18th December 10.30 a.m. Copthorne Hotel

[essex blade]

Myself and mrs essex will be travelling 200 miles to attend the agm and the match in the afternoon , but the only reason its being held in the hotel is because the other function suites at the lane will be set out for the afternoons matchday duties . simple as , no argument !

 

[Studge]

Myself and mrs essex will be travelling 200 miles to attend the agm and the match in the afternoon , but the only reason its being held in the hotel is because the other function suites at the lane will be set out for the afternoons matchday duties . simple as , no argument !

Now this logical answer could have saved the last three pages of posts.

 

[essex blade]

thank you studge.

 

[AlienWoodward]

Myself and mrs essex will be travelling 200 miles to attend the agm and the match in the afternoon , but the only reason its being held in the hotel is because the other function suites at the lane will be set out for the afternoons matchday duties . simple as , no argument !

No it's not,it's something to do with McCabe making 20p a pint out of the shareholders,just ask Len he'll tell you all about it.

 

[Trigger Blade]

Now this logical answer could have saved the last three pages of posts.

Nice one essex. I have to admit, I hadn't clocked the fact that the AGM was on a Saturday, the day of a home game, it changes things fairly dramatically in my view.

It means that United have actually thought about shareholder fans, who now don't have to have a day off work to attend the AGM and is a very welcome move, so well done to the club.

It also makes len look pretty foolish........

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I want to know how exactly he plans to have us debt free by 2013 to be quite honest, that's a hell of a bold statement to make at times like these.

Also, will he be giving GS any support in January, or leaving an already threadbare squad to struggle for the 2nd half of the season too?

Simple reduce the wage bill by at least £3-4 Million and/or get more fans to turn up each week.

It's up to the fans if we get back close to 25,000 then maybe we can sustain our wage bill (just about) if we stay around 21,000 then it has to be cut.

 

[Ballinpigpubs13]

Simple reduce the wage bill by at least £3-4 Million and/or get more fans to turn up each week.

It's up to the fans if we get back close to 25,000 then maybe we can sustain our wage bill (just about) if we stay around 21,000 then it has to be cut.

More like 16,000 next season not 21,000 and that will depend on what division we're in. could go as low as 14,000 imo.

 

[Rudders]

More like 16,000 next season not 21,000 and that will depend on what division we're in. could go as low as 14,000 imo.

I think it all depends on how much they will charge. A lot of people (myself included) have been hurt by the expensive walk up prices, complicated pricing and lack of pay on gate.

If they do some good deals on season tickets (Huddersfield and Bradford) style and try a fairer price I think attendances will hold up.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

It is something they are looking at Rudders but now we only own the football club all monies have to be generated through those.
I would strongly expect players out in January, and some new blood in but you can forget signing ex Premiership players.

 

[Foxy]

I think it all depends on how much they will charge. A lot of people (myself included) have been hurt by the expensive walk up prices, complicated pricing and lack of pay on gate.

If they do some good deals on season tickets (Huddersfield and Bradford) style and try a fairer price I think attendances will hold up.

In the scheme of things, I think ticket pricing is something the Blades have done pretty well the last few years. It could have been far, far worse!

This one'll depend what we can get Villa to agree on.

 

[broomhillblade]

Nice one essex. I have to admit, I hadn't clocked the fact that the AGM was on a Saturday, the day of a home game, it changes things fairly dramatically in my view.

It means that United have actually thought about shareholder fans, who now don't have to have a day off work to attend the AGM and is a very welcome move, so well done to the club.

It also makes len look pretty foolish........

Len would love to apologise, but his keyboard has packed up again....

 

[lenners]

Nice one essex. I have to admit, I hadn't clocked the fact that the AGM was on a Saturday, the day of a home game, it changes things fairly dramatically in my view.

It means that United have actually thought about shareholder fans, who now don't have to have a day off work to attend the AGM and is a very welcome move, so well done to the club.

It also makes len look pretty foolish........

