Charlieblade
Well-Known Member
Is my passport out of date?There is another positive downside to that though!
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Is my passport out of date?There is another positive downside to that though!
How could any previous development have been anything BUT piecemeal given our financial state over the past umpteen years?I agree totally but that idea went out of the window when we made the kop all seater and built the John Street Stand.
The time to do what you suggest has long since gone and every bit of the ground improvements (if you can actually call them that) have been done on a piece meal basis with no thought what so ever put into having new stands actually look part of what it is next to - even down to the fact that John Street is longer than South Stand - It starts in the same place on the kop end, but at the Bramall Lane end it is a few seats longer. This is only apparent when you are in H block.
We didn't even build the Copthorne with the South Stand 2nd tier in mind - any 2nd tier will be shorter at the Copthorne end than what will then be the SS lower tier. This is quite clear from the original video that came out of this upgrade a number of years ago. Building a hotel without taking into consideration a stadium upgrade is just plain stupid, especially when extra floors could probably have been added on top of the Copthorne at design stage.
The whole upgrade(s) to the stadium at what ever stage since I started watching us when it was a 3 sided ground has been nothing short of pathetic from a design perspective. Admittedly costs along the way may have had some input but at the end of the day there is zero excuse for not designing expansion and connectivity in. If ever a piecemeal development is evident - it's evident at BDTBL.
UTB
I get that but when do you decide the 1st XI is good enough? It gets refreshed twice a year, at some point the 'player' financial pot is going ton have to compete with the 'stadium'and 'training ground' financial pots.In this order.
1st 11.
Training complex.
Ground.
I get that but when do you decide the 1st XI is good enough? It gets refreshed twice a year, at some point the 'player' financial pot is going ton have to compete with the 'stadium'and 'training ground' financial pots.
The first team is a constant work in progress.
I don't think the opportunity has completely gone, but (and it's a huge but), it will be more expensive than the cheap options which we currently have planning permission for. Anything is possible if you've got the money, like Spurs new stadium for example.
I love Bramall Lane but that's mainly down to the memories I have there, it's certainly not a stadium that fans of other clubs are envious of.
indeed, we all love our grounds, but i agree, it is a poor design by 2020 standards. Spurs have set the new benchmark and we could never get anywhere near that, but we should at least try in future and do it better than before. Prem money will obviously help but apart from John Street, the other three sides need serious attention.
In fact , I think there's more likelihood of a new stadium , if the land at the Lane becomes desirable for other purposes.
Because we nigh on sell out every week. If we don't sell out, it's due to restricted view and single tickets only being available or the ability to only give 2,700 tickets to away fans when most clubs at this level could bring double that. We also pretty much sell out every week in spite of the fact that this season the club have made it impossible for new fans
Also, irrespective of the Lane, building a new stadium would cost stupid money we don't have. Sorry to disagree but I think you're wrong here Luke.
We’re in a new era at Bramall Lane, get the small time McCabe mentality out of your head! If you can dream it, Wilder can make it happen!
I’m sorry but the days of standing on a crumbling terrace are over. We should rightly expect a club of our size to provide facilities to match clubs such as Brighton. There are League One clubs with better facilities than us for god sake!
As good as the new spurs ground is, if we tried something like that it would end up more like a slightly bigger Madejski and we'd regret it for eternity
Teams like Leicester and wolves are expanding their grounds. I think Palace and Southampton too. These are the clubs we should be competing with.
Surely any major work on the Lane and a new training ground would be financed by a long term loan/mortgage?
I get that but when do you decide the 1st XI is good enough?
I wasn't suggesting building an out of town bowl, merely adding more capacity at the lane. Despite capping season tickets and only giving away fans 2700 ish seats, there are still plenty of blades fans who cannot get into matches. The club is losing out on potential income and also the next generation of fans in Sheffield. I am not advocating prioritising the ground over the first team, but if we don't expand, then other clubs are likely to overtake us.
Pretty much and with as little disruption as possible.Isn't that the whole point of the bolt on designs? Stadium expansion at relatively little cost and no moving from the lane.
Apologies if I misread your post. Been away for the weekend and trying to skim through to catch up.
Thats just plain old bait.Not in Sunderland.
Isn't the current rail seating plan to keep capacity same as if seated? So little actual benefits in terms of capacity.
Isn't the current rail seating plan to keep capacity same as if seated? So little actual benefits in terms of capacity.
That’s what you can only do at the moment, yes, were we to introduce it tomorrow.
But the end of the all-seater law will open up the potential to look at, for example, 1.5x use. As I said though, I think there are benefits even if there was 0 change on the capacity front.
From a safety perspective, would we be allowed to increase the capacity by 1.5 times with safe standing? For example, do we have enough emergency exits?
At the risk of being the party pooper, how many games have we actually sold out in the past 3 years? Typically that would be the driver for a capacity increase and selling 2 or 3 home games a season isn't going to drive that expenditure.
