The Chris Wilder to a 'Big Club' Fallacy

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Stebop

Stebop

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‘Yeah, but can he do it at a big club?’
‘I don’t understand why Arsenal/Spurs/West Ham didn’t give him the job!’

Now we’re the current media darlings, I’ve started to notice these views popping up in some shape or form in a number of pundit and non-Blades supporter reviews of our season.

I think what pisses me off about this the most is it not only belittles our hard-earned status and what we’ve got going on right now, but it also suggests Chris Wilder sees United as a necessary stop on his inevitable career path to manage some bland London club or other who’ve won more trophies.

So to address those points - yes, he can do it at a big club. We are that big club, and we’re growing at a rate of knots cheers! We’ll be a bigger club - financially, in overall fanbase, worldwide status and player calibre - at the end of this season than before we started it. Imagine how big we’ll be given the current trajectory in five years’ time, especially if we do manage to snag a Champions League spot or five. Obviously we’ll never be MASSIVE, but we’ll be pretty big!

Secondly - let’s say those teams did ‘give him the job’, why would he take it? Given everything he’s built here already, the rewards he’s reaping, and barring International ambitions, isn’t he already in his dream job?

He's a childhood Blades fan, loves the city, surrounded by his friends and family, likes nipping down his local for a pint or five whenever we're not playing on a Saturday, has an established bus route for getting his haircut in Town, he's now a millionaire by all accounts, and he'll comfortably be a multi-millionaire by the time he retires. The ownership dispute is over and Prince is investing in players who've played Champions League football. We're currently pushing for Champions League football with a squad who've barely played above Championship level. What are we gonna be pushing for by the end of next season?

Why would he go to Arsenal, Spurs, Man Utd even? What's the point? He doesn't need the money, he's building a legacy at the Lane, he has a chance to BURY Wednesday and their share of the available Sheffield fanbase for generations. We've got a cracking stadium already which can be expanded upon, and while the training facilities already seem good bar location, we’re apparently looking to develop those.

I guess I can see why some people who don’t ‘get us’ may think he'll have his head turned by one of their hallowed teams coming in for him, but think about this for a moment - would you? You're presented with a chance to continue the successful legacy of a club you don't support and have no connection to, versus the chance to write a historic new chapter at a club you've loved since you were a kid, and potentially leave a legacy beyond anything that’s gone before. You're literally standing at the precipice of this and decide to jack it in and start again somewhere else?

Regardless of how it works out for Sander Berge, signing him stuck a huge F-off marker in the ground to show where Wilder and the board see us being NOW and going forward. Plenty of pundits and other team’s supporters have again misread the signing as some strange anomaly. I think Sander and his people can just read the direction of travel far better than any of them.

Call me a soppy sod, but I’m struggling to spot another team in England right now who can match what’s happening at the Lane - be it authenticity, player commitment and character, connection with the fans, sporting values, feelgood factor, or sheer potential - and I reckon Wilder might be a soppy sod too!

Anyway, nice to get that off my chest - next rant will be the ‘they’ll struggle next season’ fallacy!
 

Well said Stebop. Let's hope CWAK see it the same way. I have a feeling they are not leaving anytime in the near future.
 
Wilder got to clear out alot of crap who where at the end of their contracts with us,then he could build with his own players.Thats not easy at a failing so called big club,I think he's the best out there but would he get the time to turn a big club round,his straight talking would certainly upset a few snowflake superstars.
Best staying here.
 
I do think there are some career challenges out there for him though, which he hasn't had at United....

1. Spend a massive amount of money on a player(s) where you MUST make that investment work.
2. Handle the personalities of individuals and even a full dressing room of young men who are mega wealthy.
3. Deal with the internal and external pressure of being the manager of a team that has an expectancy to finish top-4 every year and go on sustained cup runs. Where not doing that is seen as failure. And deal with that pressure every single day.

He's done all of the above but on a much lesser level. That might be why he'd be seen as a risk for a club that ticks all those above boxes.
 
Stebop said:
‘Yeah, but can he do it at a big club?’
‘I don’t understand why Arsenal/Spurs/West Ham didn’t give him the job!’

Now we’re the current media darlings, I’ve started to notice these views popping up in some shape or form in a number of pundit and non-Blades supporter reviews of our season.

