Will the Saudi Consortium

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Kanye said:
Well I'm not exactly chuffed that we indirectly benefit from Saudi money in the channels that you describe, however the issue about being state owned, rather than privately owned is the key distinction.

The prince is a human being, we can argue about his privilege and whether or not you think he deserves his personal wealth. At the end of the day though, he represents himself, not his nation, and the money he invests is his own. I don't know him personally, and it would be unfair of me to comment on his character or morality.

The actions of the Saudi Arabia as a state are well documented, and their morality is far less ambiguous. Hence the distinction.
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So you can be appalled by the morality of the ruling family of Saudi Arabia, but not by the morality of one of its members who has never publicly distanced himself from said family, who served the political ends of said family, and who managed to get where he is today in part due to the immense wealth of said family and their patronage of one of their own?
Personally I have no problem with the Prince, but then I’m not going to be as two-faced as to defend him on the one hand whilst complaining about the political stance of his family - of which he is still a part - on the other. This isn’t like the bin Ladens where one black sheep sullied the whole family name.
 



Le Cynique said:
So you can be appalled by the morality of the ruling family of Saudi Arabia, but not by the morality of one of its members who has never publicly distanced himself from said family, who served the political ends of said family, and who managed to get where he is today in part due to the immense wealth of said family and their patronage of one of their own?
Personally I have no problem with the Prince, but then I’m not going to be as two-faced as to defend him on the one hand whilst complaining about the political stance of his family - of which he is still a part - on the other. This isn’t like the bin Ladens where one black sheep sullied the whole family name.
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I don't pass judgement on the morality of the prince because I don't know him. Without knowing anything about him that isn't on his wikipedia page, it would be unfair to.

Him being related to the crown prince isn't a reflection on his own character either. He isnt responsible for the Saudi's human rights record, nor do I blame Tony Blair's 2nd cousin for the war in Iraq.
How far do we take your guilty by association logic anyway? Hundreds of millions of men across the world are descendants of Ghengis Khan - shall we charge them with war crimes?
 
Harrisblade said:
The problem seemed to be more about the Saudi Govt and Premier League tv rights, so not really about Newcastle as a club.
Same problems will apply if they come to us.
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This. from what I read, the Saudi govt has effectively endorsed piracy of TV in the region. They can't do that and then be part of the organisation being damaged. It's going to be difficult for them to buy anyone unless that changes
 
Kanye said:
I don't pass judgement on the morality of the prince because I don't know him. Without knowing anything about him that isn't on his wikipedia page, it would be unfair to.

Him being related to the crown prince isn't a reflection on his own character either. He isnt responsible for the Saudi's human rights record, nor do I blame Tony Blair's 2nd cousin for the war in Iraq.
How far do we take your guilty by association logic anyway? Hundreds of millions of men across the world are descendants of Ghengis Khan - shall we charge them with war crimes?
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He literally served the ruling family of SA, politically. I’m not saying he has the blood of Khasoggi on his hands personally, but he was a part of that regime as the sports minister. I’m not sure why you’re finding this so difficult to understand.
As far as I’m aware, Tony Blair’s second cousin wasn’t part of Blair’s government that took us to war in Iraq, so that argument is utterly invalid.
 
blade67 said:
This. from what I read, the Saudi govt has effectively endorsed piracy of TV in the region. They can't do that and then be part of the organisation being damaged. It's going to be difficult for them to buy anyone unless that changes
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The reason that they endorsed it was to get back at Qatar as through BeIN (Aka Al Jazeera) they own a lot of the worldwide rights until 2022 (I think) in the Middle East. During the last World Cup this pirate football tv channel pops up and a lot of the Middle Eastern customers didn’t pay for BeIN. There was little or no attempt to close down the channel by the Saudi government as it was (I suspect) partly approved by them in order to undermine Qatar.

Saudi managed to reduce the income for the Qataris and thought they were too powerful to face the consequences. It seems that they are now facing the consequences.
 
