Stadium expansion

[Berkshire Blade]

These knock it down twist it round and build a super stadium posts are insane. 5k extra capacity with posts taken off kop and a concourse for the kop and more corporate facilities is all we need

 

[YES Blade]

I didn't mention in the earlier posts, but I don't want us to do anything which would take away the the character of the lane being a traditional, English football ground. I appreciate the kop extension doesn't solve the rake in the lower section or the existing leg room, but doing anything about that will reduced capacity and make it unviable. Unless of course safe standing comes in which is looking more and more likely.
The current plans do also include a new covered concourse so I don't see why it is regularly criticised for not doing so.

Surely in 2020 we should be looking to build the best facilities we can? If it’s simply about cramming in as many punters as possible then why not make the extension to match the current Kop rake and leg room? Same with the South Stand second tier, let’s just make that crap leg room as well while we’re at it.

I’m sorry but the days of standing on a crumbling terrace are over. We should rightly expect a club of our size to provide facilities to match clubs such as Brighton. There are League One clubs with better facilities than us for god sake!

 

[YES Blade]

These knock it down twist it round and build a super stadium posts are insane. 5k extra capacity with posts taken off kop and a concourse for the kop and more corporate facilities is all we need

I think you’re lack of ambition is insane.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

I think you’re lack of ambition is insane.

We were getting 30k in. With extra capacity + lack of restricted view seats taking ground up to just under 40k if you think we are going to find more than 10k fans every week I'd suggest you are suffering from that s6 strain of swine flu!

 

[bladesmanluke]

Surely in 2020 we should be looking to build the best facilities we can? If it’s simply about cramming in as many punters as possible then why not make the extension to match the current Kop rake and leg room? Same with the South Stand second tier, let’s just make that crap leg room as well while we’re at it.

I’m sorry but the days of standing on a crumbling terrace are over. We should rightly expect a club of our size to provide facilities to match clubs such as Brighton. There are League One clubs with better facilities than us for god sake!

I'd stop going if we built something like the Amex and I suspect I'm not alone. Awful ground

 

[Berkshire Blade]

I'd stop going if we built something like the Amex and I suspect I'm not alone. Awful ground

A slightly smaller Anfield type build up is far more preferable to a spurs style total rebuild even if it is a fantastic new stadium....it's clearly not the same as the old place.

 

[bladesmanluke]

A slightly smaller Anfield type build up is far more preferable to a spurs style total rebuild even if it is a fantastic new stadium....it's clearly not the same as the old place.

As good as the new spurs ground is, if we tried something like that it would end up more like a slightly bigger Madejski and we'd regret it for eternity

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

I don’t think that’s what he’s saying. I think he’s saying any plans should be built around keeping our current fans able to see the games whilst it happens.

And that’s what I think, in any case.

But I don’t get the anywhere near the same urge as others to develop the ground.

I don't see how it can be done, unless we follow the Spurs example.
We do need a larger ground for sure IMO

 

[Sheffsteel]

The best we can hope for is a cheap, poorly designed extension?

What‘s wrong with the design?
It provides 90% of everything required......it’s a fantastic practical value for money because it not too expensive and had minimal inconvenience to fans.

Fantastic views...no pillars.
Spacious modern concourse areas all under cover and enclosed offering protection from the elements.
New media centre for tv and journalists raising our image amongst the media.
Extra 3,200 seats increasing capacity with increased leg room for those at the back.
Cheaper seat prices.
Good atmosphere....one stand...still a Kop with no corporate areas.

Ive seen several unrealistic alternatives as though someone is playing football manager.
Football owners are business men....so they will want a return on their investment as soon as possible.
We are selling out and need to strike whilst the iron is hot regards expansion but should be picking designs to build on the back of the current stands (like Liverpool).
Closing down a stand...lowering capacity to 20,000 for a year of 2 would be a disaster and make the project even more expensive based on lost revenue.

 

[S64 Blade]

What‘s wrong with the design?
It provides 90% of everything required......it’s a fantastic practical value for money because it not too expensive and had minimal inconvenience to fans

It provides 90% of everything required, today. That same mentality was exactly the reason why the Kop was badly redeveloped in the first place. There's not point doing a bodge job and then need to do more work in 10-20 years time to meet a change in demand and tastes.

