Is Blackwell doing a remarkable job?

[Flatulent_Bob]

While thinking about whether I'd quite like QPR to offer Blackwell the job I thought I'd consider why another team would want him. Has done a good job at United?

Nailing my colours to the mast I'm not a Blackwell fan, don't like his tactics or his manner however since he came in our results and therefore league position had improved.
He's done this while losing a lot of his key people for various reasons.

He got the backend of our failed push for promotion, where we had to sell to balance the books. Losing the likes of Hulse, Beattie, Naughton, Tonge, and this season has had to cope with no first choice keeper and most of the team out injured.

Despite this we got to the play-off final last season and we are still in with a very strong shout of the playoffs again this season. All this while completely stripping and rebuilding the team with little funds.

We are entering the second half of the season 2 points off the playoffs with 22 games and 66 points left to play for. We 11 points of an automatic place and we have the vast majority of our squad returning to fitness.


So, the question I am asking is do we expect too much, or should Blackwell be achieving with what he has at his disposal regardless?

 

[LouTheBlade]

So, the question I am asking is do we expect too much, or should Blackwell be achieving with what he has at his disposal regardless?

Nice post Bob. Yes I do think our fans expect far too much. The man has had his hands tied and has had awful luck with injuries to his best players.

I wouldn't say he's doing a remarkable job but I would say he's doing well under the circumstances. His football isn't half as bad as its being made out to be. We could do a lot worse.

Blades to get the squad fit and finish 4th - UTB.

 

[DuncDisorderly]

*FB lights fuse and legs it*

I share those feelings Bob. I don't really connect with Blackie as a personality, the tactics can be questioned, but bearing in mind how we've had to dodge and dive on squad., I can't imagine how he or frankly anyone else could have done any better. He certainly deserves more respect than he is afforded by many posters.

Similar example being the piggy fans reaction to the news that Brian Laws was actually the top rated manager in the CCC taking resources into account.

Its a very human trait to think about greener grass, but as Charlton fans found out with Curbishley, sometimes they really have 'taken the club as far as they can'...

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I just wanted to generate a reasonable debate about the manager rather than the knee jerk Blackwell in/out usually fuelled by a recent poor result.
Personally I wouldn't lose any sleep if QPR came in wanting Blackwell and offering compensation. The follow up question was would I regret this?

No problem with people flaming him if they can reason how they think he should of done better given the circumstances.

Actually I do hope Ollessendro, Micalijo and some of the other poster who want us to replace the manager reply it should keep things lively.

 

[Torrix1889]

The question is can you see things being any different in 12/24 months time under Blackwell?

Personally I can't.

Would things be any different in 12/24 months time under anyone else? Who knows?

Personally under someone like Sean O'Driscoll or Lee Clarke I think it would.

 

[Ollessendro]

While thinking about whether I'd quite like QPR to offer Blackwell the job I thought I'd consider why another team would want him. Has done a good job at United?

So, the question I am asking is do we expect too much, or should Blackwell be achieving with what he has at his disposal regardless?

The answer to the 1st questiuon is that yes, he has done a good job. He turned us round and saved us from possible relegation and then almost got us promoted. The results speak for themselves. I thank him for taking us to where he has (at least the end of last season). I think he made the right decision to hand his notice in after the play off final. I believe his time is up and he won't take things further.

In answer to the second question I think he is underchaieving! Look at the qulaity of players that we have and look where we are. The division is fucking crap and we are still 7th. Yes, we had injuries, but the fact is that even during our purple patch we were still putting out teams that should have been hammering the shit opposition we face in this league. See my response to Lou.

Nice post Bob. Yes I do think our fans expect far too much. The man has had his hands tied and has had awful luck with injuries to his best players.

Are you winding us up Lou??? You often come up with very interesting posts, so i'm not sure whether to take this one seriosuly. We are talking about a squad/team with Kyle Walker, Chris Morgan, Matthew Kilgallon, Nick Montygommery, James haper, Lee Williamson, Jamie Ward, Henri Camara, Steven Quinn, Darius Henderson and Ched Evans. All either proven premiership players, quality players or players with bags of potential.

