No Money For Transfers or Loans

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If the Prince fully believed that Wilder is his manager long term he would surely back him a little bit in this transfer window. No one is expecting record breaking stuff but surely a loan signing.

Makes me wonder how long Wilder has left at the club. Seems like the beginning of the end to me.
I think the point now is the type of signing.

If we are going to spaff 4m on Lingard there is really not much point given our points total.

Now if we say wanted Daniel Johnson because we thought he could be a good player next year and he's out of contract in the summer so could get for very little, then that might get a different reaction.
 

A fraction of the £85 million wasted

Actually it's a lot more than that if you add Freeman and Robinson and McBurnie and Mouset

Close to £130 million on eight players who have made hardly any impact at all

Suspect arithmetic there, plus double counting. Wum score 2/10.
 
It's all over, we're just at the "staying together for the sake of the kids" bit until either HRH or CW works out that the kids aren't stupid and all dragging it out is doing is kicking the healing process further down the track and does more harm than good.
 
Thing is Wilder held all the cards before.

New contracts given every few months seemingly to him..subtle comments about the squad would see him get a player here or there. He asked the Prince for bit more money for signings...McBurnie, Berge, Ramsdale, Brewster all came in for money SUFC have never even entertained.

Yes he did not get Cash and Robinson but still was given sizeable fees even taking the wage argument out if it.

Training ground being upgraded after he kept mentioning that was another example.

He basically to some degree dictated everything and the board gave him most things they could. Yes he would have liked more on wages of course and even more money but I think overall the board have done what they can to help him. His success and what he did meant noone would question him or his decisions.

His star could not have been higher. He was the darling of the media and PL in March.

Now in less than a year...his reputation has nosedived so much it is shocking and upsetting as a huge fan of his.

His signings have been panned and mostly disastrous since the summer sadly. The consensus nationally are that his tactics and style has been worked out and we are on the verge of being the worst ever side in top flight history. We are a laughing stock and he is presiding over that.

He may get the monk on all he wants but the owner and his board will not allow more funds to be squandered and rightly so. He has had his chance really and has fucked up massively on recruitment. Not sure anyone can argue too much on that.

I am not being harsh to say Ramsdale and Brewster might feature in the 3 worst signings (fee wise...yes I know the wages argument comes into it) this Premier League season for the whole league. I am struggling to think of any others from the summer at say 15+ million that have had less impact or looked so much out of their depth. I know they are young and may improve.

If I was Abdullah I'd tell him get the players you believed in and nagged me for the money to sign,to perform or move some of them on/recoup some and then we will talk again.

Wilder can moan and grumble about not getting any more money but for once I am not in agreement if that is the case. The season has gone. It's too late now.

If he walks over that then I am not sure the football world would offer much sympathy at all. If he resigned as he felt that he'd gone as far as he could and it was just all too much mentally and he needed a break/wanted players to gave a different voice etc then that's different. I did see that happening and still might.

The above may come across as anti Wilder. It's not. I do stand by the critique of his signings particularly last summer.

I maintain and always have I want him here next season and hopefully for years to come.

I do think he needs to lose some of the stubbornness and also realise that he has to get more out of certain players. He has signed them so internal improvement/development/coaching like he did albeit at a lower level needs to be more of a factor.

I think he needs to evolve the side/style and build another great side/way of playing. Like Ferguson did at Man Utd.

I don't agree if we are not straight back up he has failed. I see no issue us staying in the Champ for a few years if he was building something sustainable for us hopefully getting back to the EPL. Fans may have to accept that he may have to change half a dozen at least of the side. In the short term losing the continuity may lead to it taking longer but may be good in the long term.

But going back to the point if he spat the dummy out about not being allowed more signings/money now then he's treading a thin line. The Prince now holds the cards. If Wilder did walk his next job would be a mid table Champ side at best after this season. People may scoff at that but you are only as good as your most recent season/s in terms of attractiveness to employers. I recall managers like Dowie, Howe, Wagner, Jewell all having promotions aplenty but now noone is remotely interested in them and a few just left management.

