safe standing

[SwissBlade]

That's the kind of thinking that halts progress on the issue.

We have some idiots, yes. But standing doesn't cause idiocy. Idiocy causes idiocy.

I stand for 90 minutes at every home game, as does everyone around me. Fair few kids and teen lads back there. Never any bother where I am.

I don’t see it as progress.

 

[GaryHamsonsLeftBootLace]

When we sell Brooks to Man Utd for £50m in July, we should of course use most of the money to start to build our side to compete in that season's Premier League, but I think the club should make a gesture to reward it's "magnificent fans" by spending a few mil on finally ripping down the Kop and rebuilding a stand to be proud of. Remove the posts, build it higher, make the top third safe standing, fill in the only remaining open corner and provide some decent concourse facilities. Fund it with more offices, shops, bars and executive boxes and stuff as the S2 area seems to be an upcoming area so wouldn't have any problem filling these outlets.

 

[BushBlade]

There's some bloke on TalkSport from the company that installed Celtic's safe standing and he reckons it will be in the PL soon, that a lot of clubs are interested.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

There's some bloke on TalkSport from the company that installed Celtic's safe standing and he reckons it will be in the PL soon, that a lot of clubs are interested.

While I’d like the pillars to come out of the Kop asap, a benefit of us holding off from any work on this would be hopefully some movement on rail seating. It would be frustrating to renovate the Kop only for this to be introduced a year or two later.

 

[BushBlade]

While I’d like the pillars to come out of the Kop asap, a benefit of us holding off from any work on this would be hopefully some movement on rail seating. It would be frustrating to renovate the Kop only for this to be introduced a year or two later.

Yeah we need to have a contingency plan for this. The PL must be aware that whilst there's a solid argument that it's more exciting football than the Bundesliga, it doesn't compare when it comes to atmosphere. And they'll be aware that part of the appeal to the foreign markets is the big crowds and decent atmosphere (compared with say, Serie A where you get empty stands and very few away fans if it's not a derby). Improving the atmosphere will cement the PL as the league to watch and make sure they continue to get good money for the foreign TV rights.

So it will probably happen.

 

[Ricky]

Let's just hope they do it right if it does go ahead.

If standing areas made up 10% of stadium capacities it would make things worse. Especially if everyone in seated areas was forced to sit down at all times. It would have to make up 25% of the capacity at the very least to be worthwhile.

It would be a far more practical solution to just keep things as they are with seated areas being made official standing areas. Basically as it is now up and down the country - just official. But that would be too sensible wouldn't it.
What safety issues arise from standing in seated areas? Tripping over or scraping your shins on the seat in front? Has there been a single serious incident? No doubt rail standing bays are more ideal but not enough so to justify significant cost and reconstruction - especially if it actually reduces capacity.

It would also allow greater flexibility if we just stuck with the seating. Seating areas could become designated standing areas at the drop of a hat. Continuous adjustment is possible. Once strict standing and seating areas are installed you have no such flexibility.

What if a club install standing bays that make up 10% of the capacity only for it to become obvious there's demand for 40% of the capacity to be standing? Do they crack on with rebuilding half the stadium?
If it remains all seated with simple designated standing areas, nothing would need to be done.

 

[PokerBlade]

I have limited experience of standing on terraces (obviously been to away games where if you want to see anything you have to stand) and I do wonder if the association of standing with better atmosphere will pan out. I wonder if there were a lot more elements to the atmosphere people remember than merely the seating requirements, and if safe standing comes in that people will realise that's not all that's missing.

I'm happy to try. The safe standing you see in other countries is quite clearly meeting the safety standards required and, if there's demand for it, that's incentive enough.

The big problem never talked about is how many people stand at football games. Clubs don't want to talk about it because they're only inviting legal trouble for themselves by saying "We don't enforce our legal obligation to ban standing", but we all know that the authorities from the club to the stewards to the officers on duty at the match know it would be far more dangerous to instigate trouble by trying to eject people at the back of the Kop than to let them get on with it. It's unenforceable and so other standards should be set.

