Blades should give thanks to the McCabes

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You query what's said but come up with nothing save your Nixonesque "McCabe is not a crook" comments.

The difference is, Nixon was a crook. All evidence was there to prove it.

People on here say 'he's fucking pocketing it'. I disagree entirely. He's hardly doing that. He's a businessman and knows the margins he has to fulfil to protect his investment, and you and I know, it has been at a loss. The last six seasons are testament to that. I don't blame him either, if he has put in what he says he has put in.

As before, my problem is his dis-ingenuity. Soundbites like 'GCI' and Think Liverpool and Investment Next Season come from his boardroom, and people (like me) don't forget them, especially when we expect Clough to sign a decent centre forward for the upcoming new season and we get fucking Higdon on an undisclosed. Especially when suddenly key players are sold (again, undisclosed) without so much as an agent getting involved and torpedoing the deal on our behalf. Back then, it spelled out a club in deep shit sans paddle, and on the pitch we had a back four even I could have put ninety minutes in and amongst and shipped less goals. And still the soundbites came and we bought a pitch.

That's my problem.

pommpey
 

The difference is, Nixon was a crook. All evidence was there to prove it.

People on here say 'he's fucking pocketing it'. I disagree entirely. He's hardly doing that. He's a businessman and knows the margins he has to fulfil to protect his investment, and you and I know, it has been at a loss. The last six seasons are testament to that. I don't blame him either, if he has put in what he says he has put in.

As before, my problem is his dis-ingenuity. Soundbites like 'GCI' and Think Liverpool and Investment Next Season come from his boardroom, and people (like me) don't forget them, especially when we expect Clough to sign a decent centre forward for the upcoming new season and we get fucking Higdon on an undisclosed. Especially when suddenly key players are sold (again, undisclosed) without so much as an agent getting involved and torpedoing the deal on our behalf. Back then, it spelled out a club in deep shit sans paddle, and on the pitch we had a back four even I could have put ninety minutes in and amongst and shipped less goals. And still the soundbites came and we bought a pitch.

That's my problem.

pommpey


I doubt anyone disagrees with most of that (Save "think Liverpool" which you've clearly forgotten as he didn't say it) bad decisions, poor sound bites are clearly undisputed facts but why do we have to relive them every single day, especially now we a league higher and currently doing okay?

Surely the main gripe now is the additional investment? But no, Robson etc etc is trotted out non stop. Then there's the fuckwits banging on about the hotel - loss making - overseas ventures , him taking money out, when they clearly know absolutely nothing about what's gone on but hang on to the coat tails of people who can't bring themselves to actually check out the figures.

Did you look again at the£41m I quoted? Can you bring yourself to accept it - we all know why it's gone so no need to revisit - or even query it?
 
Only daft cunt who didn't complain was Kev.

Even Blunket could see it was wrong.

Overall though he has always had SUFC in his best interests.

Just wish sometimes someone else had made some of his decisions.
A simple call to Grumpy would have sufficed. :rolleyes:
Maybe a case of McCabe being a bit too clever for his own good?
I thought that one quite serious reason for going for Robson was to exploit his connections with Man U and Ferguson.
Which admittedly didn't really come about. :(
 
"Kevin McCabe is magic, he has a magic catch
If you throw a quid at him, you'll not get the fker back"

:D
 
Did you look again at the£41m I quoted? Can you bring yourself to accept it - we all know why it's gone so no need to revisit - or even query it?

Yeah - I have accepted he has put money in. £1m, £20m, £41m ... whatever.

There's no doubt he's protecting money already inextricably ploughed into a loss making venture, Sean. As said ... I don't blame him. He knows the strategy and situation better than we do and knows what it will cost to fuck off and set fire to the project. Which is why it costs him less to keep pumping varied amounts of cash in to prevent total collapse and liquidation. Here's my point:

Rather than 'he's saved our club', it's more 'he's kept the club afloat and his sizeable investment alive by moderating his input and generating output from the club itself' (by selling players, mainly).

