Thanks Chris Wilder.

[Booker4]

Maybe I'm too harsh on Adkins, I probably am. But can't say I'm willing to look back on his reign (given how it petered out so pathetically) with any sort of generosity.

Of course, there's truth in what you say. But, within the parameters he was working in, did he really do enough?, was he anything like proactive enough? I don't think so.

I don't believe the maxim "nice guys can't succeed" in football (witness Ranieri for e.g.). But nice guys need a nice environment. And his attempted creation of that nice environment was to bring his mates in to surround himself with a comfort blanket, rather than tackling problems head-on. Adkins didn't have the steeliness needed for a seriously tough job, with a depressed & disaffected fanbase, & a playing staff that didn't have enough respect for him.

Yes, he was landed with players who weren't good enough, who were getting payed too much, who were in far too much of a comfort zone. Why not make an example of one or two of them though (like Clough did with Collins, say)? Why not criticize poor performance, rather than endlessly justifying & excusing it?

He avoided problems (including trimming the squad), rather than tackling them. With the shameful end result that United finished 11th in Division Three.

Guess we'll never know how much effort he made to getting the squad down, particularly in the earlier days. By the time he realised what he wanted squad wise (probably about November) he was trying to shift people on but he was only really able to do this post January.

Adkins was too protective of the players I agree. He could have criticised performances not individually but as a group and he didn't do that enough to the fans, but he did always say what was said to the players stays in the dressing room, but that meant we have no idea if he was rollocking them or not. Adkins didn't seem to be able to motivate the players in my view, not like Bassett and Warnock could. He's gone now and I think we can all agree we've got a fantastic replacement, who is already sorting out the mess left over, largely from Clough's reign.

 

[BushBlade]

Maybe I'm too harsh on Adkins, I probably am. But can't say I'm willing to look back on his reign (given how it petered out so pathetically) with any sort of generosity.

Of course, there's truth in what you say. But, within the parameters he was working in, did he really do enough?, was he anything like proactive enough? I don't think so.

I don't believe the maxim "nice guys can't succeed" in football (witness Ranieri for e.g.). But nice guys need a nice environment. And his attempted creation of that nice environment was to bring his mates in to surround himself with a comfort blanket, rather than tackling problems head-on. Adkins didn't have the steeliness needed for a seriously tough job, with a depressed & disaffected fanbase, & a playing staff that didn't have enough respect for him.

Yes, he was landed with players who weren't good enough, who were getting payed too much, who were in far too much of a comfort zone. Why not make an example of one or two of them though (like Clough did with Collins, say)? Why not criticize poor performance, rather than endlessly justifying & excusing it?

He avoided problems (including trimming the squad), rather than tackling them. With the shameful end result that United finished 11th in Division Three.

The Ranieri thing is a myth. He's as hard as nails, he just knows how to work the media.

I think both Adkins and Wilder have worked to a rough brief given to them by the board. Last year, the board wanted to keep the players we'd signed as we would have lost a lot of money shipping them out and the board had decided that they were good players who'd been mismanaged.

This season, now it costs nothing to release them and they've pretty much demonstrated that they're not good enough, it's 'get rid'.

 

[Champagneblade]

Maybe I'm too harsh on Adkins, I probably am. But can't say I'm willing to look back on his reign (given how it petered out so pathetically) with any sort of generosity.

Of course, there's truth in what you say. But, within the parameters he was working in, did he really do enough?, was he anything like proactive enough? I don't think so.

I don't believe the maxim "nice guys can't succeed" in football (witness Ranieri for e.g.). But nice guys need a nice environment. And his attempted creation of that nice environment was to bring his mates in to surround himself with a comfort blanket, rather than tackling problems head-on. Adkins didn't have the steeliness needed for a seriously tough job, with a depressed & disaffected fanbase, & a playing staff that didn't have enough respect for him.

Yes, he was landed with players who weren't good enough, who were getting payed too much, who were in far too much of a comfort zone. Why not make an example of one or two of them though (like Clough did with Collins, say)? Why not criticize poor performance, rather than endlessly justifying & excusing it?

He avoided problems (including trimming the squad), rather than tackling them. With the shameful end result that United finished 11th in Division Three.

I don't think you are too harsh.

