Wilders "back up" signings

[Ricky]

I didn't even notice Bryan on the pitch. I'm sure he will have been told to do the bare minimum and never get forward, to minimise our chances of accidental victory.

Osborn made himself look fucking shite as well. Must have been difficult for him, even if he was told performance doesn't matter one bit.

Most will be able to contribute when placed among the first choice line up.

But Besic and Ravel are worries. They don't look up to it at all. Besic used to get about the pitch better than he does now.

We already know K.Freeman isn't up to it and that Jags is past it.

We need to address the positions in January which we didn't adequately strengthen in the summer - that right side. RCB, RWB, RCM.

 

[JayGreen17]

We play a unique system as we all know, a system that requires each man to pull together and do their own job. You have Egan who stays back slotting into JOCs position when he goes on the attack, you have Basham who takes Egans position whilst he's covering JOCs and then you have Baldock that takes Bashams spot if we're being countered the team kind of pivots right/left dependant of the wing we attack. Its a wonderful system and its worked for 3 seasons now, but in the cup games against both Blackburn/Sunderland (You could argue Barnet last season too) we weren't able to replicate the system we're so used to seeing because of our fringe/backup players, for example..

Stearman isn't as good as Egan and I wouldn't trust him to be the "wall" - He was a liability v Sunderland and more often than not looked for a backwards pass
Jagielka isn't as good as Basham, his legs have gone
Bryan isn't a center back (imo)
Osborn is nowhere near the level of player that Stevens is
K Freeman isn't and never will be as good as Baldock attacking or defending

So now this brings me onto the main subject of this thread.

We would be royally fucked if JOC/Basham/Stevens/Baldock/Egan got injured because our backup aren't good enough to do the roles these guys play. If a combination of these got injured I worry.

The back is a major worry and the Jan transfer window cant come soon enough, we’d be really screwed if we had to rely on that lot...makes the decision to let Cranie go even more baffling.

 

[Akinbiyi]

I cannot think of any member on here who was not happy with the summer incoming signings.I actually pointed to the obvious weakest areas for cover and there they are there still.

Some will work, some won't, and forever will be the case.

So obviously you weren't entirely happy then?
Well done on pointing out the obvious weak areas in terms of depth.

 

[Akinbiyi]

I didn't even notice Bryan on the pitch. I'm sure he will have been told to do the bare minimum and never get forward, to minimise our chances of accidental victory.

Osborn made himself look fucking shite as well. Must have been difficult for him, even if he was told performance doesn't matter one bit.

Most will be able to contribute when placed among the first choice line up.

But Besic and Ravel are worries. They don't look up to it at all. Besic used to get about the pitch better than he does now.

We already know K.Freeman isn't up to it and that Jags is past it.

We need to address the positions in January which we didn't adequately strengthen in the summer - that right side. RCB, RWB, RCM.

Besic was a last minute panic signing

 

[Akinbiyi]

Seem to recall posts like this after the Barnet game regarding Stearnan who stepped up quite adequately when injuries n suspensions kicked in the run in
last night showed again how important the defence is to for our system to work

Oh whatever could've changed from last season to this, hmmm, I wonder...

 

[FinchleyBlade]

Yep, big mistake on our part spunking all that money on strikers and not getting back up for the defense.

 

[Kanye]

We play a unique system as we all know, a system that requires each man to pull together and do their own job. You have Egan who stays back slotting into JOCs position when he goes on the attack, you have Basham who takes Egans position whilst he's covering JOCs and then you have Baldock that takes Bashams spot if we're being countered the team kind of pivots right/left dependant of the wing we attack. Its a wonderful system and its worked for 3 seasons now, but in the cup games against both Blackburn/Sunderland (You could argue Barnet last season too) we weren't able to replicate the system we're so used to seeing because of our fringe/backup players, for example..

Stearman isn't as good as Egan and I wouldn't trust him to be the "wall" - He was a liability v Sunderland and more often than not looked for a backwards pass
Jagielka isn't as good as Basham, his legs have gone
Bryan isn't a center back (imo)
Osborn is nowhere near the level of player that Stevens is
K Freeman isn't and never will be as good as Baldock attacking or defending

So now this brings me onto the main subject of this thread.

We would be royally fucked if JOC/Basham/Stevens/Baldock/Egan got injured because our backup aren't good enough to do the roles these guys play. If a combination of these got injured I worry.

I said at the start we needed another CB as cover. I shudder to imagine Bryan playing in the prem.

Osborn, I think is ok cover. Jags is great to come on like he did vs Everton but not to start Gotta sign a CB and RB in Jan though.

CB, I'd personally go for Calum Chambers. Failing that, raid Middlesborough for Dael Fry.

