Old Photos For No Reason Whatsoever

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HodgysBrokenThumb said:
As XM657 has said, it was the lineup for several games (much to my surprise). It seems to have resulted from signing Pace. If you follow the programmes below, you will see (I hope) my arrows indicating the positional change from centre-forward for Hawksworth. By the time of the Doncaster game, Hawksworth and Hodgson had swapped places. Total football?
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3-5-2 ? !!
 

Trigger Blade said:
I think it was Michael Parkinson who once had the theory that Alf Ramsey’s deep mistrust of wingers went back to one day when he played against a bandy winger at Barnsley who turned him inside out for a full 90 minutes. He swore that day to do whatever it took to eradicate them, which he did with his Wingless Wonders. Parky makes the huge leap to claim that England’s 1966 World Cup win was all down to Alf being skinned at Oakwell.

Change the team and player to Derek Hawksworth and The Blades and I’d buy into that.
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Big Hitter said:
Deep in the recessess of my admittedly rusty brain I do have a recollection of a very good left winger playing at Barnsley in the 50's. Was it Steel, John.? Maybe Silent knows.
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Found this. Not heard that before. Parkinson being interviewed by a paper

There was Johnny Kelly, our left-winger, who had pace, skill and a left foot capable of crossing the ball with the lace facing wherever the centre-forward desired it.

He so diddled a Southampton full-back called Alf Ramsey that he changed the face of English football. When he became the England manager, Sir Alf produced his ‘wingless wonders’, based not so much on tactical inspiration as hatred of players like Johnny Kelly who had made his life a misery.
 
Silent Blade said:
Found this. Not heard that before. Parkinson being interviewed by a paper

There was Johnny Kelly, our left-winger, who had pace, skill and a left foot capable of crossing the ball with the lace facing wherever the centre-forward desired it.

He so diddled a Southampton full-back called Alf Ramsey that he changed the face of English football. When he became the England manager, Sir Alf produced his ‘wingless wonders’, based not so much on tactical inspiration as hatred of players like Johnny Kelly who had made his life a misery.
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Brilliant, that's the guy. Steele was a player then Manager.

Changing the subject I once played for a cricket team in Chesterfield in the 60's and one of the guys said my cousin is coming up this weekend can we get him a game. We did , it turned out to be Parky, who was just a journalist then , not achieved his fame on TV. He was a right prat, we were chasing a low total and he got in and started "farming" the bowling. For the uninitiated that means he was trying to manipulate the game so that he took most of the batting by getting a single at the end of each over and getting down to the other end.. Anyway he tried it once too often and got runout by a truculent team mate. Never liked him since.
 
Silent Blade said:
Found this. Not heard that before. Parkinson being interviewed by a paper

There was Johnny Kelly, our left-winger, who had pace, skill and a left foot capable of crossing the ball with the lace facing wherever the centre-forward desired it.

He so diddled a Southampton full-back called Alf Ramsey that he changed the face of English football. When he became the England manager, Sir Alf produced his ‘wingless wonders’, based not so much on tactical inspiration as hatred of players like Johnny Kelly who had made his life a misery.
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Excellent Silent, my basic memory was correct, although it was me that made the leap to England winning the World Cup. I like the idea of Johnny Kelly getting the lace position right.

Parky was a good writer, his Sunday Times sport related articles (including the one about wingers) were eventually put together as books called Football Mad and Cricket Daft or similar. I remember saying to my Dad at that time that nothing funny ever happened when I was playing village cricket. He pointed out that I came home with a story most weekends, I just never wrote them down, or exaggerated them for comedic effect 🙂

Even fifty years on, I can remember somewhere in rural Cambridgeshire where the village pond was next to the ground, separated only by a low chain link fence. The ball was hit in that general direction and our tubby deep mid wicket kept back-pedalling, got nowhere near the ball and tripped over the fence. He disappeared from sight, and a split second later a huge explosion of water erupted.

The poor lad could have drowned whilst all his sympathetic team mates rolled around on the floor in tears, such was our concern for his well being. He survived and went on to be an Evangelical Preacher in America. I’m unsure whether his baptism in Bassingbourn or somewhere similar was pivotal in his choice of calling.
 
