Kop Stand Improvements

[Tony]

Think PN and DB talk the biggest loadda bollox on here. Think they could be siblings of Mr Pitsmoor Pillock. Last time in the Prem we had a near 100% home capacity average. Things have expanded since then. We could easily average 35/45000 depending on how we go in the next few seasons. Take your defeatist attitudes back to NKT.

 

[alcoblade]

Neither Sheffield club has averaged over 35,000 since the mid 60s I believe. Since 1970 only United have avgd over 30,000 just twice and only once in the last 30 years.

The Prem League is bigger now then ever before but still not sure where 12k a week extra fans come from? I'd love it to happen but as I said on the ticket post we are still nearly 3k short of selling out opening day...our 1st game at this level for 12 years.

I'd very surprised if fans who have barely gone in last 12 years (basically 500 pts is like 5-10 games over this period) suddenly decide a few days before Sunday to pay £35-£40 to sit in the pukka pie corner or kop wings. Maybe tne way the club has sold tickeys and/,or prices dont help but id be stunned if we shif those 2500-3000 in the next 4 days.

As I say love us to average 35 to 40k but we can't sell the ground out in its current capacity. If we do that week in, week out then ground extension can be considered.

I’m sure we’d sell out given a simpler sales structure. I still think we will. But to make it impossible to (for example) take your child for the first time, or a workmate, seems overly restrictive and makes it difficult to attract new fans, just at the time it’s the very easiest to do so.

I think the club will make ticket sales gradually easier as they learn.

 

[Sheffsteel]

We could easily average 35/45000 depending on how we go in the next few seasons. Take your defeatist attitudes back to NKT.

‘Easily” is probably the wrong word. It’s not easy to achieve those numbers, do things wrong then we’ll average 30 to 32K every season
...however I would agree that “potentially” we could average 35K to 45K if we expanded the stadium and did everything right.

There would need to be a ticketing system where tickets are easily obtainable, maybe have a bigger away end or neutral area like Fulham.
Keep Wilder as manager and show decent ambition, play entertaining football. Keep tickets affordable with offers for kids and students.
Might sound daft but the longer Wednesday stay in the Championship the more kids and neutrals/ students we attract and our fanbase grows.

 

[metalblade]

So 2500 tickets are left then eh, how many of those are restricted view? It is utterly ridiculous to say the lane is big enough it isn't. In a perfect world where every seat has a good view it is always the last few seats that are the hardest to shift because they are usually single seats, when a stadium is over 90% sold out this is always a problem.
If the Lane held 40,000 we would sell 35,000 easily for most games but as we are we need to make the best of what we have. Every area in the ground is unrestricted views except the kop the facilities on there are so 1980's it needs bulldozing and rebuilding from the ground up. Those saying it will take years to pay for itself are right .......................... but they are still thinking Championship where crowd size is a big part of the clubs income, this goes out of the window when you enter the Premier League where crowds provide only a tiny proportion of club income. A few years in the Premier League would pay for major ground rebuilding, I know it is hard for a club who over the last 25 years have only had two in the top division but the club and it's fans have to throw off this small club mentality.

 

[Deadbat]

I will agree to disagree with some of posters above. If and a big if we are still in prem in a few years and can prove we can sell out nearly every week...then we should extend but if we cannot full the ground for our first game at this level for 12 years that does not smack of a huge demand.

You look at the online map and there is nearly a 1,000 empty seats in the Bramall Lane upper tier..many together and a decent views. So saying there are all single or restricted tickets is wrong. If we have such a demand and can easily sell out as some are saying then these will all go from Weds to Fri when they go on sale to fans who have effectively been to 5 or 10 games minimum in the last 12 years (500 pts).

We will see but I have my doubts if we will shift all these. I do hope I'm wrong and hope we can go on and see the Lane full of 35-40,000 but it has never happened in the last 50 yrs (even with hugely successful sides Inn the early 70s). Where would this growth of fans come from? I am not sure there is the affluence families have like some of the London and Southern clubs (also West Ham, Brighton and Huddersfield all did various ticket deals). The floating fan is not going to pay £35 for a single game on the Kop to see us play Burnley.