As a stop gap, I'd get Danny Simpson who is without a club. He's a tosser, and not great ... in fact, not even good... but is better than Freeman and does have prem experience. He could provide that touch of cover until Jan, just in case.

Lots of people pointed out we were still weak in a lot of areas. Doesn't take a genius to see it, particularly at RWB.

Personally I had no doubts about Baldock but Freeman has been cack for a while, and we've previously had to resort to playing Bash there due to injuries to both.

It's just that going into the Prem with Lavery, Clarke and Evans as half our strike force would have been suicidal, so you have to prioritise.

There is only so far the budget can go. If you want signings of potential PL quality to improve the first team, like Mousset, Freeman, McBurnie etc., you have to accept that you will have less money to spend on backup players. That's just the reality of being a newly promoted team.

It certainly looks to me that Morrison and Besic might as well not be at the club. .

I didn't even notice Bryan on the pitch. I'm sure he will have been told to do the bare minimum and never get forward, to minimise our chances of accidental victory.

Osborn made himself look fucking shite as well. Must have been difficult for him, even if he was told performance doesn't matter one bit.

Most will be able to contribute when placed among the first choice line up.

But Besic and Ravel are worries. They don't look up to it at all. Besic used to get about the pitch better than he does now.

We already know K.Freeman isn't up to it and that Jags is past it.

We need to address the positions in January which we didn't adequately strengthen in the summer - that right side. RCB, RWB, RCM.

Knee-jerking bollocks.

 

[Ricky]

Besic was a last minute panic signing

1. Chambers
2. Hendrick
3. Ndiaye
4. Amartey
5. Besic

 

[Carlton Blade]

Last night has no bearing on the League. What result/performance would people have needed to see from Moore, Bryan, Jags, Stearman, Freeman K, Besic, Morrison and Osborn to get them anywhere near a starting league team????

But there's still been a knee jerk reaction as if all last nights team have to contribute at the same time.

If we get 35 games from Henderson, Egan, JOC, Stevens and Norwood we'll be ok. We couldn't afford to get cover in that's anywhere near as good as them. But we really could have done with a real loan rather than Besic

 

[finlaytheblade]

Besic was a last minute panic signing

Cant judge individuals on last night's debacle we got beat by Barnet last season but the ones who played in the 1st team didnt let us down.We are up a division and the shadow squad has been upgraded but playing together as a team seems beyond them at the moment.
It is what it is we move on and I think the ones who do make the 1st team will do ok,a few have done so already.

 

[BLADES1988]

Another bloody Happy Clapper!

What you on about?

 

[GrayBlade]

[

We play a unique system as we all know, a system that requires each man to pull together and do their own job. You have Egan who stays back slotting into JOCs position when he goes on the attack, you have Basham who takes Egans position whilst he's covering JOCs and then you have Baldock that takes Bashams spot if we're being countered the team kind of pivots right/left dependant of the wing we attack. Its a wonderful system and its worked for 3 seasons now, but in the cup games against both Blackburn/Sunderland (You could argue Barnet last season too) we weren't able to replicate the system we're so used to seeing because of our fringe/backup players, for example..

Stearman isn't as good as Egan and I wouldn't trust him to be the "wall" - He was a liability v Sunderland and more often than not looked for a backwards pass
Jagielka isn't as good as Basham, his legs have gone
Bryan isn't a center back (imo)
Osborn is nowhere near the level of player that Stevens is
K Freeman isn't and never will be as good as Baldock attacking or defending

So now this brings me onto the main subject of this thread.

We would be royally fucked if JOC/Basham/Stevens/Baldock/Egan got injured because our backup aren't good enough to do the roles these guys play. If a combination of these got injured I worry.

Oh that everything was as simplistic as in your world. Second string players are usually second string because they’re not as good as the first team and but for a few clubs that can afford to pay multimillion pound players to sit on their arsesj, that’s the way it is even in the Premier League. West Ham’s second string lost 4-0 to Oxford and Bournemouth’s 3-0 to Burton Albion last night, it happens all the time but you can bet you bet your bottom dollar that if some of their players are given a chance they’ll take it, and so will ours.

Playing in a half empty Lane in a team that’s only played together in anger twice is a world away from stepping up the the mark and filling in for a first team regular. A player can come in out if the blue and have a stormer like Stearman did last season, and what about Jags performance at Everton?

