Will any of our central midfielders ever score again?

[Revolution]

I know I go on about this topic a lot so you'll have to bear with me.

It may be simple minded of me, but to me playing a five man midfield with one poor sod on his own up front equals only one thing: less goals, because you only have one guy up front to do the scoring job, and if you have 2 half decent centre halves they can mark him out of the game, particularly if he's slow (Higdon) or small (McNulty). Even a good player can be nullified - look at Murphy on Saturday.

But I am constantly told that this doesn't matter, because the goals we lose will be compensated for by pressing midfielders drifting into the box. Well, yes, that might happen in the Premier League, but those players don't exist lower down.

However, Clough has since day 1 this season been wedded to 1 man up front and a central midfield 3 unless he gets desperate (when, funnily enough, we do commit men forward and sometimes score). That's all very well if you have midfielders that pop in the occasional goal.

We don't.

Here are the stats: the number of games that people we've had playing in the central midfield 3 have gone since they last scored a goal in the league for us:

Holt - never scored (played one game)
Coutts - never scored (played 2 games)
Ben Davies - 3 games (last goal v Swindon 20 September 2014), and you can argue he's more a wide man
Adams - never scored (played 4 games)
K Wallace - never scored (played 4 games)
J Wallace - never scored (played 10 games). I am amazed that he's actually managed so many games
Cuvilier - never scored (played 10 games)
Scougall - 10 games (last goal v Crewe 25 October 2014)
Reed - never scored (played 13 games)
Baxter -16 games (last goal v Preston 23 August 2014)
Doyle - 30 games (last goal v Swindon 29 March 2014)

This is appalling. I am at a loss to understand why we persist with 3 men in the middle when none of them are a goal threat, bar Davies (who has been out for months) and Baxter, who scored when he was playing further forward than he is now.

If Clough had gone out of his way to collect a bunch of players who were no goal threat collectively, it would have been harder to do a better job. This is poor squad building.

It wouldn't be so bad if they brought other things to the table, but these players rarely create anything (save Reed, recently) and as a bunch are smaller than many Under 16 teams on average.

thank goodness for JCR and Murphy, and McNulty (when he's selected). Without them we'd be in the bottom 6.

 

[Rodders]

I know I go on about this topic a lot so you'll have to bear with me.

It may be simple minded of me, but to me playing a five man midfield with one poor sod on his own up front equals only one thing: less goals, because you only have one guy up front to do the scoring job, and if you have 2 half decent centre halves they can mark him out of the game, particularly if he's slow (Higdon) or small (McNulty). Even a good player can be nullified - look at Murphy on Saturday.

But I am constantly told that this doesn't matter, because the goals we lose will be compensated for by pressing midfielders drifting into the box. Well, yes, that might happen in the Premier League, but those players don't exist lower down.

However, Clough has since day 1 this season been wedded to 1 man up front and a central midfield 3 unless he gets desperate (when, funnily enough, we do commit men forward and sometimes score). That's all very well if you have midfielders that pop in the occasional goal.

We don't.

Here are the stats: the number of games that people we've had playing in the central midfield 3 have gone since they last scored a goal in the league for us:

Holt - never scored (played one game)
Coutts - never scored (played 2 games)
Ben Davies - 3 games (last goal v Swindon 20 September 2014), and you can argue he's more a wide man
Adams - never scored (played 4 games)
K Wallace - never scored (played 4 games)
J Wallace - never scored (played 10 games). I am amazed that he's actually managed so many games
Cuvilier - never scored (played 10 games)
Scougall - 10 games (last goal v Crewe 25 October 2014)
Reed - never scored (played 13 games)
Baxter -16 games (last goal v Preston 23 August 2014)
Doyle - 30 games (last goal v Swindon 29 March 2014)

This is appalling. I am at a loss to understand why we persist with 3 men in the middle when none of them are a goal threat, bar Davies (who has been out for months) and Baxter, who scored when he was playing further forward than he is now.

If Clough had gone out of his way to collect a bunch of players who were no goal threat collectively, it would have been harder to do a better job. This is poor squad building.

It wouldn't be so bad if they brought other things to the table, but these players rarely create anything (save Reed, recently) and as a bunch are smaller than many Under 16 teams on average.

thank goodness for JCR and Murphy, and McNulty (when he's selected). Without them we'd be in the bottom 6.

We only need 20 1-0 wins.

