Wilder not yet meeting the challenge

[alcoblade]

Hmmmm ....... I don't think its necessarily "moronic" to highlight the lack of depth (quality) in our current squad, nor the very modest levels of investment into the playing squad in the summer. Having said that ...... excessive criticism of Tufty and the players is also unwarranted as they are in a much higher position now than we would have expected to be. I think many people are just frustrated as key injuries & suspensions have exposed our squad depth and this is a shame given our start to the season.

Tufty appears to feel the same way judging his recent comments and I suspect that he's watching the board with "interest" to see how they support him in January.

Hopefully our business will be discussed, negotiated and lined up for immediate implementation first week in January ....... not middle of February as we generally do. It would be a shame to miss out on the opportunity of a crack at the play-offs under Tufty's guidance ....

UTB & FTP

Good points overall, but to banner any lack of squad depth under “Wilder not yet meeting the challenge” is thinly veiled criticism at best, and I’d describe it as moronic.

He’s worked miracles with what he’s got. That’s the only way of appraising Wilder’s performance right now.

 

[Bartleby]

Anyone disagreeing with a stated fact is an idiot, FACT

 

[alcoblade]

Fair point; but the Prince's investment has yet to materialise ...... and there appears to be some heated debate as to when we should expect to see it

Now ...... would be a helpful time for a first instalment to give Tufty a chance in January.

UTB & FTP

My guess ( ) is that unless anything’s changed, he’s got £2,000,000 to spend in January, and that includes all fees and wages associated with the contracts.

Some people are going to be continually disappointed between the gap in actual spend and what they expected. This is all about the owners and how much they’ve got or are prepared to spend.

Wilder will be as disappointed with it as the rest of us. None of the criticism should be aimed at him.

 

[Maidenhead]

My guess ( ) is that unless anything’s changed, he’s got £2,000,000 to spend in January, and that includes all fees and wages associated with the contracts.

Some people are going to be continually disappointed between the gap in actual spend and what they expected. This is all about the owners and how much they’ve got or are prepared to spend.

Wilder will be as disappointed with it as the rest of us. None of the criticism should be aimed at him.

Is that one half seasons wages or all the wages due throughout the length of any new contracts?

 

[alcoblade]

Is that one half seasons wages or all the wages due throughout the length of any new contracts?

I’m not sure about that bit fella. You’d hope the former.

 

[BushBlade]

My guess ( ) is that unless anything’s changed, he’s got £2,000,000 to spend in January, and that includes all fees and wages associated with the contracts.

Some people are going to be continually disappointed between the gap in actual spend and what they expected. This is all about the owners and how much they’ve got or are prepared to spend.

Wilder will be as disappointed with it as the rest of us. None of the criticism should be aimed at him.

And it will continue to be so until our owners sell up and then it's a matter of do we get owners like Wolves have or owners like The Pigs have.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

And it will continue to be so until our owners sell up and then it's a matter of do we get owners like Wolves have or owners like The Pigs have.

And I thought the general consensus was that we didn't want to go the way of the big spenders?

Or at least is was up until a couple of weeks ago..

 

[BushBlade]

And I thought the general consensus was that we didn't want to go the way of the big spenders?

Or at least is was up until a couple of weeks ago..

There is no general consensus as far as I'm aware and there's always been a number of people who've expected us to 'spend big'. They just tend to go quiet when we're doing well. Our two owners will never be able to provide the sort of money some expect. We have posts every year when the accounts come out showing we've lost money again but you still read posts about McCabe taking money out of the club. And no, I'm not going to provide examples, because I cannot be arsed trawling through threads trying to find them.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

There is no general consensus as far as I'm aware and there's always been a number of people who've expected us to 'spend big'. They just tend to go quiet when we're doing well. Our two owners will never be able to provide the sort of money some expect. We have posts every year when the accounts come out showing we've lost money again but you still read posts about McCabe taking money out of the club. And no, I'm not going to provide examples, because I cannot be arsed trawling through threads trying to find them.

You don't need to point me towards those comments. The ones suggesting McCabe should just sell up?? Brilliant idea, perhaps to some tuna slaughtering chance?? Barmy

Need big money for promotion? Wolves suggest so.. Pigs predicament suggest not. I think its more to do with what happens If you get promoted and how well you are prepared for life in PL.

