In praise of Mccabe

[I should coco]

makes you wonder how bolton on 15000 gates managed a 30 million wage bill

They didn't really 'manage' it though as the takeover last year was because they were in debt of £180m IIRC. Much of that must have been a hangover from overpaying to stay in the Prem.

This is what I can't get about all the idiots who ask McCabe to gamble 'just another £1m' to get us up. That £1m transfer fee usually comes with £3-4m of wages over the contract period so the cycle continues.

I'm sure we still have a few high payments on our books (eg Adkins & staff, some of Brayford, Hammond etc) but we finally seem to have a wage bill more in line with our status. That wage bill should increase next year as we get more income, but let's not kid ourselves we will be making 'big' signings any time soon.

 

[South Bucks]

Interesting thread and good informative posts esa. Clearly many of us agree that what happened or didn't happen in Jan 2007 was pivotal and has affected us ever since.

My take, for what its worth (not much), and I was ST holder and probably saw about 25 games that season from living down south is:

1) Manager - Warnock was out of his depth in the prem at that time as witnessed by his behaviour and the generally poor quality of players brought in that season.
2) Squad - This never ending theme we have at united then and since of lets have a big squad of mediocre players instead of a smaller squad of better quality (how many times do we think he's a really good signing and a sign we're going places?).
3) Strengthening - The reluctance to speculate to accummulate enough when the time is right and the odds are in our favour (hadn't we lost Hulse by that point and couldn't afford Nugent so limped into the last half of the season looking very weak up front).

Think we are now ok with 1) but a few of those I drink with still think for 2) we might often do better with a smaller squad of better quality. Haven't we sometimes had 24 to 30 in the squad when 20 good uns might do better ?

I also worry that we never do enough of 3) at the right time and if ever there was a right time it is now but will anything change........

 

[blade too long]

mccabes had to become adept at managing debt
he is used to making money in the construction business
must be soul destroying watching money draining quickly away at the money pit of a football club

 

[Esablade]

So, the top four spenders finished in the top four and three of the bottom six spenders got relegated. It's almost as if there's a correlation between the wage bill and the league position.
Apart from West Ham who had to cheat. Does their wage bill include all the back handers they had to pay to avoid the points deduction?

Nice edit btw

Anyhow, on your revised point...

It's my belief that, perhaps due to ego's or well documented clashes between the two, McCabe didn't back Warnock sufficiently in the Prem season. I don't think McCabe particularly liked him and was looking to get rid at the end of the season...hence all the contract bollocks...(thats just my opinion btw)

This appears to be born out by the figures of our promotion bed-fellows, with Watford increasing their wage bill by 78% (still not enough to save them), and Reading by 109% (and doing very well) compared to our 48%.

When you look at McCabe's grandiose plans for expansion both on and off the pitch, combined with the massive increase in TV revenue from 1.1 million in 2006 to 20 million in 2007...well, it appear's almost negligent.

As Julian Winter stated later:

"the club’s approach “has not worked” resulting in “significant annual losses.”

Losses which impact to this very day.

 

[blade too long]

Interesting thread and good informative posts esa. Clearly many of us agree that what happened or didn't happen in Jan 2007 was pivotal and has affected us ever since.

My take, for what its worth (not much), and I was ST holder and probably saw about 25 games that season from living down south is:

1) Manager - Warnock was out of his depth in the prem at that time as witnessed by his behaviour and the generally poor quality of players brought in that season.
2) Squad - This never ending theme we have at united then and since of lets have a big squad of mediocre players instead of a smaller squad of better quality (how many times do we think he's a really good signing and a sign we're going places?).
3) Strengthening - The reluctance to speculate to accummulate enough when the time is right and the odds are in our favour (hadn't we lost Hulse by that point and couldn't afford Nugent so limped into the last half of the season looking very weak up front).

Think we are now ok with 1) but a few of those I drink with still think for 2) we might often do better with a smaller squad of better quality. Haven't we sometimes had 24 to 30 in the squad when 20 good uns might do better ?