If you're going to do something, then do it right, I say.

You could essentially build any new structure around/to the back the existing one, adding the upper sections of the stand first, if you go with a cantilever structure - the load bearing end would be fronting Shoreham Street. Then in pre-season, rip the current stand out and extend the pre-fab blocks of steps downwards over where the old structure was. It'd probably mean that the roof of the existing Kop would need to come off, early doors, but that happened last time as well.

 

[LONDON_BLADE]

It provides 90% of everything required, today. That same mentality was exactly the reason why the Kop was badly redeveloped in the first place. There's not point doing a bodge job and then need to do more work in 10-20 years time to meet a change in demand and tastes.

If you're going to do something, then do it right, I say.

You could essentially build any new structure around/to the back the existing one, adding the upper sections of the stand first, if you go with a cantilever structure - the load bearing end would be fronting Shoreham Street. Then in pre-season, rip the current stand out and extend the pre-fab blocks of steps downwards over where the old structure was. It'd probably mean that the roof of the existing Kop would need to come off, early doors, but that happened last time as well.

Bang on.

 

[Grizzly blade]

These knock it down twist it round and build a super stadium posts are insane. 5k extra capacity with posts taken off kop and a concourse for the kop and more corporate facilities is all we need

It’s a tough one to get right, but thinking small when we are possibly on the rise would be a foolish mistake to make.
what would be a waste of money would be to Have to complete further improvements in less than 10years time.

for me, we could build most of a new Kop while keeping it open for most of the time. As long as it’s built at the right time to maximise fans attending while being built the negative effects can be less intrusive. New stand...12 months to build.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

So we never develop our ground, is that what you want?

 

[Berkshire Blade]

It’s a tough one to get right, but thinking small when we are possibly on the rise would be a foolish mistake to make.
what would be a waste of money would be to Have to complete further improvements in less than 10years time.

for me, we could build most of a new Kop while keeping it open for most of the time. As long as it’s built at the right time to maximise fans attending while being built the negative effects can be less intrusive. New stand...12 months to build.

5k on south stand and a a few thousand more on kop is hardly small. That alone would take us to top ten in league if we could fill it. A significant step up from a number of other 30k type clubs. Then future plans could include the lane end being redone as a kop 2 buy building a tunnel for the road adding even more.

 

[Grizzly blade]

I know what you’re saying, but I personally feel we would sell those extra 7k now no problem. The trick is to lure in new fans and make the most of the Asian And Middle East consumer markets. Granted we won’t be in the Chelsea/Man U/ Arsenal leagues with that, but it all adds up. To do that we need to be the club where fans from all over the world can get tickets. We could easily sell 32k season tickets and need to increase away capacity to maximise on Some of the clubs we Play.
I personally feel 10k more is the minimum we need to plan for medium term, leaving the option for further expansion if we maintain the current rise in the game

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Liverpool's 5k top tier improvements cost £110 million. I think people need some perspective here....

It has the potential to transform the club but don't hold your breath for it right away!

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I know what you’re saying, but I personally feel we would sell those extra 7k now no problem. The trick is to lure in new fans and make the most of the Asian And Middle East consumer markets. Granted we won’t be in the Chelsea/Man U/ Arsenal leagues with that, but it all adds up. To do that we need to be the club where fans from all over the world can get tickets. We could easily sell 32k season tickets and need to increase away capacity to maximise on Some of the clubs we Play.
I personally feel 10k more is the minimum we need to plan for medium term, leaving the option for further expansion if we maintain the current rise in the game

The current plans would be over 5k on the South stand. Include additional boxes, TV suites and conferences facilities while also improving the dressing rooms. It apparently can be done without needing the stand to be closed so no current ST holders would be put out. It could also be started almost immediately while we can’t attend although I suspect that window is closing rapidly.

That would bring us up to around 38,000 and give us time to either replan the Kop which would delay it next season due to planning permission) but could bring in the idea of building it around the existing stand, filling the corner and matching up with the expanded South Stand.
If not, and they want to crack on with the existing plan, they can as the additional capacity plus the likely ban on away fans next year mean we have 8,000 spare seats to rehouse the ST holders from the Kop while it’s completed.
Logically, whichever way you cut it, it seems the South Stand expansion is the way to move forward unless you’re after a rebuild, which isn’t going to happen.
We can quite easily top 50,000 without doing that, so why would be incur the expense especially when we currently don’t have that demand, don’t have that kind of money, and also have nowhere to go while it’s built?

