Wilder OUT - megathread

[54yrblade]

I still think Wilder is comfortably our biggest problem.

We are consistently one of the worst footballing teams to watch, despite him having had some of the biggest budgets available to a Sheffield United manager. He was negative when he had money and better players, and somehow the football has become even worse as the squad has declined.

What actually is the game plan? Park the bus, launch it into the channels, roll your sleeves up and get stuck in? That seems to be about the extent of it. It’s park football being played by people earning vast sums of money, while the value and technical quality of the squad gets progressively worse.

I constantly hear “he needs a season”. He’s had fucking loads of time across his spells here. This isn’t some manager who arrived six weeks ago. We know exactly what his football looks like, and apart from that brilliant first spell, it has progressively become more negative, more basic and more shite.

Even with a depleted squad, we still have players like K. Phillips, Seriki, Riedewald and Bamford who should have enough quality for this level, yet he seems incapable of getting a functioning football team out of them. We regularly look unable to string five passes together. Everything is smashed long, chased into channels and built around second balls rather than actually controlling a game.

His recruitment philosophy compounds the problem. Familiar players, English players, players who work hard, “good lads”, players who will get stuck in. Effort matters, obviously, but where is the emphasis on technique, intelligence, creativity and players comfortable on the ball? We’ve ended up with a squad desperately short of technical quality because the entire philosophy seems built around graft first and football second.

And the familiarity our fanbase has with Wilder because he’s local and “gets the club” has become a massive blind spot. If another manager was serving up this football without the Sheffield United connection, I genuinely don’t think people would tolerate it.

He can steady a ship. Fine. But he cannot be the man responsible for building the next one.

The longer he stays, the further backwards I think we go. Keep accepting this as the blueprint and I honestly think he takes us to League One.

Any manager who plays and starts as many CDMs as Wilder should be a red flag. Fuck!

Edit:
One more thing, how many times do we sell a player and they instantly look better somewhere else?

Same player, same ability. The main difference is they’re playing under a different manager, in a different system, with a different style of football. Our fans have constantly blamed the players first and said they simply weren’t good enough. But when you look at where a lot of those players are now, plenty of them are playing Premier League football.

At some point it becomes pretty obvious the problem was somewhere else. It feels like a lot of them were playing with no plan, direction or too many restriction on, they leave and suddenly look like good footballers.

Outstanding post!

 

[HOT CURRIE 10]

As much as I would like to see a change in direction, not just the manager, doing it now doesn’t make sense.

Yes the performances in the league have been poor and worryingly similar to what we had to endure last season, but…

We’re only 5 games into the season (we’ve looked good at times in the cup games), and there are further additions expected this week which should improve the squad and style of play (fingers crossed).

Want him or not, Wilder cares about this club and will rally the players enough to be hard to beat - I know that isn’t what we’re aiming for but it does offer some protection right now.

Also, with no money seemingly available, are we really likely to attract anyone of any quality or anyone who could get a tune out the type of squad just assembled?

Personally, I think not. Unless there is a significant down turn in results, I’d wait and review the situation at Christmas.

The ideal scenario is that COH are actively looking to sell the club or are at least working on getting in new investors with actual funds they are willing spend and appointing someone who knows football to advise them. Because without this, I cannot see us making any real progress.

“He cares about the club”,well that’s a great free pass for him. What about the 30000 supporters who care passionately about the club and have done before Wilder was born. He’s getting too many get out of jail cards. Our demise is from his help along with poor ownership.

 

[Kona]

“He cares about the club”,well that’s a great free pass for him. What about the 30000 supporters who care passionately about the club and have done before Wilder was born. He’s getting too many get out of jail cards. Our demise is from his help along with poor ownership.

I’m not saying it’s a free pass, more that it’s a personal issue for him and that is likely part of his motivation to do the best he can.

If you’ve read any of my previous posts, you’ll know my views on Wilder, but I do think this personal ‘buy in’ he has offers us more than another manager at this point in time.

 

[Bladesman]

 

[Keen Blade]

His subs on this occasion seemed logical to me to be quite honest. I’m not saying they turned the game but made sense at the time.

I thought first off the selection was wrong. McGuinness and Baptiste had just played 90 together at Blackburn in a good away win and a good away performance conceding only a worldy. I can appreciate the desire to restore Tanganga there but given the absence of , and Tanganga having played 22 times at right back for Spurs, he should have started there and it would have killed most of their offense down that side. Baptiste is 1.91m and McGuinness 1.94m, they were more qualified than Japh, at 1.84m, to deal with their big lump up front anyway.

I also thought 4-4-2 is too open to play away from home but with BBD only just arrived, Oné and Chong injured, not easy to fashion a proper 4-2-3-1 this week.