No one really has the right to blanket this and lay out the palm leaves whilst McCabe rides into the Cherry Street car park atop a donkey. Sure, we may have struggled without him. I acknowledge that. But lets not steer this well reasoned debate away from some clear thinking about the fuck ups McCabe has made (Desso vs back four I think is one) with evangelical genuflecting just because he has finally lucked out with a manager who is possibly the best thing to happen to us since Harry Bassett. The journey to Wilder itself has been bestrewn with fresh, sloppy dog turds which all Blades fans have had to put their bare feet in and moreso those bloody fine people who buy season tickets and turn up home and away every fucking time. If I were a resident of Sheffield, I would, genuinely, be a season ticket holder but even my buddies who are have their resolve seriously tested when we capitulate to Shrewsbury or Colchester on a world class pitch laid for 'fast, passing football'. I think I'd be the same. This is all on McCabe's watch, let's not forget that as we look toward the future, which to me, as long as he leaves the fucking team and manager alone and doesn't have some or other great idea or he's hiding something critical from us, looks prety good if Saturday's performance is owt to go by.

pommpey
 
It came from McCabe's boardroom. Phipps.

pommpey

Your 'pal' Sean Thornton seemed a little confused on the issue despite continually berating many on here (including yourself) for wrongly attributing the quote to Kevin McCabe...oh the comedy...

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Rather than 'he's saved our club', it's more 'he's kept the club afloat and his sizeable investment alive by moderating his input and generating output from the club itself' (by selling players, mainly).

Isn't that just semantics? Surely 'keeping the club afloat' must also 'save' it? The contribution of cup receipts and player sales just reduces the amount he has to put in.

You are correct he has made several poor decisions which partly contributed to keeping us first in the Championship and then secondly in L1. I don't think anyone really denies this and certainly not me.

Plenty of others have referred to McDonald/Texas and to the many other crap owners around who genuinely have ruined clubs. You don't seem to grant him much credit for just keeping us hanging on in there. We really could have had much worse.

I'm sure one of the motivations for the Desso was increased commercial income, although we had regularly being spending hundreds of thousands to relay the pitch. The fast passing game can only be played by a fast passing team, so when we were shit with bells on, the likes of Shrewsbury and Colchester came and made hay.

Newton's fifth law of motion is of course; 'A good pitch can't stop a shit team being shit'.

Anyhow the Desso is done now and it definitely helped last season. Continuing to link arguments to it makes you look like a one trick pony, which of course you aren't as I've seen at least two tricks and a little pony wiggle too....
 
Yeah - I have accepted he has put money in. £1m, £20m, £41m ... whatever.

There's no doubt he's protecting money already inextricably ploughed into a loss making venture, Sean. As said ... I don't blame him. He knows the strategy and situation better than we do and knows what it will cost to fuck off and set fire to the project. Which is why it costs him less to keep pumping varied amounts of cash in to prevent total collapse and liquidation. Here's my point:

Rather than 'he's saved our club', it's more 'he's kept the club afloat and his sizeable investment alive by moderating his input and generating output from the club itself' (by selling players, mainly).

No one really has the right to blanket this and lay out the palm leaves whilst McCabe rides into the Cherry Street car park atop a donkey. Sure, we may have struggled without him. I acknowledge that. But lets not steer this well reasoned debate away from some clear thinking about the fuck ups McCabe has made (Desso vs back four I think is one) with evangelical genuflecting just because he has finally lucked out with a manager who is possibly the best thing to happen to us since Harry Bassett. The journey to Wilder itself has been bestrewn with fresh, sloppy dog turds which all Blades fans have had to put their bare feet in and moreso those bloody fine people who buy season tickets and turn up home and away every fucking time. If I were a resident of Sheffield, I would, genuinely, be a season ticket holder but even my buddies who are have their resolve seriously tested when we capitulate to Shrewsbury or Colchester on a world class pitch laid for 'fast, passing football'. I think I'd be the same. This is all on McCabe's watch, let's not forget that as we look toward the future, which to me, as long as he leaves the fucking team and manager alone and doesn't have some or other great idea or he's hiding something critical from us, looks prety good if Saturday's performance is owt to go by.

pommpey


Yet you can't bring yourself to even pursue the £41m figure. Is that because it's a specific?

We're pretty much in agreement with what you've posted in the second paragraph.

I know your point. Everyone knows your point, you've already posted it on this thread. You aren't saying anything new, nothing at all.
 