 

[Rochdaleblade]

Teams like Leicester and wolves are expanding their grounds. I think Palace and Southampton too. These are the clubs we should be competing with.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Liverpool's 5k top tier improvements cost £110 million. I think people need some perspective here....

It has the potential to transform the club but don't hold your breath for it right away!

Exactly, although I think a lot of that cost was as they had to purchase property in order to complete it, and build it without reducing the capacity while it was completed.
I don’t think ours is as complex but I’d certainly expect it to cost 50 million plus. But with interest rates low and likely to stay that way for the foreseeable future maybe now is the time to do it in a phased and considered way to grow with the club rather than ahead of it?
5,000 extra sounds a sensible first jump to me.

 

[alcoblade]

Surely in 2020 we should be looking to build the best facilities we can? If it’s simply about cramming in as many punters as possible then why not make the extension to match the current Kop rake and leg room? Same with the South Stand second tier, let’s just make that crap leg room as well while we’re at it.

I’m sorry but the days of standing on a crumbling terrace are over. We should rightly expect a club of our size to provide facilities to match clubs such as Brighton. There are League One clubs with better facilities than us for god sake!

Let’s separate the facilities from the viewing experience. We can improve facilities without altering a thing to the internals if the stands.

Having visited the “super stadiums”, let’s not exaggerate the match day experience that it enhances.

I’d like to get less splash when i have a piss, queue less for (in the end) a crap beer, and have a few alternative pie choices. Sort that, and we’ve covered it.

 

[Rodley]

It provides 90% of everything required, today. That same mentality was exactly the reason why the Kop was badly redeveloped in the first place. There's not point doing a bodge job and then need to do more work in 10-20 years time to meet a change in demand and tastes.

If you're going to do something, then do it right, I say.

You could essentially build any new structure around/to the back the existing one, adding the upper sections of the stand first, if you go with a cantilever structure - the load bearing end would be fronting Shoreham Street. Then in pre-season, rip the current stand out and extend the pre-fab blocks of steps downwards over where the old structure was. It'd probably mean that the roof of the existing Kop would need to come off, early doors, but that happened last time as well.

Just convert it to safe standing, improve the facilities for catering and toilets. Then add the additional tier including extensive corporate facilities onto the South Stand.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Just convert it to safe standing, improve the facilities for catering and toilets. Then add the additional tier including extensive corporate facilities onto the South Stand.

My thoughts exactly. That's the business case. Would love a completely rebuilt single tier kop, but it seems unlikely to me.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

I don’t think that’s what he’s saying. I think he’s saying any plans should be built around keeping our current fans able to see the games whilst it happens.

And that’s what I think, in any case.

But I don’t get the anywhere near the same urge as others to develop the ground.

I would like to see United extend the ground and further develop the facilities. I think sometimes that we are in danger of basing the future on the present or the past and not seeing the potential of taking a completely fresh look at things. I'm sure there's a lot of fans who think that our stadium is plenty big enough for us now without extending it further. Because their estimate of our potential is based on current attendances of around 30,000. I think it's a huge mistake to think like that. The future doesn't have to be like the present or the past.

I've been at Bramall Lane with almost 50,000 in there, back in the 70's. Different times of course, but I don't see why a successful Sheffield United Football Club couldn't attract those kind of crowds - especially if we are competing at the top levels of football.

If you look at what the most progressive clubs are doing you'll see that they are placing a lot of importance on increasing capacity and upgrading facilities. For some it's meant moving grounds altogether, but with all the development space we have around our ground we don't need to do that.

Manchester United were for years the leader in terms of upgrading their facilities. I'm sure some of their fans would have said "it's plenty big enough for us now - no need to do it". But they've continually improved the capacity and facilities and they are looking to do it again - especially now that Old Trafford has fallen behind to clubs like Arsenal and Tottenham in this regard.

If that sort of company, i.e. Manchester United, Arsenal and Tottenham, sounds too illustrious an analogy to make, then how about Newcastle United? In the mid 1990's their capacity was 36,000 - now it's 52,000. And they fill it every game, except when during coronavirus season obviously.

