Wilders improvement

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Perhaps a look at the mess Leicester City appear to be in is needed before ‘a rich owner” is the panacea.

PL and FA cup in the last 8 years????

 

[Bladezz]

So Heckys games against Man City, Newcastle, Man U, Spurs & Arsenal & wilders 4 on the bounce 5-0s at home don't count in your view

I’m actually amazed you come to that conclusion. I’ve never said anything of the sort.

Hecky had us bottom in his tenure.

Since Wilder has been back we would be 3rd bottom. It’s a huge improvement.

Someone mentioned why we so bad at home in terms of goals conceded and I suggested it’s what we played high calibre teams at home.

So how you’ve come to your reply is a strange one to me.

 

[Bladezz]

If a dog is born in a stable, does it make it a horse?

He really isnt - not for long - wouldnt bank on it

That’s fine. Don’t bank on us finishing above WBA. That’s your opinion I think we will. Let’s come back next season. You’ll apologise if your wrong for sure.

 

[Snowflake]

PL and FA cup in the last 8 years????

This was a rich owner who was a beneficiary to the city of Leicester as well as the club. They don’t come around very often.

 

[steve26272]

That’s fine. Don’t bank on us finishing above WBA. That’s your opinion I think we will. Let’s come back next season. You’ll apologise if your wrong for sure.

I DO think we will finish above WBA - i said dont bank on it, not we wont

Look, I dont have an issue with your view point, you are sticking to the stats, and they are there in black and white so im not arguing, on paper were better off

My take is, and love him for 2016-2020, but IMO he is struggling

In the music industry he would be known as a one hit wonder - got a beautiful tune out of SUFC once, but not had a hit since

Please furnish us with what Chris has achieved since leaving us bottom of the league 3 years ago?

 

[Pintor75]

I’m actually amazed you come to that conclusion. I’ve never said anything of the sort.

Hecky had us bottom in his tenure.

Since Wilder has been back we would be 3rd bottom. It’s a huge improvement.

Someone mentioned why we so bad at home in terms of goals conceded and I suggested it’s what we played high calibre teams at home.

So how you’ve come to your reply is a strange one to me.

Your saying we've played top teams at home under wilder, haven't we under hecky?

 

[BobblesBlade]

Look Chris. I never thought you’d stoop to Michael Beale levels but just stop.

 

[Bladezz]

Your saying we've played top teams at home under wilder, haven't we under hecky?

You really seem incapable of reading.

It’s in comparison to the original post.

I don’t mind a debate but it’s hard when someone doesn’t read.

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

A debate is where both sides (or several in this case) listen and think about what they and others are saying. Sadly this appears to be a thing of the past, the modern way seems to be to shout the same stuff in an ever louder and more strident way in an effort to simply steamroller the opposition view.
I get that you like Wilder, and you like what he did when he came to United in 2016. Most of us did. But from spring/summer 2020 until now, he's achieved very little (I'm being polite) wherever he's been, and his previous achievements are history now. These aren't opinions, they're facts, and there's no evidence that he has the ability to turn it around either this season or next. Neither Watford or Boro were in the car crash situation which we are now in when he went to them, and he left both in worse shape than they were when he arrived. So where's the evidence that he can turn it round here?
I admire your loyalty and faith in Wilder, but perhaps you should have a think about why you're doing this because unless you and him are big mates, there doesn't seem to be much in it for you, and you seem to be becoming a bit of a voice in the wilderness (no pun intended), which isn't a great place to be at such a shitty time.
Cheers, UTB.

