Wilder annoyed at transfer-listed players who won’t leave

[LoughboroBlade]

Which could be true. It’s one of those intangibles that bean counters can’t quantify so they ignore.

I mean it’s completely unprovable.

“Dean Hammond might have had a horrendous influence on the field, but my word he was great off the pitch in getting Paul Coutts motivated for when Wilder took over.”

 

[William]

Ok, how about I throw in an extra 10k to sweeten it? You see where we're going, there has to be some common ground where both parties if not totally happy can at least say they got something out of it.

You would think so, but it's obviously not been found at the moment. I imagine this will all happen late in the window. I imagine there is a stand off where the buying club will make out they have no money and we'll want them to pay more money. If Wilder wants to see them gone then it will all happen late and it's a buyers market.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Two way street. Some of these lads have played their part but the club has moved on too quickly for them all.

Agree contracts are two-way streets. As a club we should show our appreciation of them as contributors to our success by negotiating a generous package with another club and the individuals so that all three parties benefit.

I'm told Duffy has done very well indeed with his package. In varying degrees so should the others. It'll be a crying shame if any of them end up playing for the U-23's and training with them.

Wilder is showing his harder side thez4 days and it starts to conflict with his image as a Players' Manager. All the retained players watch what goes on and I'm sure the manager will act honourably and sentimentally. If that doesn't work then he has to call them out and make sure his other players know what went on.

Our club has plenty of income all of a sudden but the manager will not waste it. Balancing act all along.

 

[sheffielder]

Carruthers especially has done next to nothing since he came here.

Holmes has done more than Carruthers?

 

[Linz]

I love how some people think that negotiating contracts is within the remit of a football manager, as though Chris Wilder is sat there with his reading specs on going through the terms and conditions.

This is the chap who deals with the contracts: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/carl-shieber-0a43249

 

[BushBlade]

I mean it’s completely unprovable.

“Dean Hammond might have had a horrendous influence on the field, but my word he was great off the pitch in getting Paul Coutts motivated for when Wilder took over.”

Yes, it’s unprovable but football isn’t a precise science so shouldn’t be treated as such.
Obviously Hammond didn’t have much of a positive influence, not the one Adkins was expecting, because we were shit. Whilst the likes of Holmes has been here we’ve been good, we just struggle to measure what, if any influence he’s had on that. What we do know is that Duffy himself said he performs better when his place is under pressure so it’s quite possible that he played better because we had Holmes and Carruthers who could potentially take his place.
We’ll never know. All we really know is that they were part of a successful squad and are now no longer required.

 

[BushBlade]

I love how some people think that negotiating contracts is within the remit of a football manager, as though Chris Wilder is sat there with his reading specs on going through the terms and conditions.

This is the chap who deals with the contracts: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/carl-shieber-0a43249

Surely CW has some involvement in agreeing heads of terms with Sheiber though? If only the basics such as wage range and contract length?

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I’m not sure Holmes’s off the field impact would have been any more than just a general extra body in the squad. In fact I’ve seen zero evidence that he was pushing Duffy or keeping Duffy motivated whatsoever. It would be like me saying “Ched Evans might have contributed absolutely nothing for us in his last spell, but no doubt his mere presence in those preseasons kept Sharp and McGoldrick on their toes.”

I'd completely disagree.

The fact that Wilder went out and bought a player in January who played the exact same position as Duffy clearly demonstrated that he didn't think he was a long term solution and he had to up his game.

To shoot your argument down, it would be the same for Ched that first summer Wilder brought him in. And similarly Wilder's bringing in Washington and Hogan last year certainly kept McGoldrick and Sharp on their toes.

 

[William]

Surely CW has some involvement in agreeing heads of terms with Sheiber though? If only the basics such as wage range and contract length?

You would think so, if he manages budgets as he suggested. He has to be able to say "I really need this guy for XYZ reason, he's worth XX% of my budget".

 

[LoughboroBlade]

What we do know is that Duffy himself said he performs better when his place is under pressure so it’s quite possible that he played better because we had Holmes and Carruthers who could potentially take his place.

I think that’s arguable for Carruthers for probably all of 2017. You’ve kind of made my point though where you put his place being under threat as a motivation for Duffy. Being on the bench regularly and there being a possibility of coming on Duffy is kind of essential to that, and rather tough to do in Holmes’s case where you’ve been frozen out of the squad or binned off on loan.

 

[Bladesman]

Train up Jake Wright for a defensive coach position - arguably has the best defensive brain out of the whole lot.

Yeah I always see him training closely with the first time. I did think he was lined up for some sort of backroom staff role.