I think Wilder is better than them but you get my point. He could be back at Lg 1/ 2 before you know it. Football is a tough business and a few bad seasons and a manager can be done at the top level...see Adkins...similiar type managerial trajectory to Wilder. Now can't even sniff a job.

Wilder needs to be careful as his tantrums (if there are any and not sure his no comment is that so maybe people are reading between the lines a bit too much) will not impress a board that have seen him effectively throw away 50+ million on 4 players who have not improved the side at all and Bogle maybe apart (and hes only had maybe 1 or 2 decent Prem games) look like players not good enough for this level.

He needs to just get on with things with the squad he has built now...granted a few injuries but he was the one who chose to sign Rodwell, Jags, Foderingham, Jack Robinson etc....all players he does not trust to play for the most part.

As I say I love Wilder and believe after a bad season if he stays he will come back re-energised and we will see a different side and maybe approach come August.
I don't quite see the degree of turnover you mentioned in your earlier post DB, I just think with covid etc we will end up being more selective and players like Fleck and Norwood will be allowed to go again next season. When we have majority possession they cna still be far more effective.

But on the post I quoted I agree 100%.

You can't on one hand be saying you won't jeopardise the club, but be continually asking for money and being unhappy once refused. We haven't sold anyone of nay note.

It's not a bottomless pit.

Everyone wanted the ownership issue resolved and it has been and there has been some cost to that.

Whenever he's come asking - McBurnie, Berge, Brewster, new training complex, it's been met with a reasonable response that has favoured Chris.

It's now time for Chris to also be reasonable. There may well be a long period of time still without gate receipts and we have to be ready for that too.

No doubt we have been horrendously unlucky with injuries. We've also had some poor early season decisions which went against us. We've had 3 VAR calls go our way but this also tells its own story that the onfield refs are getting plenty wrong in our games. So how many do they get wrong that VAR doesn't correct?

But, we didn't help ourselves in the market. Chris has to own that. He has to offload the mistakes for which he can't build a team that bounces back and he needs to integrate those who maybe weren't ready this season but are expected to be next year.

In many ways we are the best job for him. Maybe if we were repeating last season, he'd be a contender for an Everton if it came up, perhaps. Maybe Newcastle would consider him. You'd probably be looking at a Derby, Stoke type club.

So why bother. He's got as much appreciation as he is likely to get from an owner. Despite possibly still going down with a record low points he's got backing if the fans. Sometimes the grass isn't always greener.

Time to close ranks, accept the reality of this season whilst still ensuing a spot on attitude and look forward.
 
Some good points Deadbat I agree with some of it and disagree with other parts. it Is all opinions about what goes on behind the scenes I don’t think we will ever fully know the truth about transfers and who the manager may have wanted.

It’s a pretty good summary of how the less extreme of our fanbase see things IMO.
 
Thing is Wilder held all the cards before.

New contracts given every few months seemingly to him..subtle comments about the squad would see him get a player here or there. He asked the Prince for bit more money for signings...McBurnie, Berge, Ramsdale, Brewster all came in for money SUFC have never even entertained.

Yes he did not get Cash and Robinson but still was given sizeable fees even taking the wage argument out if it.

Training ground being upgraded after he kept mentioning that was another example.

He basically to some degree dictated everything and the board gave him most things they could. Yes he would have liked more on wages of course and even more money but I think overall the board have done what they can to help him. His success and what he did meant noone would question him or his decisions.

His star could not have been higher. He was the darling of the media and PL in March.

Now in less than a year...his reputation has nosedived so much it is shocking and upsetting as a huge fan of his.

His signings have been panned and mostly disastrous since the summer sadly. The consensus nationally are that his tactics and style has been worked out and we are on the verge of being the worst ever side in top flight history. We are a laughing stock and he is presiding over that.

He may get the monk on all he wants but the owner and his board will not allow more funds to be squandered and rightly so. He has had his chance really and has fucked up massively on recruitment. Not sure anyone can argue too much on that.