HodgysBrokenThumb said:
As XM657 has said, it was the lineup for several games (much to my surprise). It seems to have resulted from signing Pace. If you follow the programmes below, you will see (I hope) my arrows indicating the positional change from centre-forward for Hawksworth. By the time of the Doncaster game, Hawksworth and Hodgson had swapped places. Total football?
View attachment 104353View attachment 104354View attachment 104355View attachment 104356View attachment 104357View attachment 104358
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Apologies for repeating your post ref. the WBA cup game, in answer to BH's question I didn't look, our Gert's given me a wrist slap for being dozy.
Interesting post of yours, showing how the unusual left wing combination came about with the purchase of 'Doc'. Mercer maybe started 'total football' at the Lane:).
Pity Joe Mercer didn't stay at the Lane, with his undoubted knowledge and experience, he'd had a pretty illustrious playing career, and more time we could have developed into a progressive club achieving more than we actually did in the preceding years.
Believe he was progressive and knew what he was about, showing it by the way he shuffled his team about to find the best combination. He probably clashed with the board of the time, who were solid but cautious especially when it came to money and steeped in the 'Chapel' way of life.
'Chapel' was a big factor at the Lane since before the war (39-45), to my knowledge, and probably why John Harris ended up manager.
Of course Mercer's tenure coincided with the retirement of JH, so for many years I held my, fifteen year olds, not very favourable opinion of him.
Wondering if you were at the game I first saw 'Doc' Pace, 3 Dec 1955 at the Lane, Jackie Sewell's debut for Aston Villa after his mid week signing from Hillsborough. Remember he scored and folk around me saying what a good player he was. United took a 2-0 lead but 'Doc' scored then to add insult to injury Sewell scored for it to end 2-2.
Looked up the details but the memory of how well he played and the fact he scored, along with Sewell, I've carried with me all these years.
Fuck! Flecks just shot wide with a good chance, at 0-1 down, 3mins + added time left.
 
XM657 said:
Apologies for repeating your post ref. the WBA cup game, in answer to BH's question I didn't look, our Gert's given me a wrist slap for being dozy.
Interesting post of yours, showing how the unusual left wing combination came about with the purchase of 'Doc'. Mercer maybe started 'total football' at the Lane:).
Pity Joe Mercer didn't stay at the Lane, with his undoubted knowledge and experience, he'd had a pretty illustrious playing career, and more time we could have developed into a progressive club achieving more than we actually did in the preceding years.
Believe he was progressive and knew what he was about, showing it by the way he shuffled his team about to find the best combination. He probably clashed with the board of the time, who were solid but cautious especially when it came to money and steeped in the 'Chapel' way of life.
'Chapel' was a big factor at the Lane since before the war (39-45), to my knowledge, and probably why John Harris ended up manager.
Of course Mercer's tenure coincided with the retirement of JH, so for many years I held my, fifteen year olds, not very favourable opinion of him.
Wondering if you were at the game I first saw 'Doc' Pace, 3 Dec 1955 at the Lane, Jackie Sewell's debut for Aston Villa after his mid week signing from Hillsborough. Remember he scored and folk around me saying what a good player he was. United took a 2-0 lead but 'Doc' scored then to add insult to injury Sewell scored for it to end 2-2.
Looked up the details but the memory of how well he played and the fact he scored, along with Sewell, I've carried with me all these years.
Fuck! Flecks just shot wide with a good chance, at 0-1 down, 3mins + added time left.
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You did well to type that with Utd all over Man City! I don’t remember the Villa game, but I was only 8. I do remember the Boxing Day debut from Pace, though. My reservations over Mercer come from:
1. He bought Barrass from Bolton, to replace Joe Shaw. Did not please many.
2. Being deafened for 90 mins standing next to a bloke shouting ‘Mercer out’, during the 7-2 home defeat by Rotherham.
3.Recently found out about the trip to Anfield where he played 2 full-backs on the wings (Graham Shaw and Jeff Smith). Wing-backs would have been ahead of his time, but we had 4 full-backs in that starting XI. That was never going to end well.
But he was a good character, and achieved plenty in football.
 
HodgysBrokenThumb said:
You did well to type that with Utd all over Man City! I don’t remember the Villa game, but I was only 8. I do remember the Boxing Day debut from Pace, though. My reservations over Mercer come from:
1. He bought Barrass from Bolton, to replace Joe Shaw. Did not please many.
2. Being deafened for 90 mins standing next to a bloke shouting ‘Mercer out’, during the 7-2 home defeat by Rotherham.
3.Recently found out about the trip to Anfield where he played 2 full-backs on the wings (Graham Shaw and Jeff Smith). Wing-backs would have been ahead of his time, but we had 4 full-backs in that starting XI. That was never going to end well.
But he was a good character, and achieved plenty in football.
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Your point about full backs reminded me of Harry Haslam and his penchant for collecting left backs.! At one time I'm sure he played three in the same team,
there was Stuart Houston, Les Tibbott, and Paul Garner.
 