It took the first half and then uncharacteristically he made two changes as early as half time.

He switched to 3-5-1-1. In came Shackleton at RWB where he probably thought it would ask too much of Donovan defensively and in came Phillips for Bamford who, assist aside, had drifted out of the game. I understood this. Could Doherty have come in? Maybe or perhaps wing back is asking a lot of a 34 year old building up match action?

As the game went on he brought on Riedewald to give us more solidity given Rothwell’s passing game was off anyway. He then decided to give the defence more natural balance and brought on Norrington-Davies on the left hoping that would add a player who could carry the ball forward, and on a few occasions he did.

With Cannon ploughing a lone furrow, it was only a matter of time until her introduced Brereton-Diaz.

Now it doesn’t explain why we kept turning the ball over through unforced errors and one of our most popular players, O’Hare, did that frequently, but I sidnt sit there thinking “why’s he done that?”.

That’s just my 2 cents anyway.

You make some good points.
However , as you say , putting Baptiste instead of Tanga at RB was inexplicable and gave them a free run down their LW the whole first half.
Then , trying to repair his basic error at HT exposed the lack of athleticism & creativity in our MF , to such an extent that we abandoned the idea of winning a winnable game and had our backs to the wall the whole second half.
5-2 would not have flattered them - we have used up a seasons worth of luck in 45 mins just to scrape a point.
The outlook is more of the same , and I think the manager could be much more positive , even with the players available.
His mindset will be to blame the owners or the players , but more than half the responsibility for that dismal performance is his alone.

 

[HOT CURRIE 10]

I’m not saying it’s a free pass, more that it’s a personal issue for him and that is likely part of his motivation to do the best he can.

If you’ve read any of my previous posts, you’ll know my views on Wilder, but I do think this personal ‘buy in’ he has offers us more than another manager at this point in time.

How do you know regarding the manager? That’s the problem,people see him as a safe pair of hands because of Slav,not given time or money,Selles who was a shocking appointment. This Wilder football is as bad as I’ve seen at BDTBL,if this was Selles,Adkins etc the pitchforks would be out.

 

[Blood Red]

I must admit the team looked like they didn't know what they were supposed to be doing, which is a major worry.
I still believe CW is the best man for the job, given what we could possibly be facing.

 

[Blade59]

Wilder is clearly a manger whose peak is now well behind him. He is not the answer to take this club forward but at present this club does not have a strategy or plan as to how it moves forward so it makes no sense to get rid of him. What would happen if we did. I doubt if the owners or Bettis have the foggiest of who they would want next. We would end up with a temporary caretaker from the backroom team and invite applications for the job. This would see the usual list of out of work has been and journeyman managers apply and we would end up with a lesser or similar version of Wilder. No up and coming manager with any ambition would touch us with a barge pole currently given the off field issues and absence of any clear direction as to where the club is heading. At least Wilder has a connection and cares.

I think the potential sanctions over the ownership situation are weighing heavily on how we are setting up so negatively. It is not something anything we want but we have to realise there is a realistic possibility that we end up with a points deduction and if that ends up in the 10 - 12 points area that probably takes us from a relatively comfortable mid table to a serious possibility of relegation. Just look at Leicester. The danger is that these tactics just produce to many draws which often the drages you down near the bottom anyway. Better to win one loose one than go two games unbeaten in those circumstances.

Given all that I think that Wilder is the best (least worst) option for now. It is not going to be pretty and I can fully understand that many will decide they don't want to watch such turgid football every week. Be interesting how we approach the Bolton game as this is looking a must win given Norwich next Saturday could be our toughest game of the season so far.

 

[Nedski]

I still think Wilder is comfortably our biggest problem.

We are consistently one of the worst footballing teams to watch, despite him having had some of the biggest budgets available to a Sheffield United manager. He was negative when he had money and better players, and somehow the football has become even worse as the squad has declined.

What actually is the game plan? Park the bus, launch it into the channels, roll your sleeves up and get stuck in? That seems to be about the extent of it. It’s park football being played by people earning vast sums of money, while the value and technical quality of the squad gets progressively worse.

I constantly hear “he needs a season”. He’s had fucking loads of time across his spells here. This isn’t some manager who arrived six weeks ago. We know exactly what his football looks like, and apart from that brilliant first spell, it has progressively become more negative, more basic and more shite.

Even with a depleted squad, we still have players like K. Phillips, Seriki, Riedewald and Bamford who should have enough quality for this level, yet he seems incapable of getting a functioning football team out of them. We regularly look unable to string five passes together. Everything is smashed long, chased into channels and built around second balls rather than actually controlling a game.