I know your point. Everyone knows your point, you've already posted it on this thread. You aren't saying anything new, nothing at all.

Yet you think by 'showing us the money' it ameliorates the gash governance this club has had. I don't doubt there's many, many corresponding examples where owners have ploughed money into a business venture to protect their initial investment, and to save it from the receivers. Credit where credit is due, the club may have followed that arc, but we didn't really need to be there, did we? Complacency of our capability and susceptibility to injury during the PL season, the ridiculous merry go round of inept managers, the fire sale of good players like Lowton, Murphy, Walker, Jagielka to name but a few (plus the dishonest reasoning behind the sales) ... you can't just cloak that by saying 'look at the accounts'. I could look at the accounts, Sean, sure I could. But it's straw man stuff, isn't it? McCabe made some shit decisions, but he's chucked money after bad money to cover them up. Isn't that the truth? Full marks to him - its his cash. But don't try to tell me the sunnier days we are now experiencing are solely because of him. Were it not for Wilder, SUFC would still be languishing in the division below on manager ten in ten and we'd still be tearing ourselves up over this. I'm grateful (with limitations) for him staying around, but well aware its not solely because he is a Blade, its because he has so much of himself ingrained into the clubs business. We should all be aware of that if we are to believe he is preparing his escape tunnel as everyone affirms he is.

pommpey
 
Yet you think by 'showing us the money' it ameliorates the gash governance this club has had. I don't doubt there's many, many corresponding examples where owners have ploughed money into a business venture to protect their initial investment, and to save it from the receivers. Credit where credit is due, the club may have followed that arc, but we didn't really need to be there, did we? Complacency of our capability and susceptibility to injury during the PL season, the ridiculous merry go round of inept managers, the fire sale of good players like Lowton, Murphy, Walker, Jagielka to name but a few (plus the dishonest reasoning behind the sales) ... you can't just cloak that by saying 'look at the accounts'. I could look at the accounts, Sean, sure I could. But it's straw man stuff, isn't it? McCabe made some shit decisions, but he's chucked money after bad money to cover them up. Isn't that the truth? Full marks to him - its his cash. But don't try to tell me the sunnier days we are now experiencing are solely because of him. Were it not for Wilder, SUFC would still be languishing in the division below on manager ten in ten and we'd still be tearing ourselves up over this. I'm grateful (with limitations) for him staying around, but well aware its not solely because he is a Blade, its because he has so much of himself ingrained into the clubs business. We should all be aware of that if we are to believe he is preparing his escape tunnel as everyone affirms he is.

pommpey


No, that's what you're saying I'm doing. Nowhere have I said that, the opposite in fact, that his decisions are what's caused the majority of problems we suffer and have suffered from. Please don't suggest I've suggested otherwise to try to prove your point and dodge my, very reasonable, question.

You're still repeating yourself by the way. Admittedly you're filling it out but as I said, you are saying nothing new, save concentrating on buzz words today such as ameliorate and evangelical, neither of which adds anything to the debate or indeed frightens people away from the topic.
 

No, that's what you're saying I'm doing. Nowhere have I said that, the opposite in fact, that his decisions are what's caused the majority of problems we suffer and have suffered from. Please don't suggest I've suggested otherwise to try to prove your point and dodge my, very reasonable, question.

You're still repeating yourself by the way. Admittedly you're filling it out but as I said, you are saying nothing new, save concentrating on buzz words today such as ameliorate and evangelical, neither of which adds anything to the debate or indeed frightens people away from the topic.

Well, you can offer critique to my grammar as much as you want. It's usually the last resort of someone who has nothing to offer a debate, and who feels they need to hammer home a point which isn't there.

I think we both understand where we are on this. We seem to agree but now you're off on another tangent, criticising context in my answers, rather than the content. For your information, your consistent answer has been 'look at the accounts', a drumbeat which, despite your insistence, no accounts need to be looked at. We've been a fuck up club since the PL trapdoor opened and have spunked a vast amount on trying to arrest an inevitable fall, with the constant factor throughout being one Kevin McCabe. He is to my knowledge, (although I don't know the cleaning staff or who sells what in the club shop as I order online these days) the only person who has been consistently at the club since we dropped out of the top flight. Given that bald fact, the fact remains, all this (and more) happened on his watch. And the reason it did? Because he has so much invested in the club already, it would ruin him if he got out.

pommpey
 
Typical one eyed logic.

