Wilder to Watford

[CPB]

Why bother sacking Wilder, to replace him with Valerian Ismael.

Ismael is about 30 years too late in football isn't he?

 

[Weasel]

Portsmouth would have been a good fit for him. Solid club with loyal working class fans which has been underachieving and who could do souch more with a little shoot of recovery. Sunderland would have been another but that ship has sailed (no pun intended re Portsmouth). Millwall would also have been a decent fit for him but Rowett has done well there and is well thought of.

 

[Weasel]

Ismael is about 30 years too late in football isn't he?

He would be a terrible choice for them unless they want it to be lumped into the air for 90 mins. Might get results in the lower leagues which are more hustle and bustle it gets found out when you need a bit more finesse from your team the higher up you go. Another corking choice from Watford if they go with him.

 

[coaxingstar71]

I can't comprehend why some of our fanbase insist on sticking the boot into the best manager we've had since Dave Bassett and one of the best managers we've ever had.

To suggest he luckily found a formula here is insulting to both him and the rest of the staff. The irony of the idea that his tactics got 'found out' when Hecky has just won us promotion playing in almost the exact the same way.

I wish him well with whatever club he manages next.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

“Wilder, whatever you do, just make sure what you’re doing makes you happeh.”

 

[Mouth of the South]

I can't comprehend why some of our fanbase insist on sticking the boot into the best manager we've had since Dave Bassett and one of the best managers we've ever had.

To suggest he luckily found a formula here is insulting to both him and the rest of the staff. The irony of the idea that his tactics got 'found out' when Hecky has just won us promotion playing in almost the exact the same way.

I wish him well with whatever club he manages next.

Why do you think he's not had anywhere near as much success since leaving Utd then?
Do you think the Boro squad was suitable to implement the same blueprint he used at Utd?
Why did Watford ends the season in a lower league position than when Wilder joined?
Finally, where do you think he'll end up next?

 

[coaxingstar71]

Why do you think he's not had anywhere near as much success since leaving Utd then?
Do you think the Boro squad was suitable to implement the same blueprint he used at Utd?
Why did Watford ends the season in a lower league position than when Wilder joined?
Finally, where do you think he'll end up next?

I'll be honest, I don't know why he hasn't had the same success since leaving us and I don't know why, the blueprint, as you put it, didn't work at Boro. If you were to ask a Fulham or Watford fan why it didn't work out for Slav at the Lane, I'm sure they wouldn't know either. The answers to those questions are not that simple. I'm sure there are a multitude of reasons.

I don't profess to be an expert in football management, however what I do know is that when Wilder arrived here, the squad was poor. He recognised weaknesses, managed to sign a few decent players and with the coaching staff, worked with the team and evolved a unique way of playing. There's not too many managers in the game that have done that and had unparalled success with it. That's just the tip of the iceberg, you could get into looking at the attributes of those players and how it fitted the style.

Just one example was the transformation of Basham. Until Wilder came in, he was a nothing player. A very average midfielder or defender to say the least. Under Wilder's management he was transformed into the marauding RCB we all love today. Not saying that's purely down to Wilder, there has to be buy-in from the player, but it made a big difference.

I don't know what has happened to Watford, they seemed broken mentally at the Lane before Wilder went there.

I don't know where he'll end up, maybe a Champ club but more likely League One with his current reputation. He might do better at a club where a lot of players are out of contract giving him the chance to rebuild rather than work with what he's got.

He gave me the best 4-5 years of supporting the Blades and for that he'll always have my respect.

 

[SwissBlade]

CW hit the jackpot at Utd when he landed a magical formula that took teams some time to work out and find a way to negate it.
Other than a short period of success at Boro he's been unable to repeat his success since.
Some my view his time at Watford as a free hit but he's again been unable to get a tune out of a decent bunch of players.
His exit at Utd and public flirting with Sunderland and more recently Burnley won't have gone unnoticed either. He may get another shot at the Champ albeit a lesser fancied team or have have to try the Scottish Champ. Either way, he's on a downwards trajectory.

The difference was he didn’t have time or have the ability to rebuild Boro or Watford.

He rebuilt United from the ground up to what we have in place now

It’s not to say that he was the only man to be able to do it and he was perhaps more of a hybrid manager in that respect.

When he came into United the connection with fans was not good, the route from academy to first team was there but needed cleaning up, contracts processes needed sorting so we didn’t lose players of value, sports science was there but needed work… as well as many other aspects

Wilder is an experienced manager and also smart on how clubs can be run more efficiently, especially in the lower leagues. He doesn’t really seem to be a patch up manager.