I am not being harsh to say Ramsdale and Brewster might feature in the 3 worst signings (fee wise...yes I know the wages argument comes into it) this Premier League season for the whole league. I am struggling to think of any others from the summer at say 15+ million that have had less impact or looked so much out of their depth. I know they are young and may improve.

If I was Abdullah I'd tell him get the players you believed in and nagged me for the money to sign,to perform or move some of them on/recoup some and then we will talk again.

Wilder can moan and grumble about not getting any more money but for once I am not in agreement if that is the case. The season has gone. It's too late now.

If he walks over that then I am not sure the football world would offer much sympathy at all. If he resigned as he felt that he'd gone as far as he could and it was just all too much mentally and he needed a break/wanted players to gave a different voice etc then that's different. I did see that happening and still might.

The above may come across as anti Wilder. It's not. I do stand by the critique of his signings particularly last summer.

I maintain and always have I want him here next season and hopefully for years to come.

I do think he needs to lose some of the stubbornness and also realise that he has to get more out of certain players. He has signed them so internal improvement/development/coaching like he did albeit at a lower level needs to be more of a factor.

I think he needs to evolve the side/style and build another great side/way of playing. Like Ferguson did at Man Utd.

I don't agree if we are not straight back up he has failed. I see no issue us staying in the Champ for a few years if he was building something sustainable for us hopefully getting back to the EPL. Fans may have to accept that he may have to change half a dozen at least of the side. In the short term losing the continuity may lead to it taking longer but may be good in the long term.

But going back to the point if he spat the dummy out about not being allowed more signings/money now then he's treading a thin line. The Prince now holds the cards. If Wilder did walk his next job would be a mid table Champ side at best after this season. People may scoff at that but you are only as good as your most recent season/s in terms of attractiveness to employers. I recall managers like Dowie, Howe, Wagner, Jewell all having promotions aplenty but now noone is remotely interested in them and a few just left management.

I think Wilder is better than them but you get my point. He could be back at Lg 1/ 2 before you know it. Football is a tough business and a few bad seasons and a manager can be done at the top level...see Adkins...similiar type managerial trajectory to Wilder. Now can't even sniff a job.

Wilder needs to be careful as his tantrums (if there are any and not sure his no comment is that so maybe people are reading between the lines a bit too much) will not impress a board that have seen him effectively throw away 50+ million on 4 players who have not improved the side at all and Bogle maybe apart (and hes only had maybe 1 or 2 decent Prem games) look like players not good enough for this level.

He needs to just get on with things with the squad he has built now...granted a few injuries but he was the one who chose to sign Rodwell, Jags, Foderingham, Jack Robinson etc....all players he does not trust to play for the most part.

As I say I love Wilder and believe after a bad season if he stays he will come back re-energised and we will see a different side and maybe approach come August.
Fantastic post. Definitely sums up how I and I'm guessing many others are feeling ATM. ⚔️
 
Can't see Berge still being here, but other than that I agree.
No doubt we'll cash in at the first or second tentative bid unlike the massive & ambitious Reading, Bournemouth & Norwich who were able to retain, Swift, Barnes & Cantwell. Mind you each was linked with us so our offer of the minimum wage with a sizeable number of co-op vouchers chucked in for a man of the match performance probably went against us.
 
Suspect arithmetic there, plus double counting. Wum score 2/10.

The original £85 million wasn't my figure
But if you add £5 million for Freeman , £8 million for Robinson, £10 million for Mousett and £17 million for McBurnie we're not far off £130 million
 
The original £85 million wasn't my figure
But if you add £5 million for Freeman , £8 million for Robinson, £10 million for Mousett and £17 million for McBurnie we're not far off £130 million

How’s the £85m made up?
 
How’s the £85m made up?
Ok let's add Lowe, Jack Robinson, Jagielka, Rodwell and the wonder kid who nobody's managed to get more than 11 seconds of decent football out of in his entire career, instead of McBurnie.
Either way, complete waste of money, wages and shirt space.
You could probably include Osborne and Bogle in that too, they've been steady, reasonable, and average as we like our players to be of course.
 