The mistake we made was not selling more season tickets. If this was EPL enforced and the only way we can sell more STs is by having a higher capacity I concede that is a different argument but I have not seen anything to say the Premier League capped it? I might be wrong. I think the issue with us having the number we have for general sale is that the way we sell them/combine with the prices will make it hard to shift those 2,500 we may always have spare outside the big games.

Would we sell them with an easier ticketing system or better pricing for single games? I don't know being honest....but interesting we barely had a seat spare last time we were up there and this time we may well have a number judging by sales for the first two home games. Were we capped last time to ST holders?..Can't imagine we had many ST back in 2007 and do wonder how easy it was/how tickets were priced that season in comparison that we did sell out most games?

 

[alcoblade]

I will agree to disagree with some of posters above. If and a big if we are still in prem in a few years and can prove we can sell out nearly every week...then we should extend but if we cannot full the ground for our first game at this level for 12 years that does not smack of a huge demand.

You look at the online map and there is nearly a 1,000 empty seats in the Bramall Lane upper tier..many together and a decent views. So saying there are all single or restricted tickets is wrong. If we have such a demand and can easily sell out as some are saying then these will all go from Weds to Fri when they go on sale to fans who have effectively been to 5 or 10 games minimum in the last 12 years (500 pts).

We will see but I have my doubts if we will shift all these. I do hope I'm wrong and hope we can go on and see the Lane full of 35-40,000 but it has never happened in the last 50 yrs (even with hugely successful sides Inn the early 70s). Where would this growth of fans come from? I am not sure there is the affluence families have like some of the London and Southern clubs (also West Ham, Brighton and Huddersfield all did various ticket deals). The floating fan is not going to pay £35 for a single game on the Kop to see us play Burnley.

The mistake we made was not selling more season tickets. If this was EPL enforced and the only way we can sell more STs is by having a higher capacity I concede that is a different argument but I have not seen anything to say the Premier League capped it? I might be wrong. I think the issue with us having the number we have for general sale is that the way we sell them/combine with the prices will make it hard to shift those 2,500 we may always have spare outside the big games.

Would we sell them with an easier ticketing system or better pricing for single games? I don't know being honest....but interesting we barely had a seat spare last time we were up there and this time we may well have a number judging by sales for the first two home games. Were we capped last time to ST holders?..Can't imagine we had many ST back in 2007 and do wonder how easy it was/how tickets were priced that season in comparison that we did sell out most games?

I believe we had about 22,000 st holders last time. We have about 25,000 now.

The difference this time would be the price of the ticket (Palace, live on Sky, on Sunday’s - category A from £35, really?), and the over complication on the way we sell tickets, making it so difficult to bring youngsters, casual and floating fans.

Our crowds increased after the first few games last time, iirc. That was due to us freeing to the way tickets were sold.

 

[Deadbat]

I believe we had about 22,000 st holders last time. We have about 25,000 now.

The difference this time would be the price of the ticket (Palace, live on Sky, on Sunday’s - category A from £35, really?), and the over complication on the way we sell tickets, making it so difficult to bring youngsters, casual and floating fans.

Our crowds increased after the first few games last time, iirc. That was due to us freeing to the way tickets were sold.

Hope you are right. I think the pricing is a tad high and I feel the way they have sold them is too restrictive.

If we have 25,000 season tickets now and 2,000 for away fans and there is approx 2,500 left....then that suggests the walk up is 500. That is really poor.

I thought we had capped ST sales at 22.5k which means we have sold maybe 2-2,500 walk up which is still poor. Outside of the top 6 games....this will be replicated unless the club reconsider how they have sold tickets or adapt the match bandings to suit opposition.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Strikes me, that's exactly what a builder would want .......

Why build owt to last 100 years ........... money to be made

It wasn’t the fault of the builders or the architects. The club went for the cheapest possible option. I have the misfortune of sitting on it, its shit.

 

[YES Blade]

A brand new stadium with good facilities would definitely attract more fans. History shows that every club that has built something new has experienced a feel good factor and an increase in attendances.

This season as a bare minimum we should be going through the feasibility stages of either building a new 90 degree rotated stadium at the Lane or moving to a new site.

 

[alcoblade]

Hope you are right. I think the pricing is a tad high and I feel the way they have sold them is too restrictive.

If we have 25,000 season tickets now and 2,000 for away fans and there is approx 2,500 left....then that suggests the walk up is 500. That is really poor.