 

[Putney Blade]

And none of our defenders wade in with goals unlike last season when Maguire was close to top scorer...

 

[brownie4583]

I personally would not play 1 man up front against teams like Gillingham,Crewe,Crawley etc surely we need to attack with 2 strikers in games like these and maybe play 1 man up away at Bristol C or Swindon.
Lack of quality strikers has hampered us all season,hopefully this will improve with the arrival of Matt Done.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

You know what thtis is one of the best posts I've seen on here, constructive and factual. Yet if this is mentioned pre match in the pub or it's mentioned to Phipps we get told "We'll get there" or some other shit management speak and then get branded as a knocker/slasher etc. Some were saying that we'll win the play offs - cant see how with our lack of goals.

 

[Esablade]

I'm going to stick me neck out and go with 'yes' on this one.

For 'ever' is a long time!

 

[SwissBlade]

I want to know when Brayford is going to score!!!!! All that money and he hasn't scored in two games.

Waste of Money

 

[longinthe toothblade]

I know I go on about this topic a lot so you'll have to bear with me.

It may be simple minded of me, but to me playing a five man midfield with one poor sod on his own up front equals only one thing: less goals, because you only have one guy up front to do the scoring job, and if you have 2 half decent centre halves they can mark him out of the game, particularly if he's slow (Higdon) or small (McNulty). Even a good player can be nullified - look at Murphy on Saturday.

But I am constantly told that this doesn't matter, because the goals we lose will be compensated for by pressing midfielders drifting into the box. Well, yes, that might happen in the Premier League, but those players don't exist lower down.

However, Clough has since day 1 this season been wedded to 1 man up front and a central midfield 3 unless he gets desperate (when, funnily enough, we do commit men forward and sometimes score). That's all very well if you have midfielders that pop in the occasional goal.

We don't.

Here are the stats: the number of games that people we've had playing in the central midfield 3 have gone since they last scored a goal in the league for us:

Holt - never scored (played one game)
Coutts - never scored (played 2 games)
Ben Davies - 3 games (last goal v Swindon 20 September 2014), and you can argue he's more a wide man
Adams - never scored (played 4 games)
K Wallace - never scored (played 4 games)
J Wallace - never scored (played 10 games). I am amazed that he's actually managed so many games
Cuvilier - never scored (played 10 games)
Scougall - 10 games (last goal v Crewe 25 October 2014)
Reed - never scored (played 13 games)
Baxter -16 games (last goal v Preston 23 August 2014)
Doyle - 30 games (last goal v Swindon 29 March 2014)

This is appalling. I am at a loss to understand why we persist with 3 men in the middle when none of them are a goal threat, bar Davies (who has been out for months) and Baxter, who scored when he was playing further forward than he is now.

If Clough had gone out of his way to collect a bunch of players who were no goal threat collectively, it would have been harder to do a better job. This is poor squad building.

It wouldn't be so bad if they brought other things to the table, but these players rarely create anything (save Reed, recently) and as a bunch are smaller than many Under 16 teams on average.

thank goodness for JCR and Murphy, and McNulty (when he's selected). Without them we'd be in the bottom 6.

Yep. If you add to the mix the fact that we get no goals from the back [aka Maguire and Collins provided in previous seasons] and very little up front, it's very very plain to see why we are where we are. Can't win games without scoring goals and that's a simple fact.

Whilst we are on this, where's all the 1-0's from our last 10 games [DDLDDLWLWL]. I'm I missing something?

 

[OllyBlade]

I know I go on about this topic a lot so you'll have to bear with me.

It may be simple minded of me, but to me playing a five man midfield with one poor sod on his own up front equals only one thing: less goals, because you only have one guy up front to do the scoring job, and if you have 2 half decent centre halves they can mark him out of the game, particularly if he's slow (Higdon) or small (McNulty). Even a good player can be nullified - look at Murphy on Saturday.

But I am constantly told that this doesn't matter, because the goals we lose will be compensated for by pressing midfielders drifting into the box. Well, yes, that might happen in the Premier League, but those players don't exist lower down.

However, Clough has since day 1 this season been wedded to 1 man up front and a central midfield 3 unless he gets desperate (when, funnily enough, we do commit men forward and sometimes score). That's all very well if you have midfielders that pop in the occasional goal.

We don't.