I'm not in the property development business so I don't know a great deal about that. But I am in the business of looking at market trends for businesses and helping them plan for the future - and whilst that's in a totally different industry to football, some principles remain the same. You have to really understand the marketplace that you are operating in and anticipate how that is going to evolve - and plan for that.

The only downside I can see to it is that the game of football is moving away from the model of getting fans to come through the turnstiles and becoming more of a TV product. But we shouldn't let that put us off developing the ground and facilities at this point in time - because by doing so we'd be moving in the direction of most other major players in this market - and we would fill it - I've no doubt - as long as we remain at the top level of football. That's the big unknown factor in this. But you have to plan for success - not failure.

 

[alcoblade]

I would like to see United extend the ground and further develop the facilities. I think sometimes that we are in danger of basing the future on the present or the past and not seeing the potential of taking a completely fresh look at things. I'm sure there's a lot of fans who think that our stadium is plenty big enough for us now without extending it further. Because their estimate of our potential is based on current attendances of around 30,000. I think it's a huge mistake to think like that. The future doesn't have to be like the present or the past.

I've been at Bramall Lane with almost 50,000 in there, back in the 70's. Different times of course, but I don't see why a successful Sheffield United Football Club couldn't attract those kind of crowds - especially if we are competing at the top levels of football.

If you look at what the most progressive clubs are doing you'll see that they are placing a lot of importance on increasing capacity and upgrading facilities. For some it's meant moving grounds altogether, but with all the development space we have around our ground we don't need to do that.

Manchester United were for years the leader in terms of upgrading their facilities. I'm sure some of their fans would have said "it's plenty big enough for us now - no need to do it". But they've continually improved the capacity and facilities and they are looking to do it again - especially now that Old Trafford has fallen behind to clubs like Arsenal and Tottenham in this regard.

If that sort of company, i.e. Manchester United, Arsenal and Tottenham, sounds too illustrious an analogy to make, then how about Newcastle United? In the mid 1990's their capacity was 36,000 - now it's 52,000. And they fill it every game, except when during coronavirus season obviously.

I'm not in the property development business so I don't know a great deal about that. But I am in the business of looking at market trends for businesses and helping them plan for the future - and whilst that's in a totally different industry to football, some principles remain the same. You have to really understand the marketplace that you are operating in and anticipate how that is going to evolve - and plan for that.

The only downside I can see to it is that the game of football is moving away from the model of getting fans to come through the turnstiles and becoming more of a TV product. But we shouldn't let that put us off developing the ground and facilities at this point in time - because by doing so we'd be moving in the direction of most other major players in this market - and we would fill it - I've no doubt - as long as we remain at the top level of football. That's the big unknown factor in this. But you have to plan for success - not failure.

I think you misunderstand me / or I’ve made my point badly.

I think we should expand the ground too, very definitely.

Some people object to a (more or less) extension of what we’ve got on the grounds that it won’t improve the facilities.

For most people, the facilities (outside the corporate arena) are about Improvement to bogs, less crap beer, and less crap food. I’m yet to go anywhere where that isn’t the case.

So, given that, I’m happy for a slightly less than optimal extension (Rather than rebuild) of the current stadium, so that I can guarantee my attendance whilst the developments are made.

Given the relatively meagre improvement to facilities that I’ve witnessed elsewhere, I believe we can achieve that at the same time.

 

[JohnDenver]

Teams like Leicester and wolves are expanding their grounds. I think Palace and Southampton too. These are the clubs we should be competing with.

Ideally yes. But Leicester and Wolves are bankrolled by staggering wealth, so exist in a completely different financial league. And all these clubs have a number of PL years under their belts whilst we've only just arrived. Sadly, one amazing season doesn't magically mean financial parity with this lot.

I don't know what our Saudi's have planned, but I hope it's a balance of ambition and prudence. The key to which remains CW/AK.

 

[Charlieblade]

I hope you had occasion to use them and didn't forget to say "jen queer" afterwards?

I have to agree with you about Eastern European ladies. I've spent quite a bit of time around Eastern Europe and the thing that impressed me about many of them is that they still dress up nice when they go out, (it's fashionable in many of those countries to "glam up", as opposed to scruffy/smart casual in Western Europe) and they aren't too fat.

