CONFIRMED Jordan Hallam joins Scunthorpe

[Chali 2na]

How’s he going to become a lower PL defender playing for Ross County? If his performances attracted a big club who were prepared to pay a lot for him, we can exercise our buy back option, then sell him on to the big club.

Obviously I missed out the word 'standard' but nothing gets past you.

Can we exercise our buy back though? That's my question: What if Semple has no intention of rejoining, favouring to move straight to the bigger club?

Essentially I'm asking if the buy-back agreement is just with Ross County or with the club and player.

 

[BushBlade]

Obviously I missed out the word 'standard' but nothing gets past you.

Can we exercise our buy back though? That's my question: What if Semple has no intention of rejoining, favouring to move straight to the bigger club?

Essentially I'm asking if the buy-back agreement is just with Ross County or with the club and player.

It’s what I’ve just posted. We buy him back and immediately sell him on. So, for example, say our buy back fee is £500k and Celtic, Hearts and Aberdeen are interested in him. He wants to go to Celtic, who are prepared to pay £2m, to see off Hearts and Aberdeen.
We buy him back for £500k and then sell him straight to Celtic for £2m.

I think in practical terms (and I’m not 100% on this) I read that some Spanish clubs just buy out the buy back option from the other club, so Celtic would just buy our option. I could have misunderstood though.

 

[nopigfansintown]

In the last few seasons our academy has been pointless which I don’t like to see, surely we have players in our youth setup who could command fees otherwise what is the point when we certainly don’t play any of them due to the circumstances of our promotion challenge?

Don’t mention Brooks either as he was through Man City’s development.

Brooks was nobody before he came to Shirecliffe.On the scapheap actually, hoping for a second chance. Our academy is now more of a finishing school due to EPPP. I'd argue that the last few years of academy football are the most important. Sink or swim.See Ramsdale and Adams for other recent examples of this finishing school approach. There's a lot of lads that haven't worked out who we've signed in their mid teens, but we only take notice of the successful ones.Both Adams and Ramsdale spent time in the academy before being exposed to first team football, and then being subsequently sold. Maguires,Calvert Lewins, Walkers etc are going go be increasingly rare - they'll get whisked away by the Cat 1 academies when they're very young lads.To paraphrase Travis Binnion: "if you're not creating players or making money for the club, what are you doing?" The academy has made over 20 milion in the last three years - it's doing fine.

 

[Rob86]

It’s always disappointing to see young ‘talent’ go before getting a chance in the first team. I use inverted commas over talent because we are never that sure, but this lad certainly appeared better than most U23s,

I hoped he would feature and get a go, particularly with our ageing front line and lack of funds. In my mind it would have been a free go as opposed to Woodburn and Johnson for example.

Leeds have a few academy players in their current squad, so it can work.

I hope we have a buy back clause as opposed to a sell on clause for this lad. Can’t speak for the others but if he bangs in 15 (or impresses) in League 1 next season it’s a player we may want to bring back depending on the league we are in.

 

[finlaytheblade]

It’s always disappointing to see young ‘talent’ go before getting a chance in the first team. I use inverted commas over talent because we are never that sure, but this lad certainly appeared better than most U23s,

I hoped he would feature and get a go, particularly with our ageing front line and lack of funds. In my mind it would have been a free go as opposed to Woodburn and Johnson for example.

Leeds have a few academy players in their current squad, so it can work.

I hope we have a buy back clause as opposed to a sell on clause for this lad. Can’t speak for the others but if he bangs in 15 (or impresses) in League 1 next season it’s a player we may want to bring back depending on the league we are in.

I think we can take it as read United and Wilder will have every base covered with these free transfers,the club has put a lot into there development over the years so
in can become another revenue stream if these lads don't come back to us but move on again.

 

[snootyfenooty]

It’s what I’ve just posted. We buy him back and immediately sell him on. So, for example, say our buy back fee is £500k and Celtic, Hearts and Aberdeen are interested in him. He wants to go to Celtic, who are prepared to pay £2m, to see off Hearts and Aberdeen.
We buy him back for £500k and then sell him straight to Celtic for £2m.

I think in practical terms (and I’m not 100% on this) I read that some Spanish clubs just buy out the buy back option from the other club, so Celtic would just buy our option. I could have misunderstood though.

I would be interested to read one of these actual "buy-back" contracts. If you read the phrase literally it would imply that the initial selling club still has some kind of hold on the player in that they can, well, buy him back. If this was the case it would smack of third party ownership and FIFA would be on the club's back quicker than you could say Tevez.

As I said earlier and as you suggest it would seem to be more of financial transaction where the buy back fee is part of the consideration towards the sale fee. In other words its a dressed up sell-on. There is no way the club can recall or re-sign the player if its against his wishes.

 

[Redhead]

How’s he going to become a lower PL defender playing for Ross County? If his performances attracted a big club who were prepared to pay a lot for him, we can exercise our buy back option, then sell him on to the big club.

