U21 Futures v Hallam

[Chali 2na]

So why did we lose £5,842,996.00 in 2017 and £6,522,178.00 in 2016?

It doesn't get anywhere near breaking even.

If we must have losses then spend the losses on a No 9.

Are you asking why the club lost money? The academy didn't lose £5,842,996.00 in 2017 and £6,522,178.00 in 2016.

I don't know if you noticed, but this season Kyle Walker moved for £50m and Harry Maguire moved for £18m - we recieved a sell on for both academy products

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Are you asking why the club lost money? The academy didn't lose £5,842,996.00 in 2017 and £6,522,178.00 in 2016.

I don't know if you noticed, but this season Kyle Walker moved for £50m and Harry Maguire moved for £18m - we recieved a sell on for both academy products

And still lost money because we have to pay all the academy staff and all the players.

 

[bertieblade]

It’s ok grumpy there are no other costs applicable to running the Football club.
The academy is cash positive for at least the past five years due to the monies received for Walker and Maguire etc. regardless of monies made from other academy players and the fact that we have not had to purchase players like Regan Slater who make up the squad.
Do you honestly think that Brooks with his potential resale value would have joined us without having our academy to develop him.
Think it’s time to draw stumps and aadmit defeat

 

[Chali 2na]

And still lost money because we have to pay all the academy staff and all the players.

The academy staff and players cost £5/£6m a year?

At this point, I think I'm wasting my time: you're either trolling in me or you're incapable of understanding by the looks of things .

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

The academy staff and players cost £5/£6m a year?

At this point, I think I'm wasting my time: you're either trolling in me or you're incapable of understanding by the looks of things .

We just have a different point of view nowt to do with not understanding.

All talk of doing up the ground is a waste of time, people forget where the South stand left us.

The club play for points, nothing the academy or the ground do will gain us a single point.

Not an argument just a point of view.

If half the first team had come from the academy and there was four or five ready to step up I'd take a different stance.

At no time have we been near that.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Cheer up, Grumpy.

 

[I should coco]

So why did we lose £5,842,996.00 in 2017 and £6,522,178.00 in 2016?

Er.......maybe it might have the slightest teeniest weeniest bit to do with the first team squad wages?

 

[Chali 2na]

We just have a different point of view nowt to do with not understanding.

Its not a differing opinion at all mate. The academy being profitable is not a matter of opinion: it's a fact.

All talk of doing up the ground is a waste of time, people forget where the South stand left us.

What does the South stand have to do with the academy?

The club play for points, nothing the academy or the ground do will gain us a single point.

No, but it gains revenue, which is invested in players, which (generally) provides success on the pitch.

Not an argument just a point of view.

An incorrect point of view.

If half the first team had come from the academy and there was four or five ready to step up I'd take a different stance.

At no time have we been near that.

Again, this isn't the purpose of the academy, I don't know how else to explain this in a way you'll comprehended.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Its not a differing opinion at all mate. The academy being profitable is not a matter of opinion: it's a fact.



What does the South stand have to do with the academy?



No, but it gains revenue, which is invested in players, which (generally) provides success on the pitch.



An incorrect point of view.



Again, this isn't the purpose of the academy, I don't know how else to explain this in a way you'll comprehended.

If the first team isn't the final purpose of the academy as I've always said; what is the point of it?

 

[Chali 2na]

If the first team isn't the final purpose of the academy as I've always said; what is the point of it?

To make money, as I've said, twice.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

If the first team isn't the final purpose of the academy as I've always said; what is the point of it?

Because without an Academy & Age Group teams, you're not a Football Club, as I've said, twice

 

[BushBlade]

To make money, as I've said, twice.

It's both but while we were in L1 we couldn't hold onto players for long so we lost Maguire. If he'd have come through now either he'd stay a bit longer or we'd have got big money for him.

But the days of having four or five players from the academy have long gone for the majority of clubs. Players tend to be either not quite good enough, or too good. Even at Spurs they don't have many home grown players in their side, despite having a great academy. But if you add up the money they've received from the sales of Mason, Livermore and a few more you can see it's been beneficial to them.

As it will for us, for as long as we can keep producing players because instead of selling them for £2m, we'll be looking at £5m+, and being able to have them in the team for a couple of seasons before they leave.

It's clearly not cost us anything over the last few years as we've brought in a lot of money from sales and as Phil had said, it's part of the connection between the club and the community. If we don't have that connection, we may as well be a franchise with the name Sheffield in it. If the club stops representing the area that I'm from, I can't see the point in supporting them, I may as well go down the road and watch Chelsea.

 

[Chali 2na]

It's both but while we were in L1 we couldn't hold onto players for long so we lost Maguire. If he'd have come through now either he'd stay a bit longer or we'd have got big money for him.

But the days of having four or five players from the academy have long gone for the majority of clubs. Players tend to be either not quite good enough, or too good. Even at Spurs they don't have many home grown players in their side, despite having a great academy. But if you add up the money they've received from the sales of Mason, Livermore and a few more you can see it's been beneficial to them.

As it will for us, for as long as we can keep producing players because instead of selling them for £2m, we'll be looking at £5m+, and being able to have them in the team for a couple of seasons before they leave.