I also worry that we never do enough of 3) at the right time and if ever there was a right time it is now but will anything change........

regards 3 , wont need to , Wilders a canny operator hes feeling the luxury of his players all being paid on time
its a selling point compared to some clubs

 

[blade too long]

It's my belief that, perhaps due to ego's or well documented clashes between the two, McCabe didn't back Warnock sufficiently in the Prem season. I don't think McCabe particularly liked him and was looking to get rid at the end of the season...hence all the contract bollocks...(thats just my opinion btw)
.

maybe warocks buys , could have been better
Claude Fathi and sHELTON

 

[1danewhitehouse]

So just how do you 'reduce the wage bill' by spending 'probably' around £7 million on players, well, of course, that figure has to include all player contracts and wages also...the devil's in the detail I guess.

Here's a little more explanation on McCabe's process...loan note allocation's to raise the cash and all...wonder what the other £5 million they raised went on?


"But Warnock has been warned by plc chairman Kevin McCabe he will have to use the cash to help fund players' wages.

United are to raise £10million via a loan note allocation scheme to be approved by shareholders towards the end of the month.

Warnock is to be given half of the funds, plus he has a further £2million remaining from the summer transfer kitty.

McCabe confirmed: "If we're adding the £5million from the loan note allocation, plus the budget left over from the beginning of the season, he probably has something like £7million.

"It's a lot of money, although that's an allocation of money that is also for player contracts.

"My feeling is the squad we have now is good enough to keep us up, but I appreciate every team needs freshening up at some stage.

"We did that last season when we brought in four or five players in January.

"You can look back and say Neil didn't need some of them, but we were promoted, so it worked.

"This time around we maybe need to freshen things up a little, but don't ask me with who because I haven't a clue.

"When you look at who we can recruit, the list is pretty small if the criteria is that we need players who are better than those we have. It's not easy."


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-424167/Warnock-gets-money-spend.html

People can make their own minds up with the facts I guess...McCabe felt the squad was 'good enough to stay up'...say's it all really...well, that and the 'don't ask me, I haven't got a clue' bit...

I think the squad would have been good enough to stay up if Hulse hadn’t broken his leg. The problem we had was signing cover that was willing to come and play 2nd fiddle to Hulse. Turned out Stead and Shelton was the best we could do.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

well obviously theres gate receipts , all clubs have gate receipts
, thats a given

tell me how much of pogbas 95 million fee came out of mufcs gate receipts
source of income other , than the bleeding obvious, that all 92 have


outside of that the bulk of the income comes from the board at any club

bit of diifference between buying 1 x 350 quid season ticket
and covering the 6 million pound wages short fall

when you think 6 m from all our fans st ,s

mcc 6m to cover shortfall

mccabes matching what all our fans put in, and thats each season on normal running
not adding paying for ground improvements pitches etc

so working it backwards he puts in 20000 times each season what 1 season ticket holder does

obviously there are many other source of income is what you're saying. So obviously McCabe is not the sole source of income. So obviously your comment was a very silly one.

In addition to that income that all the clubs have, we had a windfall from the Tevez saga, have sold tonnes of good players and have brought a Saudi Prince on board to help foot the bill. So I think the words of you're looking for are "yes, it was very silly and wrong of me to say that McCabe was our sole source of income for the last 15 years".

 

[bladeinspaceandtime]

You seem to have changed the subject a bit...

...You could just acknowledge that it was a very silly comment on your part…..

blade too long has form.

 

[Darthblade]

Imagine it's Kelly Brook, but in reality it's Bella Emberg (for all you older TV viewing Blades out there......)

Fucking hell ...... Kelly looks pleased to see me ..... and it looks chilly as well

Don't think much to yours though mate !!

UTB & FTP

 

[blade too long]

obviously there are many other source of income is what you're saying. So obviously McCabe is not the sole source of income. So obviously your comment was a very silly one.

In addition to that income that all the clubs have, we had a windfall from the Tevez saga, have sold tonnes of good players and have brought a Saudi Prince on board to help foot the bill. So I think the words of you're looking for are "yes, it was very silly and wrong of me to say that McCabe was our sole source of income for the last 15 years".