 

[Mouth of the South]

I'll be honest, I don't know why he hasn't had the same success since leaving us and I don't know why, the blueprint, as you put it, didn't work at Boro. If you were to ask a Fulham or Watford fan why it didn't work out for Slav at the Lane, I'm sure they wouldn't know either. The answers to those questions are not that simple. I'm sure there are a multitude of reasons.

I don't profess to be an expert in football management, however what I do know is that when Wilder arrived here, the squad was poor. He recognised weaknesses, managed to sign a few decent players and with the coaching staff, worked with the team and evolved a unique way of playing. There's not too many managers in the game that have done that and had unparalled success with it. That's just the tip of the iceberg, you could get into looking at the attributes of those players and how it fitted the style.

Just one example was the transformation of Basham. Until Wilder came in, he was a nothing player. A very average midfielder or defender to say the least. Under Wilder's management he was transformed into the marauding RCB we all love today. Not saying that's purely down to Wilder, there has to be buy-in from the player, but it made a big difference.

I don't know what has happened to Watford, they seemed broken mentally at the Lane before Wilder went there.

I don't know where he'll end up, maybe a Champ club but more likely League One with his current reputation. He might do better at a club where a lot of players are out of contract giving him the chance to rebuild rather than work with what he's got.

He gave me the best 4-5 years of supporting the Blades and for that he'll always have my respect.

I'm not downplaying what CW achieved with Utd - the success he achieved was remarkable and the resulting financial windfall was a key enabler for keeping the squad in place for this season.
Re: SJ's failure - Watford and Fulham fans may not be able to explain the reasons for it but I can - trying to implement a totally different formation and style of play on a squad that couldn't do it is the main reason, coupled with poor coaching and the lack of fitness of the squad. An exaggerated version of what CW tried at Boro.

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

Bits on Twitter linking him with Reading.

Club and man have similar traits, he should do it.

 

[Working Class Hero]

I can't comprehend why some of our fanbase insist on sticking the boot into the best manager we've had since Dave Bassett and one of the best managers we've ever had.

To suggest he luckily found a formula here is insulting to both him and the rest of the staff. The irony of the idea that his tactics got 'found out' when Hecky has just won us promotion playing in almost the exact the same way.

I wish him well with whatever club he manages next.

What Hecky also found was that the flat midfield 3 (especially a flat midfield 3 of Berge, Fleck and Norwood) does not work in this system. Thankfully Hecky reverted to playing more advanced creative midfielders behind the striker(s) and that decision probably got us promoted. Wilder also did that in the Championship. I just hope that we don't see it takeover again in the Premier League, as it was a big part of our downfall last time.

He's undoubtedly using Wilder's system, but hopefully he's learnt from Wilder's mistakes.

 

[Shawy24]

Why do you think he's not had anywhere near as much success since leaving Utd then?

Because like many managers he is pig headed, stubborn, arrogant and starts to believe in his own hype. Remember he left United on a low insisting on playing The Luncunt, and the attitude he has continued to demonstrate since then (My way or the highway) isn’t appropriate to the teams he has managed.

Do you think the Boro squad was suitable to implement the same blueprint he used at Utd?

Absolutely not, which is why Carrick did a similar job to Hecky and reverted to what the team knew.

Why did Watford ends the season in a lower league position than when Wilder joined?

Because the players and some staff never bought into Wilder. Why should they? Lower league northern upstart with no foreign experience and on a short term deal. There was a moment in one game I saw that when making substitutions the players were laughing at him. That Watford side is big trouble for anyone. Too many aresholes with agents. Needs a clear out.

Finally, where do you think he'll end up next?

Anywhere that will pay him, but I expect failure at Southampton or Reading until and unless he understands he needs time and patience to rebuild and he isn’t as good as he thinks he is.

Sorry for hijacking your conversation. I was bored.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

If he & Doncaster Rovers had any sense, they'd get together asap, and push the club up through the leagues. They've just sacked Danny Schofield. Get CWAK in, back them & watch them fly. It's a love story waiting to be written. There is a synchronicity of a cycle ending at the Blades & starting one at Rovers for certain players.

If clubs the size of Luton & Millwall can trouble the Play Offs with the right managers, then so can Doncaster Rovers.

 

[Bladesman]

The difference was he didn’t have time or have the ability to rebuild Boro or Watford.

He rebuilt United from the ground up to what we have in place now

It’s not to say that he was the only man to be able to do it and he was perhaps more of a hybrid manager in that respect.