Ok let's add Lowe, Jack Robinson, Jagielka, Rodwell and the wonder kid who nobody's managed to get more than 11 seconds of decent football out of in his entire career, instead of McBurnie.
Either way, complete waste of money, wages and shirt space.
You could probably include Osborne and Bogle in that too, they've been steady, reasonable, and average as we like our players to be of course.

So not £130m then. Thanks.
 
Here is some sobering figures and this is why wages are a much bigger issue than transfer fees which are paid of a number of years and have certain triggers attached to them. Brighton’s wage bill is 101m and they are 4th from bottom. Don’t forget that’s 101m a year so if they go down unless they can offload players they are paying that in the championship.

Ours is less than a third of that, so when everyone is banging on about how much we have spent this should also be factored into it. Unfortunately we need a miracle year on year to just survive.

 
3 outfield players, who, given their injury records, could have been available for about 5 matches...
I could name you so many better options than those, I can’t believe they’re the ones he went for to back up his point 😂
 

Everyone wanted the ownership issue resolved and it has been and there has been some cost to that.

The Anti-McCabes have their fingers in their ears and are shouting 'NOOOOOOOOOO'.

Any 'cost' is obviously down to McCabe stealing, lying, cheating and oh,.....er.......legally selling the assets he owned in line with the ownership agreement.

A very reasoned post from Champagneblade , which will be too much for some.
 
Who’s blaming the board? It seems like you dont want to accept the facts of the situation. Shouting and saying everything is fucked and Wilder has fucked it all up is just based on emotion because of the awful season we have had.
Its ok saying you wouldn’t have given players contract extensions or contracts we need 20 odd players to make a squad. We aren’t in a position to have squad players who would get into any premier league squad sat on the bench.
I think you need to understand where we have come from and how quick it has been we never had the chance to even build a solid championship squad before we got promoted. Now you think we should have a squad of players all with premiership experience or quality. We are Sheffield United not Manchester City, we are going down so what. If we hold out nerve we will be back up again pretty quickly it was always going to be a 5-10 year build. The problem was our manager got us there in less than half that time.
I am unsure why you are so angry about? I am disappointed but not angry. We have to take a step back so what we are in an unbelievable financial position now form where we were. Now is the time to build the club on solid footings not risk everything just so it looks like we are “going for it”. By the way you never actually explained what going for it consisted of and where you expected it to get us? I take it your have looked at Brighton’s finances have you?
You’ve ignored everything I’ve said to bang on about wages, just like Wilder does coincidentally

I’m not angry by the way, I’m disappointed at how we’ve gone about our business in the top league and also the style of football we’ve been turning out for a year or so, it’s been dull as fuck and made a Bassett side look like a Pep team, for some reason it barely gets mentioned about the lack of style we play, in fact what style is it?

We’ve lost the identity of a never say die and we’ll take it to them team no matter what the score will be, this was what set Wilder apart from others. This has nothing to do with fees or wages, how can it, we spent more this season on both than last season, we did better last year and played better football in doing so?
 
Let's say we paid them £4 million a year, with a £2 million signing on bonus, so £6 million per player for one year x 4 which is £24 million. That's obscenely high and would work out at £76 k a week which I'm sure is more than what they are on now. But still it leads to:

£24 million vs. £80 million (+ whatever wages bonuses Brewster etc is on)

Look I don't think it would necessarily have been a better approach, but I believe we could have been a bit more... nuanced?
Brewster hasn't got any bonuses yet
 
Some good arguments posed here and I tend to go with the Robboblade view as I can't think of a successful Premiership club that doesn't have hugely more funding than we have. The Prince cannot be faulted in his support for the club in my view but is there one top club that has been able to gradually build it's way rather than buy it's way there?
 
Here is some sobering figures and this is why wages are a much bigger issue than transfer fees which are paid of a number of years and have certain triggers attached to them. Brighton’s wage bill is 101m and they are 4th from bottom. Don’t forget that’s 101m a year so if they go down unless they can offload players they are paying that in the championship.