His recruitment philosophy compounds the problem. Familiar players, English players, players who work hard, “good lads”, players who will get stuck in. Effort matters, obviously, but where is the emphasis on technique, intelligence, creativity and players comfortable on the ball? We’ve ended up with a squad desperately short of technical quality because the entire philosophy seems built around graft first and football second.

And the familiarity our fanbase has with Wilder because he’s local and “gets the club” has become a massive blind spot. If another manager was serving up this football without the Sheffield United connection, I genuinely don’t think people would tolerate it.

He can steady a ship. Fine. But he cannot be the man responsible for building the next one.

The longer he stays, the further backwards I think we go. Keep accepting this as the blueprint and I honestly think he takes us to League One.

Any manager who plays and starts as many CDMs as Wilder should be a red flag. Fuck!

Edit:
One more thing, how many times do we sell a player and they instantly look better somewhere else?

Same player, same ability. The main difference is they’re playing under a different manager, in a different system, with a different style of football. Our fans have constantly blamed the players first and said they simply weren’t good enough. But when you look at where a lot of those players are now, plenty of them are playing Premier League football.

At some point it becomes pretty obvious the problem was somewhere else. It feels like a lot of them were playing with no plan, direction or too many restriction on, they leave and suddenly look like good footballers.

Interviewer: Chris, modern football is increasingly about young, strong, athletic, quick players. Physicality, mobility, pace. And surely, in the modern game, bringing in foreign players with different technical and tactical backgrounds is hugely important?

Chris Wilder: No.

Interviewer: No?

Chris Wilder: No. I know better.

Interviewer: So what are you looking for in a player?

Chris Wilder: None of that.

Interviewer: None of what?

Chris Wilder: Young. Strong. Quick. Athletic. Foreign. Technical. Tactical. Don't need it.

Interviewer: So what do you want?

Chris Wilder: I want a player who's got the wrong position, the wrong foot, and preferably no pace.

Interviewer: And that's your recruitment strategy?

Chris Wilder: That's part of it.

Interviewer: What's the other part?

Chris Wilder: Going back.

Interviewer: Going back where?

Chris Wilder: Players who've already been here.

Interviewer: Players who have previously played for the club?

Chris Wilder: Exactly.

Interviewer: Even if they were part of an unsuccessful season?

Chris Wilder: Especially if they were.

Interviewer: Why?

Chris Wilder: Older now. Wiser now.

Interviewer: So you're looking for players who have already failed here, but have since aged?

Chris Wilder: Correct.

Interviewer: And you think that's a key part of modern recruitment?

Chris Wilder: I know it is.

Interviewer: Right. Let's go through the squad.

Chris Wilder: Go on.

Interviewer: Burrows, left wing-back. Where's he playing, Chris?

Chris Wilder: Left-back.

Interviewer: Seriki, right wing-back?

Chris Wilder: Right-back.

Interviewer: McGuiness, right centre-back?

Chris Wilder: Left centre-back.

Interviewer: Baptiste, centre-back?

Chris Wilder: Right-back.

Interviewer: O'Hare, attacking midfielder?

Chris Wilder: Left wing.

Interviewer: Peck, originally an attacking midfielder and forward?

Chris Wilder: Defensive midfield.

Interviewer: Arblaster, central midfielder?

Chris Wilder: Defensive midfield.

Interviewer: One, centre-forward?

Chris Wilder: Left wing.

Interviewer: BBD, centre-forward or left wing?

Chris Wilder: Right wing.

Interviewer: Marsh, centre-forward?

Chris Wilder: Left wing.

Interviewer: Shackleton. Not a footballer. Where's he playing?

Chris Wilder: Football.

 

[Grey Blade]

Have you not been tuning in since last season then. Tuesday was a free hit with both sides mix and matching,unfortunately the Carabao is not important until the latter stages and no one cares too much. Serious question,are you happy with the football,tactics,signings,style,non identity, ? I spent £120 going to Cardiff yesterday,people are seeing it with their feet over the last couple of weeks and not happy.

1) Yes
2) Yes. It's a Micky Mouse competition but it's nice to win a game.
3) Football been Ok in small bursts but poor overall.
4) See (3)
5) No - but with the shenanigans going on in behind the scnes what can we expect.
6) See (3)
7) Does seem a bit shambolic
I have every sympathy with you spending that time and money going to Cardiff. I look on football as being part of my social life and although there is nothing inspirational about the football at the moment, I still enjoy banter with the fans who I've got to know at home games - and encountering fans I see at away games and have got to know over the past 15 yeares or so (didn't go to many away games before that)
Whilst ever we've got these clowns pulling fast ones in the background I don't see how anyone can plan for the future.
I'm not going to spend my life wittering about shortcomings at SU when there are for more important things to worry about both at home and globally

 

[Nedski]

Interviewer: Chris, modern football is increasingly about young, strong, athletic, quick players. Physicality, mobility, pace. And surely, in the modern game, bringing in foreign players with different technical and tactical backgrounds is hugely important?

