Ownership developments

[Dellas Cowboys]

So if km was to gift 50% of his shares, he would only hold 25% making whoever was gifted 80% of the princes shares, the one that picks up the tab. Phew, easy this fucking over people malarkey in it.

I've got a £1

 

[Boxer Blade]

This is like listening /watching the brexit negotiations, it'll drag on and on and on with both sides sniping at each other, as with brexit I dont think it is going to end well, maybe a resignation is coming, and you know who I mean.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Isn't the manoeuvre where HRH has "gifted" a portion of his ownership from UTB to whoever controls UTB 2018 so they are no longer his allegedly.

Double whammy then. Can't see that working but this is the law we're talking about.

You'd have thought there would be a first offer clause on disposal or sale of shares ........

 

[Dellas Cowboys]

Double whammy then. Can't see that working but this is the law we're talking about.

You'd have thought there would be a first offer clause on disposal or sale of shares ........

that's the thing, I don't really have any idea whether HRH can get away with that in law, given it clearly wasn't what was intended under the original agreement.

perhaps that's not his intention though, maybe it's a bargaining ploy never intended to be seen through to conclusion.

 

[Grappler]

You're possibly correct, I wouldn't,couldn't argue against that.
Is the Prince sidestepping the purchase of the ground? Is that a separate issue?

At the end of the day, a Judge's interpretation will sort matters. There's no winner here unless they sell the club on almost immediately.

My worry is not about who wins but that we may not be at BL.

"...My worry is not about who wins but that we may not be at BL...."


I can't remember who told me this (actually I think I can, just not 100% sure), but I heard that the Prince wants to bring his uncle in on the deal, who is legit very rich (in other words, a real Billionaire), but that the Uncle only wants to come in, if we build a new stadium near where the Sheffield airport was, close to the Parkway and the link to the M1. Apparently some land has been identified. So in other words, the Prince doesn't actually need BDTBL.

This could all be utter bollocks of course, but we know that, in the modern era, having £100 million, or there abouts, just isn't enough these days. I don't know his uncle, or indeed which uncle it is, but the story was that he is seriously minted.

Anyway, it's a sad time for SUFC, two joint owners going to court.

 

[Fraggle Blade]

I still think this all comes down to the issue of the Prince not being bothered about owning the property at this time and McCabe wanting to offload the lot.

 

[Fraggle Blade]

Nothing in that document suggests we would be better off and it's already known Wilder was less than happy with what the Prince was doing last season, including new employees turning up out of the blue.
Nothing's certain in football but I wouldn't foresee Wilder staying if the Prince takes over and I wouldn't blame him if he walked.

Nothing in that document mentions anything about either of the possible owners future plans for the club if they get sole control.....so the document is irrelevant in that respect. McCabe might just sell us off to the first bidder, or keep us in austerity until he gets fed up or too old to care anymore for all we know.
Does it state anywhere that Wilder was less than happy with the Prince last season? I can't see him being too concerned over who the Prince appoints as his representative sitting on the board.

 

[DI36O]

There are four extremely experienced and highly paid Chancery Counsel supported by some very experienced and expensive support lawyers arguing the toss with each other in front of a Chancery Judge. None of them know it all and none can predict the outcome. Judge says he can't rule out that McCabe possibly has a case, but can't grant him what he wants now on an interim basis. Judge has said that both sides are as someone has already said on here, ladies front bottoms.

Its not simply about contract law though, there's a Company Act petition in there as well and just to confuse even further a counterclaim alleging lawful or unlawful means conspiracy which is an economic tort (civil wrong)