I find it unforgiveable that a professional football manager will go into a club without some prior knowledge in terms of what needs to be done.

Both Adams and Adkins did that. They should have a good working knowledge of each club from scouting alone which tells them how they play and where they were strong. Most teenagers can tell you this. Amazed that neither of these two had the foggiest where priorities were.

Adkins moaned about the squad size, then added players they didn't need and failed to correctly address the key areas whilst giving second chances to players who had failed before.

It's just lazy. He could have taken a fortnight (he started a month before pre-season) and watched ALL of our previous season matches as 'homework'. That would have been more than enough to evaluate who could be of use. Arriving to a squad of 40+ with a 'let's have a look what they can do' attitude was ridiculous. At least Wilder has been decisive to date.

As for his interviews, aside from the mindless positivity, I question how deep his football knowledge is. Keep it out one end and put it in the other seemed quite a playful mantra but I'm not sure his knowledge was much deeper, maybe because he was a keeper and not an outfield player. At least with Clough it sounded as if he understood the game. This is perhaps why Adkins needed two coaches and Wilder only feels he needs one.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I don't think this was as easy for wilder as people think. Ok there were plenty of players who were out of contract but the big balls for me in transfer listing so many players. Those players have questionable attitudes in the main and can't see many of them hitting the training ground again, nevermind to pitch.

The transfer listing is a bit risky as if he can’t shift them, he’s got dead weights round his neck as those players will know he doesn’t want them so are unlikely to perform for him. Let’s hope he can find some takers and bring the quality in that we require. If not, at least it's not a full dressing room of them still remaining.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I'm surprised you're still chirping up, I thought you'd have gone all quiet when you realised the reaction was what it was yesterday.

Surely even you can see that the overwhelming majority thought the retained list was done excellently.

Yes, people are pleased with the retained list overall but there have been posters suggesting any one of McEveley, Flynn, JCR, Freeman, Diego etc. should get another crack. Ergo unequivocally not unanimous. So you were wrong. The majority wanting something does not make it unanimous. It’s also strange that you use it as an argument that something should happen. After all, the majority on the poll wanted both Adkins and Clough to remain in charge. So surely by your logic, the board dropped another bollock sacking Adkins right?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

You are utterly hilarious.

Unanimous is there or thereabouts as I said it would be.

I've seen one thread since the retained list saying he thought it was a mistake to release so many players and one maybe two people agreed with him.

Not read much if the forum today so unless you can point me in the direction of all these other "various threads"?

It should be easy, even for you to know that there's always going to be a few unhappy with every single decision.

To reject that an overwhelming majority are in favour of the retained list anyone can see is just daft.

Unanimous is an absolute term. Something can’t be fairly unanimous. It is either unanimous or it is not. In this case, it is not.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I cannot believe you're actually arguing that the reaction to the retained list was not overwhelmingly in favour of what was done.

And no, what you've said there definitely wasn't my point actually. That's a point you've made up to be mine.

Nowhere did I say that the board we have currently should have done the retained list.

I said that we should have a board capable enough to know what needs to be done, but that it's frustrating because they aren't.

Obviously this perplexed your little mind and you clearly couldn't and still can't differentiate between the two.

Actually you bemoaned the fact that the board we have were not ‘competent’ enough to handle the retained list and wished we had one that was. When questioned on what would constitute a ‘competent’ board and what structure you would suggest that board should be heading up, you had nothing other than saying you didn’t trust the manager to make the right call, fans unanimously wanted them all gone, then changed to say ‘overwhelming majority’ when pulled up. You then proceeded to try to argue that if the majority of fans would be happy with something that means the board should overrule the new manager to do it in case he makes the wrong decision. You seem confused as to whether player recruitment/ retention should be handled by a ‘competent’ board or by some sort of fan voting system. You seem to have rather tangled yourself up as you constantly try to change your point when your errors are pointed out.


Anyway, for what it’s worth, on the whole I’m quite pleased with the retained list. That doesn’t mean I absolutely agree with every decision therein but that the while picture looks a positive one.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Maybe I'm too harsh on Adkins, I probably am. But can't say I'm willing to look back on his reign (given how it petered out so pathetically) with any sort of generosity.