Chris Wilder: No.

Interviewer: No?

Chris Wilder: No. I know better.

Interviewer: So what are you looking for in a player?

Chris Wilder: None of that.

Interviewer: None of what?

Chris Wilder: Young. Strong. Quick. Athletic. Foreign. Technical. Tactical. Don't need it.

Interviewer: So what do you want?

Chris Wilder: I want a player who's got the wrong position, the wrong foot, and preferably no pace.

Interviewer: And that's your recruitment strategy?

Chris Wilder: That's part of it.

Interviewer: What's the other part?

Chris Wilder: Going back.

Interviewer: Going back where?

Chris Wilder: Players who've already been here.

Interviewer: Players who have previously played for the club?

Chris Wilder: Exactly.

Interviewer: Even if they were part of an unsuccessful season?

Chris Wilder: Especially if they were.

Interviewer: Why?

Chris Wilder: Older now. Wiser now.

Interviewer: So you're looking for players who have already failed here, but have since aged?

Chris Wilder: Correct.

Interviewer: And you think that's a key part of modern recruitment?

Chris Wilder: I know it is.

Interviewer: Right. Let's go through the squad.

Chris Wilder: Go on.

Interviewer: Burrows, left wing-back. Where's he playing, Chris?

Chris Wilder: Left-back.

Interviewer: Seriki, right wing-back?

Chris Wilder: Right-back.

Interviewer: McGuiness, right centre-back?

Chris Wilder: Left centre-back.

Interviewer: Baptiste, centre-back?

Chris Wilder: Right-back.

Interviewer: O'Hare, attacking midfielder?

Chris Wilder: Left wing.

Interviewer: Peck, originally an attacking midfielder and forward?

Chris Wilder: Defensive midfield.

Interviewer: Arblaster, central midfielder?

Chris Wilder: Defensive midfield.

Interviewer: One, centre-forward?

Chris Wilder: Left wing.

Interviewer: BBD, centre-forward or left wing?

Chris Wilder: Right wing.

Interviewer: Marsh, centre-forward?

Chris Wilder: Left wing.

Interviewer: Shackleton. Not a footballer. Where's he playing?

Chris Wilder: Football.

Interviewer: Chris, you're closing in on a deal to re-sign DM Choudhury. What's your plan for him?

Chris Wilder: Right back.

 

[Peaktrade]

The more I think about it, Wilder is setting us up like a League Two side that’s somehow found itself in the Premier League, park the bus, sit deep and hope for the best.


If the manager doesn’t show any confidence in the players, how are they supposed to have confidence in themselves?


The negativity of the formation is ridiculous. We’re Sheffield United, surely we should be trying to impose ourselves on teams rather than setting up scared of them before a ball’s even kicked.

 

[Nedski]

The more I think about it, Wilder is setting us up like a League Two side that’s somehow found itself in the Premier League, park the bus, sit deep and hope for the best.


If the manager doesn’t show any confidence in the players, how are they supposed to have confidence in themselves?


The negativity of the formation is ridiculous. We’re Sheffield United, surely we should be trying to impose ourselves on teams rather than setting up scared of them before a ball’s even kicked.

We're full of experience throughout the team, they should be more than capable of passing around younger teams but we don't even try to beat the press we just hoof it.

I've been saying it for years but it always feels like the other team have an extra player as we somehow end up outnumbered everywhere on the pitch. We hit it long to isolated strikers and the second ball is swept up by a free opponent. They then have options as we're nowhere near anyone and a few one touch passes later and they are on our 18 yard line. We expel so much energy chasing them down that everyone is knackered.

We used to be masters of overloading the opposition full backs and passing it around in triangles. Everyone wanted the ball and knew what to do with it, there were always multiple options. Now no one wants the ball, no one shows for it, players are left isolated, and we end up with 30% possession because we can't win it or keep it.

 

[HOT CURRIE 10]

1) Yes
2) Yes. It's a Micky Mouse competition but it's nice to win a game.
3) Football been Ok in small bursts but poor overall.
4) See (3)
5) No - but with the shenanigans going on in behind the scnes what can we expect.
6) See (3)
7) Does seem a bit shambolic
I have every sympathy with you spending that time and money going to Cardiff. I look on football as being part of my social life and although there is nothing inspirational about the football at the moment, I still enjoy banter with the fans who I've got to know at home games - and encountering fans I see at away games and have got to know over the past 15 yeares or so (didn't go to many away games before that)
Whilst ever we've got these clowns pulling fast ones in the background I don't see how anyone can plan for the future.
I'm not going to spend my life wittering about shortcomings at SU when there are for more important things to worry about both at home and globally

Absolutely,Nepal etc is a genuine heartbreaker in today’s news,as well as many other issues. I get irked by how our club has been run lately as it’s been part of my life for 55 years,as many are,I’m falling out with it all but I would still miss mates and the social bit of it all.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Why should the squad we have make you think we are only mid table?

