Phipps

[Jon Bon II]

Grey areas don't exist in 2021 unfortunately.

Try telling that to my beard....

#justformen

 

[The Crab]

The transfer policy has worked great up until this season. The same transfer policy got us from league one to the premier league. That would suggest the transfer policy has been a success.
Reading the local article tonight it would seem given the position we finished the wage structure was going to go up in the managers eyes. It didn’t.

Kind of get what you are saying, but the Premier League, in my view, is a few orders of magnitude above in terms of certain demands. With the best will in the world, what works in League 1 and the Champ, might not be so in the prem.

It's a little bit like saying because I'm decent at selling stuff at Antiques Fairs, it means I could run Amazon.

 

[Yogi]

Both sides have been at it since January. Wilder's been using his press conferences to have a go. None of it should be aired in public.

I agree. I don’t care who started it I would’ve expected the club to finish it not stoop to wit, of Biggs or whoever’s level and fight it out in the mud.

 

[The Crab]

Try telling that to my beard....

#justformen

 

[robbiez666]

Wages aren't the managers job. He gives his list and they get voted on. just like the other power brokers on the committee. Then they negotiate if his suggestions get the green light. There's many creative ways around wages anyway as I'm sure you're aware. Our squad is not 100% Wilder signings.

Aside from Berge?

 

[BettingBlade]

Wages aren't the managers job. He gives his list and they get voted on. just like the other power brokers on the committee. Then they negotiate if his suggestions get the green light. There's many creative ways around wages anyway as I'm sure you're aware. Our squad is not 100% Wilder signings.

Wilder has consistently said for the last 5 years that he is aware that there is a clear wage structure in place. I never said he was responsible for setting it, I said he was aware it existed and has had discussions surrounding it. He therefore understands that to keep the club sustainable we need to remain within that wage structure.

The point is, we can’t compete in terms of wages on Wilder’s first choice targets. That’s no ones fault, that’s just the way it is. Instead Wilder has gone for third and fourth choices, within his wage structure, but hasn’t necessarily got value for money.

It appears that the board have allowed him to do this, despite being of the opinion we could seek better value by expanding our scouting network.

Deciding not to sign a player due to not being able to afford the wages is not the same as vetoing a player the board don’t like. We can’t say for sure but from the outside looking in, it would appear an effort has been made to sign every name that Wilder has put forward.

I think we’re dancing around the veto point tbh but I do agree with some of your points. The board do have the power to say no to certain signings if they so wish but I can’t see that the Prince would have done that until very recently. So in a sense I agree that the targets are agreed at board level but imo I think Wilder has largely driven the targets.

 

[Going t lane]

Different era of football imo.

Do we really need a DOF in the championship, Wilders bread &butter leagues below premiership.

 

[Yogi]

Wouldn’t you rather have this and accept it for where it has come from and understand the agenda rather than a bland statement on the website and lots of speculation, at least it is pretty clear where one side is coming from.

No because what we speculate on here, or twitter or wherever is just that and has very little basis in fact and that’s fine. I don’t necessarily want the club to issue a bland statement it could say whatever it wanted and I could agree or disagree with it depending on what it was. But I care about it coming from the club not outside voices because if we allow someone not directly employed by the club to dictate the narrative on events going on at the club then it’s sets a precedent that in the future could allow fans to be manipulated in one way or another whilst those employed by the club maintain plausible deniability.

 

[BettingBlade]

The transfer policy has worked great up until this season. The same transfer policy got us from league one to the premier league. That would suggest the transfer policy has been a success.
Reading the local article tonight it would seem given the position we finished the wage structure was going to go up in the managers eyes. It didn’t.

Hmm it has but there have also been some hit and miss signings along the way. Ryan Leonard, Ricky Holmes, Lee Evans.....etc. Although overall the good signings clearly outweigh the misses hence we’ve ended up in the Premier League so yeah I agree it’s been a success up until this point.

However I think the big difference is the higher up the chain you go the bigger the gamble you have to take and of course with that comes higher transfer fees and higher wages. I don’t think it’s any secret that we can’t afford the wages for the very best of the pool of players we’re looking at. The problem is, the not so good signings at this level are magnified ten fold and I think that’s where perhaps the Prince is looking for compromise in terms of an expanded scouting network and maybe trying to limit the financial risk should a signing not quite work out.

 

[riselikeasalmon]

No because what we speculate on here, or twitter or wherever is just that and has very little basis in fact and that’s fine. I don’t necessarily want the club to issue a bland statement it could say whatever it wanted and I could agree or disagree with it depending on what it was. But I care about it coming from the club not outside voices because if we allow someone not directly employed by the club to dictate the narrative on events going on at the club then it’s sets a precedent that in the future could allow fans to be manipulated in one way or another whilst those employed by the club maintain plausible deniability.