In summary this is how it works:-

Kev - We're going for it in January Penny Pinching Prince. Stump up.
PPP - What's this "we're" dirty dog?
Kev - FFS Not again
PPP - I put the money in DD and we go up, you serve a notice and I get lumbered paying a right wedge. Do one.
Kev - Here's my notice now PPP. I'll buy your shares for £5mill. That means you either take the £5mill and Fuck Off or you have to buy my shares for £5mill. Buying my shares makes you 100% owner and our deal says if you have 75% you have to pick up the tab for the assets of around £20mill and you ain't got that dough PPP. What's more even if you do have the dough, there's long leases at reduced rents so they are worthless to you. Snigger Snigger.
PPP - Ho Ho Ho DD, you didn't reckon on the wizardry of Mr Gianfranco "Mafioso" Syracuse my company lawyer who has helpfully set up this lovely Limited Liability Partnership which doesn't have to register because it isn't a limited company. I have out of the goodness of my own heart gifted this LLP (Wot is nuffink to do wiv me honest guv) 80% of my shares. By simple arithmetic DD I only got 20% of the shares, plus your 50%, makes 70%. That means I get you out for £5mill and I don't have to take the property assets.
Kev - You dirty sneaky conniving cunt. I'm not doing that deal.
PPP - I demand specific performance, which means DD that you have to sell to me for £5mill and that's the deal.
Kev - No way, you cheated, you and your devious lawyer agreed to do a deal to rook us out of millions. We counterclaim to make you do the original deal and for damages and if you just so happen to win on the specific performance damages amounting to what you have cheated us out of.
PPP - You can still do one DD Gotcha!
Kev - OK PPP you can have a Company Act petition as well for an adjudication from the Court that you're acting to the prejudice of the company and need removing, Kin snake.

Mr Justice Fancourt - Well PPP, tha's pulled a reyt stroke theer. Tha can see why Kev's got mardies on. Tha's a devious two hat, but tha cud gerra way wi it. Worra fucking mess, am not sorting this shit out for thi now. Either sort it artside wi di coats off or we'll be back here next summer for a trial and who knows which way it'll go. Will nobody think of the fans?

Thanks. Legal affairs and financial matters are my two weak points so assuming it's fairly accurate this helps a lot.

Sounds like they're both playing fast and loose with the club's fortunes.

 

[ucandomagic]

When somebody gives their home to their kids in order to reduce their assets, so they don’t have to pay their own Care Home fees, the State soon comes after them.

HRH has clearly done the same thing - but I guess that avoiding paying KMcC may not carry the same legal weight as avoiding paying HMG!

 

[WoodMillBlade]

fed up of all this rubbish.

The two should just lay down their intentions and then support Wilder.

The season will fast approach and I have a feeling the only activity in squad changes will be movements out and a loan in.

What a shame that after last season.

 

[Houston_Blade]

After all the piss taking out of Coventry over the last 2 years it appears we might be having to borrow Chesterfield's ground in the future.

Kev, one thing I've learned in the Middle East is that the Saudi's don't like losing, the Prince will not want to lose face on a business deal so this will go through the courts.

 

[finlaytheblade]

There must be some common ground to bring in a go between( ex director ),...from America.
Both parties surely don't want the club to slip back into league one.That would be a disaster with Wilder walking out along the way.
The fans won't tolerate such it and the club would go into melt down.
I personally want McCabe to win back the. Club,can we trust the prince ?.better going back to the McCabe family at least we can trust him to do what's right

 

[Bookers Mullet]

what an almighty mess, I really feel worried about this.
Why do we always, always manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?

 

[Blade56]

There must be some common ground to bring in a go between( ex director ),...from America.
Both parties surely don't want the club to slip back into league one.That would be a disaster with Wilder walking out along the way.
The fans won't tolerate such it and the club would go into melt down.
I personally want McCabe to win back the. Club,can we trust the prince ?.better going back to the McCabe family at least we can trust him to do what's right

Mediate and both walk away with a wedge then sell on to Chinese would appear to be a solution. But IF HRH really means to do something big with the club then as derekacorah says HRH will take it to the wire. That IMO will write off the next year, it's the Blades way. I've watch Blades for 60 years and fed up of this sh!t, please just sort it and let's go for it before I'm dispatched to the big top in the sky.

Nah, resigned to a season of uncertainty and unsettled fans/club . I need me pills.

 

[Muttley]

I'd sooner be rid of both of 'em. I don't want sneaky coniving cheats in charge of my club.

 

[metalblade]

I said it years ago when McCabe split the ground and academy from the football club that we could end up going down the same road as Rotherham United. HRH gets control of the team but McCabe holds on to the assets a bit like the Booths at Rotherham still owning Millmoor while the club under a new owners says fuck you your rent is too high we will build a new stadium down the road. Now then in the meantime where could United find a stadium not too far away capable of holding 25-30,000 fans. It is looking more and more like another monumental McCabe fuck up.