A few reasons screaming “mid table” at me:

We were shit last season and we’ve taken the 2 best players away.

Tom Cannon starts up front.

Joe Rothwell plays in midfield.

Mark McGuinness plays at the back.

We play a version of football bereft of tactics and are terrible at both passing and hoofing.

 

[wf9-Danny]

Right now, get rid of Wilder and you throw the dice.

Plus it hemorouges more money out of the club, which we probably don't need right now.

I'd advocate a bit more transparancy though, it seems like what is on the horizon seems to change every few months. We are bidding "x" amount for this player, that player..........we are in for frees and non attached players. Come on, talk to us properly.

 

[KMC-1889]

Interviewer: Chris, modern football is increasingly about young, strong, athletic, quick players. Physicality, mobility, pace. And surely, in the modern game, bringing in foreign players with different technical and tactical backgrounds is hugely important?

Chris Wilder: No.

Interviewer: No?

Chris Wilder: No. I know better.

Interviewer: So what are you looking for in a player?

Chris Wilder: None of that.

Interviewer: None of what?

Chris Wilder: Young. Strong. Quick. Athletic. Foreign. Technical. Tactical. Don't need it.

Interviewer: So what do you want?

Chris Wilder: I want a player who's got the wrong position, the wrong foot, and preferably no pace.

Interviewer: And that's your recruitment strategy?

Chris Wilder: That's part of it.

Interviewer: What's the other part?

Chris Wilder: Going back.

Interviewer: Going back where?

Chris Wilder: Players who've already been here.

Interviewer: Players who have previously played for the club?

Chris Wilder: Exactly.

Interviewer: Even if they were part of an unsuccessful season?

Chris Wilder: Especially if they were.

Interviewer: Why?

Chris Wilder: Older now. Wiser now.

Interviewer: So you're looking for players who have already failed here, but have since aged?

Chris Wilder: Correct.

Interviewer: And you think that's a key part of modern recruitment?

Chris Wilder: I know it is.

Interviewer: Right. Let's go through the squad.

Chris Wilder: Go on.

Interviewer: Burrows, left wing-back. Where's he playing, Chris?

Chris Wilder: Left-back.

Interviewer: Seriki, right wing-back?

Chris Wilder: Right-back.

Interviewer: McGuiness, right centre-back?

Chris Wilder: Left centre-back.

Interviewer: Baptiste, centre-back?

Chris Wilder: Right-back.

Interviewer: O'Hare, attacking midfielder?

Chris Wilder: Left wing.

Interviewer: Peck, originally an attacking midfielder and forward?

Chris Wilder: Defensive midfield.

Interviewer: Arblaster, central midfielder?

Chris Wilder: Defensive midfield.

Interviewer: One, centre-forward?

Chris Wilder: Left wing.

Interviewer: BBD, centre-forward or left wing?

Chris Wilder: Right wing.

Interviewer: Marsh, centre-forward?

Chris Wilder: Left wing.

Interviewer: Shackleton. Not a footballer. Where's he playing?

Chris Wilder: Football.

Brilliant, but there’s no way Wilder would be that concise with his answers. He’d ramble on for 10 minutes talking about points of view.

 

[Aston max]

I think this seasons squad building tells us a lot about wilder, he's built his reputation on a few good seasons that have "quite rightly " made him a blades legend , but IMHO it's now shows his narrow thinking about how he thinks the game should be played by signings of players that suit the style.
He never seems to have a plan "B" !!!
If it happens or not this club needs a total calibration of recruitment, general attitude towards playing style,sadly if it means a couple of seasons of mediocrity including league one then so be it.
One of my major annoyances is a minority of our fans because of our recent few forays think we're entitled to be in the EPL because we're "MASSIVE " that word really sticks in my throat!!
Anyway rant over.

 

[Dkc]

Wilder is clearly a manger whose peak is now well behind him. He is not the answer to take this club forward but at present this club does not have a strategy or plan as to how it moves forward so it makes no sense to get rid of him. What would happen if we did. I doubt if the owners or Bettis have the foggiest of who they would want next. We would end up with a temporary caretaker from the backroom team and invite applications for the job. This would see the usual list of out of work has been and journeyman managers apply and we would end up with a lesser or similar version of Wilder. No up and coming manager with any ambition would touch us with a barge pole currently given the off field issues and absence of any clear direction as to where the club is heading. At least Wilder has a connection and cares.