When he came into United the connection with fans was not good, the route from academy to first team was there but needed cleaning up, contracts processes needed sorting so we didn’t lose players of value, sports science was there but needed work… as well as many other aspects

Wilder is an experienced manager and also smart on how clubs can be run more efficiently, especially in the lower leagues. He doesn’t really seem to be a patch up manager.

Not sure I agree with that about Boro. He had a whole summer to sort Boro out after seeing out half a season with them prior.

If anything he had the full backing of Gibson to revamp Boro and push them on. No ownership turmoil behind the scenes. No League 1 pub league players to have to turn into gold or bin off. Boro were also not at the sort of level we were when we bottomed out in League 1.

Yet Carrick comes in and within a month or so is storming up the league table. Maybe Carrick's improvements might be flash in the pan especially if they don't go up via the play-offs but its quite surprising how fast he turned it around there.

Watford was a stupid move. Clearly money motivated as well. He knew if he screwed up there it was no big deal based on what has gone before.

 

[coaxingstar71]

I'm not downplaying what CW achieved with Utd - the success he achieved was remarkable and the resulting financial windfall was a key enabler for keeping the squad in place for this season.
Re: SJ's failure - Watford and Fulham fans may not be able to explain the reasons for it but I can - trying to implement a totally different formation and style of play on a squad that couldn't do it is the main reason, coupled with poor coaching and the lack of fitness of the squad. An exaggerated version of what CW tried at Boro.

There's no comparison to the squad we have today and the one that CW inherited and a lot of the credit for that is the comparative success the club have had in that period. I don't think we even had a natural CB on the books when CW took over!

Re SJ - that's the point, I don't follow Boro or Watford that closely to know exactly what has happened as I'm sure the same can be said for your average Fulham or Watford supporter when asked about us. I know CW started well and they had a good run in the cup, but then this season did not start well and it all went tits up for him from there.

I just don't think you become a shit manager overnight anymore than a player does. There has to be reasons for it. I see a lot of nonsense about him being stubborn and believing his own hype but I don't buy that.

 

[Davalon]

Finally, where do you think he'll end up next?

I thought he might get the Southampton job if they were relegated but I think his stock may have dipped a bit now for them.

 

[John Street Bar]

Why do you think he's not had anywhere near as much success since leaving Utd then?
Do you think the Boro squad was suitable to implement the same blueprint he used at Utd?
Why did Watford ends the season in a lower league position than when Wilder joined?
Finally, where do you think he'll end up next?

Huddersfield!!

 

[bonobo]

I don't like it, but the chopping and changing of managers is a norm of the game. Fans contribute to it. But its the lack of continuity that is crazy. Watford swap from one different style and profile of a manager to another, no wonder the squad is gutted out. If Southampton were interested in Wilder, it would make no sense in that they have just invested heavily in a strategy around developing young players, really not his forte.... and he would be wise to stay clear.

 

[SwissBlade]

Not sure I agree with that about Boro. He had a whole summer to sort Boro out after seeing out half a season with them prior.

If anything he had the full backing of Gibson to revamp Boro and push them on. No ownership turmoil behind the scenes. No League 1 pub league players to have to turn into gold or bin off. Boro were also not at the sort of level we were when we bottomed out in League 1.

Yet Carrick comes in and within a month or so is storming up the league table. Maybe Carrick's improvements might be flash in the pan especially if they don't go up via the play-offs but its quite surprising how fast he turned it around there.

Watford was a stupid move. Clearly money motivated as well. He knew if he screwed up there it was no big deal based on what has gone before.

I'd say Boro was more of a build on whats already there rather than a rebuild

 

[CrookesBlade]

“If he isn’t lucky why’s he not been a success since leaving us”

He’s only had one proper job since and even then he didn’t get a full season. The 10 games at Watford who are an absolute basket case can’t count for much surely.

Watford are absolutely mental getting Ismaeli in who has achieved nothing at Championship level in when they had Wilder in the building.

Wilder will have success somewhere he is allowed to build a side by shipping out dead wood and bringing in his own men which used to be standard practice 10-15 years ago.

Problem these days is clubs buy players by committee with and the players they bring in are seen as untouchable whilst the manager is completely disposable. Just keep rolling the dice still something clicks.

Just look at our friends across the city - a revolving door of managers with no thought given to continuity or recruiting to a model. Just bring in a load of players on big wages and refuse to get rid because you demand some value out of them, whilst slipping into league one as they go past their sell by date.