I think what pisses me off about this the most is it not only belittles our hard-earned status and what we’ve got going on right now, but it also suggests Chris Wilder sees United as a necessary stop on his inevitable career path to manage some bland London club or other who’ve won more trophies.

So to address those points - yes, he can do it at a big club. We are that big club, and we’re growing at a rate of knots cheers! We’ll be a bigger club - financially, in overall fanbase, worldwide status and player calibre - at the end of this season than before we started it. Imagine how big we’ll be given the current trajectory in five years’ time, especially if we do manage to snag a Champions League spot or five. Obviously we’ll never be MASSIVE, but we’ll be pretty big!

Secondly - let’s say those teams did ‘give him the job’, why would he take it? Given everything he’s built here already, the rewards he’s reaping, and barring International ambitions, isn’t he already in his dream job?

He's a childhood Blades fan, loves the city, surrounded by his friends and family, likes nipping down his local for a pint or five whenever we're not playing on a Saturday, has an established bus route for getting his haircut in Town, he's now a millionaire by all accounts, and he'll comfortably be a multi-millionaire by the time he retires. The ownership dispute is over and Prince is investing in players who've played Champions League football. We're currently pushing for Champions League football with a squad who've barely played above Championship level. What are we gonna be pushing for by the end of next season?

Why would he go to Arsenal, Spurs, Man Utd even? What's the point? He doesn't need the money, he's building a legacy at the Lane, he has a chance to BURY Wednesday and their share of the available Sheffield fanbase for generations. We've got a cracking stadium already which can be expanded upon, and while the training facilities already seem good bar location, we’re apparently looking to develop those.

I guess I can see why some people who don’t ‘get us’ may think he'll have his head turned by one of their hallowed teams coming in for him, but think about this for a moment - would you? You're presented with a chance to continue the successful legacy of a club you don't support and have no connection to, versus the chance to write a historic new chapter at a club you've loved since you were a kid, and potentially leave a legacy beyond anything that’s gone before. You're literally standing at the precipice of this and decide to jack it in and start again somewhere else?

Regardless of how it works out for Sander Berge, signing him stuck a huge F-off marker in the ground to show where Wilder and the board see us being NOW and going forward. Plenty of pundits and other team’s supporters have again misread the signing as some strange anomaly. I think Sander and his people can just read the direction of travel far better than any of them.

Call me a soppy sod, but I’m struggling to spot another team in England right now who can match what’s happening at the Lane - be it authenticity, player commitment and character, connection with the fans, sporting values, feelgood factor, or sheer potential - and I reckon Wilder might be a soppy sod too!

Anyway, nice to get that off my chest - next rant will be the ‘they’ll struggle next season’ fallacy!
Click to expand...
Nailed it.

Edinblade said:
Wilders ambition is to leave a legacy at Bramall Lane. I don’t think he’ll ever see his job here as complete until he retires all together.
Click to expand...

Wilder will only leave the lane if the club doesn't move with his ambition.

His post JTW comments have been amazing to hear. I think the club have actually surpassed his expectations so far.

The Prince clearly sees how good Wilder is so he's backing him with the money within the club. I think Wilder will be setting a Fergie type legacy at the lane and to be honest, now is the perfect time to do it.

Leicester set a precedent, Wolves showed what a promoted side can do and perhaps we can take it a step further than Wolves and get 4th
 
Well, at the moment there are only four clubs better than us in the whole country so it would take something very special to tempt him to leave.
 
Stebop said:
‘Yeah, but can he do it at a big club?’
‘I don’t understand why Arsenal/Spurs/West Ham didn’t give him the job!’

Now we’re the current media darlings, I’ve started to notice these views popping up in some shape or form in a number of pundit and non-Blades supporter reviews of our season.

I think what pisses me off about this the most is it not only belittles our hard-earned status and what we’ve got going on right now, but it also suggests Chris Wilder sees United as a necessary stop on his inevitable career path to manage some bland London club or other who’ve won more trophies.

So to address those points - yes, he can do it at a big club. We are that big club, and we’re growing at a rate of knots cheers! We’ll be a bigger club - financially, in overall fanbase, worldwide status and player calibre - at the end of this season than before we started it. Imagine how big we’ll be given the current trajectory in five years’ time, especially if we do manage to snag a Champions League spot or five. Obviously we’ll never be MASSIVE, but we’ll be pretty big!