 

[Bladezz]

A debate is where both sides (or several in this case) listen and think about what they and others are saying. Sadly this appears to be a thing of the past, the modern way seems to be to shout the same stuff in an ever louder and more strident way in an effort to simply steamroller the opposition view.
I get that you like Wilder, and you like what he did when he came to United in 2016. Most of us did. But from spring/summer 2020 until now, he's achieved very little (I'm being polite) wherever he's been, and his previous achievements are history now. These aren't opinions, they're facts, and there's no evidence that he has the ability to turn it around either this season or next. Neither Watford or Boro were in the car crash situation which we are now in when he went to them, and he left both in worse shape than they were when he arrived. So where's the evidence that he can turn it round here?
I admire your loyalty and faith in Wilder, but perhaps you should have a think about why you're doing this because unless you and him are big mates, there doesn't seem to be much in it for you, and you seem to be becoming a bit of a voice in the wilderness (no pun intended), which isn't a great place to be at such a shitty time.
Cheers, UTB.

Not to worry he took over from Warnock when they were headed to League one. Their fans didn’t rate Tavernier, Wilder put him straight back in and he was sold for £18m within 12 months of him being there. They missed out on the playoffs on the last game of the season. They also beat Tottenham at home and Man Utd away in the FA Cup before crashing out to Chelsea.

He then did really well and was linked with a return to Burnley in the Premier League. Linked so strongly that he refused to shut down the talk of him going. Boro fans turned on him (I see why)

He then brought back Akpom into the side who would go onto score 32 goals or whatever it was. They started poorly when Lenighan and Akpom got injured and he was sacked. More for the fact that the fans weren’t happy due to the fact they saw him as a mercenary for the Premier League.

So when you say he left them poorer. He made them over £30m in 12 months.

Don’t let the last 10 games of his tenure there suggest he didn’t do very well overall.

My brother in law is a Boro fan so he’s more knowledgeable that us Blades.

But I’m sure people will try and put a negative spin.

As for supporting the manager. I am heavily criticised on here for being negative. Also criticised for being too positive. It kinda shows I’m somewhere in the middle of the extremes on here.

I showed a simple table of Wilders results since he’s been here which I am happy to debate. If you think overall 3rd bottom is poor then that’s fine. You believe the team should be mid table premier league based on his return. You think more of Wilder than I ever do if you thought it was possible.

Edit: adding steve26272 quick overview for your point above.

 

[Bladezz]

I DO think we will finish above WBA - i said dont bank on it, not we wont

Look, I dont have an issue with your view point, you are sticking to the stats, and they are there in black and white so im not arguing, on paper were better off

My take is, and love him for 2016-2020, but IMO he is struggling

In the music industry he would be known as a one hit wonder - got a beautiful tune out of SUFC once, but not had a hit since

Please furnish us with what Chris has achieved since leaving us bottom of the league 3 years ago?

One hit wonder?

He got promoted with Halifax
He got promoted with Oxford
He got promoted with Northampton
He got Promoted with x2
Highest ever PL finish with

It’s amazing he’s a one hit wonder when he’s had that much success.

 

[bladeinspaceandtime]

Wilder is a Division 3 manager who got lucky for a couple of seasons.

 

[wak1889]

Chris Wilder over the last 12 games would have had us 18th, 3 points of 15th.

I know there’s some hammerings along the way but the improvement is quite remarkable.

Imagine how different it would be if we were on our way to Bournmouth within touching distance of survival. It would be a fantastic day out.

I don’t think anyone really thinks Wilder will be sacked (some will say he’ll walk ) I understand a lot of fans do not like Wilder for numerous different reasons. I am a big advocate of stats but the main stat is points on the board.

View attachment 180196

But we wouldn't because the only teams we have taken more points than are Brentford and Burnley, and as Brentford were miles above us , and burnley were 2 points above us when he took over we have lost ground on everyone else since wilder came in so we wouldn't have moved anywhere and would actually still be bottom, but about 15 goals worse than we were before he came in

 

[finlaytheblade]

The division demands a billionaire owner, and players around an average of 25 -40m on the pitch In order to  survive..

We're just getting news coming through on how the prince / backroom staff treat thier manager regarding the Berge transfer so becoming loud n clear to me where the problem is, if we want to ever consolidate in the PL we need new richer ownership so it's bye bye prince at some point if that's where we're going, what I've just read any manager would resign over..