Here are the stats: the number of games that people we've had playing in the central midfield 3 have gone since they last scored a goal in the league for us:

Holt - never scored (played one game)
Coutts - never scored (played 2 games)
Ben Davies - 3 games (last goal v Swindon 20 September 2014), and you can argue he's more a wide man
Adams - never scored (played 4 games)
K Wallace - never scored (played 4 games)
J Wallace - never scored (played 10 games). I am amazed that he's actually managed so many games
Cuvilier - never scored (played 10 games)
Scougall - 10 games (last goal v Crewe 25 October 2014)
Reed - never scored (played 13 games)
Baxter -16 games (last goal v Preston 23 August 2014)
Doyle - 30 games (last goal v Swindon 29 March 2014)

This is appalling. I am at a loss to understand why we persist with 3 men in the middle when none of them are a goal threat, bar Davies (who has been out for months) and Baxter, who scored when he was playing further forward than he is now.

If Clough had gone out of his way to collect a bunch of players who were no goal threat collectively, it would have been harder to do a better job. This is poor squad building.

It wouldn't be so bad if they brought other things to the table, but these players rarely create anything (save Reed, recently) and as a bunch are smaller than many Under 16 teams on average.

thank goodness for JCR and Murphy, and McNulty (when he's selected). Without them we'd be in the bottom 6.

The worrying thing for me is that a lot of these players have higher scoring rates from previously in their careers. I did a quick look at Wiki, and all of Cuvelier, Scougall, James Wallace, Doyle, and Baxter scored goals at a higher rate for most of their previous clubs. This suggests the problem lies with how Clough sets the midfield up.

 

[alcoblade]

I know I go on about this topic a lot so you'll have to bear with me.

It may be simple minded of me, but to me playing a five man midfield with one poor sod on his own up front equals only one thing: less goals, because you only have one guy up front to do the scoring job, and if you have 2 half decent centre halves they can mark him out of the game, particularly if he's slow (Higdon) or small (McNulty). Even a good player can be nullified - look at Murphy on Saturday.

But I am constantly told that this doesn't matter, because the goals we lose will be compensated for by pressing midfielders drifting into the box. Well, yes, that might happen in the Premier League, but those players don't exist lower down.

However, Clough has since day 1 this season been wedded to 1 man up front and a central midfield 3 unless he gets desperate (when, funnily enough, we do commit men forward and sometimes score). That's all very well if you have midfielders that pop in the occasional goal.

We don't.

Here are the stats: the number of games that people we've had playing in the central midfield 3 have gone since they last scored a goal in the league for us:

Holt - never scored (played one game)
Coutts - never scored (played 2 games)
Ben Davies - 3 games (last goal v Swindon 20 September 2014), and you can argue he's more a wide man
Adams - never scored (played 4 games)
K Wallace - never scored (played 4 games)
J Wallace - never scored (played 10 games). I am amazed that he's actually managed so many games
Cuvilier - never scored (played 10 games)
Scougall - 10 games (last goal v Crewe 25 October 2014)
Reed - never scored (played 13 games)
Baxter -16 games (last goal v Preston 23 August 2014)
Doyle - 30 games (last goal v Swindon 29 March 2014)

This is appalling. I am at a loss to understand why we persist with 3 men in the middle when none of them are a goal threat, bar Davies (who has been out for months) and Baxter, who scored when he was playing further forward than he is now.

If Clough had gone out of his way to collect a bunch of players who were no goal threat collectively, it would have been harder to do a better job. This is poor squad building.

It wouldn't be so bad if they brought other things to the table, but these players rarely create anything (save Reed, recently) and as a bunch are smaller than many Under 16 teams on average.

thank goodness for JCR and Murphy, and McNulty (when he's selected). Without them we'd be in the bottom 6.

And still JCR seems to get heavily criticised. Mystifies me.

UTB

 

[wizadry]

And still JCR seems to get heavily criticised. Mystifies me.

UTB

Yes mate,this also astounds me,one of the very few players we have who will atleast try to give us something in the way of goals and creating chances.Never mind,we have a lot of players who can run around all over creating fuck all.

 

[Davie Blade]

you beat me too it Rev, I was thinking exactly the same yesterday.- non scoring midfielders.

I really couldn't be arsed to start yet another condemning thread on the short comings of the manager.
We have 18 fecking midfielders on the books and how many actually can score.

It just gets more embarrassing as at the last round of signings even more of the same are brought in.
I wonder if he ever looks at any stats to be honest?
At times I think he is just mired in a a 80s 90s way of managing.

