CW to West Brom

[TJ blade]

wilder will be a success again in His next job - imo. Just like he has been basically wherever he has been. I don’t think he’s a busted flush, I honestly think he’d be worth a shot at one of the open PL jobs - though I could be proven wrong.

Doubt that mate..

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Doubt that mate..

I mean why?

you’ve got a perfect storm of bad injuries, no fans and crap signings. And it all got too much. We all know this season was complete garbage but his career has been far more positives than negatives everywhere he’s been.

David moyes has failed in more than a couple of jobs but it’s not stopped him doing a decent job for West Ham this time round has it?

 

[CaptainMorgans]

This is what I’ve tried to tell people for years, when Wilder first came in he said regarding the clubs finances that he would never put the club in jeopardy, this is why he’s never gone mad spending big on wages and I admire him for his stance on this.

I do think the money was there if needed but if Wilder didn’t think it represented value for money then he was having none of it, trying to get this through to folk has been very hard though.

He’s made loads of mistakes and it could’ve ultimately halted his time here but I’m not going to fault him for this one, he always had the clubs best interests at heart no matter how poor his judgement and decisions were in the last season.

His intentions were honourable. And the proof will be in the pudding if the young players bounce us back & we have a solid foundation.
If they don't, maybe he will look at it as a time he should have rolled the dice. We'd just finished 9th, his & our stock was high & the potential to attract some experienced pros to solidify our place at the top table was there.

 

[jono_t2000]

Doubt that

I mean why?

you’ve got a perfect storm of bad injuries, no fans and crap signings. And it all got too much. We all know this season was complete garbage but his career has been far more positives than negatives everywhere he’s been.

David moyes has failed in more than a couple of jobs but it’s not stopped him doing a decent job for West Ham this time round has it?

His reputation with other club owners is tarnished already, as can be seen with WBA - that's exactly why a PL team wont risk touching him with a barge pole let alone a relegated team looking to bounce back up

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

I mean why?

you’ve got a perfect storm of bad injuries, no fans and crap signings. And it all got too much. We all know this season was complete garbage but his career has been far more positives than negatives everywhere he’s been.

David moyes has failed in more than a couple of jobs but it’s not stopped him doing a decent job for West Ham this time round has it?

I think when one of the things you pride yourself is consistency,, when your not consistent it raises a red flag, he moved Duffy on, quicker than a £7 note, he called out Henderson for dropping the ball against Liverpool got stick for it from some quarters and more support from others, consistency players know where they are etc etc Lundstrom,,,, no consistency, no calling him out, in fact the opposite, improved contracts still on the table, month after month, insipid lacklustre performance after insipid etc etc

 

[ancientblade]

good appointment by baggies but still think weve got the better manager in slav

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

Part of me thinks this is funny as wilders elaborate plan to try and make it look like we got relegated because of the board and anyone but him has backfired so that he could walk straight back into a Prem job ( which he deserves) so its quite funny that west brom would turn him down and bat shit mental at the same time

Do find it daft that none of the Prem vacancies are looking at Wilder

IMO he is a better manager than Nuno/Howe/Lampard taking us to 9th is a much better achievement than any other manager has done in the last few years

If an english manager cant get a top end job after what Wilder achieved with us British managers may aswell call it a day

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

Wilder showed himself to be a Mardy arse control freak , he might have to restart his career at a bottom end championship or higher end league one club ... did himself no favours after Christmas!

He didn't but that doesn't take away from the fact he's still the best manager we have ever had and he took a team from bottom half of league one to 9th in the prem playing attacking football

If you do that in Germany you get the Bayern job in Spain the Barca no questions

It would have been better for all if Wilder stuck it out and came again this season as he's still the best man for this job

I think Chris will be starting to think he has made a massive massive mistake quitting his supposedly dream job to get rejected by WBA

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

I mean why?

you’ve got a perfect storm of bad injuries, no fans and crap signings. And it all got too much. We all know this season was complete garbage but his career has been far more positives than negatives everywhere he’s been.

David moyes has failed in more than a couple of jobs but it’s not stopped him doing a decent job for West Ham this time round has it?