Well lets just say in the grand scheme of things, selling murphy for 1.5 and blackman for 1 is peanuts
just about covers the clubs insurance premiums
again we sell players , we buy players the NETT income from selling and buying players nearly levels out

buying ched for 3m , lost it all when he got sent down takes out maguire and adams sale for example

tonnes of players we sell them by weight now,
who were the tonnes we sold last season

these sweeping generalisations you post are always one way, a clubs accounts has 2 sides
you only ever mention cash coming in
like we never buy anyone or pay wages

 

[blade too long]

blade too long has form.

where the fuck did I change the subject , just pointed out we dont only sell players , we buy them
its changing the subject in danes eyes has hes got blinkers on

all our players are paid by the wages fairy dane thinks we have

 

[Esablade]

Interesting thread and good informative posts esa. Clearly many of us agree that what happened or didn't happen in Jan 2007 was pivotal and has affected us ever since.

My take, for what its worth (not much), and I was ST holder and probably saw about 25 games that season from living down south is:

1) Manager - Warnock was out of his depth in the prem at that time as witnessed by his behaviour and the generally poor quality of players brought in that season.
2) Squad - This never ending theme we have at united then and since of lets have a big squad of mediocre players instead of a smaller squad of better quality (how many times do we think he's a really good signing and a sign we're going places?).
3) Strengthening - The reluctance to speculate to accummulate enough when the time is right and the odds are in our favour (hadn't we lost Hulse by that point and couldn't afford Nugent so limped into the last half of the season looking very weak up front).

Think we are now ok with 1) but a few of those I drink with still think for 2) we might often do better with a smaller squad of better quality. Haven't we sometimes had 24 to 30 in the squad when 20 good uns might do better ?

I also worry that we never do enough of 3) at the right time and if ever there was a right time it is now but will anything change........

1) Agree with much of that, still, Warnock was shopping for Championship players to use in the Prem basically, when push came to shove with the likes of Nugent, it was no-go...maybe if Hulse had stayed fit etc etc..if's, buts and maybe's...
2) Dunno if that's just a United thing...maybe it's a hangover from Warnock (he liked a big squad did Neil, how many strikers!)
3) Again, that comes down to McCabe...talk of lowering the wage bill when you're hovering in and around the relegation zone of your first season back in the Premier league...

Re: Wilder. no.1 kind of cancel's out no.2 at the moment in that he's managing the club/squad very well.
If we are promoted I think you may get your wish of a smaller squad of better quality...and hopefully he'll continue to say 'the board have been fantastic!'

UTB!

 

[BushBlade]

Nice edit btw

Anyhow, on your revised point...

It's my belief that, perhaps due to ego's or well documented clashes between the two, McCabe didn't back Warnock sufficiently in the Prem season. I don't think McCabe particularly liked him and was looking to get rid at the end of the season...hence all the contract bollocks...(thats just my opinion btw)

This appears to be born out by the figures of our promotion bed-fellows, with Watford increasing their wage bill by 78% (still not enough to save them), and Reading by 109% (and doing very well) compared to our 48%.

When you look at McCabe's grandiose plans for expansion both on and off the pitch, combined with the massive increase in TV revenue from 1.1 million in 2006 to 20 million in 2007...well, it appear's almost negligent.

As Julian Winter stated later:

"the club’s approach “has not worked” resulting in “significant annual losses.”

Losses which impact to this very day.

I didn't edit anything.

 

[Sean Thornton]

So just how do you 'reduce the wage bill' by spending 'probably' around £7 million on players, well, of course, that figure has to include all player contracts and wages also...the devil's in the detail I guess.

Here's a little more explanation on McCabe's process...loan note allocation's to raise the cash and all...wonder what the other £5 million they raised went on?


"But Warnock has been warned by plc chairman Kevin McCabe he will have to use the cash to help fund players' wages.

United are to raise £10million via a loan note allocation scheme to be approved by shareholders towards the end of the month.

Warnock is to be given half of the funds, plus he has a further £2million remaining from the summer transfer kitty.

McCabe confirmed: "If we're adding the £5million from the loan note allocation, plus the budget left over from the beginning of the season, he probably has something like £7million.

"It's a lot of money, although that's an allocation of money that is also for player contracts.

"My feeling is the squad we have now is good enough to keep us up, but I appreciate every team needs freshening up at some stage.

"We did that last season when we brought in four or five players in January.

"You can look back and say Neil didn't need some of them, but we were promoted, so it worked.

