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I can't disagree Balham re the foreign market, I think Wilder will have to embrace that, and clearly that was an issue. But re the above, I reckon with Ramsdale, Bogle, Brewster and Berge, you can discount Berge if you want but Wilder still agreed to it/wanted him, they'll all go for big fees on my view and only on a few seasons will we know whether the players signed by Wilder did actually get us back what was paid, or more. You mention Coufal and Soucek, we were linked with Soucek but went for Berge instead I seem to recall, and as you say Berge was clearly scouted by VW. Again you're quoting transfer fees at £25m, but what's the wages?Wilder had removed his right to choose players given that his recruitment after we got to the Premier League was:
C Robinson - out on loan after 6 months
Freeman - out on loan after a year
Mousset - huge question marks over fitness, application and attitude
McBurnie - jury definitely out
Rodwell - two appearances in 18 months including getting a contract extension last summer
J Robinson - will be decent backup in the Championship
Foderingham - League One Wes. On a three year deal. This was the one which set the alarm bells ringing for me
Ramsdale - coming good and in retrospect £13.5m isn't too bad
Lowe - unproven. Smells a bit like a deal with Derby to avoid a sell-on fee for Bogle*
Bogle - exciting prospect
Brewster - jury definitely out
Burke - just an awful footballer
I'm excluding Verrips and Berge as those were clearly not Wilder's choice. Same goes for the players signed for the 23s.
Why would any chairman in the top two divisions take a chance on him given his record in the transfer market and in developing players over the last two years? Add to that the absolute abomination of a season that we've just had and it's clearly a more difficult decision than the one you're portraying.
On the point about wages - I would be amazed if we couldn't have signed better players than the 12 above had Wilder allowed recruitment from overseas. West Ham signed Soucek and Coufal for a combined £25m. They're not going to be on mad money and in any case we'd have been able to comfortably exceed their Slavia salaries.
*bit like Spurs signing Davies and Vorm from Swansea for a combined £10m which conveniently worked out at £10m for Davies (no sell-on) and £0 for Vorm (25% sell-on)
Albion want a cheap option as their chairman is desperate to sell. They're attracted to Wilder as he got promoted from the Championship last time out on an relative shoestring but part of that was us being able to ride the crest of the 3-4-1-2 wave all the way from League One.I can't disagree Balham re the foreign market, I think Wilder will have to embrace that, and clearly that was an issue. But re the above, I reckon with Ramsdale, Bogle, Brewster and Berge, you can discount Berge if you want but Wilder still agreed to it/wanted him, they'll all go for big fees on my view and only on a few seasons will we know whether the players signed by Wilder did actually get us back what was paid, or more. You mention Coufal and Soucek, we were linked with Soucek but went for Berge instead I seem to recall, and as you say Berge was clearly scouted by VW. Again you're quoting transfer fees at £25m, but what's the wages?
You mention what club in the top two leagues would want him after last season or words to that effect, what about everything before that?! Already it seems Albion want him and they're only just relegated from the Prem. I would be amazed if Wilder doesn't not get them up and they'll have a decent chance of staying up too. Don't get me wrong, I love the appointment of Jokanovic, so looking forward to next season, but I'm so grateful to Wilder and where we are now, even with criticisms, to me overall Wilder's time at United was a massive success, and the players he assembled we've got many sellable assets which is huge so you can re-build if we don't get promoted, unlike teams that come down with expensive older players who aren't worth much and on big money, we don't have that issue.
I've said my points re Soucek and we went for Berge instead, as recommended by VW I highly suspect.Albion want a cheap option as their chairman is desperate to sell. They're attracted to Wilder as he got promoted from the Championship last time out on an relative shoestring but part of that was us being able to ride the crest of the 3-4-1-2 wave all the way from League One.
I don't have a definitive number for Souček and Coufal's salaries but Football Manager suggests £50k and £30k per week respectively. That's going to be inflated against what we'd have paid by virtue of the fact that West Ham will pay more than us but equally it's not going to be miles away from what we're paying Berge and Bogle. For what it's worth FM19 had both players on £3k per week at Slavia.
Looking forward to reading this thread back in a few years. Unless wilder is managing in the conference a few are going to look pretty silly.
I know you've not referenced me here, but I'm all for moving on, I won't be joining any protest on the first game of the season as some proposed, I support United not Chris Wilder, and I can agree with some of the criticisms labelled at Wilder. Personally I didn't like the attitude of "the players should motivate themselves" after a loss for example. I also suspect that by the end the dressing room was broken, despite noises to the contrary, but I find it very hard to listen to criticisms of Wilder on recruitment without the perspective of who we are and the wage structure we had. We also had injuries and the lack of form to players, but that's all forgotten now it seems.Unless he's managing us in the champions league, I doubt anyone will care.
Of course there will still be a few stroking their wilder tattoos and shedding a tear while humming he's one of our own.
Nail on the head.I'd be surprised if CW lands any of those roles CB - last season's catastrophic performance (which, as much as he may try, he can't transfer blame for onto the Board) his insistence of having full control over all transfers (including the recent, costly acquisitions that didn't work), and, to a lesser degree, the manner of his protracted exit, will not have gone unnoticed.
If I was the one recruiting at those clubs, would I appoint CW - nope, I think there are better, more experienced, lower risk and lower maintenance options available.
If there is a chain of moves, I could perhaps see him landing the Burnley job at a push but no others in the Prem.
Sounds strange but I do get a bit of Mourinho vibe from Wilder. He's great when he's good, likeable, positive, witty & motivated. Once it starts going wrong it's not his fault and in most cases (Oxford/ N'hampton/Us) its the owners fault.Nail on the head.