 

[Linz]

There's an interesting article here: https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ed-boss-chris-wilder-on-transfer-deadline-day

 

[BushBlade]

I think that’s arguable for Carruthers for probably all of 2017. You’ve kind of made my point though where you put his place being under threat as a motivation for Duffy. Being on the bench regularly and there being a possibility of coming on Duffy is kind of essential to that, and rather tough to do in Holmes’s case where you’ve been frozen out of the squad or binned off on loan.

We could argue this all day because it’s all unprovable but maybe just the act of signing Holmes was enough to get Duffy’s adrenaline going a bit.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Two way street. Some of these lads have played their part but the club has moved on too quickly for them all.

Agree contracts are two-way streets. As a club we should show our appreciation of them as contributors to our success by negotiating a generous package with another club and the individuals so that all three parties benefit.

I'm told Duffy has done very well indeed with his package. In varying degrees so should the others. It'll be a crying shame if any of them end up playing for the U-23's and training with them.

Wilder is showing his harder side thez4 days and it starts to conflict with his image as a Players' Manager. All the retained players watch what goes on and I'm sure the manager will act honourably and sentimentally. If that doesn't work then he has to call them out and make sure his other players know what went on.

Our club has plenty of income all of a sudden but the manager will not waste it. Balancing act all along.

I'm not sure what you mean by acting sentimentally, but acting honourably would be to honour and accept the contracts the club agreed to. "Calling them out" on players sticking to their contracts for the purposes of sending a warning shot to current players doesn't sound very honourable to me.

 

[Kev Gee]

If they move to L1 or 2 then They will likely be taking a paycut after all the promotion bonuses have upped their basic pay.

If you were 33/34 would you take a pay cut?

I can understand both sides.
They could ask for lower wages but a longer contract.

Depends how motivated they are to seek first team football.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I'm not sure what you mean by acting sentimentally, but acting honourably would be to honour and accept the contracts the club agreed to. "Calling them out" on players sticking to their contracts for the purposes of sending a warning shot to current players doesn't sound very honourable to me.

I think the full paragraph above, which includes 'the calling out' reflects the stages of the process and the challenges in context as I see them.

I think we can all trust Wilder not to lose sight of the basics which got him where he is after over 800 games as a manager.

 

[BushBlade]

If they move to L1 or 2 then They will likely be taking a paycut after all the promotion bonuses have upped their basic pay.

If you were 33/34 would you take a pay cut?

I can understand both sides.
They could ask for lower wages but a longer contract.

Depends how motivated they are to seek first team football.

I’d take a pay cut to be 34 again.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

I think the full paragraph above, which includes 'the calling out' reflects the stages of the process and the challenges in context as I see them.

I think we can all trust Wilder not to lose sight of the basics which got him where he is after over 800 games as a manager.

However successful he is and however long he has been a manager, doesn't mean he can't be wrong. I think he's wrong on this, but even if you think he's right, it can't possibly be described as honourable or sentimental.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Yeah I always see him training closely with the first time. I did think he was lined up for some sort of backroom staff role.

Again, I think our success has made a victim of that idea. The Jagielka deal would suggest he is probably now earmarked for that staff role

 

[Th!stledo]

Really pleased about most of the comments/feelings shown here. If due to our success, players are no longer required then we should offer them a package that gives them an opportunity to find another club and not be financially out of pocket. The club mutually agreed the contract with the player and should honour it.

If the player wanted to move away while in contract we would expect a fee/compensation and would not be pleased if the player made comments to the media slagging off the club for doing so. Pains me to say this but I feel CW should rethink his position/comments on this issue.

 

[Bladesman]

Again, I think our success has made a victim of that idea. The Jagielka deal would suggest he is probably now earmarked for that staff role

Yeah I think had we stayed in the championship he would have become a coach. Although Jags has said he was tempted to return to us even if we had not got promoted.

 

[BushBlade]

Pains me to say this but I feel CW should rethink his position/comments on this issue.

He was asked a question in a post match interview, you can tell from his reply ‘And, although he declined to mention any names, Wilder told BBC Radio Sheffield: "It depends if they want to go and play football.’

Maybe he needs to learn to say ‘no comment’ (although no doubt someone will have an issue with that) but it’s a small story that’s been blown up into a big one on a slow news day.

 

[Sabella's Socks]

The problem is we’re dealing with players who are 32-34 and probably haven’t earned a massive amount of money during lower league careers. It’s got to be tough for players like that to give up thousands of pounds just for a move back into League One or Two.

The obvious candidates are Leon - and to a lesser extent Jake Wright.

If, say, Leon in particular was on some kind of promotion bonus and a wage increase then, given his age, it makes perfect sense for him to stick around. (And even if he wasn't it still does.)

The only "play football" option would be if a League One or Championship club would stump up for a significant part of his wages, but I can't see that happening.

I get that it's a pain the arse for Wilder, the club, and the team, but it's really hard to blame him (Leon).