"This time around we maybe need to freshen things up a little, but don't ask me with who because I haven't a clue.

"When you look at who we can recruit, the list is pretty small if the criteria is that we need players who are better than those we have. It's not easy."


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-424167/Warnock-gets-money-spend.html

People can make their own minds up with the facts I guess...McCabe felt the squad was 'good enough to stay up'...say's it all really...well, that and the 'don't ask me, I haven't got a clue' bit...

A circular argument based on our opinions. Possible to read from that that NW didn't think the starting eleven needed strengthening or he wouldn't have spent £3m plus wages on players for the future. And I understand that he could have only have got one decent player for the £7m.

The havent a clue comment relates to which players as funny as it sounds and quite rightly that wasn't his job but Warnocks.

Should more money have helped. You'd have expected so but Colin spunked the money he was given away. He also showed he was yet again out of his depth at the top level and also that he worshipped money more than he did theBlades.

Then again maybe McCabe found one skeleton in the cupboard too many.

McCabe Isnt blameless for relegation and remember he had forked out when asked and backed Warnock the previous season, but how anyone can give Colin a clean bill of health taking the season as a whole is beyond me.

 

[Esablade]

I didn't edit anything.

OK..sorry, maybe it was a glitch...I tried to reply to a comment you made and wasn't allowed to..then I was and the comment appeared to change...no problem

 

[BushBlade]

OK..sorry, maybe it was a glitch...I tried to reply to a comment you made and wasn't allowed to..then I was and the comment appeared to change...no problem

That's bizarre. What bit was different?

 

[Esablade]

A circular argument based on our opinions. Possible to read from that that NW didn't think the starting eleven needed strengthening or he wouldn't have spent £3m plus wages on players for the future. And I understand that he could have only have got one decent player for the £7m.

The havent a clue comment relates to which players as funny as it sounds and quite rightly that wasn't his job but Warnocks.

Should more money have helped. You'd have expected so but Colin spunked the money he was given away. He also showed he was yet again out of his depth at the top level and also that he worshipped money more than he did theBlades.

Then again maybe McCabe found one skeleton in the cupboard too many.

McCabe Isnt blameless for relegation and remember he had forked out when asked and backed Warnock the previous season, but how anyone can give Colin a clean bill of health taking the season as a whole is beyond me.

No circular or argument of any kind in posting the appropriate figures...as I said, people can make their own mind's up on the why's and wherefore's therein and draw their own conclusions.

'Colin'? I take it you're not of fan of Warnock either?

 

[Sean Thornton]

1) Agree with much of that, still, Warnock was shopping for Championship players to use in the Prem basically, when push came to shove with the likes of Nugent, it was no-go...maybe if Hulse had stayed fit etc etc..if's, buts and maybe's...
2) Dunno if that's just a United thing...maybe it's a hangover from Warnock (he liked a big squad did Neil, how many strikers!)
3) Again, that comes down to McCabe...talk of lowering the wage bill when you're hovering in and around the relegation zone of your first season back in the Premier league...

Re: Wilder. no.1 kind of cancel's out no.2 at the moment in that he's managing the club/squad very well.
If we are promoted I think you may get your wish of a smaller squad of better quality...and hopefully he'll continue to say 'the board have been fantastic!'

UTB!

Hulse was injured after the JTW closed I think. Preparing before was the priority. Didn't happen. Maybe Warnocks house needed new guttering on his newish extension although you'd expect it to last more than a couple of years.

They both made mistakes no one should deny that but maybe Warnock should have been as vociferous about wanting money for players as he was about him not getting his contract renewed. As some think - although not me - maybe McCabes mistake was not replacing him for the PL season.

 

[Esablade]

That's bizarre. What bit was different?

The whole lot!
Summat about top four spending teams finishing in the top four and bottom four in the bottom!!!

 

[BushBlade]

The whole lot!
Summat about top four spending teams finishing in the top four and bottom four in the bottom!!!

No, definitely didn't type that. I've just been sat wondering if I added the West Ham bit but I couldn't remember doing so. I definitely didn't say owt about a bottom four and counted down from Charlton to get the six before I started to type the post.

