one quality moment every 5 matches.
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Put together a coherent argument and I’ll steelman the hell out of it. My (slightly obnoxious, granted) points are:
1. Berge generates more criticism than he warrants in my opinion. As I’ve said before, watching him you can see the ability. He reminds me of Kevin McDonald.
2. Price tag is constantly brought up, which I feel is irrelevant. He’s not taken the piss like Moose, the lad did pretty well against Premier League opposition, and now is recovering from a bad injury.
3. In general, blades of a certain ilk tend to favour effect and work rate over ability. This has been implied several times on this thread if not expressly stated.
 
alcoblade said:
There’s a few of you clearly struggling with basic English, that’s for certain.

Anyway, where were we? The suggestion that the strongest position is a defensive, midfield role for someone who’s hopeless at defending…..wibble! 😂
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Oh no, the I have nothing else in my locker let’s pick out some grammars post, let me please apologise for not taking time out to go through my post and check it, how rude of me to think you not worthy of wasting anymore of my time

As for your wibble mate, if you can find someone who actually knows what they are talking about regarding defensive abilities then I’m happy to carry on
 
Mojo said:
Berge reminds me of Coutts pre wilder days. You could tell there was a decent player there but he got absolute pelters on here.
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Some truth in the comparison. But also it wasn't that Coutts got pelters because 90% thought he was playing shit and just couldn't see the quality it's that he was playing shit.

That's the difference between a player having ability and then being able to turn that into performances on a Saturday at 3pm (not that we get to play Saturday at 3pm, but I digress). Carruthers had some decent basics skills but there is a reason he's not playing league football anymore. Fortunately Coutts was able to bridge that gap until he sadly got injured.

Maybe also part of what we loved about Chris was also his undoing. Early on he more or less said a midfielder is a midfielder. They should be able to pass, shoot, tackle etc. We liked his basic, down to earth expectations.

That's reasonable lower down that if they have aspirations to play higher they should be able to be competent at every facet at a lower level. At the very top players get given specific roles for their club to make marginal gains because there are skills they are comparatively strong or deficient in, so managers want to accentuate one and shield the other. Take Michael Brown as the example - great all-rounder in the Championship for us. Seen as not more than a defensive midfielder at the top level.

This has been touched upon before but Chris bought what he thought were good players in their own right but the ability to adapt if the role you're coming into is slightly misaligned with your skillset is less forgiving the higher up you go:

1. Callum Robinson - suited as a wide forward in a 4-3-3 or 3-4-3. Not suited as a central striker in a 2. Might get away with it in the second tier. Absolutely didn't in the first.
2. Oliver Burke - Winger. Not suited as a centre forward in a two at top level. Lower down his pace alone might be enough to 'wing it', no pun intended!
3. Jack Robinson - Full time career left back, part time centre back. Absolutely found out at the top level early on e.g. Leeds at home.
4. Oli McBurnie - both myself and FallowfieldBlade have made reference to Chris' attempt to turn Oli McBurnie into a Premier League Jon Parkin when this absolutely wasn't his game at all. See his jinking run goal he scored against the Pigs for reference.
5. Sander.

It might be that we can get the best out of him slightly further forward this season and take advantage of his presence when he goes on a run. But Chris seemed to think Sander would replace Lundstram as a more imposing box to box Steven Gerrard. Anyone who saw his highlights reel from Genk would see that wasn't his game. He was more Didi Hamman than Steven Gerrard. Or if you like, more Paul Coutts than a right footed John Fleck.

So maybe he can be more all action at this level but eventually you have to play them to their strengths or expect less than optimal performances.
 
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A Storm of Blades said:
Put together a coherent argument and I’ll steelman the hell out of it. My (slightly obnoxious, granted) points are:
1. Berge generates more criticism than he warrants in my opinion. As I’ve said before, watching him you can see the ability. He reminds me of Kevin McDonald.
2. Price tag is constantly brought up, which I feel is irrelevant. He’s not taken the piss like Moose, the lad did pretty well against Premier League opposition, and now is recovering from a bad injury.
3. In general, blades of a certain ilk tend to favour effect and work rate over ability. This has been implied several times on this thread if not expressly stated.
Click to expand...
My favourite players are currently MGW and Ndiaye. Technically great and really hard working. My long term favourites are the likes of Basham and Sharp - good at the messier stuff, but hard working.