I think the potential sanctions over the ownership situation are weighing heavily on how we are setting up so negatively. It is not something anything we want but we have to realise there is a realistic possibility that we end up with a points deduction and if that ends up in the 10 - 12 points area that probably takes us from a relatively comfortable mid table to a serious possibility of relegation. Just look at Leicester. The danger is that these tactics just produce to many draws which often the drages you down near the bottom anyway. Better to win one loose one than go two games unbeaten in those circumstances.

Given all that I think that Wilder is the best (least worst) option for now. It is not going to be pretty and I can fully understand that many will decide they don't want to watch such turgid football every week. Be interesting how we approach the Bolton game as this is looking a must win given Norwich next Saturday could be our toughest game of the season so far.

Not sure that managers 'peak' and then become poorer at their jobs. At least not managers in their 50s.

In any other similar profession the experience gained over a career means that employees are generally highly valued in the years leading up to retirement. I don't see why football managers should be any different.

Older managers used to be commonplace, and often more successful than their younger counterparts. Alex Ferguson is a prime example.

Nowadays the fashion is for clubs to employ younger, less experienced managers, but I am not convinced that they are always better than managers in their 50s and 60s.

 

[BiggerBladeThanThou]

A few reasons screaming “mid table” at me:

We were shit last season and we’ve taken the 2 best players away.

Tom Cannon starts up front.

Joe Rothwell plays in midfield.

Mark McGuinness plays at the back.

We play a version of football bereft of tactics and are terrible at both passing and hoofing.

Yeh and why is that?

 

[Nedski]

I think we're all seeing why, despite early success as a manager, he's never been offered a role in the premier league.

His stock must have been incredibly high after winning the LMA Manager of the Year which is a huge accolade, but we still didn't have to worry about a bigger club coming in for him which speaks volumes.

What's Scott Parker up to these days?

 

[SUFCinks]

As much as I would like to see a change in direction, not just the manager, doing it now doesn’t make sense.

Yes the performances in the league have been poor and worryingly similar to what we had to endure last season, but…

We’re only 5 games into the season (we’ve looked good at times in the cup games), and there are further additions expected this week which should improve the squad and style of play (fingers crossed).

Want him or not, Wilder cares about this club and will rally the players enough to be hard to beat - I know that isn’t what we’re aiming for but it does offer some protection right now.

Also, with no money seemingly available, are we really likely to attract anyone of any quality or anyone who could get a tune out the type of squad just assembled?

Personally, I think not. Unless there is a significant down turn in results, I’d wait and review the situation at Christmas.

The ideal scenario is that COH are actively looking to sell the club or are at least working on getting in new investors with actual funds they are willing spend and appointing someone who knows football to advise them. Because without this, I cannot see us making any real progress.

I get the logic, especially with the state of the club and the lack of money, but I think that’s also how we end up permanently kicking the decision down the road..

It’s “only 5 games” now, but he had all of last season. Before that it was give him January, then give him a full season, then give him his own pre-season. Now it’s wait until christmas. At what point are we actually judging what were seeing rather than waiting for the next milestone?

There’s never really a perfect time to change manager. If anything, maybe doing it last year would have meant we acted before this mess got worse, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I’m also not convinced the new additions suddenly change the style. If Choudhury is genuinely one of them then it almost feels like a parody at this point. More physicality, graft and familiarity when we’re already crying out for technical quality and creativity.

And I don’t really buy the “Wilder cares” argument as a reason to keep him. Of course he cares, but every manager cares about the job they’re doing. Caring and being able to get a team organised enough to grind out results isn’t the same as being the right person to take the club forward. Its a minimum.

The bit I really disagree with is the idea that nobody else could get more out of this squad. Wilder has partly built it and currently isn’t getting much out of it himself, so why does that prove someone else couldn’t? There are internationals and players with plenty of experience at a higher level in there. Another manager might not perform miracles, but surely it’s reasonable to think somebody could coach more football into them than this.

The board absolutely deserve a huge amount of blame and I agree the bigger picture is a mess. But the performances, tactics and way the team is set up are still the manager’s responsibility. You can blame individual players for bad games, But when the same problems carry on for months and seasons it stops being an off day.

Maybe Wilder does steady us enough to survive, and maybe that’s the safest option. But personally I can’t keep watching this football. I stopped bothering at times last season because it was so bad, and I’m already getting to the same point again. Ultimately it’s my time and money and I want to actually enjoy watching us. I’m not expecting exceptional football, just some positivity, some intent and occasionally something about the team to actually feel proud of.

For me the bigger risk now is becoming so scared of change that we just accept decline because it feels familiar. Selles got six league games. Wilder seems to get endless extensions to the point where we’re allowed to judge him..