But he’s the ex co chairman and Prince’s lawyer, he’s not an outside voice esp not with the content of that post, it’s leaks to the budget, Markle interview, etc etc etc it’s 2021

 

[BettingBlade]

Do we really need a DOF in the championship, Wilders bread &butter leagues below premiership.

As much as I’ve talked about changing the transfer strategy on this thread I actually agree with this point. How many other clubs were looking at David McGoldrick in that promotion season?

Maybe the dynamic would have changed as we were no longer the underdog but I certainly think he was the best man for the job to get us back up. Just look at the potential names. I wouldn’t want any of them over CW next season.

 

[robbiez666]

There's a huge point here. You can't slag your boss off repeatedly in public and keep getting away with it. Using your platform as an employee of a club to keep making sly digs. Try and get your own way by suggesting things in the press. Publicly having strops and trying to use fan power to blackmail your boss. However good you are at your job. Even if you are doing it for a good reason. Is your boss going to keep putting up with it? Especially when your performance at work has taking a nosedive.

 

[Yogi]

But he’s the ex co chairman and Prince’s lawyer, he’s not an outside voice esp not with the content of that post, it’s leaks to the budget, Markle interview, etc etc etc it’s 2021

But he himself has many times and at great length said that he is no longer paid by the club and doesn’t ask for insider knowledge even though I concede his actions suggest otherwise. And that is the crux of my issue he is acting as a company man and here a very well informed mouth piece but can turn around and say he isn’t an employee which is correct. What he says now as an outsider is more accepted than what he said as an employee certainly in his latter days because we as fans have a healthy distrust of official correspondence but are very receptive to online ITK’s especially those with a proven record. For example if during the summer he was active Richard Cadette had come on here bad mouthing either wilder or the prince with some insider “knowledge” of fall outs or bad habits would he have been believed? He probably would have been given his track record and that would’ve affect how the fans perceived the clubs. That’s why clubs generally move to identify and shut down any genuine ITK’s but Jim’s personal relationship protects him in this instance.

Now I’m not saying this will happen I hope the prince has a long and successful reign as united owner but ownerships have soured in the past and will do in the future just look across town. In such a circumstance a loud and prominent figure who’s insider credibility is well established amongst the fan base could go some way to controlling the narrative whilst allowing the club to disavow them at any time as they aren’t an employee. I’m not saying that will ever happen I’m not saying that’s Jim and or the prince because there’s nothing to say it is. But to allow such an individual to exist especially unchallenged isn’t a good thing.

 

[Robboblade1889]

There's a huge point here. You can't slag your boss off repeatedly in public and keep getting away with it. Using your platform as an employee of a club to keep making sly digs. Try and get your own way by suggesting things in the press. Publicly having strops and trying to use fan power to blackmail your boss. However good you are at your job. Even if you are doing it for a good reason. Is your boss going to keep putting up with it? Especially when your performance at work has taking a nosedive.

I keep hearing this can you show us these quotes where he has slagged off the owner repeatedly? Shouldn’t be too hard to find he seems to when done it in every interview according to some.

 

[riselikeasalmon]

But he himself has many times and at great length said that he is no longer paid by the club and doesn’t ask for insider knowledge even though I concede his actions suggest otherwise. And that is the crux of my issue he is acting as a company man and here a very well informed mouth piece but can turn around and say he isn’t an employee which is correct. What he says now as an outsider is more accepted than what he said as an employee certainly in his latter days because we as fans have a healthy distrust of official correspondence but are very receptive to online ITK’s especially those with a proven record. For example if during the summer he was active Richard Cadette had come on here bad mouthing either wilder or the prince with some insider “knowledge” of fall outs or bad habits would he have been believed? He probably would have been given his track record and that would’ve affect how the fans perceived the clubs. That’s why clubs generally move to identify and shut down any genuine ITK’s but Jim’s personal relationship protects him in this instance.

Now I’m not saying this will happen I hope the prince has a long and successful reign as united owner but ownerships have soured in the past and will do in the future just look across town. In such a circumstance a loud and prominent figure who’s insider credibility is well established amongst the fan base could go some way to controlling the narrative whilst allowing the club to disavow them at any time as they aren’t an employee. I’m not saying that will ever happen I’m not saying that’s Jim and or the prince because there’s nothing to say it is. But to allow such an individual to exist especially unchallenged isn’t a good thing.

Totally agree and that’s what I meant by understanding the agenda and where it’s come from.
Jim and Darren are part of the Princes PR machine, read their posts but understand that PA understands the shitstorm coming when our best manager in my 41 supporting years leaves, he needs to get his message out there or it’ll be (socially distanced) shoes off in the car park.
There’s no going back with social media, but I am surprised that such publically close connections to PA have been so vocal so early.