David moyes got the Everton Job after taking PNE to the Play offs and got the west ham job after taking Sunderland down

David moyes doesnt get that chance at Everton nowadays

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

Part of me thinks this is funny as wilders elaborate plan to try and make it look like we got relegated because of the board and anyone but him has backfired so that he could walk straight back into a Prem job ( which he deserves) so its quite funny that west brom would turn him down and bat shit mental at the same time

Do find it daft that none of the Prem vacancies are looking at Wilder

IMO he is a better manager than Nuno/Howe/Lampard taking us to 9th is a much better achievement than any other manager has done in the last few years

If an english manager cant get a top end job after what Wilder achieved with us British managers may aswell call it a day

Take a look at Simon Jordans reaction,, ' All he did was complain' love him or hate him, people will have listened to that, and directors are no different to anyone else, they want an easy life, if they hire someone to do a job,,they don't want to be dragged into arguments, criticised, however politely, have their decisions questioned or made public.
Wherever CW 'applies' for a job, they will all ask the same question, so what went wrong at BL, his boyhood club, his dream Jon, he had more control, a bigger budget than his previous jobs, take relegation out of the picture, when he was publicly backed, promised his job was safe, what went wrong,, and why would he come here, and would he stay or,,,??

 

[Davalon]

I'm no expert on the process of hiring professional football managers but it seemed clear to me that Wilder's behaviour in his last months here, would likely raise red flags with many owners who might otherwise consider him.

If he had a proven track record in the top flight then people may be more willing to overlook it.

Despite one fantastic PL season, he also oversaw a terrible one whilst clearly being backed very well in relative terms initially, and even guaranteed his job when it was clear relegation was happening.

His career has been a constant upward trajectory but his only top two tier success has come at his own club where he had control he's unlikely to get elsewhere at that level.

Despite his obvious managerial capabilities he's still a gamble for clubs like most are. He just added extra question marks with his carry on here towards the end.

 

[Balham]

He didn't but that doesn't take away from the fact he's still the best manager we have ever had and he took a team from midtable league one to 9th in the prem playing attacking football

Fixed it for you. Wilder did exceptionally well but let's not pretend that we were in any way attacking in the Premier League. We finished 9th despite being 15th for completed passes, 18th for completion %, 16th for progressive distance (successful forward passes), 6th for attempted long balls (with the 17th best completion rate ie we lumped the ball forward), 18th for key passes, 16th for goals scored and 15th for xG. We finished 9th because the defensive stars aligned.

 

[Mouth of the South]

I'm no expert on the process of hiring professional football managers but it seemed clear to me that Wilder's behaviour in his last months here, would likely raise red flags with many owners who might otherwise consider him.

If he had a proven track record in the top flight then people may be more willing to overlook it.

Despite one fantastic PL season, he also oversaw a terrible one whilst clearly being backed very well in relative terms initially, and even guaranteed his job when it was clear relegation was happening.

His career has been a constant upward trajectory but his only top two tier success has come at his own club where he had control he's unlikely to get elsewhere at that level.

Despite his obvious managerial capabilities he's still a gamble for clubs like most are. He just added extra question marks with his carry on here towards the end.

Coupled with his demands for a (very high) salary, budget and control over recruitment. If he'd overseen a second successful season in the Prem, most/all of the negative points would, I'm sure, have been overlooked by a Prem owner keen for him to deliver success but last season has reduced his stock significantly to the point where he's unlikely to get the sort of roles he wants or feels he deserves.

 

[Yogi]

agree - i feel there must have been some flexibility in the way we operated.

the 20 mill fee on Brewster would be 80k a week for someone for a 4 year contract. We could have got balogun (for less than half a Brewster) and paid someone else higher wages with the difference

Whilst I rate balogun highly it was reported arsenal were asking 15 million for him at the time and weren’t shifting at all. That’s why we ended our interest it was viewed as too big a gamble on a player who hadn’t played any senior football so we’d have only saved 5 million.

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

Fixed it for you. Wilder did exceptionally well but let's not pretend that we were in any way attacking in the Premier League. We finished 9th despite being 15th for completed passes, 18th for completion %, 16th for progressive distance (successful forward passes), 6th for attempted long balls (with the 17th best completion rate ie we lumped the ball forward), 18th for key passes, 16th for goals scored and 15th for xG. We finished 9th because the defensive stars aligned.