 

[Revolution]

And still JCR seems to get heavily criticised. Mystifies me.

UTB

He has been played really well over the last 2 months. If we are to have any chance at all with this non scoring central midfield he must start, along with Murphy, every week IMHO.

Oh - Ryan Flynn - no goals for 14 games - should not be starting on the wing.

 

[Pierre's PC]

I'm going to stick me neck out and go with 'yes' on this one.

For 'ever' is a long time!

This is the truth right here

 

[mattbianco1]

Revolution that's a tad harsh on the midfielders.

A quick check brings up the following for "free scoring" Swindon...

Kasim 2 goals
Luongo 3 goals
Thompson 2 goals

That is their 3 main Central Midfielders. 7 goals in a combined 67 starts. 12.9% of their 54 goals scored.

In contrast:

Baxter 3
Scougall 1
Doyle 0

have scored 4 goals in a combined 55 starts. 12.5% of our 32 goals scored.

Our 3 main midfielders have played a combined 12 games less and are 3 goals behind.

Now SUFC play with wingers rather than wing backs...

Murphy 6 in 24 starts
JCR 4 in 12 starts

STFC:
Byrne 3 in 27
Toffolo 0 in 10
Gladwin 2 in 14.

The difference isn't scoring midfield players, it's scoring strikers:
Williams (18)
Smith (10)
Obika (7)

MK Dons are a bit different. They have a fantastic goalscoring midfielder (one that costs £5m...)
Potter 1
Bowditch 3
Alli 12
but their wingers Powell and Baker are on par with JCR & Murphy with 9 between them.

 

[Revolution]

Revolution that's a tad harsh on the midfielders.

A quick check brings up the following for "free scoring" Swindon...

Kasim 2 goals
Luongo 3 goals
Thompson 2 goals

That is their 3 main Central Midfielders. 7 goals in a combined 67 starts. 12.9% of their 54 goals scored.

In contrast:

Baxter 3
Scougall 1
Doyle 0

have scored 4 goals in a combined 55 starts. 12.5% of our 32 goals scored.

Our 3 main midfielders have played a combined 12 games less and are 3 goals behind.

Now SUFC play with wingers rather than wing backs...

Murphy 6 in 24 starts
JCR 4 in 12 starts

STFC:
Byrne 3 in 27
Toffolo 0 in 10
Gladwin 2 in 14.

The difference isn't scoring midfield players, it's scoring strikers:
Williams (18)
Smith (10)
Obika (7)

MK Dons are a bit different. They have a fantastic goalscoring midfielder (one that costs £5m...)
Potter 1
Bowditch 3
Alli 12
but their wingers Powell and Baker are on par with JCR & Murphy with 9 between them.

Baxter scored some, if not all, of his goals as a striker. You can check.

And it matters less how many swindons midfield get (still more than us) because they actually play more than 1 forward. That's my point. If we are going to play one forward the midfield have to score freely. They don't.

It's not harsh at all. No goals in 30 games from a central midfielder is pathetic. No goals in 10 games from Scougall is poor. No goals ever from Reed is poor,

 

[Blade56]

Kin el, give our players a calculator and send 'em out there, job done

 

[Blade56]

I want to know when Brayford is going to score!!!!! All that money and he hasn't scored in two games.

Waste of Money

I posted this on another thread....

We need the beard breathing fire, brimstone and blood while kissing his shirt badge and producing a throbbing vien in the side of his head while he bellows at his team mates to find some bollocks and stop pussy footin about!

 

[mattbianco1]

Baxter scored some, if not all, of his goals as a striker. You can check.

And it matters less how many swindons midfield get (still more than us) because they actually play more than 1 forward. That's my point. If we are going to play one forward the midfield have to score freely. They don't.

It's not harsh at all. No goals in 30 games from a central midfielder is pathetic. No goals in 10 games from Scougall is poor. No goals ever from Reed is poor,

I just think that the overriding problem isn't the central midfielders chipping in. We have all said for months now that we would like to see 4-4-2, especially at home. For me the problem is that we have an isolated striker with nobody to feed off, in addition to this, we try to pass the opposition to death and rarely think fuck it, let's just have a crack.

We need to play much more direct and fast paced to get out of this division in my opinion.

 

[Davie Blade]

Revolution that's a tad harsh on the midfielders.

A quick check brings up the following for "free scoring" Swindon...