Elsewhere Ronaldo, Messi - technically out if this world, but also hard working.

There’s a theme there. Everyone loves hard work, yes. I can guarantee I’d give you that, but zero Blades fans would love to see me in the shirt.
 
Champagneblade said:
Some truth in the comparison. But also it wasn't that Coutts got pelters because 90% thought he was playing shit and just couldn't see the quality it's that he was playing shit.

That's the difference between a player having ability and then being able to turn that into performances on a Saturday at 3pm (not that we get to play Saturday at 3pm, but I digress). Carruthers had some decent basics skills but there is a reason he's not playing league football anymore. Fortunately Coutts was able to bridge that gap until he sadly got injured.

Maybe also part of what we loved about Chris was also his undoing. Early on he more or less said a midfielder is a midfielder. They should be able to pass, shoot, tackle etc. We liked his basic, down to earth expectations.

That's reasonable lower down that if they have aspirations to play higher they should be able to be competent at every facet at a lower level. At the very top players get given specific roles for their club to make marginal gains because there are skills they are comparatively strong or deficient in, so managers want to accentuate one and shield the other. Take Michael Brown as the example - great all-rounder in the Championship for us. Seen as not more than a defensive midfielder at the top level.

This has been touched upon before but Chris bought what he thought were good players in their own right but the ability to adapt if the role you're coming into is slightly misaligned with your skillset is less forgiving the higher up you go:

1. Callum Robinson - suited as a wide forward in a 4-3-3 or 3-4-3. Not suited as a central striker in a 2. Might get away with it in the second tier. Absolutely didn't in the first.
2. Oliver Burke - Winger. Not suited as a centre forward in a two at top level. Lower down his pace alone might be enough to 'wing it', no pun intended!
3. Jack Robinson - Full time career left back, part time centre back. Absolutely found out at the top level early on e.g. Leeds at home.
4. Oli McBurnie - both myself and FallowfieldBlade have made reference to Chris' attempt to turn Oli McBurnie into a Premier League Jon Parkin when this absolutely wasn't his game at all. See his jinking run goal he scored against the Pigs for reference.
5. Sander.

It might be that we can get the best out of him slightly further forward this season and take advantage of his presence when he goes on a run. But Chris seemed to think Sander would replace Lundstram as a more imposing box to box Steven Gerrard. Anyone who saw his highlights reel from Genk would see that wasn't his game. He was more Didi Hamman than Steven Gerrard. Or if you like, more Paul Coutts than a right footed John Fleck.

So maybe he can be more all action at this level but eventually you have to play them to their strengths or expect less than optimal performances.
Click to expand...
Some fair points. Coutts was also coming back from an injury and looked quite apprehensive in his early days and struggled to find a regular position. Wilder was close to shipping him out . But once he found a regular place in the team in a system and position that suited him he grew into it and was outstanding.
 
derekacorah said:
I love the superiority of the Berge apologists who think that because people 'can't see his quality' that they'd rather have 11 Monty's running around the pitch.

He's been pretty rubbish in the main and hasn't really looked that interested in digging in and improving our performances. Now I understand that by saying "digging in" it must mean that I know fuck all about football and just want people who run around a lot and tackle. A CL appearance against Liverpool and some youtube highlights from Belgian football aren't going to win me over.

If he plays to his potential then he'll be a good player, he just needs to do it consistently. I'm fully aware of all the Berge excuses and listed a number of them recently, they are excuses though and he needs to show improvement to win over a lot of fans.

Worst case he's an expensive mistake, there are a lot of other scenarios in between, the best being that he cements himself as a first team player for us by playing well and then does the same in the PL.
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Very fair and balanced assesment of a talented lad who hasn't fulfilled his potential- yet.

Expect to be called a hater though, who doesn't understand the game
 
Well even the people who watch him play International football struggle with him….and they must be better educated than us….

Berge should have been substituted”

“We can talk about hype on many Norwegian players – but no one beats Berge. What do people see that we do not see?”

“What IS Sander Berge really good at?”

“Sander Berge is overrated!”

Now there are others who think he is good like on here …..

I’m in the hype gang personally waiting to be proved wrong and like Kev Keegan said… I would love it …. !
 
CaptainMorgans said:
There are a lot of mitigating circumstances with Berge as to why things haven't gone great for him since he moved.