WOW thats some selective re-writing of history

12 months ago Chris wilder was the greatest manager in the history of football

You can think he's a great manager and still think hes a bit of a tit for the way he acted the last 6 months of his time at us

Name me a better managerial achievement in the last 10 years than what he has done with us taking us from L1 TO 9th in the prem (Bar Leicester)

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

Take a look at Simon Jordans reaction,, ' All he did was complain' love him or hate him, people will have listened to that, and directors are no different to anyone else, they want an easy life, if they hire someone to do a job,,they don't want to be dragged into arguments, criticised, however politely, have their decisions questioned or made public.
Wherever CW 'applies' for a job, they will all ask the same question, so what went wrong at BL, his boyhood club, his dream Jon, he had more control, a bigger budget than his previous jobs, take relegation out of the picture, when he was publicly backed, promised his job was safe, what went wrong,, and why would he come here, and would he stay or,,,??

Simon Jordan also says that the best managers are the ones that demand the world and want the max out of the players/board/club which is why conte hasnt gone to spurs

But yeah I agree he's shot his-self in the foot 100%

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

Simon Jordan also says that the best managers are the ones that demand the world and want the max out of the players/board/club which is why conte has gone to spurs

But yeah I agree he's shot his-self in the foot 100%

Took me years to learn how to push my bosses and get what I wanted, as with all things there is a right way and lots of wrong ways, it's fine to be stubborn, have a focus, etc but sometimes you have to compromise to get a little of what you want rather than 100% of what you don't.

 

[BrianBadonde]

Agreed. As much as I liked him, you could (potentially) see from Wits Twitter messages how Wilder attributed all of the club's success to himself. Comments about the Prince only putting in the money that Wilder had generated etc.

I'd be intrigued to know who was in control of the wage structure. We were all quick to blame the board on that front, but I wonder if that's just how Wilder chose to spend his money - when, for instance, maybe we could have signed Callum Wilson, Emi Martinez etc. in lieu of the targeting youth policy.

Maybe if he wasn't the top earner at the club with massive bonuses etc. we might have been able to afford to pay a little bit more to these targets he so infamously wanted that would've obviously kept us up.

 

[Mojo]

I wonder are we demanding compo for wilder and that's why they pulled it? I'm sure I read that we paid wilder a few mill for 6 months, surely we are still in that period and therefore would want our severance payment back.

 

[Champagneblade]

I aired my reservations way back on page 2 of this thread but I think Wilder has to be very careful now.

The impact of the way he left has already started to take hold.

Chairman of WBA saying he didn't like the way he left isn't going to look good in the circles of other Chairman either.

Trying to quit a few times rather than going down with the ship he 99% built didn't in any way salvage his own reputation from a disasterous season.

Moaning in public about a lack of progress on the training ground and player recruitment was pretty wilfully blind when you consider there was a global pandemic with no end in sight, making prudence, well a very prudent approach to take for the longevity of the club. Plus having sat on an inert 23m signing whilst suggesting we weren't somehow competing as the likes of Burnley, who finished below us, spent less than 2m on summer recruits also did nothing to enhance his reputation.

He will need to get back in the management game soon in my opinion, else he is going to be known at the guy with the worst PL start of 2 points from 17 matches and his work prior to this a footnote rather than the other way around.

My way or the high way, he's going to realise, isn't going to get you top jobs and the pity is, if he'd lowered his pride and understood the confines the club was working under, then he'd be riding it out and still be there, much like Daniel Farke has been with Norwich.

Once the manager thinks you're lucky to have him, then just like Becks with Fergie, parting is inevitable. He's probably realising now that having managed at such luminaries as Halifax, Oxford and Northampton, Sheffield United was a pretty good gig for him and despite asking him to change/evolve his habits, he had a fair bit of freedom compared to what he will get elsewhere.

Difficult not to conclude that Chris got ahead of himself a bit and has shot himself in the foot.

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

It's a simple question of economics hire Wilder or Appleton now and it costs immediately, hire Wagner and it costs months down the line if/when he is sacked.