Kasim 2 goals
Luongo 3 goals
Thompson 2 goals

That is their 3 main Central Midfielders. 7 goals in a combined 67 starts. 12.9% of their 54 goals scored.

In contrast:

Baxter 3
Scougall 1
Doyle 0

have scored 4 goals in a combined 55 starts. 12.5% of our 32 goals scored.

Our 3 main midfielders have played a combined 12 games less and are 3 goals behind.

Now SUFC play with wingers rather than wing backs...

Murphy 6 in 24 starts
JCR 4 in 12 starts

STFC:
Byrne 3 in 27
Toffolo 0 in 10
Gladwin 2 in 14.

The difference isn't scoring midfield players, it's scoring strikers:
Williams (18)
Smith (10)
Obika (7)

MK Dons are a bit different. They have a fantastic goalscoring midfielder (one that costs £5m...)
Potter 1
Bowditch 3
Alli 12
but their wingers Powell and Baker are on par with JCR & Murphy with 9 between them.

Lies lies and damn statistics
I saw what you did there with Swindon, by omitting the rest of the less games time midfield players who just happened to have scored 4 goals, you 'massaged the numbers''
Try 11 inserting goals from the midfield and come back and try make your point again.

 

[mattbianco1]

Lies lies and damn statistics
I saw what you did there with Swindon, by omitting the rest of the less games time midfield players who just happened to have scored 4 goals, you 'massaged the numbers''
Try 11 inserting goals from the midfield and come back and try make your point again.

No "massaging" at all. The 3 Swindon CMs have played more games than our 3 CMs. They are their first choice players. Add Reed to that and those 3 have still started more games than our 4.

Both sets of players have 12/13% of the teams overall goals. If we had a striker on 18 and one on 10 in addition to McNulty (as Swindon have) then yes, our midfielders would look like they don't contribute... Lack of goals from our strikers is a far bigger problem.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Baxter scored some, if not all, of his goals as a striker. You can check.

All Baxter's six goals have come while playing in midfield (various positions/roles).

• Peterborough away: just behind McNulty in a 4-4-1-1 formation.
• Crawley at home: Started up front, but had swapped to wide midfield when he scored.
• Preston away (league): holding midfield
• Hartlepool away: holding midfield
• Plymouth: left midfield (2 pens)

 

[Silent Blade]

I know I go on about this topic a lot so you'll have to bear with me.

It may be simple minded of me, but to me playing a five man midfield with one poor sod on his own up front equals only one thing: less goals, because you only have one guy up front to do the scoring job, and if you have 2 half decent centre halves they can mark him out of the game, particularly if he's slow (Higdon) or small (McNulty). Even a good player can be nullified - look at Murphy on Saturday.

But I am constantly told that this doesn't matter, because the goals we lose will be compensated for by pressing midfielders drifting into the box. Well, yes, that might happen in the Premier League, but those players don't exist lower down.

However, Clough has since day 1 this season been wedded to 1 man up front and a central midfield 3 unless he gets desperate (when, funnily enough, we do commit men forward and sometimes score). That's all very well if you have midfielders that pop in the occasional goal.

We don't.

Here are the stats: the number of games that people we've had playing in the central midfield 3 have gone since they last scored a goal in the league for us:

Holt - never scored (played one game)
Coutts - never scored (played 2 games)
Ben Davies - 3 games (last goal v Swindon 20 September 2014), and you can argue he's more a wide man
Adams - never scored (played 4 games)
K Wallace - never scored (played 4 games)
J Wallace - never scored (played 10 games). I am amazed that he's actually managed so many games
Cuvilier - never scored (played 10 games)
Scougall - 10 games (last goal v Crewe 25 October 2014)
Reed - never scored (played 13 games)
Baxter -16 games (last goal v Preston 23 August 2014)
Doyle - 30 games (last goal v Swindon 29 March 2014)

This is appalling. I am at a loss to understand why we persist with 3 men in the middle when none of them are a goal threat, bar Davies (who has been out for months) and Baxter, who scored when he was playing further forward than he is now.

If Clough had gone out of his way to collect a bunch of players who were no goal threat collectively, it would have been harder to do a better job. This is poor squad building.

It wouldn't be so bad if they brought other things to the table, but these players rarely create anything (save Reed, recently) and as a bunch are smaller than many Under 16 teams on average.

thank goodness for JCR and Murphy, and McNulty (when he's selected). Without them we'd be in the bottom 6.