Of course, there's truth in what you say. But, within the parameters he was working in, did he really do enough?, was he anything like proactive enough? I don't think so.

I don't believe the maxim "nice guys can't succeed" in football (witness Ranieri for e.g.). But nice guys need a nice environment. And his attempted creation of that nice environment was to bring his mates in to surround himself with a comfort blanket, rather than tackling problems head-on. Adkins didn't have the steeliness needed for a seriously tough job, with a depressed & disaffected fanbase, & a playing staff that didn't have enough respect for him.

Yes, he was landed with players who weren't good enough, who were getting payed too much, who were in far too much of a comfort zone. Why not make an example of one or two of them though (like Clough did with Collins, say)? Why not criticize poor performance, rather than endlessly justifying & excusing it?

He avoided problems (including trimming the squad), rather than tackling them. With the shameful end result that United finished 11th in Division Three.

Did he do enough to get another go? Subjective and a question that divides opinion. I think a little over 60% voted for him to stay though (much like Clough). According to Barney that means that the fans ‘unanimously’(ish) wanted them to stay and as such, a ‘competent board’ would have kept them.

 

[Barney]

Yes, people are pleased with the retained list overall but there have been posters suggesting any one of McEveley, Flynn, JCR, Freeman, Diego etc. should get another crack. Ergo unequivocally not unanimous. So you were wrong. The majority wanting something does not make it unanimous. It’s also strange that you use it as an argument that something should happen. After all, the majority on the poll wanted both Adkins and Clough to remain in charge. So surely by your logic, the board dropped another bollock sacking Adkins right?

Most people wanted Clough to stay at the time, but a poll after the sacking suggested the majority thought it was the right decision all things considered. I'd suspect you'd find the same with Adkins .

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Most people wanted Clough to stay at the time, but a poll after the sacking suggested the majority thought it was the right decision all things considered. I'd suspect you'd find the same with Adkins .

Did it? Do you have a link? Do you mean after Adkins was appointed or immediately after the sacking?

 

[Barney]

Did it? Do you have a link? Do you mean after Adkins was appointed or immediately after the sacking?

Fuck knows - it's in there somewhere, I can't be bothered sifting through thread after thread to find it.

 

[blade too long]

I don't think you are too harsh.

It's just lazy. He could have taken a fortnight (he started a month before pre-season) and watched ALL of our previous season matches as 'homework'. That would have been more than enough to evaluate who could be of use. Arriving to a squad of 40+ with a 'let's have a look what they can do' attitude was ridiculous. At least Wilder has been decisive to date.
.

when you look that a portuguese bloke came to hillsborough and cut out this deadwood
Date from Position Nationality Name To Fee Ref.
1 July 2015 RB Lewis Buxton Rotherham United [a] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CM Giles Coke Ipswich Town https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_Sheffield_Wednesday_F.C._season#cite_note-27 Released [20]
1 July 2015 CM Paul Corry Northampton Town [c] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CB Rafael Floro Belenenses [d] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CB Dejan Kelhar Olimpija Ljubljana [e] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CF Gary Madine Bolton Wanderers [f] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 AM Jacques Maghoma Birmingham City [g] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 LB Joe Mattock Rotherham United [h] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CM Rhys McCabe Dunfermline Athletic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_Sheffield_Wednesday_F.C._season#cite_note-41 Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 RB Matt Young Dover Athletic [j] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CB Kamil Zayatte Al-Raed [k] Free transfer [20]
2 July 2015 GK Chris Kirkland Preston North End [l] Free transfer [32]
2 July 2015 CF Chris Maguire Rotherham United [m] Free transfer [34]
1 September 2015 CF Stevie May Preston North End Undisclosed [35]
1 February 2016 LB Rhoys Wiggins Bournemouth £200,000 [36]

its was lazy and unforgiveable that Adkins came to the Lane and failed miserably to get rid of at least half as big a pile of shit as this is 7 or 8

 

[Dec]

Fuck knows - it's in there somewhere, I can't be bothered sifting through thread after thread to find it.

http://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/clough-poll.39845/

Just fancied testing the search feature... pretty good.

 

[BushBlade]

Unanimous is an absolute term. Something can’t be fairly unanimous. It is either unanimous or it is not. In this case, it is not.