You can have any manager you want the outcome will be the same in the premier league, we'll discuss the losses of Berge and Ndyie but truth be told they'll be nothing but subs at any team above 12th place in this division all thier sales did was ensure we can get a couple of similar players on longer contracts buying the prince more time with his meagre resources, basically using what he's paid out before recouping it and using it again..

He's never at the club, more interested in the 49ers (glad they lost) and tbh the club is being run like a joke because of his incompetence and decisions at boardroom level, appointing a team then the ceo comes out straight away and says "you won't see me again" we should have been in uproar that day...

Look beyond the football, even when we were successfull with wilder, we had people without a clue milling about, phipps although likable what did he know, sella ??? The writings been on the wall a long time but promotions have masked it all.. edit: which are in most quarters now being accepted as the respective managers over achieving..

Running the contracts down was the fatal error though, it's loud and clear the club will not pay anyehere near the going rate for mcburnie and wes to sign up, never mind the rest, couple that with out of contract players and thier agents doing deals for next year, each of those players being told "if you get an injury the deals off instantly" while we sit in the stands wondering why there's a lack of effort!

If the prince was a football expert with limited funds sat in the boardroom at the lane, updating the fans every now and then, chairing meetings about how we proceed that would be tolerated, he'd be sharing our troubles with us, but he's not bothered he's using social media every 12 months because it's the quick fix to address the fans directly in the most convenient manner to him, you cant blame the content providers either if you ran a podcast and the owner wanted to go on that's a dream come true, but its a quick Skype and then back to looking at the draft speculation for the new NFL season isn't it..

Wilder / Hecky / Klopp / Guardiola, take your pick, a club being run like we are, it doesn't matter, they'll all fail..

Who is going to pay Wes and Mcbernie more than us
They won't get prem clubs so we are as good as they will get.?.

 

[Tezza1889]

Who is going to pay Wes and Mcbernie more than us
They won't get prem clubs so we are as good as they will get.?.

We pay shite wages. Hence nearly every player refusing a new contract...

A lot of next years first team will be around 8k plus bonuses, youth team players.

Mcburnie is on 20k, and he's a top earner, do you think as a free transfer he can't better that with Rangers and Leeds interested...

There's talk of pairing him up with Shankland at ibrox next season..

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

Not to worry he took over from Warnock when they were headed to League one. Their fans didn’t rate Tavernier, Wilder put him straight back in and he was sold for £18m within 12 months of him being there. They missed out on the playoffs on the last game of the season. They also beat Tottenham at home and Man Utd away in the FA Cup before crashing out to Chelsea.

He then did really well and was linked with a return to Burnley in the Premier League. Linked so strongly that he refused to shut down the talk of him going. Boro fans turned on him (I see why)

He then brought back Akpom into the side who would go onto score 32 goals or whatever it was. They started poorly when Lenighan and Akpom got injured and he was sacked. More for the fact that the fans weren’t happy due to the fact they saw him as a mercenary for the Premier League.

So when you say he left them poorer. He made them over £30m in 12 months.

Don’t let the last 10 games of his tenure there suggest he didn’t do very well overall.

My brother in law is a Boro fan so he’s more knowledgeable that us Blades.

But I’m sure people will try and put a negative spin.

As for supporting the manager. I am heavily criticised on here for being negative. Also criticised for being too positive. It kinda shows I’m somewhere in the middle of the extremes on here.

I showed a simple table of Wilders results since he’s been here which I am happy to debate. If you think overall 3rd bottom is poor then that’s fine. You believe the team should be mid table premier league based on his return. You think more of Wilder than I ever do if you thought it was possible.

Edit: adding steve26272 quick overview for your point above.