I think the midfielders will score more in the last 6 weeks of the season and in the play offs than in the next 6 weeks because it will be easier to arrive in the box at the right time when meeting crosses than on heavy pitches

 

[Davie Blade]

No "massaging" at all. The 3 Swindon CMs have played more games than our 3 CMs. They are their first choice players. Add Reed to that and those 3 have still started more games than our 4.

Both sets of players have 12/13% of the teams overall goals. If we had a striker on 18 and one on 10 in addition to McNulty (as Swindon have) then yes, our midfielders would look like they don't contribute... Lack of goals from our strikers is a far bigger problem.

Comparing Apples and Oranges is utterly meaningless.
The thread is about how many goals ALL of our midfield scores in every game this season.

To make a meaningful comparison you need to add in ALL the central midfielders records for every game, not selectively discount some.
Add the ALL 4 goals that came from ALL the other central midfielders at Swindon and you, get 21%.
Please now add in ALL United Central midfielders records for every game and we can start to have a meaningful comparison.

No one is disputing strikers, and that wasn't the OP's point.

 

[mattbianco1]

Comparing Apples and Oranges is utterly meaningless.
The thread is about how many goals ALL of our midfield scores in every game this season.

To make a meaningful comparison you need to add in ALL the central midfielders records for every game, not selectively discount some.
Add the ALL 4 goals that came from ALL the other central midfielders at Swindon and you, get 21%.
Please now add in ALL United Central midfielders records for every game and we can start to have a meaningful comparison.

No one is disputing strikers, and that wasn't the OP's point.

No point comparing anything with anything then is there. We're not as good as Swindon or MK Dons so no point comparing it is there.

The overall fact is that we have scored 32 goals. That's less than L. Orient who are bottom.

Our leading scorer(s) are on 6 goals. The squad as a whole don't score many. No point blaming the midfield who arent paid to score goals

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Revolution that's a tad harsh on the midfielders.

A quick check brings up the following for "free scoring" Swindon...

Kasim 2 goals
Luongo 3 goals
Thompson 2 goals

That is their 3 main Central Midfielders. 7 goals in a combined 67 starts. 12.9% of their 54 goals scored.

In contrast:

Baxter 3
Scougall 1
Doyle 0

have scored 4 goals in a combined 55 starts. 12.5% of our 32 goals scored.

Our 3 main midfielders have played a combined 12 games less and are 3 goals behind.

Now SUFC play with wingers rather than wing backs...

Murphy 6 in 24 starts
JCR 4 in 12 starts

STFC:
Byrne 3 in 27
Toffolo 0 in 10
Gladwin 2 in 14.

The difference isn't scoring midfield players, it's scoring strikers:
Williams (18)
Smith (10)
Obika (7)

MK Dons are a bit different. They have a fantastic goalscoring midfielder (one that costs £5m...)
Potter 1
Bowditch 3
Alli 12
but their wingers Powell and Baker are on par with JCR & Murphy with 9 between them.

Forgot about Alli watching MK Dons tonight, not done much first half.

 

[The Bohemian]

I know I go on about this topic a lot so you'll have to bear with me.

If we had a striker who could play the lone role effectively, he would create space (and goals!) for the midfielders. We have got midfielders capable of scoring regularly if they have someone to play off. Baxter, despite not being an out and out striker, filled the role far better than McNulty, who cannot play with his back to goal and consistently runs down blind alleys (runs channels when his midfielders wants him short and vice versa). He's young and this is an area he can improve with experience, but for now it's a problem.

Our problem with scoring enough is about strikers not systems:

In 2011/12 we played with two up top and scored 92 league goals - 2 per game, with our strikers chipping in with 44 (48%) One scored 29!!!
In 2012/13 we played with two up top and scored 56 league goals - 1.22 per game, with our strikers chipping in with 30 (54%)
In 2013/14 with nobody up top for the first 13 games we scored 48 league goals - 1.04 per game, with our striker chipping in with 16 (33%)
In 2014/15 with one up top we have scored 39 league goals to date - 1.23 per game, with our strikers chipping in with 9 (28%)

Good strikers are hard to come by. Cloughie clearly set his stall out to get O Grady in before the season and failed, presumably due to Brighton paying Championship wages. His back up plan lacks the mobility to play alone and getting him on the pitch at all seems increasingly difficult, which left him with Porter and McNulty.