Bad days = All McCabe's fault

Good days = Nothing to do with him.

This is where all your arguments fall down due to your blind hatred of him.

And Bert provides no supporting proof as to where the argument falls down, just a 'one eyed' observation.

Bert's posts get odder and odder.

pommpey
 
A lot of interesting stuff on here, and a lot of absolute shite as well, it must be said.

To give everything a sense of context we need to look at where was in the days before Kevin McCabe became involved with the club. As it happens I've recently re-read the excellent Fit and Proper book and it brought back memories of some other dark days, with a cast list of incapable, the dishonest and the avaricious, with a cast containing the likes of Reg and Len Brearley, Sam Hashimi, Stephen Hincliffe, Mike McDonald, Charles Green and Carlo Colombotti, presiding over numerous shambles and unmitigated disasters such as selling Brian Deane, and then replicated the same mistake with Deane and Fjortoft on the same day, boardroom wars, United even being unable to pay a newspaper bill, having a three sided ground for a couple of years in the 1990s, and countless other embarrassments, that made us for a time the biggest basket case in English football. It is also well worth noting that during the 1999-2000 season which was also heralded the season that Kevin McCabe became the chairman of United, at Bramall Lane we was also experiencing sub 10,000 crowds at Bramall Lane during a time where football was going through a real boom area.

During Kevin McCabes time in charge, we have developed and progressed as a football club to such a degree that we are a totally different club than we was in the 1990s. Bramall Lane looks a lot better than it did back them, thanks to a series of developments and renovations, that make it a ground that would be fit for purpose should we make it to the Premier League. The training ground is a top class facility that develops some outstanding players, and is a facility that is very beneficial to our own squad of players. It is worth casting a less than envious eye to the homes of Leeds United and Sheffield Wednesday that are both aging facilties, become more outdated and dilapidated as time passes. It is also a well known fact that Chansiri and Wednesday come knocking at Uniteds door every winter begging to share our training facilties, only to be told where to go every winter.

I also think that the way United are run, might not pander to popular appeal, often openly bringing out dissent from the supporters from the perceived lack of investment in the first team squad, but this same pragmatism also insulate us against fallow spells, we've recently survived 6 years at the third level of English football, and come through that a lot stronger and a lot more stable. Many clubs of a similar stature and ilk to us would have found it a lot tougher, and it would have brought about administration, new owners who may have had less than honorable intentions. A few years ago we survived the ITV digital collapse quite comfortably due to the way the financial situation of the club was managed, a big achievement considering at the time we was on our own way out of a financial black hole, and should there be another footballing recession, with the way the club is run, i think should there be that recession we a lot better placed to ride that out than 90% of other clubs.

I also think Kevin McCabe can also take great credit for the way he has looked after the supporters. During the last 10 years he has kept the prices reasonable, and encouraged the support to keep on backing United, incentivised by good deals on season tickets and matchday tickets that have kept people interested and coming through the turnstiles to the extent where our level of support during the 6 seasons in the third tier has been unmatched in terms of size and loyalty, and this has left us with a large and loyal fan base, that was grown and developed over time and by and large has been retained.

Kevin McCabes biggest folly to my own mind came during the mid 2000s, which was a real boom time on the pitch as all the hard work over the previous years came together, and in 2007 in terms of finances and momentum we was ideally situated to capitalise and become a settled side in the top flight along similar lines to how Stoke are now. Where he went wrong was effectively handing over all responsability of the footballing operations to Terry Robinson, who made a disasterous appointment in Bryan Robson which was also compounded by the biggest spending spree in the clubs history on players who didn't deliver value for money. At the time we signed Lee Hendrie for £20k a week, but we was also interested in Wes Hoolahan and Graham Dorrans at the same time who we could have got at the time, and for a combined fee of a lot less than we spent on the Hendrie package. This left us massively over-budget at the end of the 2000s, and we had to cut costs quite dramatically, and this ended up with a relegation to the third tier, which to my mind was a consequence of the dire Robinson era.