I don't know where in my post that I put that I think we should be mid table PL.
The lack of planning and support from the board following promotion meant we were going nowhere except back down. I didn't say that he left Boro financially poorer, but football-wise he didn't achieve anything.
Leaving the stats out, and going on observation, we were awful under Hecky, and we're awful under Wilder. Any change/improvement at this stage is marginal/non-existent. He did "go missing" in the dugout on Monday (sorry, I referred to Sunday in my initial post, utter confusion about when games are played these days), and I do maintain that he isn't the answer. There's no point sacking him now, but nothing I see gives me any faith that he could turn it round in the Championship.
Thanks for not getting into a slanging match about this mate. We just disagree.
UTB.

 

[Blademan18891889]

We pay shite wages. Hence nearly every player refusing a new contract...

A lot of next years first team will be around 8k plus bonuses, youth team players.

Mcburnie is on 20k, and he's a top earner, do you think as a free transfer he can't better that with Rangers and Leeds interested...

There's talk of pairing him up with Shankland at ibrox next season..

Imagine Mcburnie performing away at benfica tonight, not a fucking prayer. Or shankland seen as you mentioned him. Far far far superior level than both of them. He's not a good finisher, absolutely far from it, so he ain't gonna improve rangers even against the lower clubs.

 

[Bladezz]

I don't know where in my post that I put that I think we should be mid table PL.
The lack of planning and support from the board following promotion meant we were going nowhere except back down. I didn't say that he left Boro financially poorer, but football-wise he didn't achieve anything.
Leaving the stats out, and going on observation, we were awful under Hecky, and we're awful under Wilder. Any change/improvement at this stage is marginal/non-existent. He did "go missing" in the dugout on Monday (sorry, I referred to Sunday in my initial post, utter confusion about when games are played these days), and I do maintain that he isn't the answer. There's no point sacking him now, but nothing I see gives me any faith that he could turn it round in the Championship.
Thanks for not getting into a slanging match about this mate. We just disagree.
UTB.

I am always up for debate. I like to understand why someone has there view point.

My comment on mid table is that Wilder would currently have us 3rd bottom which is deemed not good enough. He was never coming in and turnings us better than what he’s done?

We prayed for 4th bottom form. Knowing that we started so far behind 4th bottom home wouldn’t be enough and we would need mid table form to claw back the points.

We played well at Wolves only 10 or so days ago. We were the better side and should have won. We played Luton twice won one and threw the other away. We beat Brentford who are down their with us.

I’m not judging Wilder against Arsenal / Brighton / Villa as we will lose that with Pep in charge. We have Liverpool coming up we have already lost etc.

Both Hecky and Wilder aren’t able to compete against the top section / middle section of teams in the PL.

Hecky couldn’t compete against the bottom section of teams with 5-0 battering by Burnley and Bournmouth.

We seem to do well and battle against the bottom section of teams with Wilder. A good example will be this Saturday to compare the difference.

 

[finlaytheblade]

We pay shite wages. Hence nearly every player refusing a new contract...

A lot of next years first team will be around 8k plus bonuses, youth team players.

Mcburnie is on 20k, and he's a top earner, do you think as a free transfer he can't better that with Rangers and Leeds interested...

There's talk of pairing him up with Shankland at ibrox next season..

Talk is cheap agents at it all the time.
Mcbernies fitness record will go against him for any contract at blades or elsware.
Wes won't get a better deal than we are offering in my opinion. We have competitive wage structure in the championship,after all that's what they are : championship players.

 

[Not so Slim ane]

I am always up for debate. I like to understand why someone has there view point.

My comment on mid table is that Wilder would currently have us 3rd bottom which is deemed not good enough. He was never coming in and turnings us better than what he’s done?

We prayed for 4th bottom form. Knowing that we started so far behind 4th bottom home wouldn’t be enough and we would need mid table form to claw back the points.

We played well at Wolves only 10 or so days ago. We were the better side and should have won. We played Luton twice won one and threw the other away. We beat Brentford who are down their with us.

I’m not judging Wilder against Arsenal / Brighton / Villa as we will lose that with Pep in charge. We have Liverpool coming up we have already lost etc.

Both Hecky and Wilder aren’t able to compete against the top section / middle section of teams in the PL.