(No offence to anyone reading this who is a fat lady or is in a relationship with a fat lady. But y'know... a few extra pounds is o.k. and normal, but morbidly obese with body odour and cottage cheese...not my thing really).

Hairy armpits, the further east and south you travel. I won’t be going to Bulgaria again.

 

[Inter_blade83]

I think you misunderstand me / or I’ve made my point badly.

I think we should expand the ground too, very definitely.

Some people object to a (more or less) extension of what we’ve got on the grounds that it won’t improve the facilities.

For most people, the facilities (outside the corporate arena) are about Improvement to bogs, less crap beer, and less crap food. I’m yet to go anywhere where that isn’t the case.

So, given that, I’m happy for a slightly less than optimal extension (Rather than rebuild) of the current stadium, so that I can guarantee my attendance whilst the developments are made.

Given the relatively meagre improvement to facilities that I’ve witnessed elsewhere, I believe we can achieve that at the same time.

The Kop add on would improve facilities as they would finally be under the stand where the current walk way is at the back of stand.

If we can do this now (new roof and additional 3,000 seats) it's a good start with also removing the pillars.

Follow this up with a new tier on the south and we would be up to 40,000.

Considering we haven't allowed many new fans in or catered for the tourism aspects of the PL, we need the seats, and we need them now.

In 2006/07 we had the footie tourists at every game, but our fanbase has grown now to the point where we can't invite others to come to Bramall Lane.

A cheese room would be nice too.

 

[LONDON_BLADE]

I would like to see United extend the ground and further develop the facilities. I think sometimes that we are in danger of basing the future on the present or the past and not seeing the potential of taking a completely fresh look at things. I'm sure there's a lot of fans who think that our stadium is plenty big enough for us now without extending it further. Because their estimate of our potential is based on current attendances of around 30,000. I think it's a huge mistake to think like that. The future doesn't have to be like the present or the past.

I've been at Bramall Lane with almost 50,000 in there, back in the 70's. Different times of course, but I don't see why a successful Sheffield United Football Club couldn't attract those kind of crowds - especially if we are competing at the top levels of football.

If you look at what the most progressive clubs are doing you'll see that they are placing a lot of importance on increasing capacity and upgrading facilities. For some it's meant moving grounds altogether, but with all the development space we have around our ground we don't need to do that.

Manchester United were for years the leader in terms of upgrading their facilities. I'm sure some of their fans would have said "it's plenty big enough for us now - no need to do it". But they've continually improved the capacity and facilities and they are looking to do it again - especially now that Old Trafford has fallen behind to clubs like Arsenal and Tottenham in this regard.

If that sort of company, i.e. Manchester United, Arsenal and Tottenham, sounds too illustrious an analogy to make, then how about Newcastle United? In the mid 1990's their capacity was 36,000 - now it's 52,000. And they fill it every game, except when during coronavirus season obviously.

I'm not in the property development business so I don't know a great deal about that. But I am in the business of looking at market trends for businesses and helping them plan for the future - and whilst that's in a totally different industry to football, some principles remain the same. You have to really understand the marketplace that you are operating in and anticipate how that is going to evolve - and plan for that.

The only downside I can see to it is that the game of football is moving away from the model of getting fans to come through the turnstiles and becoming more of a TV product. But we shouldn't let that put us off developing the ground and facilities at this point in time - because by doing so we'd be moving in the direction of most other major players in this market - and we would fill it - I've no doubt - as long as we remain at the top level of football. That's the big unknown factor in this. But you have to plan for success - not failure.

Great post, and bang on... we need to really change how we think at scale if we are to grow as a club, and not get hamstrung by what has been the previous norm.

 

[LONDON_BLADE]

Ideally yes. But Leicester and Wolves are bankrolled by staggering wealth, so exist in a completely different financial league. And all these clubs have a number of PL years under their belts whilst we've only just arrived. Sadly, one amazing season doesn't magically mean financial parity with this lot.

I don't know what our Saudi's have planned, but I hope it's a balance of ambition and prudence. The key to which remains CW/AK.

Yep, good points, we can't go mad here and get into serious debt... but as I've said previously... plan strategically, build as and when we can afford it... let's go 'Lego' and build it in blocks.

It can be done if planned well.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Hairy armpits, the further east and south you travel. I won’t be going to Bulgaria again.

There is another positive downside to that though!