I would probably say that on the field, we have struggled as Kevin McCabe has had a lot of bad luck. The relegation in 2007 was poor and to be honest we was mugged off that the powers that be, not taking the correct decision in deducting West Ham points for a clear and calculated breach of the rules that enabled them to profit by surviving in the Premier League. With the exception of Robson, and maybe Wilson as well who was an unpopular choice, his managerial appointments have been universally well received as being the right man for the job at the time. I can't recall many arguments against the full time appointment of Blackwell, the appointments of Adams, Speed, Weir, Clough and Adkins who for a multitude of different reasons couldn't achieve what we wanted them to set out to do. The appointment of Wilder was also a clearly well thought out decision and was the one that did actually turn out to be the right decision.

I think on the whole the Kevin McCabe era has represented stability and in many ways if he did leave us tomorrow, he would have left us in a lot healthier than in the state that he found us. He has built up the infrastructure of the club to that of one that wouldn't look out of place in the top flight, but he has also made some very poor footballing decisions and i think that is why we haven't made the progress that he, and us would have wanted during his 18 years in charge, and i would imagine that he would also be the first one to admit that failing as well.
 
while in charge he as made some good decisions and some bad, he seems to appreciate he has not always done it right but always the McCabe family as had the interests of our football club at heart, he as put in a hell of a lot more in than he has taken out and we are in very good shape for the future no matter what that might be.

I give thanks to the steer the McCabe family has given us, not always in the right direction, but hay ho.
 
I also think that the way United are run, might not pander to popular appeal, often openly bringing out dissent from the supporters from the perceived lack of investment in the first team squad, but this same pragmatism also insulate us against fallow spells, we've recently survived 6 years at the third level of English football, and come through that a lot stronger and a lot more stable. Many clubs of a similar stature and ilk to us would have found it a lot tougher, and it would have brought about administration, new owners who may have had less than honorable intentions. .

I think on the whole the Kevin McCabe era has represented stability and in many ways if he did leave us tomorrow, he would have left us in a lot healthier than in the state that he found us. He has built up the infrastructure of the club to that of one that wouldn't look out of place in the top flight, but he has also made some very poor footballing decisions and i think that is why we haven't made the progress that he, and us would have wanted during his 18 years in charge, and i would imagine that he would also be the first one to admit that failing as well.

This is a good post but I'd beg to differ on the key points mentioned above.

Your point about League One is sugar coating the actual position. Since McCabe has been in charge Wolves, Leicester, Norwich, Leeds, Forest, Bolton, Wednesday (twice), Charlton (twice) and Portsmouth have all fallen into the third tier and all of them save Portsmouth and Charlton second time have escaped more quickly than us. Pompey and Charlton may yet do so. The opposite of what you say is true. Most clubs of a similar stature and ilk have found it easier to escape. 6 years in that league does not reflect well on those who run the club.

McCabe's 19 seasons in charge have yielded one top division season. The club was in chaos from about 1988 to 1999 and yet we had four such seasons in that time. Stability off the field is important, but success on it is more important to the fans.

Your last paragraph is fair (though in terms of league position we are close to where we started, not in a much better position) but I am not sure McCabe would agree with your last point. I get the impression - though I stand to be corrected - he puts a lot of it down to bad luck, over-reliance on people who have made the bad decisions, or on being the victim of events beyond his control (e.g. player sales), rather than decisions he has made personally.

I am unsure what McCabe's legacy will be. I have a lot more time and sympathy for Reg Brealey than I did at the time, for example. At the moment you can say that this period in our history has been eventful, and not always in a good way. I think that the sad thing is that we have had a number of opportunities to advance ourselves - when others had trouble over ITV Digital and we didn't, getting in 3 playoff finals, having excellent chances of automatic promotion in 2009 and 2012, having parachute money in 2007, producing some fantastic young talent - and we frittered them all away.
 
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A lot of interesting stuff on here, and a lot of absolute shite as well, it must be said.

If I may:

Fit and Proper.

Superb. I await an update.

During Kevin McCabes time in charge, we have developed and progressed as a football club

Really? I mean Really? The last ten seasons haven't shown much development and progression.

... stuff about BDTBL, facilities and other clubs ...