It's ridiculous that we are 7th with the team that Blackwell has at his disposal. The fact that we can;'t beat Forrest, Leicester, Ipswich and Donny at home is unnaceptable. We then lose games to Leicester, Swansea, Coverntry, Blackpool and Scunthorpe. We are talking about shit, shit teams. Not one of these teams are actually really good.

Personally I wouldn't lose any sleep if QPR came in wanting Blackwell and offering compensation. The follow up question was would I regret this?

I'd be dancing around my office kissing people if we got rid of that clown. Compensation? I'd pay them. i'm sure i can find enough posters on this forum to chip in and give QPR some incentive to take King Kevin away from us.

Micalijo, Pinchy, Torrix, Lou, Revolution, what do you say? Shall we chip in and stump up some cash for QPR to take Blackwell off our hands???!!

 

[Grecian2000]

He's done an absolutely remarkable job.

Before he came along I couldn't see any way that my Saturday's (and quite often several other days of the week) wouldn't be dominated by all things SUFC during the season.
Now, his abject negativity away from home (oh look we went out to try and win a game on Tuesday instead of the usual draw and . . . ) has saved me hundreds of hours and pounds because I've not been away since Forest last season, I've dodged the FA Cup (my favourite competition) and the ST is under serious danger of not being renewed.

I can appreciate he has had a difficult job and has been managing under severe constraints which we still don't know the full extent of. However, for me it's about the way we go about it. There is no need to be so dull and negative if you have any idea at all on how to produce open attacking football. He doesn't and it shows.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

When is his contract up? Let him go at the end of that with a big thank you and bring in a young and talented manager who can re-build but with little cash. You cant deny that he has done well in terms of results. If it wasnt for the bad run of injurys we'd be in the play offs at the moment.

 

[Robbie]

When is his contract up?

Year and a half time, or is it 2 and a half years? hmmmm

Blackwell when he first came in did an absolutely sterling job. We looked a thread from every part of the pitch and the results flowed.

Fast forward to the next season (last season), we looked boring, stagnant and devoid of ideas.
We ground out results to get us into the play offs, which we all subsequently know what happened. He got outclassed by a better manager 3 times in one season. By playing the same way each time.

This season, there is no change of impetus. We are negative away from home. We look like we have no clue as to how to break some teams down when they're on the defensive at home.

To top all this off, Blackwell is really ugly and hurts my eyes

 

[JohnDenver]

I think his W/D/L record is indeed remarkable. If the football was easier on the eye then I'd also class his management as remarkable.

I can forgive him most of his sins given the mess he inherited, how close he took us last season, the plumetting budget, sales and injuries.

Expectations are too high. Boro's squad is far more talented than ours for example. But then some weaker teams do play better football than us which is a frustration.

If he'd trust in our flair players a little more, and return to the fearless attitude of his first season, then I think we'd lose more games but also win some more (and more fans).

Easy for me to say innit?

 

[tomtheblade]

He's a good manager because he gets results. It's a shame this doesn't go for play off finals.

If only he had more confidence in our players to go out and really take it to the opposition from the off, we'd be a much better side and i daresay we'd win more often as well.

Sadly he thinks that just because we're doing acceptably well, his tactics are spot on and there's no need for expanding our play into a more attacking style, of which we are capable.

We are usually better in the 2nd half of the season under him, so here's hoping.

 

[Wards]

Nice post Bob. Yes I do think our fans expect far too much. The man has had his hands tied and has had awful luck with injuries to his best players.

I wouldn't say he's doing a remarkable job but I would say he's doing well under the circumstances. His football isn't half as bad as its being made out to be. We could do a lot worse.

Blades to get the squad fit and finish 4th - UTB.

It's the worst football I've seen at the lane by a long shot, well since I was going since 89. I'm not counting Heath btw

That said, you can't argue that he's not doing a good job. Having his hands tied, reducing the outgoings as well as keeping up a promotion challenge has to be admired, however difficult and cringeworthy it is to watch at times.