 

[itsinyerblood]

There is no general consensus as far as I'm aware and there's always been a number of people who've expected us to 'spend big'. They just tend to go quiet when we're doing well. Our two owners will never be able to provide the sort of money some expect. We have posts every year when the accounts come out showing we've lost money again but you still read posts about McCabe taking money out of the club. And no, I'm not going to provide examples, because I cannot be arsed trawling through threads trying to find them.

Some good and necessary points in your post BB. I don't think HillmortonBlade was being adversarial, just pointing a spotlight on some of the contrary views that crop up from time to time.

You're right, we do have posters who imagine that we have a money tree that we can take several million from and spend like there's no tomorrow. At the moment we're not exactly strapped for cash, but we certainly aren't one of the new breed who miraculously pull out their wallets and spend £30 million on a moderate defender, and then when this doesn't work out, they spend even more to get what they want. It's a new day, with new rules of ownership, and the days of standing, of players getting less than £100 per week etc, etc, are well and truly behind us.

If we ever get to the Premiership, then, and only then will we be appealing to someone who has millions to invest in the squad. Kev and the Prince will be rewarded for their investments, and we will be on a new pathway to what I hope is a bright future. Of course we'll get beaten some weeks, and then we'll beat other teams, that will be the nature of this new future. If Chris Wilder is still our manager I'll feel optimistic that we'll respond to this new challenge, but until then, as you've suggested BB, perhaps those posters who fantasise about the club spending millions will take a rain-check about the realities of life at the Lane.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Good points overall, but to banner any lack of squad depth under “Wilder not yet meeting the challenge” is thinly veiled criticism at best, and I’d describe it as moronic.

He’s worked miracles with what he’s got. That’s the only way of appraising Wilder’s performance right now.

Not true is it.
If he'd worked miracles with what's he's got, we would have more than one point from five games.
He's managed brilliantly since taking over but over the last few games he hasn't found a way to get results with depleted resources.
Said it before, but you can be sure Wilder himself will not be showering himself with praise for the last five games and will be trying to think of a way to manage his way through tougher times.
He'd be a moron not to.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

Not true is it.
If he'd worked miracles with what's he's got, we would have more than one point from five games.
He's managed brilliantly since taking over but over the last few games he hasn't found a way to get results with depleted resources.
Said it before, but you can be sure Wilder himself will not be showering himself with praise for the last five games and will be trying to think of a way to manage his way through tougher times.
He'd be a moron not to.

Pigs back again banging on about our manager,would have thought he would be more concerned with his own under achieving manager

 

[alcoblade]

Not true is it.
If he'd worked miracles with what's he's got, we would have more than one point from five games.
He's managed brilliantly since taking over but over the last few games he hasn't found a way to get results with depleted resources.
Said it before, but you can be sure Wilder himself will not be showering himself with praise for the last five games and will be trying to think of a way to manage his way through tougher times.
He'd be a moron not to.

Keep digging.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

There is no debate on football forums, just a series of entrenched points of view.

Anyone disagreeing with a stated fact is an idiot, FACT

I started a thread calling Fleck a wanker as deliberate piece of mischief making because his recklessness had potentially cost us three points on the night and him a three game suspension that would obviously hit us hard.

In response I got a load of personal abuse which I can live with and a series of opinions, amounting to an argument about the accuracy of the referees decision.

I even got another poster starting a thread calling me a wanker, despite him never having asked me how or why I had come to my conclusion.

What I didn't get was one single post asking "why do you think that?"

That's how you have a debate.

I find some posters amusing, some tiresome, some repetitive single agenda bores, and some interesting.

Personally I don't care what anyone else thinks of my views and I love to have a good debate, but I accepted a long time ago that was very unlikely ever to happen as the vast majority of posters are so far up their own arses that they can't even see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I will continue to read this forum and to chip in occasionally when I think that I have something witty or informative to contribute.

I even live on in the hope of a good debate, and will ask questions to try and stimulate one.

In the spirit of that I'll ask why does anyone think that our owners are obligated to spend millions of pounds that they haven't got in the January transfer window, and where is this queue of billionaires waiting to buy the club?

What do you mean by that?

 

[Tommoblade66]

Personally I'm not fancying any of these games over christmas and new year, not in our current form

 

[Darthblade]

Good points overall, but to banner any lack of squad depth under “Wilder not yet meeting the challenge” is thinly veiled criticism at best, and I’d describe it as moronic.

He’s worked miracles with what he’s got. That’s the only way of appraising Wilder’s performance right now.

I'm agreeing with you here mate ...... he has produced much more than we've any right to expect with the modest budget that was made available to him, no doubt about that.