I’d rather take the risk of trying something different than spend another six months finding out what I feel like we already know.

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

I still think Wilder is comfortably our biggest problem.

We are consistently one of the worst footballing teams to watch, despite him having had some of the biggest budgets available to a Sheffield United manager. He was negative when he had money and better players, and somehow the football has become even worse as the squad has declined.

What actually is the game plan? Park the bus, launch it into the channels, roll your sleeves up and get stuck in? That seems to be about the extent of it. It’s park football being played by people earning vast sums of money, while the value and technical quality of the squad gets progressively worse.

I constantly hear “he needs a season”. He’s had fucking loads of time across his spells here. This isn’t some manager who arrived six weeks ago. We know exactly what his football looks like, and apart from that brilliant first spell, it has progressively become more negative, more basic and more shite.

Even with a depleted squad, we still have players like K. Phillips, Seriki, Riedewald and Bamford who should have enough quality for this level, yet he seems incapable of getting a functioning football team out of them. We regularly look unable to string five passes together. Everything is smashed long, chased into channels and built around second balls rather than actually controlling a game.

His recruitment philosophy compounds the problem. Familiar players, English players, players who work hard, “good lads”, players who will get stuck in. Effort matters, obviously, but where is the emphasis on technique, intelligence, creativity and players comfortable on the ball? We’ve ended up with a squad desperately short of technical quality because the entire philosophy seems built around graft first and football second.

And the familiarity our fanbase has with Wilder because he’s local and “gets the club” has become a massive blind spot. If another manager was serving up this football without the Sheffield United connection, I genuinely don’t think people would tolerate it.

He can steady a ship. Fine. But he cannot be the man responsible for building the next one.

The longer he stays, the further backwards I think we go. Keep accepting this as the blueprint and I honestly think he takes us to League One.

Any manager who plays and starts as many CDMs as Wilder should be a red flag. Fuck!

Edit:
One more thing, how many times do we sell a player and they instantly look better somewhere else?

Same player, same ability. The main difference is they’re playing under a different manager, in a different system, with a different style of football. Our fans have constantly blamed the players first and said they simply weren’t good enough. But when you look at where a lot of those players are now, plenty of them are playing Premier League football.

At some point it becomes pretty obvious the problem was somewhere else. It feels like a lot of them were playing with no plan, direction or too many restriction on, they leave and suddenly look like good footballers.

Situation summed up brilliantly.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Yeh and why is that?

We were shit last season because we decided to revert to being a ridiculously badly run club again, despite new owners.

The players I’ve mentioned are mid-table players because they are. I’d love to be a mid-table Championship player myself, but I don’t want them in my team.

The lack of tactics and playing these mid-table cloggers, that’s probably down to the manager. I’m unwilling to believe that he’d be unable to get 90 minutes out of a Reidewald/Phillips combination. That would take a lot of strain off Peck/Arblaster.

 

[Kona]

How do you know regarding the manager? That’s the problem,people see him as a safe pair of hands because of Slav,not given time or money,Selles who was a shocking appointment. This Wilder football is as bad as I’ve seen at BDTBL,if this was Selles,Adkins etc the pitchforks would be out.

I don’t know for sure, I just think it’s unlikely.

Don’t get me wrong HC, I’m all for a new person coming in, in fact I’d welcome a fresh approach - I just don’t think now is the time.

 

[Keen Blade]

Wilder is clearly a manger whose peak is now well behind him. He is not the answer to take this club forward but at present this club does not have a strategy or plan as to how it moves forward so it makes no sense to get rid of him. What would happen if we did. I doubt if the owners or Bettis have the foggiest of who they would want next. We would end up with a temporary caretaker from the backroom team and invite applications for the job. This would see the usual list of out of work has been and journeyman managers apply and we would end up with a lesser or similar version of Wilder. No up and coming manager with any ambition would touch us with a barge pole currently given the off field issues and absence of any clear direction as to where the club is heading. At least Wilder has a connection and cares.

I think the potential sanctions over the ownership situation are weighing heavily on how we are setting up so negatively. It is not something anything we want but we have to realise there is a realistic possibility that we end up with a points deduction and if that ends up in the 10 - 12 points area that probably takes us from a relatively comfortable mid table to a serious possibility of relegation. Just look at Leicester. The danger is that these tactics just produce to many draws which often the drages you down near the bottom anyway. Better to win one loose one than go two games unbeaten in those circumstances.

Given all that I think that Wilder is the best (least worst) option for now. It is not going to be pretty and I can fully understand that many will decide they don't want to watch such turgid football every week. Be interesting how we approach the Bolton game as this is looking a must win given Norwich next Saturday could be our toughest game of the season so far.