Secondly - let’s say those teams did ‘give him the job’, why would he take it? Given everything he’s built here already, the rewards he’s reaping, and barring International ambitions, isn’t he already in his dream job?

He's a childhood Blades fan, loves the city, surrounded by his friends and family, likes nipping down his local for a pint or five whenever we're not playing on a Saturday, has an established bus route for getting his haircut in Town, he's now a millionaire by all accounts, and he'll comfortably be a multi-millionaire by the time he retires. The ownership dispute is over and Prince is investing in players who've played Champions League football. We're currently pushing for Champions League football with a squad who've barely played above Championship level. What are we gonna be pushing for by the end of next season?

Why would he go to Arsenal, Spurs, Man Utd even? What's the point? He doesn't need the money, he's building a legacy at the Lane, he has a chance to BURY Wednesday and their share of the available Sheffield fanbase for generations. We've got a cracking stadium already which can be expanded upon, and while the training facilities already seem good bar location, we’re apparently looking to develop those.

I guess I can see why some people who don’t ‘get us’ may think he'll have his head turned by one of their hallowed teams coming in for him, but think about this for a moment - would you? You're presented with a chance to continue the successful legacy of a club you don't support and have no connection to, versus the chance to write a historic new chapter at a club you've loved since you were a kid, and potentially leave a legacy beyond anything that’s gone before. You're literally standing at the precipice of this and decide to jack it in and start again somewhere else?

Regardless of how it works out for Sander Berge, signing him stuck a huge F-off marker in the ground to show where Wilder and the board see us being NOW and going forward. Plenty of pundits and other team’s supporters have again misread the signing as some strange anomaly. I think Sander and his people can just read the direction of travel far better than any of them.

Call me a soppy sod, but I’m struggling to spot another team in England right now who can match what’s happening at the Lane - be it authenticity, player commitment and character, connection with the fans, sporting values, feelgood factor, or sheer potential - and I reckon Wilder might be a soppy sod too!

Anyway, nice to get that off my chest - next rant will be the ‘they’ll struggle next season’ fallacy!
Click to expand...

Good post another point I think you were making is that ManUre and their ilk keep turning over managers in the hope that they get another Ferguson and then don't give them the time that Ferguson had to develop. They just keep buying expensive players to short cut to the championships. Chris Wilder has been able to build from ground zero with us. We were in such a shit state that he was able to do a clear out, establish a culture, a way of playing and a togetherness throughout the club. He has then moved the club along evolutionary step by step. Your point about growth is well made but if he went to another "Massive" club he wouldn't have the levers and time available to him to be able to do the job as he would want it. With us he is the king and what he says goes if he wants to change something, it's changed. The same control would not be available at the top 6. At the player of the year do a couple of years ago he said "dilly dilly" and all the players said it back, complete control.
 
Two things

No one has considered the implications of Southgate having a bad Euros. If Bournemouth go down, that’s going to make it hard for the FA to go for Howe. That leaves Fatty Bruce, Dyche, Smith and Wilder in the running. If you were a neutral, which would you choose? If you were CW how seriously would you take the opportunity to manage your country?

Secondly, CW will remember when Bassett turned down the chance to manage Villa, when they were a decent club. He never got such an opportunity again.
 
wilder said a couple of years ago , he wasnt interested in England, or even watching em. I dont think he is really that bothered about the England job
 
BushBlade said:
Two things

No one has considered the implications of Southgate having a bad Euros. If Bournemouth go down, that’s going to make it hard for the FA to go for Howe. That leaves Fatty Bruce, Dyche, Smith and Wilder in the running. If you were a neutral, which would you choose? If you were CW how seriously would you take the opportunity to manage your country?

Secondly, CW will remember when Bassett turned down the chance to manage Villa, when they were a decent club. He never got such an opportunity again.
Click to expand...

The FA will give it Phil Neville if England have a bad Euros.

A good Euros then Southgate will stay on for at least the next World Cup and then followed by Lampard.
 
Harry's Game said:
The FA will give it Phil Neville if England have a bad Euros.

A good Euros then Southgate will stay on for at least the next World Cup and then followed by Lampard.
Click to expand...
I forgot about Neville. I could see him as a kind of stopgap while they’re waiting for Lamps or Stevie G to prove they know their arse from their elbow.
 