Yep. New stands and new pitch. Meanwhile, we languished in Div One. I mean, fill your boots looking at the ground an' all. But SUFC 2-3 Peterborough? Must have felt nice sitting in a nice stadium watching that.

... survived the ITV digital fiasco ...

How many didn't?

... season tickets, looked after the fans ...

he's had to. If he didn't, one of his two main income streams (the other being player sales) would dry up.


Hired after we'd crashed out of the PL and sacked Warnock. Robson and Roboinson were McCabe's appointments, were they not?


Yep. And we had compensation for that, did we not? Where did that go then?

... 'multitude of reasons' ...

State them please.

. Wilder .... turned out to be right ...

Yep. Note, didn't sell key players and left Wilder to his own devices. NOTE: All players sold were previously ineffective for us and not part of Wilder's greater strategy.

I think on the whole the Kevin McCabe era has represented stability and in many ways if he did leave us tomorrow, he would have left us in a lot healthier than in the state that he found us. He has built up the infrastructure of the club to that of one that wouldn't look out of place in the top flight, but he has also made some very poor footballing decisions and i think that is why we haven't made the progress that he, and us would have wanted during his 18 years in charge, and i would imagine that he would also be the first one to admit that failing as well.

Stability? Where?

Top flight? One season?

McCabe has admitted nothing (and who can blame him, looking at your summary 1771? You have effectively painted him coloured with a black and white brush there feller.

pommpey
 
This is a good post but I'd beg to differ on the key points mentioned above.

Your point about League One is sugar coating the actual position. Since McCabe has been in charge Wolves, Leicester, Norwich, Leeds, Forest, Bolton, Wednesday (twice), Charlton (twice) and Portsmouth have all fallen into the third tier and all of them save Portsmouth and Charlton second time have escaped more quickly than us. Pompey and Charlton may yet do so. The opposite of what you say is true. Most clubs of a similar stature and ilk have found it easier to escape. 6 years in that league does not reflect well on those who run the club.

McCabe's 19 seasons in charge have yielded one top division season. The club was in chaos from about 1988 to 1999 and yet we had four such seasons in that time. Stability off the field is important, but success on it is more important to the fans.

Your last paragraph is fair (though in terms of league position we are close to where we started, not in a much better position) but I am not sure McCabe would agree with your last point. I get the impression - though I stand to be corrected - he puts a lot of it down to bad luck, over-reliance on people who have made the bad decisions, or on being the victim of events beyond his control (e.g. player sales), rather than decisions he has made personally.

I am unsure what McCabe's legacy will be. I have a lot more time and sympathy for Reg Brealey than I did at the time, for example. At the moment you can say that this period in our history has been eventful, and not always in a good way. I think that the sad thing is that we have had a number of opportunities to advance ourselves - when others had trouble over ITV Digital and we didn't, getting in 3 playoff finals, having excellent chances of automatic promotion in 2009 and 2012, having parachute money in 2007, producing some fantastic young talent - and we frittered them all away.


^all of this and one more thing^:

McCabe.

pommpey
 

Well, you can offer critique to my grammar as much as you want. It's usually the last resort of someone who has nothing to offer a debate, and who feels they need to hammer home a point which isn't there.

I think we both understand where we are on this. We seem to agree but now you're off on another tangent, criticising context in my answers, rather than the content. For your information, your consistent answer has been 'look at the accounts', a drumbeat which, despite your insistence, no accounts need to be looked at. We've been a fuck up club since the PL trapdoor opened and have spunked a vast amount on trying to arrest an inevitable fall, with the constant factor throughout being one Kevin McCabe. He is to my knowledge, (although I don't know the cleaning staff or who sells what in the club shop as I order online these days) the only person who has been consistently at the club since we dropped out of the top flight. Given that bald fact, the fact remains, all this (and more) happened on his watch. And the reason it did? Because he has so much invested in the club already, it would ruin him if he got out.

pommpey


Of course it's a deflection. Jeez. You're the one dodging a simple question.

You're still banging on about the same thing just adding more and more every post.

Do you agree with the £41m or can't you bring yourself to commit to a figure that may come back to haunt you? You post repeatedly about transfers, bad decisions etc etc but steer well clear of any actual financials in case it doesn't suit in future.
 

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