Wilder not yet meeting the challenge

[I should coco]

I do remember them making a statement to the media along the lines that they were going to invest to get Blackburn up the table and were prepared to spend £5m

Think Ullapool, not Man City?

 

[Darthblade]

So you're saying that any Director/benefactor who tries to 'officially' help a club to progress, has an absolute duty to use every penny they have (and more as well if needed) to do whatever it takes to guarantee success as determined by the fans?
Plus the fact that McCabe has never (to my knowledge) gone round seeking 'plaudits'

No that's not what I'm saying ...... I'm saying any Director / benefactor ( with any sense) doesn't expect to get their money back when investing in a football Club.

In other words ...... they go into the relationship expecting to spend money they won't recoup. We ( supporters) are all benefactors of the Club in our own small way as we buy season tickets etc but some benefactors are richer than others and therefore contribute more.

What is not really in doubt, is that despite Tufty's ability to get good results from players who don't cost millions ( his transfer record is quite good ) in order to become a competitive top-end championship side, Tufty needs to receive a "step-up" in the level of financial support that he has previously been given.

I don't believe that any sensible Blades fan is expecting pig-like spending on players, however, Tufty needs more financial support from the Board in January.

UTB & FTP

 

[Maidenhead]

Fair point mate ...... but I would venture to suggest that nobody with grey cells between their ears becomes a Director / benefactor of a football club and expects to make money, or even get their money back. If they do then they're delusional.

Football Clubs are just not that type of investment and so "covering losses" is very nice but no great plaudits due. Providing "real" investment to improve the first-team playing squad and therefore raise the stature and standing of the Club is where the pats on the back are due and this is the part that most blades fans are expectantly waiting for. I suspect that this is why there is still a certain amount of scepticism regarding the role of the Board.

The January transfer window is not an ideal time to be squad building, but its what is needed to get us back on track for the play-offs, so we watch and wait to see just how well Tufty is backed ........

UTB & FTP

"Covering losses is very nice"

It's more than very nice, it's absolutely essential or you go out of business.

Spending other people money on the other hand, now that is very easy and "very nice"

 

[BushBlade]

No that's not what I'm saying ...... I'm saying any Director / benefactor ( with any sense) doesn't expect to get their money back when investing in a football Club.

In other words ...... they go into the relationship expecting to spend money they won't recoup. We ( supporters) are all benefactors of the Club in our own small way as we buy season tickets etc but some benefactors are richer than others and therefore contribute more.

What is not really in doubt, is that despite Tufty's ability to get good results from players who don't cost millions ( his transfer record is quite good ) in order to become a competitive top-end championship side, Tufty needs to receive a "step-up" in the level of financial support that he has previously been given.

I don't believe that any sensible Blades fan is expecting pig-like spending on players, however, Tufty needs more financial support from the Board in January.

UTB & FTP

If you look at the budgets of some of the clubs in the championship you'll see that the pigs' spending isn't even that big. It's nowhere near as big as boro or villa or wolves. They can only lose £39m over three years which is less than one year's parachute payments.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

"Covering losses is very nice"

It's more than very nice, it's absolutely essential or you go out of business.

Spending other people money on the other hand, now that is very easy and "very nice"

He's not had much choice though and given how badly he's run the club generally much of the blame lies at his own door.

 

[NuddysGloves]

No that's not what I'm saying ...... I'm saying any Director / benefactor ( with any sense) doesn't expect to get their money back when investing in a football Club.

In other words ...... they go into the relationship expecting to spend money they won't recoup. We ( supporters) are all benefactors of the Club in our own small way as we buy season tickets etc but some benefactors are richer than others and therefore contribute more.

What is not really in doubt, is that despite Tufty's ability to get good results from players who don't cost millions ( his transfer record is quite good ) in order to become a competitive top-end championship side, Tufty needs to receive a "step-up" in the level of financial support that he has previously been given.

I don't believe that any sensible Blades fan is expecting pig-like spending on players, however, Tufty needs more financial support from the Board in January.

UTB & FTP

This is an honest question, and we need to ignore the millions that McCabe and the Prince have spent year in year out just to ensure we actually have a football club today.....

How much do you mean by "more financial support"? As a random number plucked out of thin air lets say Wilder has £1m to spend in January, would you be content if McCabe and the Prince donated another million of their money to double this figure? Or are you looking for them to give away £10m more of their money? Or more than this?

I only ask this because it's quite often stated on here just how easy it is to spend somebody else's money, so if we say all of McCabe's and the Prince's money is in a pot and you're allowed to dip your hand in and use their money to further fund this football club, how much would you say is a fair amount for them to give away and, by your own admission, never see again?

 

[Maidenhead]

He's not had much choice though and given how badly he's run the club generally much of the blame lies at his own door.

Why do you think that he has run it badly?

I actually think he has done quite well.

He inherited a 3 sided ground, and look at the stadium now.

He inherited a second tier team, which is exactly where we are now,

Yes there have been downs and ups along the way and there is no doubt that he has made mistakes along the way, all of which I'm sure he will acknowledge now when he's blessed with the same 20/20 hindsight as the rest of us.

As my dad used to say "a man who's never made a mistake has never made anything" and whatever mistakes he has made he's paid for out of his own pocket and not out of ours.

 

[FriethBlade]

I don't know what the problem is. 11 years outside the top flight, 6 of them in the third tier is all little old Sheffield United can expect isn't it ?

But don' worry we've got a shiny ground, successful investments in Chengdu Blades, Ferencvacos, a leisure centre, a hotel et al to point at.

In the meantime footballing powerhouses like Bournemouth and Burnley have left us miles behind.