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

I aired my reservations way back on page 2 of this thread but I think Wilder has to be very careful now.

The impact of the way he left has already started to take hold.

Chairman of WBA saying he didn't like the way he left isn't going to look good in the circles of other Chairman either.

Trying to quit a few times rather than going down with the ship he 99% built didn't in any way salvage his own reputation from a disasterous season.

Moaning in public about a lack of progress on the training ground and player recruitment was pretty wilfully blind when you consider there was a global pandemic with no end in sight, making prudence, well a very prudent approach to take for the longevity of the club. Plus having sat on an inert 23m signing whilst suggesting we weren't somehow competing as the likes of Burnley, who finished below us, spent less than 2m on summer recruits also did nothing to enhance his reputation.

He will need to get back in the management game soon in my opinion, else he is going to be known at the guy with the worst PL start of 2 points from 17 matches and his work prior to this a footnote rather than the other way around.

My way or the high way, he's going to realise, isn't going to get you top jobs and the pity is, if he'd lowered his pride and understood the confines the club was working under, then he'd be riding it out and still be there, much like Daniel Farke has been with Norwich.

Once the manager thinks you're lucky to have him, then just like Becks with Fergie, parting is inevitable. He's probably realising now that having managed at such luminaries as Halifax, Oxford and Northampton, Sheffield United was a pretty good gig for him and despite asking him to change/evolve his habits, he had a fair bit of freedom compared to what he will get elsewhere.

Nailed it!

 

[Booker4]

He didn't but that doesn't take away from the fact he's still the best manager we have ever had and he took a team from bottom half of league one to 9th in the prem playing attacking football

If you do that in Germany you get the Bayern job in Spain the Barca no questions

It would have been better for all if Wilder stuck it out and came again this season as he's still the best man for this job

I think Chris will be starting to think he has made a massive massive mistake quitting his supposedly dream job to get rejected by WBA

Few things there Fellowfield, please don’t think I’m disagreeing with everything you’re saying though!

I’m a big Wilder fan, like most are, I particularly defend him on recruitment. But best ever manager? Dave Bassett still holds that for me, I said that when people were saying Wilder’s our best ever manager after 2 seasons, that you have to wait to the end of his tenure to judge as a whole. Bassett took us from Division 3 to Division 1 under a very tight budget and constant boardroom/ownership issues also, albeit he did relegate us to Div 3 early on but we were a basket case of a club and he joined halfway through the season near the bottom when he started and couldn’t bring in his assistant Taylor.

Bassett never went public with the problems he was experiencing under the board and what he experienced under the constant boardroom wrangling and ownership issues I'm sure matched problems Wilder had; Woolhouse walking off with £700,000 of the club’s money etc. He kept us in the topflight for 4 seasons and really it should have been at least five had it not been for a disastrous last day of the season at Chelsea - Hans Segers/Wimbledon etc. He always worked under a low budget and had his best player sold, Deane, without his permission. So all of that for me exceeds what Wilder did or at the very least matches it.

There’s also John Harris for older fans in the Currie era. We were not in the lower half of League One either when Wilder took over, we finished 11th under Adkins and were around the edge of the play-offs all season. He also inherited the best centre forward in the league - Sharp, a quality ball playing centre mid - Coutts (albeit one that hadn't shone previously and Wilder takes credit there also) and a quality centre back/centre midfielder in Basham. That’s not taking away from what Wilder did for United, he definitely should be considered for PL jobs, if he's not then that's their loss. As you say he's a more impressive candidate than Nuno, Howe and Lampard, but he didn't help himself with regular criticism of the board in the last few months.

I'm not so sure Wilder regrets leaving though, he's a very proud man it seems and I suspect he's desperate to get back into football and prove his worth again, rather than regret leaving. He may well have to wait till next season now though.

On Wilder the best man for the job? He was for most of his tenure, but it became untenable and with the relationship with the board strained I don't see under those circumstances that he was the best man for the job. Wilder needs to learn to work with boards better in my view and keep his criticisms to himself as I say, but saying that we don't know his side of the story and it appeared that the board were no longer willing to continue with him having sole control of transfers so that was it then after that. Jokanovic seems a better fit, but time will tell.