Our fans have high/unrealistic expectations - mostly the fans we picked up during the promotion/premiership season. I still see the core of the fans at away games and I'd think the majority are satisfied, if not enthusiastic, with Blackwell in charge.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

I think he's done a great job given the state we were in when he came and the fact he's kept us competitive this season. He was undoubtedly a stop-gap when he came in but no-one could really say he wasn't worthy of a chance after the end to the 07/08 season.

We can all argue about him as a person but at the end of the day, how many would moan if Sean 'Mr Charisma' O'Driscoll came in next week ? He's very much in the 'try not to lose first' tactic camp but his record stands up against most in terms of results at a time when teams in a similar position to us have struggled.

OK he's made bad signings but he's also made good ones, no different to any other manager. Could anyone have done any better, difficult question. You could argue that he falls short when it matters but you could also argue that his 'style' got us in that position in the 1st place.

The bottom line, as others have said, is that bar a disastrous set of results, he's here to ride out the financial storm for the next season at least IMO. Things can change very quickly but at least he provides McCabe with what he wants and does get results on the pitch, even if those results, and performances, fall short of a what a lot of fans expect.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Blackwell has proven that you don't have to be very good at your job to get limited success.
Given the pool of players he inherited he struggled when the chips were down!
He was clearly shown to be second best by Owen Coyle who had worked United out to a Tee and with an inferior squad beat us three times in the season!
His total negativety when playing away and trying to hit sides on the break was ming numbing!
His style of play leaves so much to be desired and his lack of ability to 'change' things when not going to plan (if there ever was a plan in the first instance) is obvious!
Blackwell is arrogant, a bully and a liar. He has no time for the supporter and pays lip service to any problems that arise plus he toes the company line and does as McCabe instructs him to do!
Blackwell will stay at the Lane till they fail again and then blame everything and everybody else rather than take a long hard look at himself!

 

[Pinchy]

The answer to the 1st questiuon is that yes, he has done a good job. He turned us round and saved us from possible relegation and then almost got us promoted. The results speak for themselves. I thank him for taking us to where he has (at least the end of last season). I think he made the right decision to hand his notice in after the play off final. I believe his time is up and he won't take things further.

In answer to the second question I think he is underchaieving! Look at the qulaity of players that we have and look where we are. The division is fucking crap and we are still 7th. Yes, we had injuries, but the fact is that even during our purple patch we were still putting out teams that should have been hammering the shit opposition we face in this league. See my response to Lou.



Are you winding us up Lou??? You often come up with very interesting posts, so i'm not sure whether to take this one seriosuly. We are talking about a squad/team with Kyle Walker, Chris Morgan, Matthew Kilgallon, Nick Montygommery, James haper, Lee Williamson, Jamie Ward, Henri Camara, Steven Quinn, Darius Henderson and Ched Evans. All either proven premiership players, quality players or players with bags of potential.

It's ridiculous that we are 7th with the team that Blackwell has at his disposal. The fact that we can;'t beat Forrest, Leicester, Ipswich and Donny at home is unnaceptable. We then lose games to Leicester, Swansea, Coverntry, Blackpool and Scunthorpe. We are talking about shit, shit teams. Not one of these teams are actually really good.



I'd be dancing around my office kissing people if we got rid of that clown. Compensation? I'd pay them. i'm sure i can find enough posters on this forum to chip in and give QPR some incentive to take King Kevin away from us.

Micalijo, Pinchy, Torrix, Lou, Revolution, what do you say? Shall we chip in and stump up some cash for QPR to take Blackwell off our hands???!!

Put me down for a monkey!

 

[Fiery Blade]

Put me down for a monkey!

I'll match that and make him a flask and sandwiches for the trip down there! :thumbup:

 

[Big Mart]

Is Blackwell doing a remarkable job?

No!

He almost got us in the play-offs first season................he failed.

He almost got us promoted last season...............he failed.

He plays terrible football, he has an excuse for everything. He gets paid a fortune for almost delivering. He's a very lucky man.

:gallop:

 

[Ollessendro]

Our fans have high/unrealistic expectations - mostly the fans we picked up during the promotion/premiership season. I still see the core of the fans at away games and I'd think the majority are satisfied, if not enthusiastic, with Blackwell in charge.