It's like being pregnant. You can't be a bit pregnant.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

when you look that a portuguese bloke came to hillsborough and cut out this deadwood
Date from Position Nationality Name To Fee Ref.
1 July 2015 RB Lewis Buxton Rotherham United [a] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CM Giles Coke Ipswich Town Released [20]
1 July 2015 CM Paul Corry Northampton Town [c] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CB Rafael Floro Belenenses [d] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CB Dejan Kelhar Olimpija Ljubljana [e] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CF Gary Madine Bolton Wanderers [f] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 AM Jacques Maghoma Birmingham City [g] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 LB Joe Mattock Rotherham United [h] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CM Rhys McCabe Dunfermline Athletic Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 RB Matt Young Dover Athletic [j] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CB Kamil Zayatte Al-Raed [k] Free transfer [20]
2 July 2015 GK Chris Kirkland Preston North End [l] Free transfer [32]
2 July 2015 CF Chris Maguire Rotherham United [m] Free transfer [34]
1 September 2015 CF Stevie May Preston North End Undisclosed [35]
1 February 2016 LB Rhoys Wiggins Bournemouth £200,000 [36]

its was lazy and unforgiveable that Adkins came to the Lane and failed miserably to get rid of at least half as big a pile of shit as this is 7 or 8

Carlos Carvalhal is a head coach though, not a manager and their retained list was done before he was appointed.

 

[The Crab]

It's like being pregnant. You can't be a bit pregnant.

Thought I was, but then realised that in actual fact i'm just a fat bastard.

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

Didn't THE PIGS start off last season with a committee of twats who soon left?

Pearson, Wilkinson, Roeder.

On board before the waiter took the job on?

 

[PeteBlade]

when you look that a portuguese bloke came to hillsborough and cut out this deadwood
Date from Position Nationality Name To Fee Ref.
1 July 2015 RB Lewis Buxton Rotherham United [a] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CM Giles Coke Ipswich Town Released [20]
1 July 2015 CM Paul Corry Northampton Town [c] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CB Rafael Floro Belenenses [d] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CB Dejan Kelhar Olimpija Ljubljana [e] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CF Gary Madine Bolton Wanderers [f] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 AM Jacques Maghoma Birmingham City [g] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 LB Joe Mattock Rotherham United [h] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CM Rhys McCabe Dunfermline Athletic Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 RB Matt Young Dover Athletic [j] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CB Kamil Zayatte Al-Raed [k] Free transfer [20]
2 July 2015 GK Chris Kirkland Preston North End [l] Free transfer [32]
2 July 2015 CF Chris Maguire Rotherham United [m] Free transfer [34]
1 September 2015 CF Stevie May Preston North End Undisclosed [35]
1 February 2016 LB Rhoys Wiggins Bournemouth £200,000 [36]

its was lazy and unforgiveable that Adkins came to the Lane and failed miserably to get rid of at least half as big a pile of shit as this is 7 or 8

Another cut and paste job.
If only you understood what 'free transfer' meant.

 

[blade too long]

Another cut and paste job.
If only you understood what 'free transfer' meant.

I do
but I wished you understood how little what players are paid by us matters in moving them on
if we dont give them games they move on to play and earn bonuses

our players we are trying to offload arent on millions
their basic non appearance money wages with us can be bettered

 

[PeteBlade]

I do
but I wished you understood how little what players are paid by us matters in moving them on
if we dont give them games they move on to play and earn bonuses

our players we are trying to offload arent on millions
their basic non appearance money wages with us can be bettered

It matters a hell of a lot, a blind, deaf and dumb donkey could understand this.

They won't move for the sake of it for shit money.

No one claimed they were millionaires.

They can't, they'd have to take pay cuts, that's the point.

 

[blade too long]

It matters a hell of a lot, a blind, deaf and dumb donkey could understand this.

They won't move for the sake of it for shit money.

No one claimed they were millionaires.

They can't, they'd have to take pay cuts, that's the point.