Well Ross County are top of the Scottish Championship. Looking a good bet to win promotion to the Scottish Premier league.
Then he has an excellent season playing Rangers,Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts etc.

Then he may move to a lower Championship side or top end league one club. Either of these win promotion and bingo.... a championship player minimum.

A lad called McKenna was at Ayr last year in the Scottish First Division on loan from Aberdeen. He has played half a season in the Scottish Premier League and is now wanted by Southampton, Fulham and WBA.

Thats how young players can become PL , Championship players from Scottish football.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Our Academy has been Category 2 for the last few years so that has made it harder to keep our most talented youth players if Category 1 Academies want to sign them.

Maybe the next Academy player who will make it in our 1st team will be a "Cast off" from a Category 1 Academy like David Brooks?

Norrington-Davies maybe?

We may not have been able to sign Brooks if we didn't have a decent academy with a good reputation. So, maybe that's another argument for keeping the academy, even though the ones we've brought through from an even younger age haven't been quite good enough for our senior team of late.

 

[Silent Blade]

Norrington-Davies maybe?
.

Swansea cast off

 

[BushBlade]

https://danielgeey.com/football-transfers-buy-back-clauses-explained/

https://thesetpieces.com/features/premier-league-clubs-avoid-buy-back-clauses/

 

[Redhead]

Sometimes I feel that some of our supporters think if a young player doesn’t make the grade with us ( which at present is a 99.9% certainty ) then their career is doomed or they are poor players.

Semple, Gilmour and Hallam will go on to earn a great living and forge good careers in football. Would have been great to have been with us but I bet they are buzzing to be starting their careers properly now.
Our club has produced more professionals in these 3 who will be known for coming through our academy.

I think Slater and Graham May go the same way to be honest. I hope I am wrong.

Tyler Smith and RND could have that extra to push on at the club.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

I think Slater and Graham May go the same way to be honest. I hope I am wrong.

https://teara.govt.nz/en/video/40884/graham-may-1974-commonwealth-games

 

[sheepbridge]

I would be interested to read one of these actual "buy-back" contracts. If you read the phrase literally it would imply that the initial selling club still has some kind of hold on the player in that they can, well, buy him back. If this was the case it would smack of third party ownership and FIFA would be on the club's back quicker than you could say Tevez.

As I said earlier and as you suggest it would seem to be more of financial transaction where the buy back fee is part of the consideration towards the sale fee. In other words its a dressed up sell-on. There is no way the club can recall or re-sign the player if its against his wishes.

This the bit I struggle to understand tbh. I can't see it being permissable for say Bournemouth to offer £5 million, but us to have 1st refusal at say £1 million, unless we have to then agree to pay the additional £4 million to match the bid, and what happens if the player decides he wants to go to Bournemouth anyway and earn 3 times the wages? I certainly don't think we could buy him back at a lower price and wages against his will simply to sell on again straight away.

 

[Redhead]

https://teara.govt.nz/en/video/40884/graham-may-1974-commonwealth-games

Now that’s funny.... well done

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Now that’s funny.... well done

There was a funnier video of him falling on his face after lifting but the link didn't work! It's worth a look!

Graham's under contract until 2020.
Could be a big few months for Slater, but he is a year younger than Gilmour, Semple and Hallam.

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

That said I do always enjoy the academy players - think there is something special about seeing someone come through the ranks.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Sometimes I feel that some of our supporters think if a young player doesn’t make the grade with us ( which at present is a 99.9% certainty ) then their career is doomed or they are poor players.

Semple, Gilmour and Hallam will go on to earn a great living and forge good careers in football. Would have been great to have been with us but I bet they are buzzing to be starting their careers properly now.
Our club has produced more professionals in these 3 who will be known for coming through our academy.

I think Slater and Graham May go the same way to be honest. I hope I am wrong.

Tyler Smith and RND could have that extra to push on at the club.

What's not to be forgotten is all 5 are Sheffield lads and would love to have made it at the lane.1or 2 may come back at some stage and be big players for us.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Why? Other clubs at the highest level of the game manage it.

So it's either a question of the players not being good enough, or the coaching/academy facilities not being up to scratch to develop these players (or both). I don't think either are true across the board, given our relative success at youth level.

Those clubs don't have category two academies at the cost of 1.5 million per year. Different rules, miles better facilities and different scales of investment. There isn't many cat two academies outperforming ours. Our owners wont provide a competitive transfer budget, so I have zero expectation of them moving us to category one status.

 

[robbiez666]

Correct me if I'm wrong but buy back clauses are useless if the player doesn't want to come back or can't agree personal terms?

 

[Chali 2na]

It’s what I’ve just posted. We buy him back and immediately sell him on. So, for example, say our buy back fee is £500k and Celtic, Hearts and Aberdeen are interested in him. He wants to go to Celtic, who are prepared to pay £2m, to see off Hearts and Aberdeen.
We buy him back for £500k and then sell him straight to Celtic for £2m.

I think in practical terms (and I’m not 100% on this) I read that some Spanish clubs just buy out the buy back option from the other club, so Celtic would just buy our option. I could have misunderstood though.

Thanks for posting links to the 2 articles above, very informative. The following quote answers my question:

"Should a buy-back provision be triggered, there is usually a contractual obligation to enforce the contract and transfer the player accordingly"

I guess I had mistaken a buy-back clause for a first refusal (at a pre-determined price) clause. I wasn't aware that the player is essentially obligated to re-join the selling club, should they want him.

Everyday's a school day

 

[SouthportBlade]

It's becoming increasingly rare to see youth players coming through, nailing down a place in the first team and going on to play 200+ games for a club, particularly top end Championship. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's far from the norm.

Unfortunately our progression over the last few weeks has years has made this even more unlikely. We are a top 4 Championship squad, which puts us between a rock and a hard place. Decent youth players (Semple, Hallam etc) clearly aren't good enough for our first team no one will argue with that. As much as we'd all love to see 'one of our own' tearing it up in the first team, these players aren't good enough. On the rare occasions we have a teenager who is genuinely good enough for the first team (Maguire, DCL, Brooks etc), the sad fact of the matter is that a Premier League team will inevitably look to buy them for their potential. And which teenager is going to turn down £30k+ a week. This is happening around us as well that Young Lad at Leeds will not be at Leeds in 12 months time. It's become the nature of the beast.

Now there's something to be said in keeping a player for a few years longer, as we did to an extent with Maguire. My view is we just have to enjoy and appreciate players like that whilst we have them.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

 

[Revolution]

Correct me if I'm wrong but buy back clauses are useless if the player doesn't want to come back or can't agree personal terms?

That is correct. The player cannot be compelled to sign even if such a clause exists.

 

[robbiez666]

That is correct. The player cannot be compelled to sign even if such a clause exists.

So, if say Hallam was worth 2 million but we had a buy back on him at 500k, we're still competing with the same clubs we would be for other players just that if he chose us it would cost us less?

 

[Revolution]

So, if say Hallam was worth 2 million but we had a buy back on him at 500k, we're still competing with the same clubs we would be for other players just that if he chose us it would cost us less?

It depends exactly what the clause says, but yes, I think that's correct.

 

[bertieblade]

Having a buy back clause ensures that any monies received by that club to which we have sold him which are over and above the buy back clause value will come to us.
In addition Sufc will not only have clauses built in to receive a percentage of any sell on fee but also a percentage of any subsequent fee

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Surprised that I’m able to say this almost a full 5 pages into the thread, but let me be the first to say GLTTL.

 

[Chali 2na]

That is correct. The player cannot be compelled to sign even if such a clause exists.

Have you read the rest of the thread?

 

[wizadry]

All three played a significant role in getting us out of a division we’d been stuck in for 5 seasons.



Not sure why you would discard Brooks. The poaching of unwanted players from other academies is part of our own strategy that has contributed towards our success. We made huge money on David Brooks by following that strategy, and also (going back some years) had first team players such as Michael Tonge and Phil Jagielka playing a large amount of first team games for us via other teams’ academies.

Naughton, Walker, Maguire, Slew, Brooks - have all been a success for us in different ways. For every one of them there’s probably 10 that don’t make it and a few that make it at a low level. I’m pretty sure the academy funds itself through these sorts of deals.

Why not? He was in our academy for a few years. One of the coaches said that when he came he wouldn't track back.
To suggest the club doesn't deserve any credit for the development of Brooks over 4 years is ridiculous.

Brooks was nobody before he came to Shirecliffe.On the scapheap actually, hoping for a second chance. Our academy is now more of a finishing school due to EPPP. I'd argue that the last few years of academy football are the most important. Sink or swim.See Ramsdale and Adams for other recent examples of this finishing school approach. There's a lot of lads that haven't worked out who we've signed in their mid teens, but we only take notice of the successful ones.Both Adams and Ramsdale spent time in the academy before being exposed to first team football, and then being subsequently sold. Maguires,Calvert Lewins, Walkers etc are going go be increasingly rare - they'll get whisked away by the Cat 1 academies when they're very young lads.To paraphrase Travis Binnion: "if you're not creating players or making money for the club, what are you doing?" The academy has made over 20 milion in the last three years - it's doing fine.

On reflection, my post was a tad harsh and not totally true, in other words it could be seen as a load of bollocks.

Good responses by the way.

 

[SteveBlade]

So much bollox.

We're third in the Championship. In order for us to get value from our youth players, we'd either have to play them or sell them.

They're not good enough to play for us, so we've sent them somewhere else. If they do well, we maybe buy them back.

If they don't impress they do whatever they want.

We've apparently covered ourselves financially, so who gives a shit? I can appreciate the fantasy where Wilder gives Jordan Hallam a chance and scores 30 goals a season for us but you're just imagining the best case scenario and slagging the club off about shit that's been created in your head.

Full of shit.