Inflammatory comment if ever i've hear one!!? Not only that nut it is complete and utter rubbish!

I started watching United in 1992 and i think that we are underachieving under Blackwell. There are many that have been watchig United since way before me and think we should be doing better under Blackwell.

Here are a few reasons why we have 'unrealistic' expectations:

- Big crowds/good attendence
- Very talented bunch of players
- The Championship is fucking rubbish (look at dreeadful Forrest who are challenging for automatic promotion!?)

In terms of your away game comments then I don't think you can read into reactions. For example whenever I watch United games I always sing, shout, chher and get behind the lads. However I am deeply unsatisfied by the current situation at the club .... and particualry management. On top of this I have also seen deep disatisfacftion at away games. For example a few weeks ago at Loftus Road QPR were there for the taking. Blackwell opted for negativity and took the draw. A lot of fans were pissed off and showed there frustration at this. At the final whistle, rather than clapping the players off, many fans simply left because they were so disappointed.

 

[Grecian2000]

Put me down for a monkey!

Me too. I left it with Walthamstow earlier in the week, I'm sure he's taking good care of it.

 

[LouTheBlade]

It's the worst football I've seen at the lane by a long shot, well since I was going since 89. I'm not counting Heath btw

That said, you can't argue that he's not doing a good job. Having his hands tied, reducing the outgoings as well as keeping up a promotion challenge has to be admired, however difficult and cringeworthy it is to watch at times.

Our fans have high/unrealistic expectations - mostly the fans we picked up during the promotion/premiership season. I still see the core of the fans at away games and I'd think the majority are satisfied, if not enthusiastic, with Blackwell in charge.

Agree with some of that Wards but its definately not the worst football we've seen at the Lane. Anyone who thinks it is has a short memory.

 

[beightonblade]

Talk about panic mode ....................

cheap as chips is foo kin useless he shud never never have been appointed in the first place.

Remarkable job ? i can't believe he's still in a job ...... thats the remarkable bit !

 

[LouTheBlade]

February 14th 2008 - Kevin Blackwell takes over a team languishing in the bottom reaches of the Championship

May 2008 - United finish 9th missing out narrowly on a play-off place.

May 2009 - United finish 3rd in the Championship narrowly missing out on automatic promotion (lost in the playoff final to the better side).

January 15th 2009 - Currently sat 8th in the Championship table (a few points away from the playoffs) with half the season left, after being forced to sell the club's two most promising players and having a team desimated by injuries.

Record since Kevin Blackwell took charge;

Played: 72
Won: 35
Drawn: 17
Lost: 20
Win %: 48.61

What a terrible manager. If only we could have Bryan Robson back eh!

Stop talking rubbish!

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

If he doesn't get us promoted this season I'd still like him replaced.

 

[Ollessendro]

February 14th 2008 - Kevin Blackwell takes over a team languishing in the bottom reaches of the Championship

May 2008 - United finish 9th missing out narrowly on a play-off place.

May 2009 - United finish 3rd in the Championship narrowly missing out on automatic promotion (lost in the playoff final to the better side).

January 15th 2009 - Currently sat 8th in the Championship table (a few points away from the playoffs) with half the season left, after being forced to sell the club's two most promising players and having a team desimated by injuries.

Record since Kevin Blackwell took charge;

Played: 72
Won: 35
Drawn: 17
Lost: 20
Win %: 48.61

Woopie doo. We are stick in the Champsionship and going nowhere fast.

What a terrible manager. If only we could have Bryan Robson back eh!

Stop talking rubbish!

Whereas blackwell might not be a 'terrible' manager, you certainly can't call him a good one!

What has he ever achieved?

 

[davidpinder]

I don't believe that anyone is saying he has done a bad job the questions is has he took us as far as he can? He has a very good squad and i don't believe he is getting the best out of some of his players. I'd like to see a new face in the hot seat and i'd have no complaints if he moved upstairs, whether thats to do the cleaning is another matter.

 

[SotonBlade]

If he doesn't get us promoted this season I'd still like him replaced.