He's only a messiah and can only be expected to work so many miracles on a limited budget. Tufty isn't responsible for the lack of quality in our back-up squad ..... he can only work with what he's been given.

Building a strong Championship squad takes time ( or shit loads of well spent money) and Tufty has had neither ........ we need the "rub of the green" in our next couple of games to restore some confidence in the players .....

UTB & FTP

 

[I should coco]

Fair point; but the Prince's investment has yet to materialise

He's subbed 50% of the losses for the last 3 years, so he's already in for over £10m. The losses don't just 'go away' once the accounts are published. Someone has to put cahs in to cover them and of course that means that less is then available for transfer.

It's not 'Liverpool' type investment so far,I'll grant you, but equally not petty cash either.

 

[Maidenhead]

What do you mean by that?

To be honest I though it was pretty self explanatory but if you let me know which bit you can't get your head around I'd be more than happy to discuss it

 

[Silent Blade]

Don't you mean after the Leicester game,the one we needed to win 9-0?

I thought Blackburn was the last one? But as we're the same age perhaps dementia has arrived.

Last 3 home games of that season

Blackburn (h) Lost 0-1. Blackburn's Coughlin sent off in the 1st half after a bad foul on Sabella (who wasnt able to continue and missed the remaining games)
Cambridge (a) Lost 1-0. Charlton winning their last match meant we had to beat Leicester by 9 goals.
Leicester (h) 2-2

 

[ucandomagic]

Been listening to Stoke and West Brom fans on the radio today. They were unanimous in not wanting Pulis back to save them, and said that they would rather watch attractive games in the Champ than defensive set-ups every match in the Prem.

Owners want the Prem - fans want to enjoy the games - the 2 are not always compatible.

There are only 5 or 6 teams that can afford to play attractive Prem football and still be secure. We don’t, and are unlikely ever, to have the funding to join them. The danger is that we attract sufficient funds to get there and then become Pulised in our obsession to stay there. I for one don’t fancy a back 5 who are all 6 foot 7 with 2 holding midfielders in front.

So give me our current level of investment into genuine, honest players and if we get up at some stage then we can reinvest the cash without regarding staying up as a higher priority than playing proper football.

As long as we have Tufty I think this will happen - but if we get him up and then hover near the bottom there will be a temptation for becoming Pulidyced!

Magic Decisions can be Difficult!

 

[BladeFisher]

Last 3 home games of that season

Blackburn (h) Lost 0-1. Blackburn's Coughlin sent off in the 1st half after a bad foul on Sabella (who wasnt able to continue and missed the remaining games)
Cambridge (a) Lost 1-0. Charlton winning their last match meant we had to beat Leicester by 9 goals.
Leicester (h) 2-2

Cheers Silent. Mind I hadn't appreciated that 'for one game only' the Abbey Stadium was moved 150 miles up the A1 to Sheffield 2.

 

[Silent Blade]

Cheers Silent. Mind I hadn't appreciated that 'for one game only' the Abbey Stadium was moved 150 miles up the A1 to Sheffield 2.

Me too. My dad drove down to Mary Hare, took me and my mate to Cambridge. It was a miserable journey back home. Got back to school in the next day

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

There is no debate on football forums, just a series of entrenched points of view.

Anyone disagreeing with a stated fact is an idiot, FACT

I started a thread calling Fleck a wanker as deliberate piece of mischief making because his recklessness had potentially cost us three points on the night and him a three game suspension that would obviously hit us hard.

In response I got a load of personal abuse which I can live with and a series of opinions, amounting to an argument about the accuracy of the referees decision.

I even got another poster starting a thread calling me a wanker, despite him never having asked me how or why I had come to my conclusion.

What I didn't get was one single post asking "why do you think that?"

That's how you have a debate.

I find some posters amusing, some tiresome, some repetitive single agenda bores, and some interesting.

Personally I don't care what anyone else thinks of my views and I love to have a good debate, but I accepted a long time ago that was very unlikely ever to happen as the vast majority of posters are so far up their own arses that they can't even see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I will continue to read this forum and to chip in occasionally when I think that I have something witty or informative to contribute.

I even live on in the hope of a good debate, and will ask questions to try and stimulate one.

In the spirit of that I'll ask why does anyone think that our owners are obligated to spend millions of pounds that they haven't got in the January transfer window, and where is this queue of billionaires waiting to buy the club?