Ours is less than a third of that, so when everyone is banging on about how much we have spent this should also be factored into it. Unfortunately we need a miracle year on year to just survive.



This one wants highlighting.

We all know Blades Analytics works in the pro game, so I'd suggest his estimates are far more valid than many of the experts on here.

£35-38m per year is shockingly high for what we've got, yet people have been seriously suggesting we should have signed Joe Hart, Danny Wellbeck, Jack Wilshere et al.
These crocks were all at big clubs and would have been earning significantly more than £100k per week. Chuck in national insurance and pension contribution and any one of these would each add an absolute minimum of £7m per year to our wage bill.

Going down with a £38m wage bill is bad enough although there will be some relegation clauses to reduce it a little for next year. Would we really want to be Brighton, spunking £100m per year, just for a seat at the table?
 
Thing is Wilder held all the cards before.

New contracts given every few months seemingly to him..subtle comments about the squad would see him get a player here or there. He asked the Prince for bit more money for signings...McBurnie, Berge, Ramsdale, Brewster all came in for money SUFC have never even entertained.

Yes he did not get Cash and Robinson but still was given sizeable fees even taking the wage argument out if it.

Training ground being upgraded after he kept mentioning that was another example.

He basically to some degree dictated everything and the board gave him most things they could. Yes he would have liked more on wages of course and even more money but I think overall the board have done what they can to help him. His success and what he did meant noone would question him or his decisions.

His star could not have been higher. He was the darling of the media and PL in March.

Now in less than a year...his reputation has nosedived so much it is shocking and upsetting as a huge fan of his.

His signings have been panned and mostly disastrous since the summer sadly. The consensus nationally are that his tactics and style has been worked out and we are on the verge of being the worst ever side in top flight history. We are a laughing stock and he is presiding over that.

He may get the monk on all he wants but the owner and his board will not allow more funds to be squandered and rightly so. He has had his chance really and has fucked up massively on recruitment. Not sure anyone can argue too much on that.

I am not being harsh to say Ramsdale and Brewster might feature in the 3 worst signings (fee wise...yes I know the wages argument comes into it) this Premier League season for the whole league. I am struggling to think of any others from the summer at say 15+ million that have had less impact or looked so much out of their depth. I know they are young and may improve.

If I was Abdullah I'd tell him get the players you believed in and nagged me for the money to sign,to perform or move some of them on/recoup some and then we will talk again.

Wilder can moan and grumble about not getting any more money but for once I am not in agreement if that is the case. The season has gone. It's too late now.

If he walks over that then I am not sure the football world would offer much sympathy at all. If he resigned as he felt that he'd gone as far as he could and it was just all too much mentally and he needed a break/wanted players to gave a different voice etc then that's different. I did see that happening and still might.

The above may come across as anti Wilder. It's not. I do stand by the critique of his signings particularly last summer.

I maintain and always have I want him here next season and hopefully for years to come.

I do think he needs to lose some of the stubbornness and also realise that he has to get more out of certain players. He has signed them so internal improvement/development/coaching like he did albeit at a lower level needs to be more of a factor.

I think he needs to evolve the side/style and build another great side/way of playing. Like Ferguson did at Man Utd.

I don't agree if we are not straight back up he has failed. I see no issue us staying in the Champ for a few years if he was building something sustainable for us hopefully getting back to the EPL. Fans may have to accept that he may have to change half a dozen at least of the side. In the short term losing the continuity may lead to it taking longer but may be good in the long term.

But going back to the point if he spat the dummy out about not being allowed more signings/money now then he's treading a thin line. The Prince now holds the cards. If Wilder did walk his next job would be a mid table Champ side at best after this season. People may scoff at that but you are only as good as your most recent season/s in terms of attractiveness to employers. I recall managers like Dowie, Howe, Wagner, Jewell all having promotions aplenty but now noone is remotely interested in them and a few just left management.

I think Wilder is better than them but you get my point. He could be back at Lg 1/ 2 before you know it. Football is a tough business and a few bad seasons and a manager can be done at the top level...see Adkins...similiar type managerial trajectory to Wilder. Now can't even sniff a job.