And I’d still rather understand (from both sides) how it has come to CW leaving and make my own judgement on more information than just read he has left by mutual consent and forget about it.

but if I was CW reading Jim’s post I’d be mighty pissed off and I think it leaves the floor open to him to give his side using whatever means he can, he’ll get plenty of support and PA might regret starting a war.

 

[Yogi]

Totally agree and that’s what I meant by understanding the agenda and where it’s come from.
Jim and Darren are part of the Princes PR machine, read their posts but understand that PA understands the shitstorm coming when our best manager in my 41 supporting years leaves, he needs to get his message out there or it’ll be (socially distanced) shoes off in the car park.
There’s no going back with social media, but I am surprised that such publically close connections to PA have been so vocal so early.

And I’d still rather understand (from both sides) how it has come to CW leaving and make my own judgement on more information than just read he has left by mutual consent and forget about it.

but if I was CW reading Jim’s post I’d be mighty pissed off and I think it leaves the floor open to him to give his side using whatever means he can, he’ll get plenty of support and PA might regret starting a war.

That’s fair enough I understand your point of view and the value in knowing the lens through which each side would like the event to be viewed and the insight into their motivations it provides, it is certainly interesting and I don’t necessarily disagree.

I just worry a time could come when Jim or Darren completely dominates the narrative. It’s unlikely any future manager will play this leaking game like wilder has I haven’t seen many other do it to this extent. In that case and at a more successful time what’s said by the princes friends might not be questioned quite as thoroughly as this is time round.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Whilst eloquently put by Jim, I think as a set of points, it fails to acknowledge a few things:

1. Broken promises or compromises on the Prince's part that may have damaged trusted. It positions Wilder as merely emotionally reactive.
2. That Wilder has transformed this club despite the lack of resources up to the PL era. The Prince is lucky to have him.
3. The club could conduct itself better.
4. Fuck, I've forgotten, I've had too many beers and then port.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Totally agree and that’s what I meant by understanding the agenda and where it’s come from.
Jim and Darren are part of the Princes PR machine, read their posts but understand that PA understands the shitstorm coming when our best manager in my 41 supporting years leaves, he needs to get his message out there or it’ll be (socially distanced) shoes off in the car park.
There’s no going back with social media, but I am surprised that such publically close connections to PA have been so vocal so early.

And I’d still rather understand (from both sides) how it has come to CW leaving and make my own judgement on more information than just read he has left by mutual consent and forget about it.

but if I was CW reading Jim’s post I’d be mighty pissed off and I think it leaves the floor open to him to give his side using whatever means he can, he’ll get plenty of support and PA might regret starting a war.

Absolutely spot on mate, I read it all with a pinch of salt. It's PR and puppetry from the Prince, IMO.

If the Prince starts a war, he'll lose because we Blades will back our fellow Blade to the hilt.

 

[The Bear]

We don't; we have a transfer committee in which signings can be recommended for everyone and are voted on by all members - one being Van Winkel. They are all responsible for the signings. If CW wants player A and the majority want B - he gets B. That's why the comments re signings are disingenuous in the extreme.

Remember that process being discussed after Clough left at a fans forum with McCabe saying this is how it would happen.

 

[Sean Thornton]

But he himself has many times and at great length said that he is no longer paid by the club and doesn’t ask for insider knowledge even though I concede his actions suggest otherwise. And that is the crux of my issue he is acting as a company man and here a very well informed mouth piece but can turn around and say he isn’t an employee which is correct. What he says now as an outsider is more accepted than what he said as an employee certainly in his latter days because we as fans have a healthy distrust of official correspondence but are very receptive to online ITK’s especially those with a proven record. For example if during the summer he was active Richard Cadette had come on here bad mouthing either wilder or the prince with some insider “knowledge” of fall outs or bad habits would he have been believed? He probably would have been given his track record and that would’ve affect how the fans perceived the clubs. That’s why clubs generally move to identify and shut down any genuine ITK’s but Jim’s personal relationship protects him in this instance.

Now I’m not saying this will happen I hope the prince has a long and successful reign as united owner but ownerships have soured in the past and will do in the future just look across town. In such a circumstance a loud and prominent figure who’s insider credibility is well established amongst the fan base could go some way to controlling the narrative whilst allowing the club to disavow them at any time as they aren’t an employee. I’m not saying that will ever happen I’m not saying that’s Jim and or the prince because there’s nothing to say it is. But to allow such an individual to exist especially unchallenged isn’t a good thing.

The same could be said of Wit, although arguably to a lesser extent. Managers best mate.

 

[tyke1889]

A fight between Wit and Phipps would be interesting.

I suspect Wit would win easily, but it would be entertaining

Don't forget that Jim's a right wing American. There will be guns involved

 

[robbiez666]

The same could be said of Wit, although arguably to a lesser extent. Managers best mate.