 

[Kenilworth]

I think it will only bring us a world of problems that we don’t need.

If it’s at the back of the kop then it won’t affect the rest of the ground too much as people just stand there anyway.

But given that our fans can’t behave themselves at the best of times I don’t see this helping anything but increasing the number of banning orders

Boooooooooo!

You and BornOnShoreham can sit on the sidelines with a blanket over yer legs but us young un's want to stand and cheer and sing the Blades on.

Stand up if you hate the seats
Stand up ...

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Boooooooooo!

You and BornOnShoreham can sit on the sidelines with a blanket over yer legs but us young un's want to stand and cheer and sing the Blades on.

Stand up if you hate the seats
Stand up ...

We Hate Sitters!
We Hate Sitters!

Sorry, sitwell.

 

[Booker4]

There's some bloke on TalkSport from the company that installed Celtic's safe standing and he reckons it will be in the PL soon, that a lot of clubs are interested.

Hoping the law changes soon so we can do the new Kop in safe standing. How quality would that be!

 

[BushBlade]

Hoping the law changes soon so we can do the new Kop in safe standing. How quality would that be!

Personally I'm starting to prefer being sat down but if it helps creates a better atmosphere I'm all for it.

 

[sitwell]

Everyone stands at away games anyway ,but after the Burton experience ,Im a sitter ,its a no from me.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Unless you are on the first few front rows at an away match, you have to stand up or you wouldn't see anything as most folks are stood up anyway.

I think standing up in a seating area is potentially more dangerous than standing up in a standing area. So, I'd welcome safe standing areas for those who insist on standing up. But the deal would be, if it's a seating area, then sit the f*ck down will yer? Oh yes, and no sitting in the standing areas either!

 

[Ricky]

The only safety issue when standing in seated areas is when the top of the seat in front is low, especially on steep stands.

But the same issue exists there even if people are generally sitting down. Everyone stands at some point. You stand to celebrate goals. You stand to walk along the row, often squeezing through a tight space where you can lose balance and trip.

In these places, and possibly all seated areas designated as standing areas, couldn't rails simply be installed at a suitable height along the back of the row of seats in front? More practical, more flexible.

 

[sitwell]

The only safety issue when standing in seated areas is when the top of the seat in front is low, especially on steep stands.

But the same issue exists there even if people are generally sitting down. Everyone stands at some point. You stand to celebrate goals. You stand to walk along the row, often squeezing through a tight space where you can lose balance and trip.

In these places, and possibly all seated areas designated as standing areas, couldn't rails simply be installed at a suitable height along the back of the row of seats in front? More practical, more flexible.

More money

 

[Ricky]

More money

It wouldn't cost as much as installing the proposed standing bays. It would be a cheap and simple adjustment in comparison.

 

[Harry's Game]

In these places, and possibly all seated areas designated as standing areas, couldn't rails simply be installed at a suitable height along the back of the row of seats in front? More practical, more flexible.

That’s basically what rail l seating is..

 

[Ricky]

That’s basically what rail l seating is..

What I'm suggesting is one single rail all the away across the block, without being fixed to each individual seat.

Aren't there also other adjustments to be made to create the rail seating areas, mainly regarding space?

 

[penthouseblade]

Everyone stands at away games anyway ,but after the Burton experience ,Im a sitter ,its a no from me.

What happened at Burton?

 

[Harry's Game]

What I'm suggesting is one single rail all the away across the block, without being fixed to each individual seat.

Aren't there also other adjustments to be made to create the rail seating areas, mainly regarding space?

But if the back of the Kop is going to be redeveloped, that’s the place to do it and do it properly, rail seating could be put in without the need to wait for any legislation changes, and when it does go though to allow safe standing, which I believe it now will, The work is already half done.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

How about non-slip bath mats and handrails too? And a recorded warning that plays constantly on a loop to remind us that surfaces may be slippery when wet? Can’t be too careful y’know?