I thought we had capped ST sales at 22.5k which means we have sold maybe 2-2,500 walk up which is still poor. Outside of the top 6 games....this will be replicated unless the club reconsider how they have sold tickets or adapt the match bandings to suit opposition.

The unrestricted capacity is 32,500 isn't it? If so, sales would be in line with the number of memberships sold so far.

That’s as many as we could have sold, up to now.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

The unrestricted capacity is 32,500 isn't it?

32,609 according to the newly-updated visitors guide. But that’s unchanged from a year ago so seems they haven’t taken into account the seating changes made over the summer.

https://www.sufc.co.uk/siteassets/downloads/20190809_visitorguide.pdf

 

[haich1889]

That’s because we haven’t had success for a sustained period of time, it makes all the difference.

Sustained success & playing attractive football in the top flight for the first time since the 70's.
Also the City now has 2 large Universitys which will add to attendances.

 

[alcoblade]

A brand new stadium with good facilities would definitely attract more fans. History shows that every club that has built something new has experienced a feel good factor and an increase in attendances.

This season as a bare minimum we should be going through the feasibility stages of either building a new 90 degree rotated stadium at the Lane or moving to a new site.

Moving to a new site? Really?

Fuck that!

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Hope you are right. I think the pricing is a tad high and I feel the way they have sold them is too restrictive.

If we have 25,000 season tickets now and 2,000 for away fans and there is approx 2,500 left....then that suggests the walk up is 500. That is really poor.

I thought we had capped ST sales at 22.5k which means we have sold maybe 2-2,500 walk up which is still poor. Outside of the top 6 games....this will be replicated unless the club reconsider how they have sold tickets or adapt the match bandings to suit opposition.

I think you're probably right about the season tickets. If we've sold 25,000 hardly anyone else has bought a ticket.
We had a bit of an odd approach to it close season where there was very little information from the club about the number of season tickets sold, why they stopped selling them and so on. There was an impression it was going to be very difficult to get a ticket, then the daft membership scheme, all topped off with unjustifiable price increases.
They'll probably shake things up if they don't sell out on Sunday.

 

[alcoblade]

I think you're probably right about the season tickets. If we've sold 25,000 hardly anyone else has bought a ticket.
We had a bit of an odd approach to it close season where there was very little information from the club about the number of season tickets sold, why they stopped selling them and so on. There was an impression it was going to be very difficult to get a ticket, then the daft membership scheme, all topped off with unjustifiable price increases.
They'll probably shake things up if they don't sell out on Sunday.

I believe we sold about 2,000 memberships. We couldn’t have sold any more tickets at this point.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Agree it’s a conundrum, if you do something then may as well do it properly and future proof it

but when the return on investment will be minimal I can’t imagine any owner would out of the kindness of their heart treat us like a charity spending such a large amount on a stand that it might take I guess 100 years to get their money back. If he did it cheap then at least it might take I’m guessing more like 20 years. Also a total rebuild of the Kop would piss off fans for 2 or 3 years when we’ve lost 11,000 seats, they may never return and/ or might not pay the increased prices.

Also the Kop is traditionally the cheapest area of the ground and I think it should remain the the budget area built on a budget.
If people want more luxury then they have the option of the South stand....think it’s fair to cater for all fans...offering a choice.

It’s the cheapest because it behind the goal, just like every other ground in the country. “Cheap” doesn’t have to mean sub-standard

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

If the Lane held 40,000 we would sell 35,000 easily for most games

How can you say that so casually?

It's absolute nonsense.

 

[metalblade]

How can you say that so casually?

It's absolute nonsense.

Why do you think that? be interesting to know?
My reasoning is we can sell 30,000 as we are now what is left are crap restricted view seats on a stand that is so out of date it borders on disgusting. Add to that the restrictions now in place for fans who can't get to every game or walk up fans like having to buy memberships, booking fees, loyalty points and an increase in price for inferior seats many will not bother when they can sit in a nice warm pub or at home to watch the game.

ps. we are talking crystal Palace here when Man U, Liverpool etc are here demand will far exceed what is available. Palace cat A

 

[Dkc]

For me it's the memberhip scheme that's holding back ticket sales. The casual fan who wants to go to the live on Sky Palace game will need to find 77 quid to buy a ticket for the cheapest adult seat in the ground. Last time we were in the Prem that casual fan could have bought a ticket for the first home game v Liverpool for 20 quid.