It's an unforseen consequence of a pretty extraordinary set of circumstances.

 

[Cheesebored]

I'm not sure what you mean by acting sentimentally, but acting honourably would be to honour and accept the contracts the club agreed to. "Calling them out" on players sticking to their contracts for the purposes of sending a warning shot to current players doesn't sound very honourable to me.

I have no problem whatsoever in Wilders comments. These players contracts WILL be honoured. These lads aren't cleaning toilets on 200 quid a week. The extra money is nice for sure but surely not a necessity at this stage in their careers. Whatever happened to a bit of professional pride. Surely we all play or played football because of our love for the game. To stagnate around the U23s shows what they prioritise and although his comments have been blown out all proportion, I couldn't agree more with the manager. People putting forward a case that some of these players are hanging around for a shot at a start in the Prem are, frankly, living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

[Bladesman]

He was asked a question in a post match interview, you can tell from his reply ‘And, although he declined to mention any names, Wilder told BBC Radio Sheffield: "It depends if they want to go and play football.’

Maybe he needs to learn to say ‘no comment’ (although no doubt someone will have an issue with that) but it’s a small story that’s been blown up into a big one on a slow news day.

I think he just wants them out playing football even if its on loan and we are paying a chunk of their wage. I think he is irked that some of have not taken the chance to go back out on loan.

That said he gave these contracts out and some of these players didn't need such long contracts. The likes of Carruthers were given a 3 and a half year deal while we were still in League 1.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

I have no problem whatsoever in Wilders comments. These players contracts WILL be honoured. These lads aren't cleaning toilets on 200 quid a week. The extra money is nice for sure but surely not a necessity at this stage in their careers. Whatever happened to a bit of professional pride. Surely we all play or played football because of our love for the game. To stagnate around the U23s shows what they prioritise and although his comments have been blown out all proportion, I couldn't agree more with the manager. People putting forward a case that some of these players are hanging around for a shot at a start in the Prem are, frankly, living in cloud cuckoo land.

We don't know what the financial situation of these players is. They have short playing careers and below the PL I would think it's not so easy to make a few years' earning stretch a lifetime, especially if they're looking for a degree of luxury. "Professional Pride" is meaningless. They are probably prouder being a footballer at a PL club than they would be at a L1 club anyway, playing or not. Expecting footballers to ignore their own contracts when it suits the club is bizarre. It's hard enough getting a regular place in a first team, earning a good contract, being lucky enough to get promotion bonuses and pay increases. Saying, "Now you've made it, now you've got the good wage, go away and earn less" is not something many people would do in their own lives.

 

[Sheff de party]

It’s funny how players get abused for forcing through a move when they have a contract, and when they won’t move on because they have a contract. Often by the same people.

Agree with most of the above. Just because the wages are higher than most jobs doesn’t mean you should have to leave a contract signed in good faith. If you want to sit on it, it’s your prerogative I think. If CW is that bothered, pay them up and get rid.

 

[essexblade73]

It’s funny how players get abused for forcing through a move when they have a contract, and when they won’t move on because they have a contract. Often by the same people.

Agree with most of the above. Just because the wages are higher than most jobs doesn’t mean you should have to leave a contract signed in good faith. If you want to sit on it, it’s your prerogative I think. If CW is that bothered, pay them up and get rid.

True. However if I was a player I would want to play. Guess it depends if you can get a contract elsewhere and if it pays close to what you were getting

 

[A Storm of Blades]

He was asked a question in a post match interview, you can tell from his reply ‘And, although he declined to mention any names, Wilder told BBC Radio Sheffield: "It depends if they want to go and play football.’

Maybe he needs to learn to say ‘no comment’ (although no doubt someone will have an issue with that) but it’s a small story that’s been blown up into a big one on a slow news day.

To be honest, I think there was a perfectly reasonable middle ground between “no comment” and slightly overstepping the mark. He could have quite easily mentioned that a few are still looking for new clubs etc and left it at that. Like you say, not a big deal but he does need to be a bit more careful. As funny as it was, I did cringe a bit when he’d had a few and called Leeds muppets...

 

[BushBlade]

To be honest, I think there was a perfectly reasonable middle ground between “no comment” and slightly overstepping the mark. He could have quite easily mentioned that a few are still looking for new clubs etc and left it at that. Like you say, not a big deal but he does need to be a bit more careful. As funny as it was, I did cringe a bit when he’d had a few and called Leeds muppets...

He could but that’s the problem with post match interviews, a manager has been concentrating on the game, is emotional about the result and then gets broadsided with a question he wasn’t expecting. So he says what he thinks rather than trotting out a pre prepared answer.

It’s very easy to say what he should have said after the event. We’ve all been on the spot at some time in our lives and thought, with the benefit of hindsight ‘I should have answered that better, I should have said this’