Conversely, the quickest win would be increasing our capacity for away fans, but the logistics behind that are tough.
We're miles off both at the moment. Another couple dozen executive boxes, a fine dining restaurant and a helipad on top of the Copthorne will be further up the To Do List!!
We've sold out quite a few, even Bournemouth at home this season, which was on Sky.At the risk of being the party pooper, how many games have we actually sold out in the past 3 years? Typically that would be the driver for a capacity increase and selling 2 or 3 home games a season isn't going to drive that expenditure.
Spurs didn't have the money though. They borrowed it and have now had to borrow another £170m through one of the government schemes just to tide them over. No shock they haven't exactly been that active in the transfer market over the last couple of years and look where they have been left in the league. Quite sure their predictions/budgets for a super stadium like that included yearly champions league football.
And yet, never mind what league we are in, it it always comes out near the top of opposing fans favourite away day.
John Street, IMO, is probably the 2nd stand, after the kop, that needs attention the most but the chances of us being able to do anything with are virtually nil unless we bought up all the houses behind it, moved the pitch nearer the SS and knocked it down and started again. Woeful capacity for a premier league stand.
Do people seriously hate the idea of the bolt on designs that much that they would be prepared to move from BDTBL? I'm no land expert but I can't see anywhere within the city centre footprint that would be suitable for a 50k seater stadium and I'm really not sure how much selling the lane would generate. Spurs ground cost circa £1b, Evertons new ground is going to be £500m plus but they are selling everything commercially apart from probably the players underpants. Usmanov has paid £30m just for 1st dibs at the stadium naming rights not the actual rights themselves as no real way to value these until it's finished.
Not meaning to be argumentative just for the sake of it but how many times this season have we had more than 3k away tickets irrespective of stadium size?
See above. Unless something changes we have one of the poorest owners in the league. Rich compared to you and me but in Prem terms not so much.
Possibly one of the most "head in the clouds" comments I've ever read on here. It's all good and well dreaming it, we all do, but the reality of making it happen is a totally different matter and I find the notion that anyone trying to suggest even a modicum of common sense regarding finances has a "small time McCabe" mentality extremely offensive. Easy when it's not your money isn't it???
Now you're just blatantly on a wind up surely? Brighton FFS. Terrible stadium. What next? The Madesjki, The Ricoh, The New York Stadium? If you'd rather move to a soulless bowl just to have slightly better facilities then I'm not sure there's any hope for you!
Correct!
I'll give you Wolves and Palace to an extent but Leicester and Southampton, albeit better than most, are just more examples of terrible bowl stadiums that could be any team in the country. Going down this route would be the absolute last resort for me.
We've just taken one to buy the ground in the 1st instance. Not sure there's a never ending supply of credit available at this time nor would I want us to go down the Spurs route as it's already going tits up for them.
RE: John St. It's only 1,000 seats less than the south stand.
Ideally you buy up the properties behind, close the road off and add a big upper tier above the existing boxes. Another 4k on there and 5k on the South will give us the space to knock down the kop and build a proper stand there instead of the shed we currently have. The 10k capacity of the Kop is the reason we cannot do anything. Too many people miss out. Add 9k elsewhere and then we can build a new one. Even if it's smaller with a better rake, say 8k, we would then have a modern stadium with just under 40k capacity.
I though the reason we cant do anything with the KOP was because its basically built on some kind of landfill / toxic foundations to the cost to remove and dispose of them would be absolutely horrendous.
The Green Guide updated in 2018 made provision for increasing capacity in seating-with-barriers if the anticipated law change goes ahead, subject to several strict provisos. Egress and access would be factors, and obviously we’d need to ensure there are expanded/extra facilities that would be sufficient for any increased number.
I suspect that any increases in capacity would be much lower in the Kop though compared to a more modern construction that has under-stand exits and wider rows. As I’ve mentioned before elsewhere, at 650mm width per row the Kop is already beneath the minimum recommended width on a modern stand. It’s one of the reasons my preference is for a full rebuild. But if we aren’t prepared to do that, my preference is to make the current structure as good as it could be.
I’d need to look into it a bit more, but it might be the case that the Kop corner row depth would make a capacity increase there, while being far more modest, more feasible.
Maybe the people living in John street will tell them to fuck off and stop kicking them out of there homes .... maybeRE: John St. It's only 1,000 seats less than the south stand.
Ideally you buy up the properties behind, close the road off and add a big upper tier above the existing boxes. Another 4k on there and 5k on the South will give us the space to knock down the kop and build a proper stand there instead of the shed we currently have. The 10k capacity of the Kop is the reason we cannot do anything. Too many people miss out. Add 9k elsewhere and then we can build a new one. Even if it's smaller with a better rake, say 8k, we would then have a modern stadium with just under 40k capacity.
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