Big Hitter said:
Hi Hodgy, no I don't remember that incident, I do remember a match v Huddersfield about the same time when one of their players did break a leg and Hagan was involved somehow. No--- found that in Clarebrough's book. That was 1949, before your time I think.!
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For the record the only time Jimmy Hagan was involved with breaking an opposition players leg was as you say on 29 January 1949 against Huddersfield Town when Conway Smith was trying to tackle JH but it resulted in a clash of boots resulting in Smith breaking his leg & Hagan was not blamed in any way for the accident. Smith was the son of Billy Smith a famous Huddersfield Town player in the 1930's who also played for England.

The only time Hagan was sent off in a first team game for United was against Swansea Town on 20 December 1952 when he apparently was involved with Billy Lucas who had been niggling Hagan throughout the game. United won this game 7-1 & at a personal hearing the following week he was cautioned by the FA but not suspended.
 
peniblade said:
The only time Hagan was sent off in a first team game for United was against Swansea Town on 20 December 1952 when he apparently was involved with Billy Lucas who had been niggling Hagan throughout the game. United won this game 7-1 & at a personal hearing the following week he was cautioned by the FA but not suspended.
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A friend of mine remembered that match, the crowd were furious with the ref and threw oranges and bananas at the ref
 
peniblade said:
For the record the only time Jimmy Hagan was involved with breaking an opposition players leg was as you say on 29 January 1949 against Huddersfield Town when Conway Smith was trying to tackle JH but it resulted in a clash of boots resulting in Smith breaking his leg & Hagan was not blamed in any way for the accident. Smith was the son of Billy Smith a famous Huddersfield Town player in the 1930's who also played for England.

The only time Hagan was sent off in a first team game for United was against Swansea Town on 20 December 1952 when he apparently was involved with Billy Lucas who had been niggling Hagan throughout the game. United won this game 7-1 & at a personal hearing the following week he was cautioned by the FA but not suspended.
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Thanks for that. I will now put my ‘memory’ in the false memory category. I wonder if it was a Wednesdayite’s story I fell for. They were quite bitter about him not signing for them. And I certainly don’t want to disrespect the great man’s reputation.
 

peniblade said:
For the record the only time Jimmy Hagan was involved with breaking an opposition players leg was as you say on 29 January 1949 against Huddersfield Town when Conway Smith was trying to tackle JH but it resulted in a clash of boots resulting in Smith breaking his leg & Hagan was not blamed in any way for the accident. Smith was the son of Billy Smith a famous Huddersfield Town player in the 1930's who also played for England.

The only time Hagan was sent off in a first team game for United was against Swansea Town on 20 December 1952 when he apparently was involved with Billy Lucas who had been niggling Hagan throughout the game. United won this game 7-1 & at a personal hearing the following week he was cautioned by the FA but not suspended.
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That’s great information - many thanks and perhaps you can help me with this one .

I have a memory of a vicious little Grunter called Vince Kenny (I think) going studs first into Hagan’s balls near the halfway line and being sent off . Can you confirm this and have you any information as to which match it was etc.?
 
Isaw Joeshaw said:
That’s great information - many thanks and perhaps you can help me with this one .

I have a memory of a vicious little Grunter called Vince Kenny (I think) going studs first into Hagan’s balls near the halfway line and being sent off . Can you confirm this and have you any information as to which match it was etc.?
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The game you are referring to was a FA Cup 3rd round replay after a 1-1 draw at Hillsborough & United lost 1-3 on 13 January 1954.

For your information I quote the following " Kenny speaking of the sending off incident in the 1954 FA Cup replay at Bramall Lane said "I never touched Hagan. If I had he wouldn't have played for a month ! I think Colin Rawson had curled a free-kick towards our goal and, anticipating where the ball was dropping, I got there just before jimmy, but he fell as if I'd caught him. I couldn't believe it when I was sent off, but you didn't argue in those days. I went straight to the dressing room, which meant I missed seeing the goals that won the game". Someone noted that the "battle" between Kenny & Hagan had started in the first game when the pair were lectured; & also recalled a free-kick which Hagan had hit straight at Kenny (leaving him doubled up in pain) when the Owls back failed to retreat.

I trust that this is the game you are referring to in your post & it was the first "Derby" match I saw as a young 6 year old & I can just remember the incident !
 
peniblade said:
The game you are referring to was a FA Cup 3rd round replay after a 1-1 draw at Hillsborough & United lost 1-3 on 13 January 1954.