Le Cynique said:
He literally served the ruling family of SA, politically. I’m not saying he has the blood of Khasoggi on his hands personally, but he was a part of that regime as the sports minister. I’m not sure why you’re finding this so difficult to understand.
As far as I’m aware, Tony Blair’s second cousin wasn’t part of Blair’s government that took us to war in Iraq, so that argument is utterly invalid.
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You wouldn't accuse Tony Blair's minister for sport of war crimes though
 
Personally I doubt there are many supporters who support or stop supporting a team because of it's owners, unless the owners start thinking it's their club and not the fans.
Owners come and go but the fans are the hart of a club,, you may change who the new ones are but the majority of those will be fair weather, the core are the one's who will still be there when it hits the fan and the money men move on for a better return on their investment.
As for anyone with issues about accepting any dodgy overseas money, as it says in the book, "Let him without sin cast the first stone", and I'll guarantee he's a liar, even if he don't know it...
 
Le Cynique said:
He literally served the ruling family of SA, politically. I’m not saying he has the blood of Khasoggi on his hands personally, but he was a part of that regime as the sports minister. I’m not sure why you’re finding this so difficult to understand.
As far as I’m aware, Tony Blair’s second cousin wasn’t part of Blair’s government that took us to war in Iraq, so that argument is utterly invalid.
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I understand he was the sports minister, in fact, if you'd read my posts on this thread you would see that I admitted how uneasy I felt during that period.

My point is that while an individual who briefly held a political position (a position with likely no influence with regards to the foreign policy or human rights issues) may be undesirable to some, its infinitely better than being owned by the state itself.

Me and you can argue about whether or not the prince owning the club is something we should be concerned about, and I'm sure you'll continue to make plenty of good points. What I don't think you can argue is that being owned by the Saudi state is in any way better, it's much, much worse.
 
Bennyand the Blades said:
.
As for anyone with issues about accepting any dodgy overseas money, as it says in the book, "Let him without sin cast the first stone", and I'll guarantee he's a liar, even if he don't know it...
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There's sins, then there's sins.

I'm no angel, but I don't have to be to tell that what the KSA is doing is reprehensible.
 
bertieblade said:
Let’s not have anyone called Kray, some distant relative used to be a gangster in London and there were two of them.
Some of the arguments on here are beyond the realms of common sense.
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’And I’ll tell you what, them Saudis wouldn’t be committing human rights atrocities, if the twins were still abart. They was good hearted boys they was, loved their old Mam as well’ 😉
 
Bennyand the Blades said:
Personally I doubt there are many supporters who support or stop supporting a team because of it's owners, unless the owners start thinking it's their club and not the fans.
Owners come and go but the fans are the hart of a club,, you may change who the new ones are but the majority of those will be fair weather, the core are the one's who will still be there when it hits the fan and the money men move on for a better return on their investment.
As for anyone with issues about accepting any dodgy overseas money, as it says in the book, "Let him without sin cast the first stone", and I'll guarantee he's a liar, even if he don't know it...
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That's a balanced view. I feel that Owners are to be endured rather than praised. But, fans are on a spectrum. It's too easy to portray it as

"you've got a problem with Saudi money in our club have you, what, are you saying the prince is a war criminal"

"you've got a problem with Saudi money in our club, have you, what, do you want him to walk away immediately, leaving us to bankruptcy"

"you've got a problem with Saudi money in our club, what, you'd prefer McCabe back would you"

It's not all extremes & polarisation. I don't have a problem with the prince, never met him, never been to his palace. I do feel that Saudi princes get an obvious leg up in business. He's not grown up in a Riyadh suburb & started his business in his kitchen, building it up from scratch, working all the hours Allah sends. His money comes from being part of the Saudi elite. I'd prefer not to have that money invested in my club. So, I'm looking forward to the day that investment is gone. And, I'm a Big Boy. I realise that might mean out of the frying pan into the fire. And, if it is the fire, then eventually, I'll want that burning money gone from my club as well.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
That's a balanced view. I feel that Owners are to be endured rather than praised. But, fans are on a spectrum. It's too easy to portray it as

"you've got a problem with Saudi money in our club have you, what, are you saying the prince is a war criminal"

"you've got a problem with Saudi money in our club, have you, what, do you want him to walk away immediately, leaving us to bankruptcy"

"you've got a problem with Saudi money in our club, what, you'd prefer McCabe back would you"

It's not all extremes & polarisation. I don't have a problem with the prince, never met him, never been to his palace. I do feel that Saudi princes get an obvious leg up in business. He's not grown up in a Riyadh suburb & started his business in his kitchen, building it up from scratch, working all the hours Allah sends. His money comes from being part of the Saudi elite. I'd prefer not to have that money invested in my club. So, I'm looking forward to the day that investment is gone. And, I'm a Big Boy. I realise that might mean out of the frying pan into the fire. And, if it is the fire, then eventually, I'll want that burning money gone from my club as well.
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Football fans are generally very good at ignoring how their club is funded.