There was the lockdown in a foreign country that he was new to, followed by the club he joined turning into one of the Premier Leagues worst ever teams. Then a tough injury that kept him out for almost a year. He's struggled to play consistent football ever since, so it's harsh to judge him for only performing in patches.

I rate Berge as a player and I like watching him play when he's on it. He just needs to believe in himself a bit more and get aggressive.
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Needs to do this and needs to do that ... but when will he ?
 

Is this the right thread for revisionism?

You know, a bit like with Coutts. Now someone is playing well, we pretend that they were always playing well and it was just a select few who could identify it!

Two managers haven't managed to optimise him and now it looks like Hecky had given him a mandate he can but into and he's even impressing Deadbat so we must be doing something right!
 
Champagneblade said:
Is this the right thread for revisionism?

You know, a bit like with Coutts. Now someone is playing well, we pretend that they were always playing well and it was just a select few who could identify it!

Two managers haven't managed to optimise him and now it looks like Hecky had given him a mandate he can but into and he's even impressing Deadbat so we must be doing something right!
Click to expand...
Numerous players were poor under Slav and Wilder in 20-21; it wasn't just Berge. As ever, there's no problem with "he had a bad game" or "he's playing poorly and should be dropped". It's the "he's shit", "he's never going to be good enough", "we'll never recoup what we spent him" and so on.

I know I'm a stuck record on this point, but why do players still get written off when there have been countless examples of players struggling but coming (very) good when they find their feet?
 
Interesting that in Berges recent interview he pointed out that he was now playing better and with more confidence helped by the fact he was playing in a position that suited him.
 
bertieblade said:
Interesting that in Berges recent interview he pointed out that he was now playing better and with more confidence helped by the fact he was playing in a position that suited him.
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I'd be interested to know how his current position compares with how both Slav and Wilder decided to play him.
 
Houso said:
Numerous players were poor under Slav and Wilder in 20-21; it wasn't just Berge. As ever, there's no problem with "he had a bad game" or "he's playing poorly and should be dropped". It's the "he's shit", "he's never going to be good enough", "we'll never recoup what we spent him" and so on.

I know I'm a stuck record on this point, but why do players still get written off when there have been countless examples of players struggling but coming (very) good when they find their feet?
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Presumably because they are the exception and not the rule.

And Coutts had a sustained 12 month spell of really good form. Berge has played 2 very good games back to back. Very encouraging, but let’s not get carried away just yet.
 
Revolution said:
Presumably because they are the exception and not the rule.

And Coutts had a sustained 12 month spell of really good form. Berge has played 2 very good games back to back. Very encouraging, but let’s not get carried away just yet.
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For me that's the beauty of football ,let's get carried away
 
Houso said:
Numerous players were poor under Slav and Wilder in 20-21; it wasn't just Berge. As ever, there's no problem with "he had a bad game" or "he's playing poorly and should be dropped". It's the "he's shit", "he's never going to be good enough", "we'll never recoup what we spent him" and so on.

I know I'm a stuck record on this point, but why do players still get written off when there have been countless examples of players struggling but coming (very) good when they find their feet?
Click to expand...

This, a thousand times this.
 
Champagneblade said:
I'd be interested to know how his current position compares with how both Slav and Wilder decided to play him.
Click to expand...
Wilder was quoted as saying he saw him as a replacement for Norwood
That would never work as Berge us at his best carrying the ball to get beyond players,
Their only similarity is that they can both pass the ball
Wilder saw Berge as a player to sit in front of the back four
 
Champagneblade said:
Is this the right thread for revisionism?

You know, a bit like with Coutts. Now someone is playing well, we pretend that they were always playing well and it was just a select few who could identify it!

Two managers haven't managed to optimise him and now it looks like Hecky had given him a mandate he can but into and he's even impressing Deadbat so we must be doing something right!
Click to expand...
I made this comparison before. He was a bit like Coutts, not that they were playing well and people just couldn't see it, they weren't playing that well but you could just see there was a decent player there who had not quite found a role in the team.
 

Champagneblade said:
Is this the right thread for revisionism?

You know, a bit like with Coutts. Now someone is playing well, we pretend that they were always playing well and it was just a select few who could identify it!

Two managers haven't managed to optimise him and now it looks like Hecky had given him a mandate he can but into and he's even impressing Deadbat so we must be doing something right!
Click to expand...
And funnily enough your post is liked by all the usual Berge haters......my message , Get over it !! Must really hurt you all
 
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