There's no point at all in memberships apart from fleecing the fans. The club already has a record of who the fans are. They are on the database with a purchase history. 'Memberships' are just a way of exploiting fans' fears that they won't get a ticket. A way of allowing fans to pay extra to jump the queue ahead of less affluent fans.

I now expect tickets for Palace to go on general sale to non-members and not sell out. We could probably have sold out even at 35 quid per ticket if there hadn't been for the uncertainty about who is able to buy a ticket.

Membership might help you get a ticket for Liverpool or Man U at home, but most other games will probably reach general sale under the current structure. No one else will be buying memberships if they see tickets will reach general sale

 

[mancunianblade]

The problem with the argument of waiting for sustained success for development is that development isn’t instant. So if and when success is attained you then have to wait for the development to be complete and could potentially miss the boat?

Atalanta in Italy have reached the CL this season and have to play their CL games at the San Siro, not suggesting we are going to make the CL but you get my point

 

[Sheffsteel]

It’s the cheapest because it behind the goal, just like every other ground in the country. “Cheap” doesn’t have to mean sub-standard

The current Kop bolt-on design is NOT sub standard and would massively improve to current outdated facilities.
No restricted views, removal of pillars, specious concourse areas all under cover and enclosed protected from wind and rain, new spacious toilets, bigger bars and kiosks. Better more spacious entrances and exits, more leg room/ steeper rake for the 3,200 seats at the back.

The 2 big advantages of the bolt on designis that is much cheaper than a full rebuild and the most important advantage is that there’s no loss of capacity for 2 years.
Imagine the club writing to some season ticket holders telling them there no where to transfer them to anywhere in the stadium, so hopefully they’ll understand and accept their 2 year stadium ban, all that hassle, expense and inconvenience for 2 inch more knee room and a slightly steeper rake.
Also bear in mind that if we installed rail seating and/ or safe standing then the 2 inch more knee room and steeper raked would become irrelevant

Personally I would ideally prefer a full rebuild, my point is that it doesn’t make any business sense compared to the current design.

 

[You Fill Up My Senses]

All this talk of ground expansion drags my feeble, old aged mind back to the early 70s when we committed to building the South Stand at the expense of investment in a good, but aging team. That was the start of the demise that led to us dropping to the fourth division. IMO the only way to expand the ground is to stay in the Premier League for at least 3 seasons, continually investing sensible amounts in improving the squad while holding back some of the riches on offer until we can afford to build without taking on massive debts. If we build on borrowed money and get relegated the parachute payments will be blown on servicing debts and the whole cycle of demise will begin again. I would rather watch the Blades survive and grow in the Premier League from a crap seat on a crap kop than sit in a comfortable seat in a half empty stand watching league one football again in five to ten years time because of poor financial planning, once in a lifetime is enough.

As for the membership scheme this stinks of a rip off. How do the club expect to gain new supporters and grow the fan base if 'virgin' fans such as the enormous student population can't walk up and buy a ticket at a reasonable price? I know many life long Blades who cannot get to all the games for a variety of reason who aren't going to pay £40 for a membership just to be put in a queue on the off chance that we might not sell out quickly for a relegation battle against Southampton.

£35 for a 'Cat A' game against Palace is also a kick in the balls for those walk up fans that have been walking up for years while we were in the doldrums. £8 for a pass on Now TV gets you the game in the comfort of your own front room (if you can't get a dodgy stream). Bearing in mind that away tickets are capped at £30 why are we charging more for fans who have been coming on and off for years or are the very ones who will grow our fan base in the future. Once they get used to not coming it will be very hard to persuade them to come back, especially if we do not survive in the Prem.

 

[Snake]

Like many have said the ticket pricing, membership and how tickets sales have been structured has not been handled well at all by the club. I think we've made a tremendous gaff here. We are the only premiership club in the whole area ..... the nearest to the west is Manchester, North is Newcastle and South is Leicester. That is a huge area for us to saturate and market. Chessy for example are now non-league .... there is a big potential to get new fans from NE Derbyshire.

Ok, take the top 6 clubs out of the equation .... ticket sales for these will look after themselves. Games like Palace, Leicester etc should be big opportunities for us be imaginative with pricing and sales with the aim of attracting the next generation of season ticket holder.