I've always been of the view that anyone rich enough to bankroll even a small professional team has probably done a few "interesting" things. But defending human rights records to justify a big signibg is a step too far for me.

Each to their own
 
So, the prevailing view on this thread can be summarised as -

“It’s okay for us first world countries to buy stuff from them third world countries so long as we treat them right. We don’t want them third world countries to buy stuff here because they will taint us with their values.”

This modern day self-righteousness/Puritanism is really something to behold.
 



SittingontheBall said:
So, the prevailing view on this thread can be summarised as -

“It’s okay for us first world countries to buy stuff from them third world countries so long as we treat them right. We don’t want them third world countries to buy stuff here because they will taint us with their values.”

This modern day self-righteousness/Puritanism is really something to behold.
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Has anyone said anything like that, or even close?
 
What a crazy thread this is, have a look at any football club and it's money will have been washed somewhere along the line. For those who are so anti Saudi Arabia does that stop you filling you car up with petrol every week of course it doesn't. How would you feel if we had Iranian owners, you know those who along with Russia are backing the rebels in Yemen. Any war is state sponsored murder some of you guys really need to get a grip, of course the West will back the Saudi and coalition forces while ever Iran and Russia are backing rebels to gain more influence in the area. Is Saudi human rights any worse than those of Iran ? or for that matter any other country in the region i don't suppose we will get any answers from Iran the North Korea of the middle east.
 
Grizzly blade said:
OP a little bit edgy while ignoring all the crap that ALL governments commit.

Perhaps we could start in China, where our desire as a country for cheap consumer goods means we can ignore what goes on in their country.
Plus the UK as a country is often complicit in a lot of the apparent atrocities all over the world, if not directly through our own “dodgy” intervention but to supplying one side or another with the armoury to take an advantage that may be favourable to British assets.
All this “Saudi money this...Saudi money that”..totally hypocritical.
Not one of these billionaire types in football hasn’t got where they are without shitting on someone, or breaking the rules. They generally aren’t “decent, good people”

Anyway, that’s my political rant out the way.
The saddest part of all this is the pathetic desperation in the BBC headline regarding the collapse of the deal. Football fans can be fucking morons sometimes. “Heartbroken”...get a fucking grip. “Had a torrid time“ under Ashley while he tried to run the club in a sensible way. The sheer entitlement just because they have little else In Their lives and feel they deserve to win stuff makes my stomach churn. Almost as bad as the dimwit pigs
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I'm so glad that I didn't have read this entire thread to the latter stages, to read something that absolutely mirrors may sentiments about so called dirty money and to where it comes from.
Where do people think that our shirts, football boots, or any other football merchandise that we purchase are manufactured, (probably some sort of sweat shop).
Danetheblade said:
Loving all the "their money is dirty" comments yet people will happily walk round wearing Nike and Adidas whilst also shopping at Primark etc..
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Spot on fella
 
I'd take the investment no problem. If the Saudis can't get it over the line at Newcastle then change the approach and backing our Prince may well be a viable option to them. Depends how serious/determined they are about creating a top class football club in England.
 
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Kanye said:
What point are you trying to make?

When making purchases, I always try to be mindful of what happens in the supply chain. I dont buy clothes made in sweat-shops, I don't buy products made with palm oil etc.
Unfortunately, my smartphone and car likely both contain conflict minerals - I wish that could be avoided.

What relevance does any of the above have to do with supporting investment from the Saudi state?
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The point he made was fairly clear I thought. The logical extension of your (well-meaning) position is lengthy.

It would ultimately result in you foraging, bollock naked, around the woods for berries.
 
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