Have we got any ambition ? To praise McCabe for overseeing this debacle is laughable...and don' give me the we'd have gone bust argument as I'd take the Southampton and Leicester model over ours any day

 

[Darthblade]

This is an honest question, and we need to ignore the millions that McCabe and the Prince have spent year in year out just to ensure we actually have a football club today.....

How much do you mean by "more financial support"? As a random number plucked out of thin air lets say Wilder has £1m to spend in January, would you be content if McCabe and the Prince donated another million of their money to double this figure? Or are you looking for them to give away £10m more of their money? Or more than this?

I only ask this because it's quite often stated on here just how easy it is to spend somebody else's money, so if we say all of McCabe's and the Prince's money is in a pot and you're allowed to dip your hand in and use their money to further fund this football club, how much would you say is a fair amount for them to give away and, by your own admission, never see again?

Well that's an interesting question ....... to answer it as best I can, whilst being realistic; if KM and the Prince just carried on covering losses as they are doing now and contributed no additional funds at all ...... we still have the substantial transfer "windfall" from the autumn, which has been estimated ( not by me ) at around £7m.

Therefore given the potential prize that is hovering just out of our reach, you can see why many people are watching with "interest" to see how much of this is made available to Tufty to augment our first team squad.

UTB & FTP

 

[Sean Thornton]

Well that's an interesting question ....... to answer it as best I can, whilst being realistic; if KM and the Prince just carried on covering losses as they are doing now and contributed no additional funds at all ...... we still have the substantial transfer "windfall" from the autumn, which has been estimated ( not by me ) at around £7m.

Therefore given the potential prize that is hovering just out of our reach, you can see why many people are watching with "interest" to see how much of this is made available to Tufty to augment our first team squad.

UTB & FTP

I think that's a reasonable assumption. My main issue is not so much the fact that people doubt that CW will not be given those funds (I doubt it myself) or any extra (again, I don't believe so and have said) but just seem ready to pounce when it doesn't happen as if they are one of a select band of visionaries when in fact they are no more visionary than the average fan but get by on "l told you so".

It's not unreasonable of me to believe your "interest" is actually an expectation that he won't get it to spend, is it?

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Why do you think that he has run it badly?

I actually think he has done quite well.

He inherited a 3 sided ground, and look at the stadium now.

He inherited a second tier team, which is exactly where we are now,

Yes there have been downs and ups along the way and there is no doubt that he has made mistakes along the way, all of which I'm sure he will acknowledge now when he's blessed with the same 20/20 hindsight as the rest of us.

As my dad used to say "a man who's never made a mistake has never made anything" and whatever mistakes he has made he's paid for out of his own pocket and not out of ours.

I'm guessing he's been in charge for 20 years now and only one of those has been in the top flight and six were in the third division.
By any comparable standard - with our own history or other similar sized or smaller clubs - it's been poor management.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

I'm guessing he's been in charge for 20 years now and only one of those has been in the top flight and six were in the third division.
By any comparable standard - with our own history or other similar sized or smaller clubs - it's been poor management.

The Pig gets more confident each day,first having a pop at our manager,now our Chairman,should worry about his own inept manager and chairman before ours

 

[Maidenhead]

I'm guessing he's been in charge for 20 years now and only one of those has been in the top flight and six were in the third division.
By any comparable standard - with our own history or other similar sized or smaller clubs - it's been poor management.

What's history got to do with anything?

Football is played in the here and now.

Past performance has absolutely no bearing on future results.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

What's history got to do with anything?

Football is played in the here and now.

Past performance has absolutely no bearing on future results.

If you are evaluating performance, you'd struggle to do so without comparing either history or the performance of other entities of a similar size in the same environment.
On both counts, United have been poor over the last 20 years.
Can't really see the point in denying that.

 

[Maidenhead]

If you are evaluating performance, you'd struggle to do so without comparing either history or the performance of other entities of a similar size in the same environment.
On both counts, United have been poor over the last 20 years.
Can't really see the point in denying that.

That's bollocks.

Polly peck were great in the 60s but they'e not looking too clever now

Maybe if we could get Gillespie, Hagan, Pace, Woodward and Currie back at their best your argument may have a trace of validity.

The last 20 years have been a different game played by a different team.

History has absolutely no bearing on current performance otherwise how the hell could Bradford Barnsley, Swansea and Bournemouth all end up having spells in the premier league?

 

[Pedro's Winger]

That's bollocks.

Polly peck were great in the 60s but they'e not looking too clever now

Maybe if we could get Gillespie, Hagan, Pace, Woodward and Currie back at their best your argument may have a trace of validity.

The last 20 years have been a different game played by a different team.

History has absolutely no bearing on current performance otherwise how the hell could Bradford Barnsley, Swansea and Bournemouth all end up having spells in the premier league?

So we agree we evaluate Polly Peck's performance based on its history and that other smaller clubs have performed better than United over the last 20 years.
Think we got there in the end.

 

[Maidenhead]

You have completely lost me.

I think that you are saying that United have a long and semi successful history so not being in the top flight now is a failure of management now?

I am.saying that there is no correlation between history and the present in football.

Good teams are built on good players, those players get older and retire.

Your next set of players aren't so good so you struggle to match previous achievements.

Every team wants the best players but they can't all have them and there is no automatic right for a team that once had the best players to continue to do so.

I blame Jimmy Hill.

When every team could more or less afford to pay anybody and transfer fees were the only issue we could compete on a level field, but when players could suddenly demand whatever they wanted money became the biggest issue and the have's got bigger and the have nots didn't.

On that basis any history prior to 1960 whatever it was becomes irrelevant.

We have never been a rich club and to be honest it wouldn't surprise me if we never are and nor would it bother me.

Its my club. I roll with the punches, enjoy the good times when they come but to really enjoy them you have to endure the bad times too.