The only mugs will be those Blades who set foot inside the Copthorne from now on. Built by us, money spent on it by us but now not owned by us.
If you choose to ignore what's happened, that's your choice.
I suspect you won't be ignoring it as the months pass.

 

[Yossarian]

lenners isn't going to the AGM because as an Owl, he isn't a shareholding fan of SUFC.

 

[AlienWoodward]

The only mugs will be those Blades who set foot inside the Copthorne from now on. Built by us, money spent on it by us but now not owned by us.
If you choose to ignore what's happened, that's your choice.
I suspect you won't be ignoring it as the months pass.

I'll be the first mug then. Jesus if word gets out you've boycotted it,it will become the number one pre match watering hole. Signs and banners all over it " This place is a Len free zone " ;-)

 

[Rudders]

It is something they are looking at Rudders but now we only own the football club all monies have to be generated through those.
I would strongly expect players out in January, and some new blood in but you can forget signing ex Premiership players.

I would rather we owned more players that have come from the lower leagues than borrow premier league reserves (Andy Reid excepted of course!). As a further point, there's no point buying 110%'ers from the Premier League (Cresswell) when we could have got that same quality (workrate) from the lower league on about 10 times cheaper wage.

 

[lenners]

I'll be the first mug then. Jesus if word gets out you've boycotted it,it will become the number one pre match watering hole. Signs and banners all over it " This place is a Len free zone " ;-)

Never doubted it Alien.
Let's see how the Copthorne adventure pans out in the months to come and if you find it so amusing that the multi-millions we owe will in part be down to a hotel we don't even own.

 

[MunXy]

what multi millions we owe down to the hotel we dont own, im sorry lenners this one has really confused me.are you mc wobblegobs secret love child ?

this to me sounds like gobble a duke, it makes no sense to me, please explain lenners.

MunXy

 

[Blade58]

Anyone seen the following from a new poster on BM? Quite interesting and certainly a little food for thought even if it can't be substantiated:



"Hi guys

Long time reader, first time poster - what has happened to Unitedite by the way???

I've worked with Kevin in the past on variuos projects and have always found him to be capable and a decent chap. However, although I am certainly not an 'in the know' I do know people closely connect to Kevin McCabe. What I can say is that there is currently a certain amount of dicourd within the board with various individuals angry of the 'swap debt for equity' exercise Mr McCabe has been involved in over the last few years. On the face of it it doesn't sound too bad a move on the football clubs behalf but loans were taken out by McCabe on behalf of the club & subsequently exchanged for equity. This equity has been purchased by McCabe for below market value and now as majority shareholder has a strangle hold on United.

This has now developed into football club assets being sold with the proceeds finding their way back into McCabe owned companies. The most worrying information I recently heard however was that a willing investor found by the CEO was sent packing by McCabe as the deal on the table, although very beneficial to the club, did not benefit Kevin enough personally and therefore the investor cancelled further negotiations and is currently in talks with a Spannish club.

Kevin is now all powerful and is pretecting his investment first before considering the good of Sheffield United. It's a shame it has come to this.


Sorry for the long winded first post!

Rgds

Dave"



"As I already mentioned I am certainly no ITK'er, I have had no business contact with Kevin for over 20yrs and have no formal connection with the club. I do however know someone (who shall always remain nameless) who does sit on the board and who I still have business dealings with. In addition to this I am lucky enough to call him a friend and trust him implicitly. This is where I obtain certain information from. Please do not ask me to break this trust, I simply will not and value this more than a bit of internet credability. What I will end by saying is that there are still people who sit on the football clubs board who are fighting for the good of Sheffield United and not certain majority creditors.

You'll just have to make your own mind up Erskin and try and read between the lines.

Rgds

Dave"




It would seem appropriate if someone attending the agm, would be prepared to ask the following question, or a question based on the above as you see fit (I am not a shareholder):





A] When the decision was made at boardroom level to swap the debt for equity ie. the Copthorne Hotel, was this taken as a uninanimous decision by the board, or did any board member raise any concern or objection?

If the answer is yes then:

B] In view of concern or objection to the decision being made, could it be explained as to why please?