It's clearly not cost us anything over the last few years as we've brought in a lot of money from sales and as Phil had said, it's part of the connection between the club and the community. If we don't have that connection, we may as well be a franchise with the name Sheffield in it. If the club stops representing the area that I'm from, I can't see the point in supporting them, I may as well go down the road and watch Chelsea.

Yes, you're right Bush, I wasn't saying the academy's sole purpose was to make money, I was just trying to keep my post short and easy to read so GRUMPY BLADE could follow it.

 

[1889]

Sheffield United academy were ranked 8th in Europe, in regard to most minutes played in the Premier League, by academy products. That is a statistic that every supporter should be proud of.

Most games at Shirecliffe are attended by Premier League scouts, Uniteds academy has a great reputation in football. As the first team progresses, then we will see the long term benefits of it in our team, until we reach the top level, we will continue to see those benefits in monetary terms.

But for GRUMPY BLADE or anyone else, to say it's a waste of time is just ridiculous and in regard to the academy never earning us a single point, off the top of my head, the three we got at Leeds this season were wholly due to the academy and I'm sure there have been many more.

When footballers are changing hands for £60 to £100 million, to even try to compete, you either have to have a huge bankroll or a top notch academy, at least we have one of the two

 

[BushBlade]

Sheffield United academy were ranked 8th in Europe, in regard to most minutes played in the Premier League, by academy products. That is a statistic that every supporter should be proud of.

Most games at Shirecliffe are attended by Premier League scouts, Uniteds academy has a great reputation in football. As the first team progresses, then we will see the long term benefits of it in our team, until we reach the top level, we will continue to see those benefits in monetary terms.

But for GRUMPY BLADE or anyone else, to say it's a waste of time is just ridiculous and in regard to the academy never earning us a single point, off the top of my head, the three we got at Leeds this season were wholly due to the academy and I'm sure there have been many more.

When footballers are changing hands for £60 to £100 million, to even try to compete, you either have to have a huge bankroll or a top notch academy, at least we have one of the two

In simple terms, the return on the investment we've made in the academy helped turn us from a slightly better than average L1 side into a promotion winning team, and from a good L1 team to a good championship side.
The money we've received for DCL, Walker and Maguire has been very helpful over the last two seasons.
One decent player every two years will more than cover the cost.

 

[I should coco]

Players tend to be either not quite good enough, or too good.

Why did we get one of those Goldilocks Academys?

Do they still do the Jack and the Giant Moneytree Stalk version?

 

[BushBlade]

Why did we get one of those Goldilocks Academys?

Do they still do the Jack and the Giant Moneytree Stalk version?

Liquid lunch?

 

[I should coco]

Liquid lunch?

No, but a very liquid tea on the cards.

Probably somewhere in your old stomping ground . Hallamshire, Closed Shop or Blake all have excellent ale and as it's a lovely sunny afternoon the dogs will get a longer drag than usual.

Cocktails in Jakarta or lager top in Shepherd's Bush?

 

[BushBlade]

No, but a very liquid tea on the cards.

Probably somewhere in your old stomping ground . Hallamshire, Closed Shop or Blake all have excellent ale and as it's a lovely sunny afternoon the dogs will get a longer drag than usual.

Cocktails in Jakarta or lager top in Shepherd's Bush?

Neither, sat at home sneezing, feeling sick and wishing I'd had the fucking flu jab last autumn.

 

[Dutch Blade]

Every player has ambitions, even when they are 15/16. If you play in an L1 academy you wanna go up to a higher one, even when you don't have the grow options as in the L1 one. Now we're in the Championsship it's more attractive to stay, especially if you can show them a route to the first team.

Obviously talents like Walker will leave anyway, because their potential is much higher then Champonsship. But I do believe that there are enough guys in the academy who can become solid Championsship players. So the time to INVEST in the youth academy is now. The club is growing and there is a headcoach with a clear vision.

For the guy who said youth academy is a waste of money: You can't lose money on your academy on the long term. Never.

 

[8lade]

Let's be right about Maguire we had 4 seasons out of him and in not so many words he said he needed a greater challenge than the third tier, had we been promoted he would (I'm sure) have stayed. We didn't, he left for decent money and a sell on clause (ok nothing like the money floating around now but good for the time) nobody can complain about Maguire unless it's how he gets enough loyalty points for our top games.

 

[BushBlade]

Let's be right about Maguire we had 4 seasons out of him and in not so many words he said he needed a greater challenge than the third tier, had we been promoted he would (I'm sure) have stayed. We didn't, he left for decent money and a sell on clause (ok nothing like the money floating around now but good for the time) nobody can complain about Maguire unless it's how he gets enough loyalty points for our top games.

I wouldn't knock Maguire. He moved at the right time for him. I said it at the time. He'd learnt all he could at L1 level and had the opportunity to train with some good defenders and learn from them, then went out on loan to the championship before getting into the Hull side as they went up and playing at the top level. It's worked out very well for him, even better than I expected tbf. I wouldn't be surprised if he captains England.

 

[8lade]

I think most of us agree he was good enough for the Prem but he's exceeded those expectations, did anybody think he'd make the national side? Not me but I think it's well earned so far.