 

[Darlington82]

I said it years ago when McCabe split the ground and academy from the football club that we could end up going down the same road as Rotherham United. HRH gets control of the team but McCabe holds on to the assets a bit like the Booths at Rotherham still owning Millmoor while the club under a new owners says fuck you your rent is too high we will build a new stadium down the road. Now then in the meantime where could United find a stadium not too far away capable of holding 25-30,000 fans. It is looking more and more like another monumental McCabe fuck up.

I've been thinking the same, ever since McCabe made all the shares us fans bought worthless, then split the assets, he thought he was so clever, well he does not look so clever now. Hope us fans don't lose out again.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

"...My worry is not about who wins but that we may not be at BL...."


I can't remember who told me this (actually I think I can, just not 100% sure), but I heard that the Prince wants to bring his uncle in on the deal, who is legit very rich (in other words, a real Billionaire), but that the Uncle only wants to come in, if we build a new stadium near where the Sheffield airport was, close to the Parkway and the link to the M1. Apparently some land has been identified. So in other words, the Prince doesn't actually need BDTBL.

This could all be utter bollocks of course, but we know that, in the modern era, having £100 million, or there abouts, just isn't enough these days. I don't know his uncle, or indeed which uncle it is, but the story was that he is seriously minted.

Anyway, it's a sad time for SUFC, two joint owners going to court.

Yeah. No doubt his Uncle is also a Prince. They’re all Princes out there. No doubt he’s loaded too.

What you describe in terms of a ground move could be possible. It’s something I predict another Sheffield club will do in the future. The difference is, they need to because the current place is falling down, ours isn’t. But it would get the Prince out of having to pay rent to Rigsby McCabe wouldn’t it? And that might be an attractive option.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Having read the full court document, some things that should perhaps readjust our transfer expectations for this season:

• Wilder’s transfer budget, that he signed a new deal on the assumption of, was £2m to fund 5 players, with wages expected to increase by £4.9m. That should end any speculation that we’re looking for anything other than loan deals for the likes of Gallagher/Hogan
• McCabe was willing to provide cash via a loan, Abdullah via a gift. Neither would agree to the other method, and Abdullah in particular doesn’t view a cash injection as necessary now the Brooks cash is in.
• The Brooks deal, stated here, is £11.5m, split as usual into instalments, with £4m due this season (one of 3 instalments over the next 18 months)
• We’re due £600k this season in installments from previous sales
• The judge felt the need to emphasise to Abdullah that he’s wrong to characterise spending on new players as unnecessary!

 

[Muttley]

McCabe? Abdullah?

Call yersens Blades?

Grow up the pair 'o yer.

A PROPER Blade would never put the Club through the wringer like this!!!!!!!!!


I trust neither.

 

[Jonboy60]

Having read the full court document, some things that should perhaps readjust our transfer expectations for this season:

• Wilder’s transfer budget, that he signed a new deal on the assumption of, was £2m to fund 5 players, with wages expected to increase by £4.9m. That should end any speculation that we’re looking for anything other than loan deals for the likes of Gallagher/Hogan
• McCabe was willing to provide cash via a loan, Abdullah via a gift. Neither would agree to the other method, and Abdullah in particular doesn’t view a cash injection as necessary now the Brooks cash is in.
• The Brooks deal, stated here, is £11.5m, split as usual into instalments, with £4m due this season (one of 3 instalments over the next 18 months)
• We’re due £600k this season in installments from previous sales
• The judge felt the need to emphasise to Abdullah that he’s wrong to characterise spending on new players as unnecessary!

wish the judge would buy us, he talks more sense than the other two.

 

[Wards]

Yeah it’s piss poor from both of them. I can muster little more than a sigh for this season - usually the optimistic sort but I can’t see us pulling up any trees. Mid table mediocrity while this shit blows over would be ideal.

 

[BushBlade]

"...My worry is not about who wins but that we may not be at BL...."


I can't remember who told me this (actually I think I can, just not 100% sure), but I heard that the Prince wants to bring his uncle in on the deal, who is legit very rich (in other words, a real Billionaire), but that the Uncle only wants to come in, if we build a new stadium near where the Sheffield airport was, close to the Parkway and the link to the M1. Apparently some land has been identified. So in other words, the Prince doesn't actually need BDTBL.

This could all be utter bollocks of course, but we know that, in the modern era, having £100 million, or there abouts, just isn't enough these days. I don't know his uncle, or indeed which uncle it is, but the story was that he is seriously minted.