It has been made clear to shareholders in the statement published that this decision was taken to

a] target zero external debt by 2013

B] protect the football club

C] Make SUFC more attractive to outside investment

The question has to be asked then as to why there could possibly be any concern by board members when the benefits are there for all to see?



Tbh, I don't even know the members that sit on the board apart from KM and TB

Anyone got the list?

 

[Yossarian]

This may help answer your question, Blade58:

http://www.sufc.co.uk/page/PLC/0,,10418~1091335,00.html

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Anyone seen the following from a new poster on BM? Quite interesting and certainly a little food for thought even if it can't be substantiated:



"Hi guys

Long time reader, first time poster - what has happened to Unitedite by the way???

I've worked with Kevin in the past on variuos projects and have always found him to be capable and a decent chap. However, although I am certainly not an 'in the know' I do know people closely connect to Kevin McCabe. What I can say is that there is currently a certain amount of dicourd within the board with various individuals angry of the 'swap debt for equity' exercise Mr McCabe has been involved in over the last few years. On the face of it it doesn't sound too bad a move on the football clubs behalf but loans were taken out by McCabe on behalf of the club & subsequently exchanged for equity. This equity has been purchased by McCabe for below market value and now as majority shareholder has a strangle hold on United.

This has now developed into football club assets being sold with the proceeds finding their way back into McCabe owned companies. The most worrying information I recently heard however was that a willing investor found by the CEO was sent packing by McCabe as the deal on the table, although very beneficial to the club, did not benefit Kevin enough personally and therefore the investor cancelled further negotiations and is currently in talks with a Spannish club.

Kevin is now all powerful and is pretecting his investment first before considering the good of Sheffield United. It's a shame it has come to this.


Sorry for the long winded first post!

Rgds

Dave"



"As I already mentioned I am certainly no ITK'er, I have had no business contact with Kevin for over 20yrs and have no formal connection with the club. I do however know someone (who shall always remain nameless) who does sit on the board and who I still have business dealings with. In addition to this I am lucky enough to call him a friend and trust him implicitly. This is where I obtain certain information from. Please do not ask me to break this trust, I simply will not and value this more than a bit of internet credability. What I will end by saying is that there are still people who sit on the football clubs board who are fighting for the good of Sheffield United and not certain majority creditors.

You'll just have to make your own mind up Erskin and try and read between the lines.

Rgds

Dave"




It would seem appropriate if someone attending the agm, would be prepared to ask the following question, or a question based on the above as you see fit (I am not a shareholder):





A] When the decision was made at boardroom level to swap the debt for equity ie. the Copthorne Hotel, was this taken as a uninanimous decision by the board, or did any board member raise any concern or objection?

If the answer is yes then:

B] In view of concern or objection to the decision being made, could it be explained as to why please?

It has been made clear to shareholders in the statement published that this decision was taken to

a] target zero external debt by 2013

B] protect the football club

C] Make SUFC more attractive to outside investment

The question has to be asked then as to why there could possibly be any concern by board members when the benefits are there for all to see?



Tbh, I don't even know the members that sit on the board apart from KM and TB

Anyone got the list?

All good stuff, thanks Blade58.

Stuff like this makes it ever more pressing that the shareholders go to the AGM and put the hard questions to the board, regardless of objections to the venue.

 

[lenners]

Highbury,
I don't think it's that complicated.
SUFC is out of pocket on a hotel we built and which was intended to be a revenue stream for us and which is now owned by McCabe, not us.
That's before you start to consider the implications of McCabe controlling both entities in the transaction.

 

[Houso]

Len, I understand your concerns about the transfer of the hotel from SUFC to KM. And I'm going to ignore your your wittering about where the AGM is being held this year (despite a very logical explanation from Essex pages back).

Now, what I'd like to know is if the AGM was held at Bramall Lane, would you have attended? Raul suggests that the reason you don't attend is that all that shareholders receive after tough questions is spin, and not real answers. That may be the case, but asking the tough questions brings such issues to the foreground and makes other shareholders more aware of such worries.... even if there are no actual answers received in exchange. This is a great forum, but it represents a tiny tiny percentage of all SUFC supporters and SUFC shareholders.