 

[Dnblade]

Sports Minister says No to West Brom on Standing area...not looking like there's going to be much progress anytime soon.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43701400

 

[Sheffsteel]

It’s a real shame and lacks total logic.

I’ve challenged plenty of people to put forward a good objective reason why safe standing shouldn’t be implemented
And no one has been able to put forward a credible argument apart from the “if it ain’t broke then it doesn’t need fixing”.

We’re all different with different preferences and choices, so fans should be given choice.

It seems like discrimination towards English football fans in the top 2 divisions.
For a club in the other divisions, somehow it mysteriously becomes safe again.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Bit left field I know but how about spending the money on the team?

 

[Sean Thornton]

It’s a real shame and lacks total logic.

I’ve challenged plenty of people to put forward a good objective reason why safe standing shouldn’t be implemented
And no one has been able to put forward a credible argument apart from the “if it ain’t broke then it doesn’t need fixing”.

We’re all different with different preferences and choices, so fans should be given choice.

It seems like discrimination towards English football fans in the top 2 divisions.
For a club in the other divisions, somehow it mysteriously becomes safe again.

Cost?

Less people in attendance could mean more safe?

 

[Sheffsteel]

The telling thing for me is that the government haven’t given a reason to refuse West Broms request to trial 3000 safe standing seats.

The reason is that whatever reason they give would be up to be ridiculed. So it will be hilarious if the government are forced to give their reasons. The fact is there is no rational reason to not implement safe standing.

Remember safe standing isn’t compulsory
People who want to sit can continue to sit, everyone gets what they want, freedom of choice.

Agree with Sean, cost is a factor because I understand converting a seat costs £1000 per seat, so it’s expensive.
Obviously a club would want a return on their investment.
I understand in Germany there’s a 1 to 1.8 ratio, so safe standing significantly increases the capacity of a stand.
However I think in England the initial intentions are for a 1 to 1 ratio, so no actual increase in capacity.
So can’t see how clubs will make any money, certainly can’t see a reduction in prices.

My guess is that the 1 to 1 ratio would be a trial, then if successful they gradually increase it to a 1 to 1.5 ratio. So there would be an increase in stadium capacities eventually.

 

[Rodley]

Cost?

Less people in attendance could mean more safe?

The average age of crowds is getting older and older, atmosphere is dead, it’s been safely implemented in the bundesliga 1 and 2 and worked at Celtic which is home to one of the fiercely contested derbies in the UK.

Seriously can’t see why people object to it. It’s about 5,000 seats out of 30,000. Pick one of the 25,000 if you don’t fancy standing.

 

[Rodley]

The telling thing for me is that the government haven’t given a reason to refuse West Broms request to trial 3000 safe standing seats.

The reason is that whatever reason they give would be up to be ridiculed.
The fact is there is no rational reason to not implement safe standing.

Remember safe standing isn’t compulsory
People who want to sit can continue to sit, everyone gets what they want, freedom of choice.

Agree with Sean costs is a factor because I understand converting a seat costs £1000 per seat, so it’s expensive.
Obviously a club would want a return on their investment.
I understand in Germany there’s a 1 to 1.8 ratio, so safe standing significantly increases the capacity of a stand.
However I think in England the initial intentions are for a 1 to 1 ratio, so no actual increase in capacity.
So can’t see how clubs will make any money, certainly can’t see a reduction in prices.

My guess is that the 1 to 1 ratio would be a trial, then if successful they increase it to a 1 to 1.5 ratio.
So there would be an increase in stadium capacities eventually.

Just crack on with it. I’d rather spend money on that and improve the stadium experience than Jordan Rhodes.

 

[Sean Thornton]

The average age of crowds is getting older and older, atmosphere is dead, it’s been safely implemented in the bundesliga 1 and 2 and worked at Celtic which is home to one of the fiercely contested derbies in the UK.

Seriously can’t see why people object to it. It’s about 5,000 seats out of 30,000. Pick one of the 25,000 if you don’t fancy standing.

I've not so much objected to it other than on the basis of cost.

 

[Davalon]

There's much hypocrisy over this from the authorities for me.