McCabe has many faults, but one thing he has done correctly over the past 15 years or so is put strategies in place to attract and grow our fan base. I think we are now shooting ourselves in the foot when we have a tremendous opportunity to do the exact opposite.

 

[Worksop II]

The club went for the cheapest possible option

The builder I was talking about owns the Club

 

[Grizzly blade]

I have a Solution to the problem of odd single tickets being left.
It may upset a few but ST seats shouldn’t be a right of passage that they’ve had the same ones forever and so that’s their seat.
So if the club can only sell 90% as ST then they will be able to sell them so there are no single seats left.
The other 10% should be sold with non specific seats in one area of the ground. So folk rock up early and find a seat.

 

[I should coco]

The builder I was talking about owns the Club

KM wasn't even on the board at the time, but don't let that stop you.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I have a Solution to the problem of odd single tickets being left.
It may upset a few but ST seats shouldn’t be a right of passage that they’ve had the same ones forever and so that’s their seat.
So if the club can only sell 90% as ST then they will be able to sell them so there are no single seats left.
The other 10% should be sold with non specific seats in one area of the ground. So folk rock up early and find a seat.

Seems like a really good idea. Can’t see any season ticket holders buying seats on the South stand side of the Kop, so could apply it there.

However think there could be safety issues relating to disturbances and examples of abuse, normally CCTV cameras can identify any individuals name and address because they’ll be sat in a designated seat.

Also there’s always potential big problems if you don’t issue designated seats in a seated area
Where fans forget their seat at half time or can’t find an empty seat. If s married couple turn up late on the Kop then it might only be single seats left
So they are likely to be separated leading to complaints.

Or maybe an individual wants to sit with their mates but someone else refuses to move up, could be heated arguments causing difficulties for the stewards.

 

[Dkc]

We should be ready to sign contracts for the reconstruction of the kop as soon as PL status for next season is assured. As has been said, work could be carried out next summer and could be all but finished by September. The existing kop seats would remain in place so no one would lose their seat. To me it's a no-brainer to get it done. KM has said that we will go ahead if we survive our first season in the PL, but there's no guarantee he will still be around next year. But if he is, leaving us in the PL with a new kop would be a fantastic legacy.

 

[nopigfansintown]

The club sells out the corporate facilities for almost every game in the Championship and has lost a significant amount of its inadequate capacity to TV companies this season. Corporate facilities on the side stands of stadiums are sold for more than those behind goals, hence offer a better ROI.They can also be sold to the many well supported away sides in the Premier League/Championship.The South stand is already the stand that sells out the quickest in the Championship - with fans paying the highest prices in the ground. Extending the South also allows the club to give the away team the full BL end; an end that could be filled again by many Champ/Premier clubs
It would also give the club a visual boon, the frontage of a new huge stand would act as a big selling point for the club.The underneath of the stand could be packed with amenities that can attract a different clientele and cater for those spending their match day cash in town.
The kop has inadequate leg room, pre match, half time and even post match facilities which put limitations on the match day experience and revenue generation.There is also a lot of restricted view seats - above and beyond those at other clubs.
The argument that the club couldn't fill a bigger stadium is undermined by the crowd sizes the last time we were in the PL; the limitations to away capacity; and the inadequate facilities that housed these fans at the time. The club appears to have made a huge error in the way they are selling tickets this season, when last time we were here we had an exponential growth in our fanbase.
I work with students and have been inundated with questions about how to get tickets for BL.I've had almost 400 requests and it's not the start of semester one yet. A lot of these students are from wealthy backgrounds and wouldn't think twice about spending their cash at a PL game. I've had to tell them it's very difficult...
Surely this is false economy?

 

[I should coco]

As has been said, work could be carried out next summer and could be all but finished by September.

Will people stop making this type of shit up?

To do the Kop properly means moving the 'Kop' it is named after, that is, a large pile of earth.

Spion Kop (stadiums) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As the Lane was badly bombed in WWII and we had a game called off in the 80's for a UXB found nearby on Lancing Road, there may well be more 'gifts' from the Luftwaffe in that heap. It will not be shifted in days or weeks, but will have to done slowly with modern day bomb detection expertise on hand.

Forget the steelwork, but I'd be amazed if the site could be cleared and levelled in much less than a year.