Hecky couldn’t compete against the bottom section of teams with 5-0 battering by Burnley and Bournmouth.

We seem to do well and battle against the bottom section of teams with Wilder. A good example will be this Saturday to compare the difference.

He wouldn't have us third bottom if he'd been in from the start of the season, it's nonsense... would he have done better in the games against palace and forest when we didn't have a team... with basham and norwood starting in midfield ...no chance

The first 10 games or so we're a complete write off because most of the squad had never played together

 

[Tezza1889]

Talk is cheap agents at it all the time.
Mcbernies fitness record will go against him for any contract at blades or elsware.
Wes won't get a better deal than we are offering in my opinion. We have competitive wage structure in the championship,after all that's what they are : championship players.

Agree with a lot of that.. but they're gonna get better deals because there's no transfer fee..

I'm certain you know what im getting at..

 

[mattbianco1]

Chris Wilder over the last 12 games would have had us 18th, 3 points of 15th.

I know there’s some hammerings along the way but the improvement is quite remarkable.

Imagine how different it would be if we were on our way to Bournmouth within touching distance of survival. It would be a fantastic day out.

I don’t think anyone really thinks Wilder will be sacked (some will say he’ll walk ) I understand a lot of fans do not like Wilder for numerous different reasons. I am a big advocate of stats but the main stat is points on the board.

View attachment 180196

It's all well and good showing these kind of tables. I did one the other day, but unfortunately, even over the 12 games, the 3 teams we are chasing... Everton, Forest and Luton, have all pulled further away from us - 3pts further.

It's OK catching Burnley, but it's 2 of the other 3 we need to catch

 

[finlaytheblade]

Agree with a lot of that.. but they're gonna get better deals because there's no transfer fee..

I'm certain you know what im getting at..

They would get a signing on fee with us as this is standard practice.
I'm sure any of the out of contract players would re-sign if we really wanted them. That's key ! Will we want them. After this seasons shit show.
Wilders job is to sift through them! Maybe some have been withdrawn already.

 

[steve26272]

One hit wonder?

He got promoted with Halifax
He got promoted with Oxford
He got promoted with Northampton
He got Promoted with x2
Highest ever PL finish with

It’s amazing he’s a one hit wonder when he’s had that much success.

Fair play I gave him credit for the 4 amazing years with us, not sure success in the lower leagues would class as a "hit", but hey ho................

And in response to the last line of my post?

 

[Bladezz]

Fair play I gave him credit for the 4 amazing years with us, not sure success in the lower leagues would class as a "hit", but hey ho................

And in response to the last line of my post?

View attachment 180324

I refer you to post 78.

He did that well for Boro he was courted by Premier League teams. Terrible start to the season lost him his job.

Ex-Middlesbrough boss Chris Wilder sets the record straight on Burnley job links

Chris Wilder spent 11 months in charge of Middlesbrough before being replaced by current manager Michael Carrick

www.gazettelive.co.uk

Watford he didn’t do much will give you that.

I believe that’s answered your questions fully.

 

[steve26272]

I refer you to post 78.

He did that well for Boro he was courted by Premier League teams. Terrible start to the season lost him his job.

Ex-Middlesbrough boss Chris Wilder sets the record straight on Burnley job links

Chris Wilder spent 11 months in charge of Middlesbrough before being replaced by current manager Michael Carrick

www.gazettelive.co.uk

Watford he didn’t do much will give you that.

I believe that’s answered your questions fully.

Fair assessment - but interesting to see the 'deception of perception'

To me, he got sacked by Boro, binned of by Watford, and hasnt stopped us shipping goals or moved us up 1 league position

I hope he does come good, I dont have an agenda, I just feel his career is on a downward trend, which is a shame as this is how fickle football is!

 

[Bladezz]

Fair assessment - but interesting to see the 'deception of perception'

To me, he got sacked by Boro, binned of by Watford, and hasnt stopped us shipping goals or moved us up 1 league position

I hope he does come good, I dont have an agenda, I just feel his career is on a downward trend, which is a shame as this is how fickle football is!View attachment 180341

Yes he got sacked at the Blades doesn’t mean he wasn’t good! Same at Boro.