So your under the impression no footballer has ever in the history of football moved on and took a pay cut


really
thats your premise

fuck me and you call me dumb
ring up the pro footballers association and ask if any of their members have ever moved on for less pay

give them an hour to stop laughing

ring up Beattie and ask him how much more money he was on at Accrington to what we payed him

 

[PeteBlade]

So your under the impression no footballer has ever in the history of football moved on and took a pay cut


really
thats your premise

fuck me and you call me dumb
ring up the pro footballers association and ask if any of their members have ever moved on for less pay

give them an hour to stop laughing

ring up Beattie and ask him how much more money he was on at Accrington to what we payed him

No, that's just your inability to understand a point being spoon fed to you, I've said nothing of the sort.

The rest of your post just backs up the suggestion that you're a bit dim.

 

[blade too long]

No, that's just your inability to understand a point being spoon fed to you, I've said nothing of the sort.

The rest of your post just backs up the suggestion that you're a bit dim.

well explain whats being spoon fed
that we have players on wages, thatr in the odd case might be higher than atother clubs
like thats never happened before

what are you saying thats so different about our players that makes it impossible to move them on
you keep saying its obvious but dont put it in a sentence, just say Im missing it

just saying they are shit and we pay them more than anyone else would are bogus arguments
millions of footballers move on for less money

how many of the list I posted of the 16 players wednesday got shot of went for higher wages at another club
maybe 1 or 2

I might be a bit dim but you have to get your head from up your arse

 

[PeteBlade]

well explain whats being spoon fed
that we have players on wages, thatr in the odd case might be higher than atother clubs
like thats never happened before

what are you saying thats so different about our players that makes it impossible to move them on
you keep saying its obvious but dont put it in a sentence, just say Im missing it

just saying they are shit and we pay them more than anyone else would are bogus arguments
millions of footballers move on for less money

how many of the list I posted of the 16 players wednesday got shot of went for higher wages at another club
maybe 1 or 2

I might be a bit dim but you have to get your head from up your arse

Sigh, I'll spell it out one last time, and try just to read what I've said and not add your own parts.

My point is that it's not simple to release contracted players on high wages as you have suggested.

I haven't said it's impossible. I haven't said it can't be done. I haven't said others can't and haven't done it.

We pay higher wages than most in this division. You've commented on this yourself. So clearing them out isn't simple.

They don't earn millions. But they earn decent. They have families, they have mortgages. They aren't going to just take massive pay cuts to keep playing football without taking all these other factors into account.

Ergo it's not simple to get rid of them.

My point is that it's not simple. You make out that it's easy to get rid.


My point is that it's not simple.
It isn't simple.

To get rid of these players is not simple.

This is the last time I'll attempt to explain this to you.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I think the horse is dead. Maybe time to stop flogging it

 

[blade too long]

again you summise , or guess the players we want to release are all on a kings ransome
surely theres differing scales of pay
surely theres some on the list who can be got rid of
surely even if they are on say 4k a week , they know inevitabely they will be on less sooner or later so theyd go to get appearance money and bonuses that make up their pay
rather than be on a flat rate for a short period

again how many other clubs dont have players they want to move on that are stealing wages as they see it
we are no different to any club

if they are on a basic say 500 more than elsewhere, but not playing what is the point
footballers want to play, so they say
if I werent playing Id leave no matter what
if you are on 35 k a week different matter
but we dont have anyone in that bracket

you saying we cant sell them is wrong
teams move out crap players all the time ,
wages in football go up and go down any pro accepts that

most loan players take a drop in pay all the time , just to play

 

[Sean Thornton]

if you are under contract, you don't have to go anywhere if you don't want to. Irrespective of the club wanting you out.

 

[PeteBlade]

if you are under contract, you don't have to go anywhere if you don't want to. Irrespective of the club wanting you out.

I'll let you pick this up. I've tried my best, I'm out.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Is it too far fetched to think that, on the one hand, we were admittedly lumbered with stacks of players on overinflated contracts but, on the other, Adkins wasn't nearly proactive enough in seeking to get more off the books permanently than a few scraggy youths, Craig Alcock and the prized Jamie Murphy?

 

[CarlMcBlade]

The fact that Adkins has been sacked for such abject failure last season has served the purpose of affording CW the luxury of swinging the axe without fear. Unfortunate for Adkins but great for the club. If CW had got the job last summer he to might have been tempted to give the players a chance just like a Adkins did. Last seasons debacle was a necessary evil, it's given everybody a clearer idea of the personnel required to get this club up.