I do think personally that 2 or 3 of our squad players won‘t ever be up to it and we’ll need to address that in January, but in the meantime like at other similar clubs, players will come in and step up to the mark even if Wilder has to tweak things slightly to accommodate them. That’s the way it is, that’s the way it has to be right now. No need to overreact.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

I agree with much that has been said, but for me there is still one puzzle. Last night was basically the second-string, beginning with the same formation as the first team, giving these players a chance to play a competitive game. And certainly several of the failures against Barnet last season did quite well when they were needed in the promotion push. We also knows that Wilder demands intensity in matches and training - those who watched the training session in Portugal pre-season commented on the level of commitment, and in the friendly there, the players defended as if it was a vital league game. So why do the players picked for Cup games show such little intensity? If they do it in training, they surely can do it in front of an empty Kop? I really don't understand. Just to be clear, I am not criticising the overall outcome - I said after the Barnet game that I would judge that result at the end of the season, and that turned out well.

 

[metalblade]

I really dont think my earlier comments were an over reaction or a load of bollocks. Mousette Robinson had no service so I am not criticising them, L Freemam and Osborn haven't done bad when called upon and Jags will only ever come on as a sub but my God the rest of them are showing nothing at all. There is a very good reason why they don't start games and most weekends don't even get a seat on the bench.
If anyone can tell me what the rest (I am not going to name individuals) offer at Premier League level then I'm all ears, and Duffy thought this lot would keep him out of the team the mind boggles.

 

[metalblade]

Just a thought for those making the 10 changes excuse Sunderland apparently made 8 changes.

 

[Caseh]

Just a thought for those making the 10 changes excuse Sunderland apparently made 8 changes.

Difference is we play an intricate system which only works with our defence doing certain things that is completely different to the norm. If that isn't working smoothly, the rest of the play is going to falter badly. It's no surprise we look garbage every time we make loads of changes for the cup.

 

[metalblade]

Difference is we play an intricate system which only works with our defence doing certain things that is completely different to the norm. If that isn't working smoothly, the rest of the play is going to falter badly. It's no surprise we look garbage every time we make loads of changes for the cup.

Ah forgive me I really thought these players trained alongside the first 11, silly me.

 

[Woodwardfan]

So obviously you weren't entirely happy then?
Well done on pointing out the obvious weak areas in terms of depth.

See my post 8 Akinbiyi for context.

 

[alcoblade]

We play a unique system as we all know, a system that requires each man to pull together and do their own job. You have Egan who stays back slotting into JOCs position when he goes on the attack, you have Basham who takes Egans position whilst he's covering JOCs and then you have Baldock that takes Bashams spot if we're being countered the team kind of pivots right/left dependant of the wing we attack. Its a wonderful system and its worked for 3 seasons now, but in the cup games against both Blackburn/Sunderland (You could argue Barnet last season too) we weren't able to replicate the system we're so used to seeing because of our fringe/backup players, for example..

Stearman isn't as good as Egan and I wouldn't trust him to be the "wall" - He was a liability v Sunderland and more often than not looked for a backwards pass
Jagielka isn't as good as Basham, his legs have gone
Bryan isn't a center back (imo)
Osborn is nowhere near the level of player that Stevens is
K Freeman isn't and never will be as good as Baldock attacking or defending

So now this brings me onto the main subject of this thread.

We would be royally fucked if JOC/Basham/Stevens/Baldock/Egan got injured because our backup aren't good enough to do the roles these guys play. If a combination of these got injured I worry.

I think all those players are better than they demonstrated last night. Playing with a full team of changes doesn’t teach you very much.

If any of the first team had been included last night, we’d have concluded they were shit. Have we given up on Mouset based on last night?

 

[Woodwardfan]

Lots of people pointed out we were still weak in a lot of areas. Doesn't take a genius to see it, particularly at RWB.

Personally I had no doubts about Baldock but Freeman has been cack for a while, and we've previously had to resort to playing Bash there due to injuries to both.

It's just that going into the Prem with Lavery, Clarke and Evans as half our strike force would have been suicidal, so you have to prioritise.

Not sure about 'lots of people' but my post 8 above agrees with your point.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

I didn't even notice Bryan on the pitch. I'm sure he will have been told to do the bare minimum and never get forward, to minimise our chances of accidental victory.

Osborn made himself look fucking shite as well. Must have been difficult for him, even if he was told performance doesn't matter one bit.

Most will be able to contribute when placed among the first choice line up.

But Besic and Ravel are worries. They don't look up to it at all. Besic used to get about the pitch better than he does now.

We already know K.Freeman isn't up to it and that Jags is past it.

We need to address the positions in January which we didn't adequately strengthen in the summer - that right side. RCB, RWB, RCM.

Darragh Lenihan is now playing in a new look back 3 for Blackburn. Suggest he might be one we look at more seriously in the summer.

Jeff Hendrick already mention as a possible target.

RWB is the one that I dotn really have any solid suggestions. Matt Lowton seems to be getting a regular start now at Burnley. Holgate? Jury is out at Premier League level.

 

[Ricky]

Darragh Lenihan is now playing in a new look back 3 for Blackburn. Suggest he might be one we look at more seriously in the summer.