 

[wizadry]

What doesn’t add up to me is WBA saying they didn’t like how he left his tenure at the lane, but then him being literally signed on the dotted line only to be denied because of said reason, they surely wouldn’t let discussions get so far on if they weren’t happy with how he left his tenure at the lane?

 

[BrianBadonde]

I aired my reservations way back on page 2 of this thread but I think Wilder has to be very careful now.

The impact of the way he left has already started to take hold.

Chairman of WBA saying he didn't like the way he left isn't going to look good in the circles of other Chairman either.

Trying to quit a few times rather than going down with the ship he 99% built didn't in any way salvage his own reputation from a disasterous season.

Moaning in public about a lack of progress on the training ground and player recruitment was pretty wilfully blind when you consider there was a global pandemic with no end in sight, making prudence, well a very prudent approach to take for the longevity of the club. Plus having sat on an inert 23m signing whilst suggesting we weren't somehow competing as the likes of Burnley, who finished below us, spent less than 2m on summer recruits also did nothing to enhance his reputation.

He will need to get back in the management game soon in my opinion, else he is going to be known at the guy with the worst PL start of 2 points from 17 matches and his work prior to this a footnote rather than the other way around.

My way or the high way, he's going to realise, isn't going to get you top jobs and the pity is, if he'd lowered his pride and understood the confines the club was working under, then he'd be riding it out and still be there, much like Daniel Farke has been with Norwich.

Once the manager thinks you're lucky to have him, then just like Becks with Fergie, parting is inevitable. He's probably realising now that having managed at such luminaries as Halifax, Oxford and Northampton, Sheffield United was a pretty good gig for him and despite asking him to change/evolve his habits, he had a fair bit of freedom compared to what he will get elsewhere.

Difficult not to conclude that Chris got ahead of himself a bit and has shot himself in the foot.

spot on.

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

What doesn’t add up to me is WBA saying they didn’t like how he left his tenure at the lane, but then him being literally signed on the dotted line only to be denied because of said reason, they surely wouldn’t let discussions get so far on if they weren’t happy with how he left his tenure at the lane?

I think there is a massive difference between what actually happened and how it was reported, there has never been so many reporters, journalist and Internet outlets as now, all trying to generate income or new stories,, Wilder is favourite for WBA role,,,,you can only use that headline once, but you can report exactly the same 'story' with Wilder about to sign on the dotted line,,

 

[Booker4]

What doesn’t add up to me is WBA saying they didn’t like how he left his tenure at the lane, but then him being literally signed on the dotted line only to be denied because of said reason, they surely wouldn’t let discussions get so far on if they weren’t happy with how he left his tenure at the lane?

Seems that West Brom have a bit of a boardroom problem. There's the board of directors who are British and know how to run a football club, although that may be disputed by Albion fans at times. But the money man has all the control ultimately and maybe it was only near the end of the process that the Chinese owner got wind of the end with us, possibly spoke to the Prince etc, you'd be surprised what owners do not know about football, look at Chansiri at Wednesday and the Venkys at Blackburn!

 

[ancientblade]

john harris without question the best manager we have ever had

 

[wizadry]

I think there is a massive difference between what actually happened and how it was reported, there has never been so many reporters, journalist and Internet outlets as now, all trying to generate income or new stories,, Wilder is favourite for WBA role,,,,you can only use that headline once, but you can report exactly the same 'story' with Wilder about to sign on the dotted line,,

Seems that West Brom have a bit of a boardroom problem. There's the board of directors who are British and know how to run a football club, although that may be disputed by Albion fans at times. But the money man has all the control ultimately and maybe it was only near the end of the process that the Chinese owner got wind of the end with us, you'd be surprised what owners do not know about football, look at Chansiri at Wednesday and the Venkys at Blackburn!

I appreciate that chaps and as always it’s likely to be somewhere in the middle.

 

[Booker4]

john harris without question the best manager we have ever had

He never gets mentioned now because most have not witnessed it, me included, but certainly right up there from what I've watched and read, and if there's a statue of Wilder planned for the car park at some point (won't be just yet!) then we need one for Harris and Bassett also!