But appreciate the debate and the points brought up. We disagree but let’s hope I’m right.

 

[mattbianco1]

Fair play I gave him credit for the 4 amazing years with us, not sure success in the lower leagues would class as a "hit", but hey ho................

I don't know Steve.

I think people overlook these achievements and brush them aside.

Chris Wilder isn't/wasn't a household name who had a pick of managerial jobs when he first retired - See Gerrard, Lampard, Ince, Kompany, Both Neville's etc.
He wasn't able to just walk into a Championship, Belgian Top Flight or La Liga club as his first job because he never played at that sort of level.

What he did do though was prove himself at all the clubs he managed up to, and including United*

He's comparable to players like Watkins, Vardy and Toney that have had to work hard to get from the bottom to the top. They weren't just already placed at a top club.

*Something changed in his 2nd PL season with us though and he couldn't get a tune out of us, and I do have a dislike towards him for the way that he left United.
I feel this could prove to be his sliding doors moment in management altogether. He was tipped as the next big thing similar to Potter at Brighton, but left when the going got tough and seemingly has never recovered from it.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

I don't know Steve.

I think people overlook these achievements and brush them aside.

Chris Wilder isn't/wasn't a household name who had a pick of managerial jobs when he first retired - See Gerrard, Lampard, Ince, Kompany, Both Neville's etc.
He wasn't able to just walk into a Championship, Belgian Top Flight or La Liga club as his first job because he never played at that sort of level.

What he did do though was prove himself at all the clubs he managed up to, and including United*

He's comparable to players like Watkins, Vardy and Toney that have had to work hard to get from the bottom to the top. They weren't just already placed at a top club.

*Something changed in his 2nd PL season with us though and he couldn't get a tune out of us, and I do have a dislike towards him for the way that he left United.
I feel this could prove to be his sliding doors moment in management altogether. He was tipped as the next big thing similar to Potter at Brighton, but left when the going got tough and seemingly has never recovered from it.

I actually don’t mind the job wilder is doing at the moment, nobody can get a tune out of this team & the test will be next season for him when he rebuilds his own team.

The one thing I wish he’d stop doing is talking about the past though, every time we get battered he’s almost saying ‘this isn’t my team, my teams work harder than this lot do’.

But he’s been here a while now, the players might not be his but the current bizarre team selections & tactics are.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Not to worry he took over from Warnock when they were headed to League one. Their fans didn’t rate Tavernier, Wilder put him straight back in and he was sold for £18m within 12 months of him being there. They missed out on the playoffs on the last game of the season. They also beat Tottenham at home and Man Utd away in the FA Cup before crashing out to Chelsea.

He then did really well and was linked with a return to Burnley in the Premier League. Linked so strongly that he refused to shut down the talk of him going. Boro fans turned on him (I see why)

He then brought back Akpom into the side who would go onto score 32 goals or whatever it was. They started poorly when Lenighan and Akpom got injured and he was sacked. More for the fact that the fans weren’t happy due to the fact they saw him as a mercenary for the Premier League.

So when you say he left them poorer. He made them over £30m in 12 months.

Don’t let the last 10 games of his tenure there suggest he didn’t do very well overall.

My brother in law is a Boro fan so he’s more knowledgeable that us Blades.

But I’m sure people will try and put a negative spin.

As for supporting the manager. I am heavily criticised on here for being negative. Also criticised for being too positive. It kinda shows I’m somewhere in the middle of the extremes on here.

I showed a simple table of Wilders results since he’s been here which I am happy to debate. If you think overall 3rd bottom is poor then that’s fine. You believe the team should be mid table premier league based on his return. You think more of Wilder than I ever do if you thought it was possible.

Edit: adding steve26272 quick overview for your point above.

Again the myth that they were headed to League One have a look at the table the day Wilder took over. It dispels that claim.