That hits the nail on the head for me. Blackwell has done a good job in my opinion, steadied the ship, forced to sell some very good players, an injury crisis like no other I can remember supporting the Blades. By the end of this season he will have had three cracks at getting us up, if he doesn't manage it this time round then i agree, it's time for someone else to have a go, and given the fact he handed in his notice after the Play-Off Final, i can see him doing the same again if we don't make it this time.

 

[Blade58]

Remarkable job? Absolutely not!

A decent job? Maybe!

Results wise, better than average

As a spectacle, overall, less than average.

All ifs and buts, but the 8 match run without a win definately knocked us back. Had we managed just average form in those games, we would be in the thick of the top 6.

 

[DazBlade88]

I think he's done a 'decent' job.

He did well in his first season, playing exactly how I think we should be playing. Having a go at teams, making them worry about us. And rightly so, as we had the strongest team in the league on paper in my eyes.

In his first full season, I still maintain he should have done better with the players at his disposal. We had a VERY strong squad on paper again, in an average league, and we should have been challenging for the top two the entire season. If it wasn't for such negative tactics early on in the season, we'd have gone up automatically. I think alot of people forget how bad we were last season up until March.

This season, he's doing as would be expected with a thin squad that lost a lot of quality over the summer. Hovering in the top half with a chance of making the play-offs if we hit a good run and don't lose more key players.

So for me, no, he hasn't done a remarkable job. Some good, some bad, alot of ugly. But he's not doing a bad job. Just mediocre.

 

[Blade58]

Wonder where blackie would appear in this DeLottie chart thingy? The one where Brian Laws has finished top regards league position relative to wage budget?

 

[Blade]

I think overall the job he has done is reasonable however I think there are many managers that would have been able to achieve more with the resources he's had whilst getting better performances and pleasing more fans.

I was happy with him (not overjoyed but happy) when signed initially on the basis that he knew our club, our ethos, the fan base and many players and I felt that he could make a more immediate impact than many other choices we could have made. At the time I felt this was an important consideration because we were on a slide and without results changing quickly there was a real threat of being pulled into a relegation battle, to get relegated for the second year running and the wage bill we had would have been a disaster.

He came in and played some entertaining, attacking and effective football. As has been mentioned we took the game to most teams we played and I think he took the approach that he didn't have much to lose. Realistically it was much more likely that a change at the helm from the woeful Robson would help us improve but we were unlikely to get promoted without a great set of results - a set of results you'd find very hard to achieve without trying to be dominant in games. I think the performances of Michael Tonge and David Cotterill in particular amongst others were key to us doing as well as we did in those few months.

He was then offered a contract after us nearly making the playoffs, again although I wouldn't say I was ecstatic I was fairly happy with this as at this point I think he more than deserved the chance and we could go on to build on those early months. There was undoubtedly a transformation in his mind over those summer months in terms of how he would approach games both in tactics and the way we'd play. The following season I believe we could have got more out of but we finished 3rd and on 80 pts with one of the best goal differences in the league by some way.

I do have qualms however with us offering Blackwell a new extended contract in December 2008 - this just didn't seem necessary coming only a short few months after taking the job given that we were 6th at the time, hardly setting the league on fire, at a time when players were being told they couldn't discuss a contract until the summer and without any other apparent interest in him from elsewhere. Let's not forget some of our close competitors throughout the 2008 -2009 season were teams like palace, preston, cardiff, burnley and QPR - I'd say that at the time ours was by far the better squad yet we remained within a few points of these teams for most of the season. It was only in the last 10 weeks of the season that we really stepped above the group of challengers for the playoffs and looked like we could play with the top two.

Overall I don't think you can knock his away performances as much as people have on this thread for last season at least - we produced a great away record going 15 games unbeaten whilst winning 9 of these. That's a cracking record no matter how we played and I don't think you can get it from being negative. The problem for Blackwell in that season for me is undoubtedly our home performances and results. They're the one's that get watched by 25,000 and in the main the ones that will get watched by the floating fans. Most of the 2008 - 09 season (and again this year) we've had to watch some pretty dismal football along with the realisation that Bramall Lane was certainly no longer a fortress by any means. Many teams came to the Lane and outplayed us and we let more than we should have walk away with points in my view:

Losses

Reading 0-2
Wolves 1-3
Burnley 2-3
Doncaster 0-1
Pigs 1-2

For these although I can accept Wolves as they walked the league (although weren't a million times better than us). I was disappointed to lose to burnley even though they got promoted at the end of the year and Reading, very unhappy to lose to Doncaster and distraught at losing to the unclean.