For your information I quote the following " Kenny speaking of the sending off incident in the 1954 FA Cup replay at Bramall Lane said "I never touched Hagan. If I had he wouldn't have played for a month ! I think Colin Rawson had curled a free-kick towards our goal and, anticipating where the ball was dropping, I got there just before jimmy, but he fell as if I'd caught him. I couldn't believe it when I was sent off, but you didn't argue in those days. I went straight to the dressing room, which meant I missed seeing the goals that won the game". Someone noted that the "battle" between Kenny & Hagan had started in the first game when the pair were lectured; & also recalled a free-kick which Hagan had hit straight at Kenny (leaving him doubled up in pain) when the Owls back failed to retreat.

I trust that this is the game you are referring to in your post & it was the first "Derby" match I saw as a young 6 year old & I can just remember the incident !
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Thanks for confirming one memory - the free-kick hit into the nether regions of players not retreating. I thought I remembered it from a game v Huddersfield the year before. But at least it happened! Would be even better to do it now- should be an automatic yellow card for the crumpled-up defender to add to the physical pain.
 
peniblade said:
The game you are referring to was a FA Cup 3rd round replay after a 1-1 draw at Hillsborough & United lost 1-3 on 13 January 1954.

For your information I quote the following " Kenny speaking of the sending off incident in the 1954 FA Cup replay at Bramall Lane said "I never touched Hagan. If I had he wouldn't have played for a month ! I think Colin Rawson had curled a free-kick towards our goal and, anticipating where the ball was dropping, I got there just before jimmy, but he fell as if I'd caught him. I couldn't believe it when I was sent off, but you didn't argue in those days. I went straight to the dressing room, which meant I missed seeing the goals that won the game". Someone noted that the "battle" between Kenny & Hagan had started in the first game when the pair were lectured; & also recalled a free-kick which Hagan had hit straight at Kenny (leaving him doubled up in pain) when the Owls back failed to retreat.

I trust that this is the game you are referring to in your post & it was the first "Derby" match I saw as a young 6 year old & I can just remember the incident !
Click to expand...

That’s the one ! Many thanks .

As I’ve mentioned before on here , the replay coincided with my form’s games afternoon so we were given the option of running around in the freezing cold for a couple of hours or going to the match .

Obviously chose the latter but came away feeling thoroughly pissed off . :(
 
peniblade said:
For the record the only time Jimmy Hagan was involved with breaking an opposition players leg was as you say on 29 January 1949 against Huddersfield Town when Conway Smith was trying to tackle JH but it resulted in a clash of boots resulting in Smith breaking his leg & Hagan was not blamed in any way for the accident. Smith was the son of Billy Smith a famous Huddersfield Town player in the 1930's who also played for England.

The only time Hagan was sent off in a first team game for United was against Swansea Town on 20 December 1952 when he apparently was involved with Billy Lucas who had been niggling Hagan throughout the game. United won this game 7-1 & at a personal hearing the following week he was cautioned by the FA but not suspended.
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That is a brilliant summing up peni. I was at both games and when Smith and Hagan clashed, jH knew immediately the leg was broken and held onto Smith before he collapsed on the floor. As you say no question of foul play. A friend and I ( some years later ) when discussing the Swansea game and JH sending off both remembered the game the same as yourself - that Billy Lucas deliberately set out to thwart the game and JH by ankle tapping and elbowing JH througout the game. Anybody else would have put Lucas up in the air a lot earlier then the incident. It was said to me later by the old man, that the referee had to be escorted out of the ground by a back entrance, with a Police escort, to avoid the Blades fans waiting for him on John St.
Would have loved to have seen that.!
 
Mad Mick said:
Pye Bank School from the tower blocks in 1969. Sadly I've lost the negative, so this is actually a photograph of a print. I was at my grandparent'sView attachment 104441 house when I took this. My grandad Bill Greenwood went to Pye Bank School.
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Which direction is this facing Mick? East or N. East maybe. Could that be Parkwood springs in background?
 
Silent Blade said:
TC opening the Dronfield Sports Centre in 1973

View attachment 104389
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The little curly hair lad is Mark Bramwell (Brammy). He climbed up the floodlight pylon at Cambridge in May 1979, police told him to come down, he came down but managed to evade the Policemen trying to arrest him by nipping through the crowd and the Blades fans were making sure he was out of sight!
 
Regarding bananas , as mentioned in the post involving the match in 1949, I seem to remember seeing my first banana in around 1948- 1949.We had to be shown how to peel them. Not many people would realise that some foodstuff was not available until well after the war. I think the last of rationing finished in 1954. Unless that is all a load of bananas.
 

benn5712 said:
Which direction is this facing Mick? East or N. East maybe. Could that be Parkwood springs in background?
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Not sure on direction but I think the school top left is Burngreave and the church is no longer there but I think is All Saints.
 
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