McNulty has to play off someone and I agree with those who suggest we should have played with two strikers at home against weaker teams - but given injuries and suspensions, who would the two have been? How often have Higdon and McNulty been available to play together?

The current squad is one good striker and a proper centre half short of challenging for the Top 2. The centre half should have been sorted and is down to Cloughie; the striker is more excusable but patience will wear ever thinner unless a solution is found soon.

It may be simple minded of me, but to me playing a five man midfield with one poor sod on his own up front equals only one thing: less goals, because you only have one guy up front to do the scoring job, and if you have 2 half decent centre halves they can mark him out of the game, particularly if he's slow (Higdon) or small (McNulty). Even a good player can be nullified - look at Murphy on Saturday.

But I am constantly told that this doesn't matter, because the goals we lose will be compensated for by pressing midfielders drifting into the box. Well, yes, that might happen in the Premier League, but those players don't exist lower down.

However, Clough has since day 1 this season been wedded to 1 man up front and a central midfield 3 unless he gets desperate (when, funnily enough, we do commit men forward and sometimes score). That's all very well if you have midfielders that pop in the occasional goal.

We don't.

Here are the stats: the number of games that people we've had playing in the central midfield 3 have gone since they last scored a goal in the league for us:

Holt - never scored (played one game)
Coutts - never scored (played 2 games)
Ben Davies - 3 games (last goal v Swindon 20 September 2014), and you can argue he's more a wide man
Adams - never scored (played 4 games)
K Wallace - never scored (played 4 games)
J Wallace - never scored (played 10 games). I am amazed that he's actually managed so many games
Cuvilier - never scored (played 10 games)
Scougall - 10 games (last goal v Crewe 25 October 2014)
Reed - never scored (played 13 games)
Baxter -16 games (last goal v Preston 23 August 2014)
Doyle - 30 games (last goal v Swindon 29 March 2014)

This is appalling. I am at a loss to understand why we persist with 3 men in the middle when none of them are a goal threat, bar Davies (who has been out for months) and Baxter, who scored when he was playing further forward than he is now.

If Clough had gone out of his way to collect a bunch of players who were no goal threat collectively, it would have been harder to do a better job. This is poor squad building.

It wouldn't be so bad if they brought other things to the table, but these players rarely create anything (save Reed, recently) and as a bunch are smaller than many Under 16 teams on average.

thank goodness for JCR and Murphy, and McNulty (when he's selected). Without them we'd be in the bottom 6.

 

[Rudders]

It just gets more embarrassing as at the last round of signings even more of the same are brought in.
I wonder if he ever looks at any stats to be honest?
At times I think he is just mired in a a 80s 90s way of managing.

One of the first things Clough did when appointed manager was to stop a lot of the more professional tactical analysis that had been done before hand. He is very old fashioned in that respect. I think a manager needs to explore every possible way of getting an advantage.

 

[Davie Blade]

One of the first things Clough did when appointed manager was to stop a lot of the more professional tactical analysis that had been done before hand. He is very old fashioned in that respect. I think a manager needs to explore every possible way of getting an advantage.

Thanks Rudders, for confirming something I had only perceived and suspected.
If it is true and I've no reason to doubt you, I'm pretty appalled at how amateurish he is.

You're spot on with marginal gains. He'd be fecking useless with Sir Dave Brailsford at team Sky / British cycling,.
It might explain the surge Derby got when they dumped the serial failure.

I heard Tony Pullis talking about going to visit Athletico Bibao and Bayer Leverkusen, when he manager at Stoke
Why the hell did he go there, you might be thinking?.
He had identified both those clubs as being from a small working class background town who had 'over-achieved' in their respective leagues.
He thought Stoke were exactly the same.
So he went to see their teams training methods to see if there might be any snippet at all, he could pick up to apply at Stoke.
A brilliant example of marginal gains, the thought process, examination and lengths the manager applies to his job.
No wonder he has done so well.

 

[Revolution]

No point comparing anything with anything then is there. We're not as good as Swindon or MK Dons so no point comparing it is there.

The overall fact is that we have scored 32 goals. That's less than L. Orient who are bottom.

Our leading scorer(s) are on 6 goals. The squad as a whole don't score many. No point blaming the midfield who arent paid to score goals

Not paid to score goals? They are expected to score a few goals. That sounds like something people used to say about Monty, and it was as wrong then as it is now.