Draws:

Cardiff City 0-0
Coventry City 1-1
Southampton 0-0
Palace 2-2
Blackpool 2-2
Forest 0-0

For me we should be looking to beat all of these teams at home and although I can accept you can't always beat those you'd expect to I believe drawing against all 6 to be unsatisfactory. More than the points it is often the emotional influence that these results affects the most and I feel they along with this years continuation have helped to make the Lane a quieter and more impatient place.

Preston away and to some extent at home at the end of the season gave us a glimpse of the kind of performances we were capable of putting in with the resources we had but it is with regret I look back and see these as exceptions to the norm in the last 18 months with Blackwell in charge. On the whole it hasn't been pleasant and it's been even more frustrating knowing that our players are capable of more without seeing enough improvement over time to feel that we'll get there.

Onto this year and I think we've been getting average results along with a terrible run of results where we went 8 games without a win, losing 5 of those and conceding 19 goals. Yes this was aligned with a period where we saw a high number of injuries yet we still had a decent squad left to put out at this level and throughout this time there have been players like little and reid that Blackwell signed yet chose not to play throughout this period. I also can't agree with us not being able to fill a bench despite having a squad of around 25 first teamers and an entire academy squad to choose from. Also during this time we let players leave like cotterill and treacy which seemed very odd.

Results have picked up a little recently and there are signs that we can play better but I'm far from convinced that Blackwell could take us up, he's not good enough to take either of the top two positions and I struggle to see United getting promoted any time soon via the playoffs, especially more so with his own personal record and performances in big playoff games to date. Should we go up I don't think he's the man to keep us up or take us to another level either. I have built this opinion from over the last 2 years of Blackwell as a manager, it is unlikely to change drastically unless he either gets us looking like a decent team again and playing well or gets us out of this division.

I think it's important when considering the job he's done for us to consider his resources and although reducing he has had a relatively large wage bill available throughout his stay when compared alongside other teams at this level. Although he's inevitably had to let good players go after not bouncing back I still feel he's had the resources to shape a decent side able to compete with the big boys in this division. My suspicions are that he has agreed transfer deals in potentially worth £6m - £7m which at this level is a fairly substantial whack, considering there are teams like swansea, leicester, blackpool, doncaster, bristol, watford and palace near us in the table I think many fans are right in feeling we could ask for more, especially when these teams are on the whole watching better stuff than us.

I also think Blackwell made a foolish mistake to start the season with only three centre backs given that bromby was poor but then to let him leave without replacing him left us with only 2, I therefore hold no regard for his later excuses when it came to struggling with injury in this position. He chose to invest most of his transfer budget since being here on Henderson - a player with a poor track record for injuries and suspensions and one you could almost guarantee missing for 5 -10 games a season) and ched evans who he has struggled to settle into a working role whilst also signing players he's then later decided either aren't capable or worthy of an opportunity. These were decisions made and he should have lived with them when he ran into trouble rather than trying to make excuses every time he was asked a question about us, I think that didn't help unite the fans towards the backing to get out of the slump earlier but added to any apathy out there.

On the whole I think he's done an average job and will probably continue doing so, I hope if he stays with us he achieves more but I also aspire for more from United and feel we could do better with someone else in charge, I'd like to see someone come in and change the way we play and would be happy to give them time to do so. Seen as that isn't likely to happen unless we do suddenly get an investment of some kind then we're going to have to hope we continue to pick up like we have done recently only I hope this year we do it a bit earlier and give ourselves a real chance. I fear mediocrity, mid table and another two or three years of progressively becoming more average and pray to the good lord Zeus that we break from the disappointment that may bring.

:fishy: