CONFIRMED Jordan Hallam joins Scunthorpe

[S64 Blade]

The further SUFC climb up the pecking order in the football league pyramid the more difficult it becomes for these youngsters to break through into our set up. Good luck to them as they try and carve out a career in football at whatever level they find themselves at.

Why? Other clubs at the highest level of the game manage it.

So it's either a question of the players not being good enough, or the coaching/academy facilities not being up to scratch to develop these players (or both). I don't think either are true across the board, given our relative success at youth level.

 

[BushBlade]

Anyone who watches youth games will tell you that every game is attended by scouts. None of these scouts have spotted anything in Gilmour, Semple, Hallam to make them think they are a PL or championship player in waiting. If they had, their club would have tried to sign them. Even after they’ve been out on loan.

They’re good lads who’ll probably make a living in the game and, with sufficient experience and dedication, may eventually play at a decent level, just like Whiteman and Reed May do.

Right now, they were in limbo, not considered good enough for the first team but too good to be playing u23s. Almost ‘academy blockers’ themselves if they’d have stayed with us, taking up spaces that could be filled by the next generation.

I don’t subscribe to ‘give ‘em a chance’. It’s not school sports day. Football is one of the most brutal and competitive industries and life is hard. Just to become a professional footballer is incredibly difficult and demanding. That they’ve been given pro contracts is a huge achievement and something to be very proud of.

This is the reality of youth football. Most wont make it.

We’d all love to see a ‘class of 92’ scenario, where four or five of our youth team go in to be top players for us and lead us to some kind of success but simply wishing for it won’t make it happen, and neither will overestimating the ability of our current youth players.

If Slater, RND and Smith make it through to our first team, three from one ‘crop’ of the current kids would be a great success. To expect us to bring through six or seven is bordering on fantasy.

And don’t expect us to get it right every time, no one does.

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

The further SUFC climb up the pecking order in the football league pyramid the more difficult it becomes for these youngsters to break through into our set up. Good luck to them as they try and carve out a career in football at whatever level they find themselves at.

Leeds seem to be bucking that trend at the moment although maybe that’s just they’ve a rich vein of talented youngsters all at once a bit like Manchester United did in the early 90’s. Other than Clarke can’t say I know enough about the others to judge.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Anyone who watches youth games will tell you that every game is attended by scouts. None of these scouts have spotted anything in Gilmour, Semple, Hallam to make them think they are a PL or championship player in waiting. If they had, their club would have tried to sign them. Even after they’ve been out on loan.

They’re good lads who’ll probably make a living in the game and, with sufficient experience and dedication, may eventually play at a decent level, just like Whiteman and Reed May do.

Right now, they were in limbo, not considered good enough for the first team but too good to be playing u23s. Almost ‘academy blockers’ themselves if they’d have stayed with us, taking up spaces that could be filled by the next generation.

I don’t subscribe to ‘give ‘em a chance’. It’s not school sports day. Football is one of the most brutal and competitive industries and life is hard. Just to become a professional footballer is incredibly difficult and demanding. That they’ve been given pro contracts is a huge achievement and something to be very proud of.

This is the reality of youth football. Most wont make it.

We’d all love to see a ‘class of 92’ scenario, where four or five of our youth team go in to be top players for us and lead us to some kind of success but simply wishing for it won’t make it happen, and neither will overestimating the ability of our current youth players.

If Slater, RND and Smith make it through to our first team, three from one ‘crop’ of the current kids would be a great success. To expect us to bring through six or seven is bordering on fantasy.

And don’t expect us to get it right every time, no one does.

Great post Bush blade you told it how it is at most clubs.Even your Chelsea s ,man city, man Utd to name just three don't pull that many through and they scour the world for young talent.Our academy is run really well and considering it's level 2 we have introduced some real quality to the premier league and EFL.

 

[BushBlade]

Great post Bush blade you told it how it is at most clubs.Even your Chelsea s ,man city, man Utd to name just three don't pull that many through and they scour the world for young talent.Our academy is run really well and considering it's level 2 we have introduced some real quality to the premier league and EFL.

I think that, of those, only Man U have a genuine desire to bring their kids through. Chelsea just farm young players like you farm cattle and Man City don’t appear to have a coherent policy. Kids who are interested in actually being a proper footballer and not just earning money are wising up to this and moving on, like Hudson-Odoi will be doing.

 

[iBlade.]

Why? Other clubs at the highest level of the game manage it.

So it's either a question of the players not being good enough, or the coaching/academy facilities not being up to scratch to develop these players (or both). I don't think either are true across the board, given our relative success at youth level.

You talk as if every academy player has the right to make it as a pro football player. The fact is that the VAST majority of academy graduates fail, even the graduates taken on by clubs at a much higher level. Incidentally the clubs at the top level tend to get the cream of the crop when it comes to picking up these kids who can be as young as 7 years old, but still most of them fail to make it at pro level.

Jordam Hallam while saddened at leaving SUFC will be happy with the fact that he still has a chance to progress at a pro level. I watch a lot of Northern Counties Football sponsored by Toolstation, the league is full of ex academy graduates who pick up a nominal to reasonable pay cheque for every game, most of them probably wouldn't be playing at that level had it not been for their academy experiences. Trust me, Jordan Hallam will be looking forward to the challenge.

 

[snootyfenooty]

People on here might slate these kind of deals but if someone like Hallam turns into a goal machine in a few years time and we're able to snaffle him back up for peanuts while other clubs are offering millions to get him then they’ll quickly change their tune.

Oh aye and the pigs will be flying as well. What happens if the player "expresses a desire" not to come back, or our chairman says "we can't hold him back" or worst of all he changes his agent who "manipulates him". Putting the baloney we've been fed from SUFC to one side for a minute, the only person who will be deciding who the player plays for next is the player himself. That kind of deal has got more holes in it than a Swiss cheese.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

You talk as if every academy player has the right to make it as a pro football player. The fact is that the VAST majority of academy graduates fail, even the graduates taken on by clubs at a much higher level. Incidentally the clubs at the top level tend to get the cream of the crop when it comes to picking up these kids who can be as young as 7 years old, but still most of them fail to make it at pro level.

Jordam Hallam while saddened at leaving SUFC will be happy with the fact that he still has a chance to progress at a pro level. I watch a lot of Northern Counties Football sponsored by Toolstation, the league is full of ex academy graduates who pick up a nominal to reasonable pay cheque for every game, most of them probably wouldn't be playing at that level had it not been for their academy experiences. Trust me, Jordan Hallam will be looking forward to the challenge.

Most shameless plug I've ever witnessed on here.

Mikita drillbit set only 9.99 this weekend?

 

[Chief_Froley]

Oh aye and the pigs will be flying as well. What happens if the player "expresses a desire" not to come back, or our chairman says "we can't hold him back" or worst of all he changes his agent who "manipulates him". Putting the baloney we've been fed from SUFC to one side for a minute, the only person who will be deciding who the player plays for next is the player himself. That kind of deal has got more holes in it than a Swiss cheese.

Or what if the player gets sold on, does bugger all and never plays again? Or how about if he goes and gets a career ending injury? Or how about the scenario where he never rises above the level he's currently at? Going off of the statistics for acadamy players who actually go on to play in any sort of a professional capacity (let alone the level we're aspiring to be at) I'd say my scenario is just as likely.

We have to deal with the here and now and Wilder clearly thanks he's not immediately ready for the first team. Whatever happens moving forward we'll be sensibly covered as we'll recoup costs in most foreseeable scenarios either through a sell on (he's good enough but doesnt want to come back) cheap buy back (he's good enough and wants to come back) or the initial fee (literally any of my points from the first paragraph).

 

[snootyfenooty]

Or what if the player gets sold on, does bugger all and never plays again? Or how about if he goes and gets a career ending injury? Or how about the scenario where he never rises above the level he's currently at? Going off of the statistics for acadamy players who actually go on to play in any sort of a professional capacity (let alone the level we're aspiring to be at) I'd say my scenario is just as likely.

We have to deal with the here and now and Wilder clearly thanks he's not immediately ready for the first team. Whatever happens moving forward we'll be sensibly covered as we'll recoup costs in most foreseeable scenarios either through a sell on (he's good enough but doesnt want to come back) cheap buy back (he's good enough and wants to come back) or the initial fee (literally any of my points from the first paragraph).

l don't know what you're on about there. I only made the point that if he turned into a "goal machine" as you put it, the last place he would be going to next would be us and there would be fuck all we could do about it, buy back clause or not. Yeah we'd get a sell-on but that's pretty standard for young players these days.

 

[S64 Blade]

You talk as if every academy player has the right to make it as a pro football player. The fact is that the VAST majority of academy graduates fail, even the graduates taken on by clubs at a much higher level. Incidentally the clubs at the top level tend to get the cream of the crop when it comes to picking up these kids who can be as young as 7 years old, but still most of them fail to make it at pro level.

Jordam Hallam while saddened at leaving SUFC will be happy with the fact that he still has a chance to progress at a pro level. I watch a lot of Northern Counties Football sponsored by Toolstation, the league is full of ex academy graduates who pick up a nominal to reasonable pay cheque for every game, most of them probably wouldn't be playing at that level had it not been for their academy experiences. Trust me, Jordan Hallam will be looking forward to the challenge.

Why do I talk that way? I said nothing in my response that suggested so whatsoever. All I said that clubs at the top level are able to make room for Academy graduates, if the right set up and pathways are there.

Your original quote was that it'd be harder, the further we make it up the football pyramid, to have a successful Academy, yet concede there's more chances of success, at top level clubs, in your third sentence, above.

 

[Chali 2na]

l don't know what you're on about there. I only made the point that if he turned into a "goal machine" as you put it, the last place he would be going to next would be us and there would be fuck all we could do about it, buy back clause or not. Yeah we'd get a sell-on but that's pretty standard for young players these days.

I've been wondering this since the news of Semple going broke:

Surely a buy-back is only any good if they actually want to come back? And if there good enough, we won't be their only suitor.

What happens if say Semple becomes a top championship (or lower PL even) defender, and we want to sign him back? Ross County will be obligated to accept the offer, but will Semple? Especially if there's bigger clubs, dangling bigger carrots...

 

[finlaytheblade]

l don't know what you're on about there. I only made the point that if he turned into a "goal machine" as you put it, the last place he would be going to next would be us and there would be fuck all we could do about it, buy back clause or not. Yeah we'd get a sell-on but that's pretty standard for young players these days.

So you are saying that Wilder is wrong move g young players on this way.Have you seen them play very often?.
Most of these lads have been with us from a very young age ,united may feel they ow them the opportunity to make a career if they don't make it with us.
These boys have got big ties with us ,if we offered to take them back at some stage they would probably jump at it
unless a team gazumped us offering more money.the bond built up over a number of years is worth something,only money and lots of it would supercede that.

 

[Chali 2na]

So you are saying that Wilder is wrong move g young players on this way.Have you seen them play very often?.

Doesnt look to me like that's what he's saying...

 

[snootyfenooty]

So you are saying that Wilder is wrong move g young players on this way.Have you seen them play very often?.

No, I didn't say that at all and the rest of your post is waffle. I said if he turned into a "goal machine" (not my words), United would not be at the front of the queue to sign him and the buy back clause would be a waste of time. If we are unable to hold on to good players through a primary contract then the chances of doing so under a secondary contract are even more remote. If you wish to debate this point, fine, if you're not then bother someone else.

 

[finlaytheblade]

No, I didn't say that at all and the rest of your post is waffle. I said if he turned into a "goal machine" (not my words), United would not be at the front of the queue to sign him and the buy back clause would be a waste of time. If we are unable to hold on to good players through a primary contract then the chances of doing so under a secondary contract are even more remote. If you wish to debate this point, fine, if you're not then bother someone else.

No debate necessary the issue revolves around Wilder and his coaching staff,they have to make these hard decisions and won't get them all right ,I do watch the development teams and it's disappointing when a young player who looks promising gets released.We are fans and not aware of the full reasons young players get released.
The way we are doing it with the ones who show some potential is happening more often now (other clubs do it too ) and the logic of it is plain to see.

 

[snootyfenooty]

I've been wondering this since the news of Semple going broke:

Surely a buy-back is only any good if they actually want to come back? And if there good enough, we won't be their only suitor.

What happens if say Semple becomes a top championship (or lower PL even) defender, and we want to sign him back? Ross County will be obligated to accept the offer, but will Semple? Especially if there's bigger clubs, dangling bigger carrots...

I think the way it would work would be to make an adjustment to the transfer fee, i.e. selling price minus buy back fee equals United's take. It makes it look like the initial selling club is calling the shots but they're not really, its just a sell-on in another form. Either way the player will be going to a club of his choosing.

 

[DazBlade88]

Confirmed - Jordan Hallam joins Scunthorpe.

https://www.sufc.co.uk/academy/news/2019/january/hallam-departs/

 

[Beans]

Is there anyone left?

 

[iBlade.]

Why do I talk that way? I said nothing in my response that suggested so whatsoever. All I said that clubs at the top level are able to make room for Academy graduates, if the right set up and pathways are there.

Your original quote was that it'd be harder, the further we make it up the football pyramid, to have a successful Academy, yet concede there's more chances of success, at top level clubs, in your third sentence, above.

Clubs at the top level only make room for academy graduates if the player shows very high potential, which believe you me, compared to the number of graduates that go through the system is very rare. I am pretty sure that most academy's have the correct pathway in place, including SUFC.

Also I didn't say the further up the pyramid we go the harder it would be to have a successful academy, I said harder for the academy graduate to break through into our set up.

 

[Chief_Froley]

l don't know what you're on about there. I only made the point that if he turned into a "goal machine" as you put it, the last place he would be going to next would be us and there would be fuck all we could do about it, buy back clause or not. Yeah we'd get a sell-on but that's pretty standard for young players these days.

Apologies, I was trying to make the point (albeit very poorly I must admit) that it is far more likely for a player to not make the cut at all than it is for him to get to such a level that he could turn us down in favour of a more lucrative move.

Yes there usually are sell on clauses in most deals for players but in deals like this they tend to be much more substantial. It will be the same with us and Kean Bryan. We obviously wont gain as much as we would from having all the fee but there are other benefits such not paying a players wages, recieving an up front fee and giving a player the maximum opportunity to develop through regular first team football. All while having first dibs at a good rate on a player should he live up to his potential.

 

[Ricky]

The next Billy Sharp?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Good move for Jordan that. I always loved watching him play. I often said he'd play League football. Partly because he's got more than one string in his bow. He's an excellent dead ball striker. Good with free kick shots on goal. Great crosser from corners or wide dead balls. Hope he gets a run....

 

[itsinyerblood]

It's time to question Wilder's policy for success, cue; does one exist? I mean, it wasn't that long ago that Scunthorpe were challenging for promotion with us, shoulder to shoulder, to escape from Division 1, yet here we are, with all the signs of a club on the cusp of achieving further success, yet Scunny are still lingering in Division 1.

Sometimes, focusing on the incidental matters can blind any of us to the magnitude of what we've achieved under Wilder. You'd think the man had no idea regarding his job and what it involved. Everything regarding transfers is a gamble, Wilder will know this, so the decision to part company with any player will be based on how important Wilder decides they are to the club. Based on that you'd think Wilder would have reached a decision that was right for the club?

 

[Redhead]

I will take Semple as my example.

At the moment he is far too good for u23s football but not a top end Championship player. After his first stint on professional football he will have been dreading coming back to play 23s football.
The chance came to join a club who will play him in the first team now, and with a better than good chance to play the likes of Rangers, Celtic, Hearts etc next season in front of 45k fans.

He will play professional football for a living every day and earn a very good salary for doing so. He is now forging a career for himself.

We now need players at the academy of a very very high standard. They do not come round every year. That is where we are at present.

The age group Semple GIlmour and Hallam are in will end up producing 6/7 professional players. That is why we are looked upon as a top academy.

Just because these lads are not deemed good enough for us, don’t think the academy has not done their job.

I've been wondering this since the news of Semple going broke:

Surely a buy-back is only any good if they actually want to come back? And if there good enough, we won't be their only suitor.

What happens if say Semple becomes a top championship (or lower PL even) defender, and we want to sign him back? Ross County will be obligated to accept the offer, but will Semple? Especially if there's bigger clubs, dangling bigger carrots...

The idea is that Sheffield UNited would have first option to talk to the player “ Semple” and make an offer and explain why they want him back.
Yes, Semple may not come back but we would have first chance to speak to the player.

CW also knows that with this particular age group these lads would probs crawl on broken glass to come back.

United are well covered on these players if they progress.

 

[robbiez666]

Unless our youngsters are asking to leave I still think this is foolish. Surely loaning them to the level they're going to is much more sensible? It's not like they're in big wages.

 

[BushBlade]

I've been wondering this since the news of Semple going broke:

Surely a buy-back is only any good if they actually want to come back? And if there good enough, we won't be their only suitor.

What happens if say Semple becomes a top championship (or lower PL even) defender, and we want to sign him back? Ross County will be obligated to accept the offer, but will Semple? Especially if there's bigger clubs, dangling bigger carrots...

How’s he going to become a lower PL defender playing for Ross County? If his performances attracted a big club who were prepared to pay a lot for him, we can exercise our buy back option, then sell him on to the big club.

 

[Silent Blade]

I will take Semple as my example.

At the moment he is far too good for u23s football but not a top end Championship player. After his first stint on professional football he will have been dreading coming back to play 23s football.
The chance came to join a club who will play him in the first team now, and with a better than good chance to play the likes of Rangers, Celtic, Hearts etc next season in front of 45k fans.

He will play professional football for a living every day and earn a very good salary for doing so. He is now forging a career for himself.

We now need players at the academy of a very very high standard. They do not come round every year. That is where we are at present.

The age group Semple GIlmour and Hallam are in will end up producing 6/7 professional players. That is why we are looked upon as a top academy.

Just because these lads are not deemed good enough for us, don’t think the academy has not done their job.

The idea is that Sheffield UNited would have first option to talk to the player “ Semple” and make an offer and explain why they want him back.
Yes, Semple may not come back but we would have first chance to speak to the player.

CW also knows that with this particular age group these lads would probs crawl on broken glass to come back.

United are well covered on these players if they progress.

Our Academy has been Category 2 for the last few years so that has made it harder to keep our most talented youth players if Category 1 Academies want to sign them.

Maybe the next Academy player who will make it in our 1st team will be a "Cast off" from a Category 1 Academy like David Brooks?

 

[Baw Heid]

A young player going on a loan deal is usually treated as back up to the contracted players. Callum Semple and Ty Smith were the exception as the loan clubs needed them and given the chance they took it. On a contract the players will not be guaranteed a place but will be treated the same as all the squad. I would bet that Jordan is not guaranteed a place but we hope their excellent grounding by our Academy coaches will ensure they take their chance when it comes. The clauses in the transactions are loaded in United's favour but the player does not need to agree but this group are Blades through and through and would return. Only thing is that they will sample the outside football world and it may not be in their interests to return. Its just a business and our Academies make money and help finance the first teams training facilities, its just a shame they don't get to play at their beloved Lane

 

[EddieColquhoun]

So it's either a question of the players not being good enough, or the coaching/academy facilities not being up to scratch to develop these players (or both). I don't think either are true across the board, given our relative success at youth level.

Walker, Maguire, Jags and Brooks developed under our coaching/facilities. I think it's fair to say that none of our current academy are good enough (at the moment) for a top Championship team.