If you think it's better to win one and lose one than draw two ,
Why in earth would you want the
"At 2-2 at HT I'll go completely defensive to try and save the one point we have until - with us under permanent siege - they score from their many shots"
Wilder ?

 

[Kona]

I get the logic, especially with the state of the club and the lack of money, but I think that’s also how we end up permanently kicking the decision down the road..

It’s “only 5 games” now, but he had all of last season. Before that it was give him January, then give him a full season, then give him his own pre-season. Now it’s wait until christmas. At what point are we actually judging what were seeing rather than waiting for the next milestone?

There’s never really a perfect time to change manager. If anything, maybe doing it last year would have meant we acted before this mess got worse, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I’m also not convinced the new additions suddenly change the style. If Choudhury is genuinely one of them then it almost feels like a parody at this point. More physicality, graft and familiarity when we’re already crying out for technical quality and creativity.

And I don’t really buy the “Wilder cares” argument as a reason to keep him. Of course he cares, but every manager cares about the job they’re doing. Caring and being able to get a team organised enough to grind out results isn’t the same as being the right person to take the club forward. Its a minimum.

The bit I really disagree with is the idea that nobody else could get more out of this squad. Wilder has partly built it and currently isn’t getting much out of it himself, so why does that prove someone else couldn’t? There are internationals and players with plenty of experience at a higher level in there. Another manager might not perform miracles, but surely it’s reasonable to think somebody could coach more football into them than this.

The board absolutely deserve a huge amount of blame and I agree the bigger picture is a mess. But the performances, tactics and way the team is set up are still the manager’s responsibility. You can blame individual players for bad games, But when the same problems carry on for months and seasons it stops being an off day.

Maybe Wilder does steady us enough to survive, and maybe that’s the safest option. But personally I can’t keep watching this football. I stopped bothering at times last season because it was so bad, and I’m already getting to the same point again. Ultimately it’s my time and money and I want to actually enjoy watching us. I’m not expecting exceptional football, just some positivity, some intent and occasionally something about the team to actually feel proud of.

For me the bigger risk now is becoming so scared of change that we just accept decline because it feels familiar. Selles got six league games. Wilder seems to get endless extensions to the point where we’re allowed to judge him..

I’d rather take the risk of trying something different than spend another six months finding out what I feel like we already know.

I agree with a lot of what you say, Ink.

The point I was trying to make to about Wilder caring, is that it really means something beyond ‘just a job’ to him. Now that certainly isn’t a reason to keep him or offer a free pass, more so that I think he will put in the extra yard when others may not.

My comments about getting more out of the squad are aimed at them being a collection of Wilder’s signings and it feels limited to how we set up and not very dynamic or creative but you’re right, someone else may be able to coach some of that into them.

I totally agree about not kicking the can down the road. I agreed with the change after the Wembley defeat and not just because of the defeat). Selles was a terrible appointment, however, that isn’t a reason not to try again - despite how many times we have to read that on here.

I’ve said on another thread that I would have let Wilder go at the end of last season, through the front door and with a ‘thank you’ for stabilising us and ensuring the clubs safety.

I guess the question I keep coming back to is do I trust this board to make the right appointment, and we would attract anyone worthwhile with our current situation?

Currently, my answer is no, I don’t.

 

[tyke1889]

Owners have just saved £30m - use that.

We can't say that's not club money to avoid a points deduction, but then use same money for club payments.

 

[Sean Thornton]

A few reasons screaming “mid table” at me:

We were shit last season and we’ve taken the 2 best players away.

Tom Cannon starts up front.

Joe Rothwell plays in midfield.

Mark McGuinness plays at the back.

We play a version of football bereft of tactics and are terrible at both passing and hoofing.

And of the three, the one Wilder threw under the bus is the least poor up to now. And he’s only playing because we haven’t brought anyone in.

 

[Blade56]

Difficult binary choice.

For me if we had new owners that can fund a football club then replace him (don’t like get rid, he’s been a good Blade but the time has come, games moved on).

If we are stuck with this sh!tshow clusterfeck of owners then keep him to go toe-to-toe with them on behalf of fans (like when he was younger V1.0).

But we are where we are and it will take 5-10 years I probably don’t have to sort the current owners out.

I predict in the next few years football ownership, management, governing bodies are going to go though paradigm shifts, scandals, prison sentences, corruption, fraud and more. It’s rotten from the top down driven by mega money and politics these days. The pre and post World Cup events brought it to a head and the boil is about to burst.

The straw that starts the breaking of the camels back will be the entry of the billionaires and trillionaires at Liverpool.

All I want is my pre match Shawarma and to watch a game of footy with my family and mates. But those days alas are memories.