Wilder needs to be careful as his tantrums (if there are any and not sure his no comment is that so maybe people are reading between the lines a bit too much) will not impress a board that have seen him effectively throw away 50+ million on 4 players who have not improved the side at all and Bogle maybe apart (and hes only had maybe 1 or 2 decent Prem games) look like players not good enough for this level.

He needs to just get on with things with the squad he has built now...granted a few injuries but he was the one who chose to sign Rodwell, Jags, Foderingham, Jack Robinson etc....all players he does not trust to play for the most part.

As I say I love Wilder and believe after a bad season if he stays he will come back re-energised and we will see a different side and maybe approach come August.
Boom. That's the money shot.
 
Some good arguments posed here and I tend to go with the Robboblade view as I can't think of a successful Premiership club that doesn't have hugely more funding than we have. The Prince cannot be faulted in his support for the club in my view but is there one top club that has been able to gradually build it's way rather than buy it's way there?
i think the prince has done as much as he possibly could have in backing chris its just that his 3 big signings that should have improved us ramsdale berge and brewster havent paid off yet and although berge will probably go theres still time for the 2 young lads to come good in the championship
 
This one wants highlighting.

We all know Blades Analytics works in the pro game, so I'd suggest his estimates are far more valid than many of the experts on here.

£35-38m per year is shockingly high for what we've got, yet people have been seriously suggesting we should have signed Joe Hart, Danny Wellbeck, Jack Wilshere et al.
These crocks were all at big clubs and would have been earning significantly more than £100k per week. Chuck in national insurance and pension contribution and any one of these would each add an absolute minimum of £7m per year to our wage bill.

Going down with a £38m wage bill is bad enough although there will be some relegation clauses to reduce it a little for next year. Would we really want to be Brighton, spunking £100m per year, just for a seat at the table?
But Jim Phipps said (and the owner retweeted) that our first team was on £40-£55k per week? That's an average of £47.5k which is £2.5m (broadly) per player per year. Over a core of 15 first team players you're looking at £37m. Add in bonuses for staying up last season and the fringe players and the management and it'll be in the £50-£70m ballpark so quite a bit higher than BA's estimate but still way lower than every other PL side last season with the possible exception of Norwich.

EDIT just seen this from Kieran Maguire:


£89m for that Norwich squad :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
 
But Jim Phipps said (and the owner retweeted) that our first team was on £40-£55k per week? That's an average of £47.5k which is £2.5m (broadly) per player per year. Over a core of 15 first team players you're looking at £37m. Add in bonuses for staying up last season and the fringe players and the management and it'll be in the £50-£70m ballpark so quite a bit higher than BA's estimate but still way lower than every other PL side last season with the possible exception of Norwich.

EDIT just seen this from Kieran Maguire:


£89m for that Norwich squad :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:


I will raise you Forbes magazine who came away with a figure of 56 million for the 19/20 season after interviewing the Prince (no idea if that includes bonuses). The Phipps statement retweeted by the Prince was very carefully worded and revealed nothing imo.

 
It is largely irrelevant how much the wage bill is. We will be told next season we have to sell before we can buy, otherwise there’s no money.
 
It is largely irrelevant how much the wage bill is. We will be told next season we have to sell before we can buy, otherwise there’s no money.
So transfer fees are relevant but the wage bill isn’t? I actually think it’s the other way round. If we have done things properly which I believe we have then we shouldn’t be going down lumbered with silly contracts. That should put us in a very strong position.
We may have to sell a couple of players to raise some funds as well as the players wanting to move. I’ve said it before but it’s mainly the wage bill that gets clubs into financial difficulty. This is the main reason why we haven’t got these established players who can hit the ground running in the premier league. It’s been a risk bringing in the players we have and it hasn’t worked but the bigger risk would have been going all out on wages and that not working either.
 
Foreign this job, foreign that job. Tell you what, sack every fecker in the country doing whatever job and import the replacements.
Improve everything in one fell swoop.
 

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