Anyway, it's a sad time for SUFC, two joint owners going to court.

So why doesn’t his Uncle buy KM’s share at the asking price and get on with buying the land? Obviously the Prince can’t afford to buy KM and build a new stadium. If his Uncle is a billionaire the money the Prince and KM are arguing about is chicken feed. Why wait another year? There doesn’t seem to be any sense or logic behind this.

 

[Maidenhead]

9.5/10

Would have been 10 but I like the bit where Justice Fancourt says PPP is a reckless dick for his behaviour over an external loan that needed paying a couple of months back.

8.5 out of 10.

20% of PPP's shareholding equates to 10% of the total shares.

UTB would only have 60% of the total shares not 70%.

Good effort though, and a good read too

 

[Maidenhead]

Double whammy then. Can't see that working but this is the law we're talking about.

You'd have thought there would be a first offer clause on disposal or sale of shares ........

Or at least some restriction on sale or transfer.

It just doesn't make sense that either party can dispose of any part of their holding without the knowledge or acquiescence of the other.

 

[Maidenhead]

I still think this all comes down to the issue of the Prince not being bothered about owning the property at this time and McCabe wanting to offload the lot.

The worry is, why wouldn't he want it?

Ownership would give him 100% security of tenure at a very reasinable cost, unless of course he doesn't see our future as being there.

 

[Bill puntin]

My take on things is that although McCabe is a very astute buisness man he is very naive in running a football club , a club he passionately loves, he trusted the prince to do what they talked about but didn't get all down legally, in my opinion the prince is jumping on this loophole to get the club on the cheap.

 

[Balham]

Having read the full court document, some things that should perhaps readjust our transfer expectations for this season:

• Wilder’s transfer budget, that he signed a new deal on the assumption of, was £2m to fund 5 players, with wages expected to increase by £4.9m. That should end any speculation that we’re looking for anything other than loan deals for the likes of Gallagher/Hogan
• McCabe was willing to provide cash via a loan, Abdullah via a gift. Neither would agree to the other method, and Abdullah in particular doesn’t view a cash injection as necessary now the Brooks cash is in.
• The Brooks deal, stated here, is £11.5m, split as usual into instalments, with £4m due this season (one of 3 instalments over the next 18 months)
• We’re due £600k this season in instalments from previous sales
• The judge felt the need to emphasise to Abdullah that he’s wrong to characterise spending on new players as unnecessary!

You're conflating cashflow with P&L (budget).

McCabe's view (supported by the "Business Managers") is that the operating cashflow requirements of the club between July 2018 and January 2019 is £10m. This allows £7m for transfers and wage bill increase in that period. The Prince's view is that the cashflow requirements are "only" £3m. Both assume that in the period £600k is received for transfer outgoings (we can probably assume that this includes the loan fees for Thomas, Heneghan and Carruthers).

The Brook's deal added £4m of cash into the club on July 1st and will, assuming the 18 month timescale is correct, add another chunk in January 2019 (probably £2.5m). That covers £6.5m of cashflow - enough to give Wilder a budget of £3.5m for fees and wages without any need for the owners to supply more funding (although what happens after January is anyone's guess). The drop from £7m to £3.5m is probably what is causing the Hogan/Gallagher deals to stall.

 

[JasonEllis]

This must be the only football forum that has (at least) two members who subscribe to Bailii.

You don't subscribe to Bailii, it is a database of public legal information? That was one of the reasons for it creation, to provide further access to judgments etc

 

[sheffielder]

You're conflating cashflow with P&L (budget).

McCabe's view (supported by the "Business Managers") is that the operating cashflow requirements of the club between July 2018 and January 2019 is £10m. This allows £7m for transfers and wage bill increase in that period. The Prince's view is that the cashflow requirements are "only" £3m. Both assume that in the period £600k is received for transfer outgoings (we can probably assume that this includes the loan fees for Thomas, Heneghan and Carruthers).

The Brook's deal added £4m of cash into the club on July 1st and will, assuming the 18 month timescale is correct, add another chunk in January 2019 (probably £2.5m). That covers £6.5m of cashflow - enough to give Wilder a budget of £3.5m for fees and wages without any need for the owners to supply more funding (although what happens after January is anyone's guess). The drop from £7m to £3.5m is probably what is causing the Hogan/Gallagher deals to stall.

So do you you think that the princes tactics will put this club championship future at risk?