Why would you willingly turn down the chance to help save this club via a matchday visit that would take an hour tops?

 

[Micalijo]

Bare in mind this is from a football club's accounts:

'18,000 fewer government room nights and 800 new budget hotel rooms coming on stream in the year depressed room rates.' - page 17.

'Notwithstanding the improved operational performance of the hotel during the year, the business was unable to generate a net profit due to the high finance costs associated with the original debt raised to fund construction of the hotel.'

Sorry, but this is a total and utter disgrace.

I would mention all the times people have been lambasted for suggesting walker was sold to cover property losses but don't want to start all that again of course, not my style.

There's a chill wind affecting football Duncs and thanks to your beloved chairman we are bang in the middle of it.

 

[Houso]

Mic, are you a shareholder? Will you be going? If not, will you be sending a question?

---------- Post added at 09:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 AM ----------

I'm not trying to be glib and insinuate all is well by the way. I genuinely would be interested to hear the answers to these questions and there's no doubt that a little bit of pressure needs to be exerted if only to produce more accountability and communication to supporters who don't have forensic accounting qualifications.

My gut instinct is that things aren't quite as corrupt as what Len and Mic suggest, but there's clearly something amiss.

 

[Micalijo]

Mic, are you a shareholder? Will you be going? If not, will you be sending a question?

---------- Post added at 09:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 AM ----------

I'm not trying to be glib and insinuate all is well by the way. I genuinely would be interested to hear the answers to these questions and there's no doubt that a little bit of pressure needs to be exerted if only to produce more accountability and communication to supporters who don't have forensic accounting qualifications.

My gut instinct is that things aren't quite as corrupt as what Len and Mic suggest, but there's clearly something amiss.

Corrupt? hang on a minute. It's his company, his money, he can do what he wants and not for one second has anything corrupt happened in my opinion.

I just detest what I believe he has done to the football club in terms of funding his property at the expense of the football club. Property prices plummet and the football club lurches into disarray with a disgusting lack of focus on squad building and the future.

Yes I'm a shareholder and yes I intend to go.

 

[Worksop II]

Yes I'm a shareholder and yes I intend to go.

Pah, another one on the McCabe bandwagon - I suppose you will be getting the customary sumptuous Luncheon, served by wretched children from Brazil, who have no other purpose than to pander to Shareholders wanton needs.

A running Display of Chinese Peasants sewing Blades Shirts at 10p a Dozen, between them, before being packed back into their container to Chengdu.

Dancing Girls from Budapest to cater for your every whim, on the Hotel 3rd Floor.

Have you no shame Mic

 

[raul]

Duncs doesn't care Mic, it's sunny.

 

[Micalijo]

Duncs doesn't care Mic, it's sunny.

True. You know what, I had a lovely afternoon with the kids in the park yesterday then took one of em swimming later on. Didn't think of McCabe once.

Woke up, logged on and afraid I still think McCabe sold Walker to fund his property losses - I can't help it - but life must go on.

 

[Trigger Blade]

Pah, another one on the McCabe bandwagon - I suppose you will be getting the customary sumptuous Luncheon, served by wretched children from Brazil, who have no other purpose than to pander to Shareholders wanton needs.

A running Display of Chinese Peasants sewing Blades Shirts at 10p a Dozen, between them, before being packed back into their container to Chengdu.

Dancing Girls from Budapest to cater for your every whim, on the Hotel 3rd Floor.

Have you no shame Mic

Unless Mic's idea of a sumptuous luncheon is a cup of tea and not very many plain biscuits, I doubt he'll be giving up much of a day to fill his face there.

 

[parisblade]

I'm not trying to be glib and insinuate all is well by the way. I genuinely would be interested to hear the answers to these questions and there's no doubt that a little bit of pressure needs to be exerted if only to produce more accountability and communication to supporters who don't have forensic accounting qualifications.

I'd also be interested to learn what was said. Foxy, Linz, will you be there?