Also Biggs et al in the local press. The last leak was just yesterday.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

Grey areas don't exist in 2021 unfortunately.

Both in terms of a nuanced point of view and brain matter, unfortunately.

 

[Superblades]

Well that took a bit longer than I expected but pretty much as predicted. Jim Phipps giving his opinion on this is the same as asking Dermot Gallagher if it was a penalty against Fulham.
The man has no real affinity to United, oh so he says some nice shit on Twitter every now and again. Believe me if/when the Prince goes he won’t be far behind him.
Its funny how Phipps never mentions the training ground and lack of work carried out on it and the fact the manager wanted another pitch on the training ground but was told no. It’s also funny how he never mentions the signing Wilder wanted or the fact that the only reason his mate is managing a premier league club is because of Chris Wilder. He also fails to mention his mate hasn’t put in a penny of his own money. The money invested was all earned on the pitch.
Believe me when the shit hits the fan and the supporters then turn on the owner tour won’t see Jim Phipps for dust.

The training ground was in place. Do you still expect them to go ahead with those plans when we are facing a certain relegation? I’d personally put those plans on hold and any funds we have available go towards the team and getting us back promoted. Once promoted, start with the training ground plans again.

 

[Superblades]

There is always two sides to every story but I don't think Jim Phipps statement is very helpful at this moment in time although it does raise a few valid points. On the other hand Wilder having digs at the owner and boardroom in press interviews does him no favours either. At the moment none of us know what has gone off and we may never know fully so I really don't see the point of taking sides.
What we do know is Wilder has been backed more than any Sheffield United manager and it is fair to say this seasons recruitment has been at best very poor as have team selections and tactics. If he has been sacked he has brought a lot of it down on himself. I can understand the reluctance to throw more money at him in January when we were as good as already relegated.
I would prefer Wilder to stay at the club if he was the same Wilder who got us the promotions sadly all season we have only seen a defensive Wilder who when we lose goes on and on about how much better the other team are and how they have spent much more than we have. Errr weren't we one of the top seven spenders over the summer if you count incomings against out goings?

That’s exactly how I feel about it all.

 

[lazyfecklessblade]

I’m sure one day we’ll hear the other version. Truth is probably somewhere in between the 2. Just a terrible shame all parties were too entrenched to come to an agreement.

Surely it would have made sense to park these issues for a year so we at least had our best shot of doing something in the championship.

 

[McGrath]

And I wouldn’t argue with any of that. Wilders successes proved he didn’t need one then. Does the failure this season mean that it’s raised it’s head again?
Rather than let him go now, I’d keep him for next season, DoF free, and see where we go. Especially since the names on offer are depressingly familiar, unconvincing.

It's crazy. We risk losing a manager who's taken us from League One crapness almost to Europe on a limited budget in hardly any time and it now seems the reason he might be leaving is because the board want to force players and a Director of Football on him.

Why weren't they bothered about a Director of Football when Weir, Clough or Adkins were manager. Why wait until we get a good manager before deciding to piss him off?

 

[Black Cloud]

Reading the Phipps statement, which was very well versed, confirmed what I think we knew. Chris is stubborn to the extreme, wants total control and does not readily accept help or advice....like a lot of managers. I absolutely love the bloke but he’s been the architect of his own downfall. I did post on here recently that the transfer business over the past 12-18 months would be his undoing.
The facts aren’t helping me digest the reality though, we have lost our greatest ever manager, albeit a stubborn one...

 

[lakedistblade]

The idea of not betting the farm by spending on big wage players, rocking the boat with our core lower wage players has been forgotten after last seasons success. Wilder wanted the club to show ambition but this has to be balanced against the sort of recklessness that has seen Sunderland type declines. Unless your owner has very deep pockets it’s near on impossible to stay in the prem league as a promoted club. This reality has collided with wilders ambition to be a prem league manager and something had to give. I’m sorry wilder is leaving but not sorry that Prince wants to be a prudential owner. wilder has called out owners throughout his career but this time it was a step too far and I am not unhappy with the backing and strategy employed by PA. Be interesting to see how wilder does if he is given a chance to manage some big ego players - not a challenge he has had so far. We are Sufc not wilder fc and whilst I know he is a supporter in the end his ambition, ego and greed to pick up 7 million have quite understandably demonstrated he is a fallible normal man looking out for number one just like we all do, not some kind of folk hero. Remember that response when asked if he would still be managing when he was 70?

 

[Broomhall Blade]

Absolutely spot on mate, I read it all with a pinch of salt. It's PR and puppetry from the Prince, IMO.

If the Prince starts a war, he'll lose because we Blades will back our fellow Blade to the hilt.

What even if Wilder is in the wrong.
There are always two sides to every story and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle of them.
I doubt it will happen but we really need both parties to tell us their honest version no spin of what's gone on for the club to move on and for us to become United (Sorry for the pun).