BushBlade said:
Two things

No one has considered the implications of Southgate having a bad Euros. If Bournemouth go down, that’s going to make it hard for the FA to go for Howe. That leaves Fatty Bruce, Dyche, Smith and Wilder in the running. If you were a neutral, which would you choose? If you were CW how seriously would you take the opportunity to manage your country?

Secondly, CW will remember when Bassett turned down the chance to manage Villa, when they were a decent club. He never got such an opportunity again.
Click to expand...

Southgate will have a bad Euros he hasn't got Kane, he will stick with Pickford and he hasn't sorted out the defence. But Southgate is an FA committee's wet dream he says yes to everything doesn't cause any adverse news and will therefore be there until at least the World Cup as he already has his excuses ready.

Chris Wilder has more heart towards us than Bassett much as I loved the Bassett era. Secondly on that front it's highly unlikely that any of the top 6 would take a punt on him and that leaves the likes of Everton West Ham or Newcastle. All three of them have deluded fans that think they are huge clubs and the fans would therefore demand foreign managers (look at the Geordies when Bruce was appointed). So I can't see it for the next couple of seasons. If our trajectory continues and we become an established top 8 team with the odd euro appearance then we may have an issue. Until then I think he will gladly stay and long may hopefully that be the case.
 
Prince needs to take a leaf out of Chris's book. Maybe give Knilly the reigns for a match if we only get a draw, when we are pushing for 4th. Don't let Chrissy too cocky 🤪
 

Harry's Game said:
Wilders ambition is to be the Bill Shankley of SUFC.

He will be here another 10 years at least.
Click to expand...

Agree - I am of the age and understood the Shankley era and the legacy he left to Liverpool with the "boot room" lot.

CW can have numerous years building this club and leave his own legacy - done on the back of SKY "gifting" proactive football clubs with oodles of cash.

If only we could beg, steal or borrow 4 FA Cup victories..........his legacy may start a bit earlier.

UTB
 
Harry's Game said:
The FA will give it Phil Neville if England have a bad Euros.

A good Euros then Southgate will stay on for at least the next World Cup and then followed by Lampard.
Click to expand...

Good point. If Lampard has a good couple of years then he ticks all the FAs boxes. CW has too much of Brian Clough about him for the FA to go for him.

Good post and I agree. As long as HRH backs him and gives him what he (reasonably) asks for then there is no reason for him to leave.
 
preparing to be ridiculed I honestly think that if Man City win the CL this season, Pep will leave and take over the England job, to try to become a world cup winning manager. And I'd be well up for that!
 
Harry's Game said:
The FA will give it Phil Neville if England have a bad Euros.

A good Euros then Southgate will stay on for at least the next World Cup and then followed by Lampard.
Click to expand...

Christ, I'd never thought about this, but it feels depressingly likely.
 
With what he has done for us, no problems if he takes a life changing money offer at such a peak.
But the Prince must be gaining huge respect at home and so the funding for champions league shouldn't be an issue.
 
I can't see CWAK leaving at all if the Prince and the club match his ambitions as already mentioned.

I honestly can't see CWAK or the club settling for mid table mediocrity in the Prem either o_O

I can also see a few of the regulars being replaced with upgrades over the next couple of transfer windows. I fully expect us to sign a proven goalscorer for this level this coming summer. The management will not hang about and will want to improve from one transfer window to the next.

Exciting times to be a Blade
 
Wilders name will come up when OGS runs out of road. Ferguson is a BIG fan
 
I just wonder where the ceiling is for what we can achieve vs how far Wilder could get in management.

The rate of progress makes it almost seem daft to put limits on our ambitions. I'd say a cup win is a realistic ambition in the next 5 years or so given current evidence, a 4th place finish in the short or medium term isn't particularly fanciful either. but beyond that where would CW draw the line?

He isn't gonna move sideways but as much as he loves SUFC he isn't one for standing still.....if Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool or Man City were to come calling at some stage or even a big name from Italy or Spain and with it a realistic chance of League/Champions League success is he going to pass that up bearing in mind every manger has a shelf life?

I don't think the England job would interest him or any ambitious Premier League manager at the moment. Maybe when hes seen and done it all he'd give it a go but aside from the perception of International football as the poor relation he wouldn't be happy not being hands on every day.
 

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