 

[Sean Thornton]

No circular or argument of any kind in posting the appropriate figures...as I said, people can make their own mind's up on the why's and wherefore's therein and draw their own conclusions.

'Colin'? I take it you're not of fan of Warnock either?

Circular in that reading that quote puts the player decisions down to NW. Which ive pointed out. Even with only £7m Warnock didn't do much with it did he? We blame McCabe for letting Robson and Clough chuck money away but Uncle Neil gets off scot free. Strange that.

I was until the Pompey incident and then his bizarre season in the PL.

 

[Sean Thornton]

No, definitely didn't type that. I've just been sat wondering if I added the West Ham bit but I couldn't remember doing so. I definitely didn't say owt about a bottom four and counted down from Charlton to get the six before I started to type the post.

Some people make things up on here

 

[Esablade]

Hulse was injured after the JTW closed I think. Preparing before was the priority. Didn't happen. Maybe Warnocks house needed new guttering on his newish extension although you'd expect it to last more than a couple of years.

They both made mistakes no one should deny that but maybe Warnock should have been as vociferous about wanting money for players as he was about him not getting his contract renewed. As some think - although not me - maybe McCabes mistake was not replacing him for the PL season.

..and yet still the fact remains, we raised the wage bill by only 48% upon promotion, even Watford's went up by 78%...so Warnock 'didn't want to spend', we've heard this one a lot more recently haven't we?

 

[Esablade]

Circular in that reading that quote puts the player decisions down to NW. Which ive pointed out. Even with only £7m Warnock didn't do much with it did he? We blame McCabe for letting Robson and Clough chuck money away but Uncle Neil gets off scot free. Strange that.

I was until the Pompey incident and then his bizarre season in the PL.

You're trying to blame Warnock for not spending the second lowest budget in the League appropriately...some would argue he did well to finish third bottom in that respect...

 

[Sean Thornton]

..and yet still the fact remains, we raised the wage bill by only 48% upon promotion, even Watford's went up by 78%...so Warnock 'didn't want to spend', we've heard this one a lot more recently haven't we?

Not from me. Just to clarify like before it becomes an Internet FACT.

 

[Sean Thornton]

You're trying to blame Warnock for not spending the second lowest budget in the League appropriately...some would argue he did well to finish third bottom in that respect...

Here we go again. Please point out where ive said that. It's a simple request, are you up to the challenge or have you reverted to type?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Some people make things up on here

And as if by magic.

 

[Esablade]

Here we go again. Please point out where ive said that. It's a simple request, are you up to the challenge or have you reverted to type?

Perhaps you've confused yourself, I know this below doesn't 'even' make sense?

Even with only £7m Warnock didn't do much with it did he?

So we had the second lowest budget in the division ( £7 million of which, Warnock didn't 'even do much with' anyway, in your opinion) ..so that's £2 million carried over from the summer and £5 million from the £10 million raised through the Issue of Convertible Loan Notes in December 2006.

Do you know what the board did with the other £5 million they raised?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Perhaps you've confused yourself, I know this below doesn't 'even' make sense?



So we had the second lowest budget in the division ( £7 million of which, Warnock didn't 'even do much with' anyway, in your opinion) ..so that's £2 million carried over from the summer and £5 million from the £10 million raised through the Issue of Convertible Loan Notes in December 2006.

Do you know what the board did with the other £5 million they raised?

You're a sad man. I've never mentioned the budget he had. Not once. You've referenced the entire budget as "not spending the second lowest budget in the league appropriately". I've talked about the £7 million an amount which I believe you brought to the table, and in fact originally only referred to transfer fees of three million, which did us no good at all however anyone tries to call it.

So IF the wages for those three was £4m, (7-3- highly unlikely spent in four months but let's run with it), that leaves another £14m on which Ive passed no comment on whatsoever and the difference in total transfer fees less three million, again which outside your own head Ive made no reference too. Got it?

I've not commented on the funding either but I suppose trying to widen the debate hides much of your bullshit. You can always tell me though, save time.

I don't no whether it's some insecurity that makes you do this, or your the troll that quite a few posters tell me you are, you just enjoy lying, or you didn't put your head guard on when sparring in the gym all those times.

Whatever it is, you aren't worth conversing with, even though I gave it another try and more fool me. You really need to grow up or get help.