Jeff Hendrick already mention as a possible target.

RWB is the one that I dotn really have any solid suggestions. Matt Lowton seems to be getting a regular start now at Burnley. Holgate? Jury is out at Premier League level.

Holgate and Hendrick are the very obvious ones and that for me would make a great January. Might only cost £10m for both.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Darragh Lenihan is now playing in a new look back 3 for Blackburn. Suggest he might be one we look at more seriously in the summer.

Jeff Hendrick already mention as a possible target.

RWB is the one that I dotn really have any solid suggestions. Matt Lowton seems to be getting a regular start now at Burnley. Holgate? Jury is out at Premier League level.

How about Lenihan in the next window we need cover in there and he would put pressure on ,right age as well.
Wilder went in for him last year but he got injured whether that stopped the deal I don't know.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Holgate and Hendrick are the very obvious ones and that for me would make a great January. Might only cost £10m for both.

The fact that Holgate isn't out on loan and isn't getting game time for Everton will be in our favour when negotiating a price.

 

[Ricky]

The fact that Holgate isn't out on loan and isn't getting game time for Everton will be in our favour when negotiating a price.

Everton see Holgate as more of a CB, but he should be starting at RB for them. Or at least Coleman shouldn't be, he's finished. We might need Silva to stay there to be able to get him. At RCB for us he'd look a much better player than he ever has before. And we'd also have proper cover at RWB. We've been interested previously so I have some hopes on this one.

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

Not for the first time , I read on here that when the back up squad play crap both collectively and individually it's largely due to the system we play and the difficulty which players have adapting to it .

Putting aside the fact that this must be the system which is mainly used in training , how come then that Martin Crainie took about 10 mins. to get used to it and went on to barely put a foot wrong every time he was called upon ?

Of all the players we have released in recent years , his is the one that puzzles me most and I don't fall for the line that he insisted on a regular place or else .

We could do a lot worse than eat a large slice of humble pie and go and get him back in the JTW .

 

[Woodwardfan]

Not for the first time , I read on here that when the back up squad play crap both collectively and individually it's largely due to the system we play and the difficulty which players have adapting to it .

Putting aside the fact that this must be the system which is mainly used in training , how come then that Martin Crainie took about 10 mins. to get used to it and went on to barely put a foot wrong every time he was called upon ?

Of all the players we have released in recent years , his is the one that puzzles me most and I don't fall for the line that he insisted on a regular place or else .

We could do a lot worse than eat a large slice of humble pie and go and get him back in the JTW .

As Wilder said, a number of Wednesday's team could play first team and do well. Different fitting into an established team than playing in a totally changed team. Very true.

 

[Welshblade]

If Egan gets crocked we bring in Jags at CB. Not Stearman. Not ever. Please.
If JOC gets crocked we shift Stevens inside and put Osborn LWB. Not ideal as it’s a big reshuffle but I rate Osborn personally.
If Basham gets crocked then I’m not sure. Assume it would be Jags but I don’t like that. He should be CB or nowt.

The lack of depth at CB is a worry I agree.

Didn't Besic play RB before? Meybe he would replace Bash.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Last night has no bearing on the League. What result/performance would people have needed to see from Moore, Bryan, Jags, Stearman, Freeman K, Besic, Morrison and Osborn to get them anywhere near a starting league team????

But there's still been a knee jerk reaction as if all last nights team have to contribute at the same time.

If we get 35 games from Henderson, Egan, JOC, Stevens and Norwood we'll be ok. We couldn't afford to get cover in that's anywhere near as good as them. But we really could have done with a real loan rather than Besic

I would’ve liked to have seen some level of partnership play between CR & Moose, possibly scoring a goal each. Both being a constant threat to a beleaguered Sunderland defence with their running, pace & physicality. They are currently one of the options we have as starters up front and i’d hoped to see them gel and look like they could function together.

I would’ve also liked to have seen Ravel take control of the game in midfield and dictate play, possible also score a goal. Be a metronome & demanding all play comes through him from the back line, showcasing his range of passing.

I would’ve liked to have seen LF be a constant inventive/creative thorn in Sunderland’s side. Buzzing about like a pest, demanding the ball. Trying things. Trying to be cute in tight areas.

I’d hoped to see Besic show himself to be a mobile, combative CM, showing why he can challenge JL for that role, showing his international pedigree.

I’d hoped to see McB show a glimpse of why we’ve spent £20m on him.

I’d hoped to see KB, showtime slightest reason why we pay him every month.

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

As Wilder said, a number of Wednesday's team could play first team and do well. Different fitting into an established team than playing in a totally changed team. Very true.

Some truth in that , but I can't see Cranie playing as poorly as most of them did on Wednesday and in at least 5 different positions .