Previous season he'd have been in the running for most Premier League jobs. Last season really damaged his reputation, particularly at the top level.
Even WBA fans are dubious, as theres a genuine question mark over which Wilder they employ! The swashbuckling, likeable chap from our first season or the dour, stubborn fella from last year.
The transfer record is also a huge fly in the CW ointment, both in the need for control and the appalling record.
Don't really see his next job in the Premier League, think he needs to reset and rebuild his reputation a touch first and show he can still walk the walk when things get tough.
That (in bold) is my point though Booker. Wilder couldn't sign the very best players from the Championship as our budget and standing didn't allow it so why the hell didn't we look abroad rather than signing substandard players whose performances haven't been good enough? I missed Ben Osborn off the signings list by the way. He's another one who's midtable Championship quality.I've said my points re Soucek and we went for Berge instead, as recommended by VW I highly suspect.
One final point Balham. All of the players you've quoted that Wilder brought in. Most are from the Champ or from the squads of other PL clubs. Wilder spent around £120m and in my opinion wasn't even able to sign the best players from the Champ. The likes of Benrahma, Maupay, Watkins, Cash, Eze, Robinson. they all went to London/more money or bigger clubs Villa or more established prem clubs Brighton. So we've not even been able to sign the cream of the crop, McBurnie aside, who at 22 and having scored 24 goals can be considered to be the cream, but it's likely he was the second choice over Maupay. Freeman and Robinson were not the cream of the Champ, QPR's best player was Eze and Robinson was never prolific at PNE but granted he played as a winger also. So we've attracted decent Champ players and squad players like Mousset who Bournemouth hardly played and yet we were all raving about him for months last season, he got 6 assists and 6 goals - not bad for a first season, it's not Wilder's fault that he had application issues/fitness, we got a tune out of him for a season and that played a massive part in why we did so well in that first season.
Also, Wilder didn't inherit a great United team, he did inherit Sharp and Basham granted, the latter of which had largely played in midfield previously, Coutts and Freeman were not part of the promotion team to the Prem. So it was Wilder who created all of that from League One and then from the Champ adding Norwood, McGoldrick, Stevens, Egan, Hendo and Baldock totalled up to around £4-6m, compare that to what Leeds, Derby, Boro, Stoke and Villa spent on players, so it's crap to say he rode the League One momentum to get us up. Where we are now is all due to Wilder and the base we have is all his and Knills work, they get a 9/10 in my book.
They'll care enough to keep slating him at any opportunity they get. Be interesting to see the reaction if it turns out he's not an absolutely wank, money grabbing, fraud of a blade.Unless he's managing us in the champions league, I doubt anyone will care.
Of course there will still be a few stroking their wilder tattoos and shedding a tear while humming he's one of our own.
I take your point, I do, but there's a few things here of note to your argument. We've not heard Wilder's defence yet of his recruitment in terms of why he didn't sign foreign players. From my memory the vast majority of our fans were fully behind Wilder when he left and were outraged t him leaving. Then the Prince does an interview with Sky to put his side of the story knowing fully well Wilder can't respond unless he wants to blow his pay off. So I'll wait to hear what Wilder has to say on this.That (in bold) is my point though Booker. Wilder couldn't sign the very best players from the Championship as our budget and standing didn't allow it so why the hell didn't we look abroad rather than signing substandard players whose performances haven't been good enough? I missed Ben Osborn off the signings list by the way. He's another one who's midtable Championship quality.
Wilder deserves enormous credit for the first 3.5 years of his time with us. The turnaround job he did from the ashes of Adkins' tenure was nothing short of miraculous. However, he thoroughly lost the plot for the last 18 months and that can't be overlooked.
He wouldn't do a good on either.They would but he wouldn't do a terrible job there.
Exactly.Wilder could have responded to the points made in our owners interview. Once things in the public domain they no longer covered by NDA, Wilder has to date chosen not to comment.
Wow.Exactly.
Everything the Prince said is the truth or the gist of it is anyway, with a few bits maybe lost in translation.
Wilder is a money grabbing snake who couldn't wait to get out once the going got tough. It's that simple, sorry that some don't like it.
Sunderland one summer, West Brom the next. Then suddenly, along comes a new bumper contract that made him the highest earner at the club.
Right, sound.
If it wasn't would you like to tell us, the dumb public, why Chris hasn't come out and responded?Wow.
Everything the Prince said is the truth too. No wonder Boris is prime minister.
It's the legacy of someone motivated by money, though.Wilder bailing on us and then joining a main rival in the same division is not the legacy I thought he would leave
If that happened surely there’d be a screenshot kicking about.And for anyone that saw that accidental slip on the Albion's Website announcing Wilder last night - it was indeed real. An admin error posted it and Dowling is furious.
Gets me why anybody should be bothered about Wilder, he got out through the bog window and he'll probably get back in again through West Broms bog window.Wilder this, Wilder that.
Some will be stalking him no doubt. When they see him discussing a role with another club they'll be wearing dark glasses hiding in the bushes before heading off home to cry themselves to sleep like they've just seen their ex necking with her new bloke in Kikis.
And the local press in West Brom and Sheffield would have picked it up, plus no end of others running the huge mistake story hours after, if they were not quick enough to announce the 'breaking news' ?If that happened surely there’d be a screenshot kicking about.
Wilder bailing on us and then joining a main rival in the same division is not the legacy I thought he would leave
Sorry but.... why don't you read my post properly.Sorry but...who do you expect him to join? Is he meant to purposefully join a club with low ambitions and no hope of promotion, just because he's a blade? The 'loyalty' of jeopardising your own career that some fans seem to demand of Wilder is baffling.
However, he thoroughly lost the plot for the last 18 months and that can't be overlooked.
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