If you deliberately and mischievously put up a provocative post (which you say you did in the case of Fleck), it is hardly surprising that you do not get the reasoned debate you say you hoped to indulge in. (But I did think the discussion of the ref's decision was interesting.) I am perhaps not alone in tending not to get involved in such threads. I have found that if you ask questions or express opinions with a touch of humility and showing an interest in others' opinions, many posters are willing to contribute to a debate, sometimes minds are changed, and sometimes people agree to differ.
The main downside of a forum in my view is the short-termism. 5 good results and we are on our way to the Champions League; 5 poor results and we are in deep trouble.
I regret to say that in answer to your last question, I have no knowledge other than to guess that they do not feel an obligation to spend millions, and that there is no queue of billionaires. Finance is not my strong point. In fact I'm still looking for my strong point...

 

[Darthblade]

He's subbed 50% of the losses for the last 3 years, so he's already in for over £10m. The losses don't just 'go away' once the accounts are published. Someone has to put cahs in to cover them and of course that means that less is then available for transfer.

It's not 'Liverpool' type investment so far,I'll grant you, but equally not petty cash either.

Fair point mate ...... but I would venture to suggest that nobody with grey cells between their ears becomes a Director / benefactor of a football club and expects to make money, or even get their money back. If they do then they're delusional.

Football Clubs are just not that type of investment and so "covering losses" is very nice but no great plaudits due. Providing "real" investment to improve the first-team playing squad and therefore raise the stature and standing of the Club is where the pats on the back are due and this is the part that most blades fans are expectantly waiting for. I suspect that this is why there is still a certain amount of scepticism regarding the role of the Board.

The January transfer window is not an ideal time to be squad building, but its what is needed to get us back on track for the play-offs, so we watch and wait to see just how well Tufty is backed ........

UTB & FTP

 

[Sean Thornton]

Fair point mate ...... but I would venture to suggest that nobody with grey cells between their ears becomes a Director / benefactor of a football club and expects to make money, or even get their money back. If they do then they're delusional.

Football Clubs are just not that type of investment and so "covering losses" is very nice but no great plaudits due. Providing "real" investment to improve the first-team playing squad and therefore raise the stature and standing of the Club is where the pats on the back are due and this is the part that most blades fans are expectantly waiting for. I suspect that this is why there is still a certain amount of scepticism regarding the role of the Board.

The January transfer window is not an ideal time to be squad building, but its what is needed to get us back on track for the play-offs, so we watch and wait to see just how well Tufty is backed ........

UTB & FTP

The money is to be made by getting a club to the PL then selling out. Sadly only a few make it.

If losses weren't covered, there would be no club. Who would pay the bills? Plus I can't recall many pats on the back when McCabe spent millions via Robson and Robinson.

When the expected level of "investment" in the first team, and we have been promised that, doesn't happen in January, the most outraged and seemingly surprised - funnily enough - will be the ones predicting it for months,

 

[United Aren't Back.]

'Wilder hasn't yet met the challenge of overcoming adversity'.

What about the adversity he faced (without the benefit of any brownie points) after the first four games last season.

Or taking over a squad containing the biggest set of wankers in the history of the club and transforming it into a team that tore up league one.

 

[Harrisblade]

Fair point mate ...... but I would venture to suggest that nobody with grey cells between their ears becomes a Director / benefactor of a football club and expects to make money, or even get their money back. If they do then they're delusional.

Football Clubs are just not that type of investment and so "covering losses" is very nice but no great plaudits due. Providing "real" investment to improve the first-team playing squad and therefore raise the stature and standing of the Club is where the pats on the back are due and this is the part that most blades fans are expectantly waiting for. I suspect that this is why there is still a certain amount of scepticism regarding the role of the Board.

The January transfer window is not an ideal time to be squad building, but its what is needed to get us back on track for the play-offs, so we watch and wait to see just how well Tufty is backed ........

UTB & FTP

So you're saying that any Director/benefactor who tries to 'officially' help a club to progress, has an absolute duty to use every penny they have (and more as well if needed) to do whatever it takes to guarantee success as determined by the fans?
Plus the fact that McCabe has never (to my knowledge) gone round seeking 'plaudits'

 

[BushBlade]

Fair point mate ...... but I would venture to suggest that nobody with grey cells between their ears becomes a Director / benefactor of a football club and expects to make money, or even get their money back. If they do then they're delusional.

Football Clubs are just not that type of investment and so "covering losses" is very nice but no great plaudits due. Providing "real" investment to improve the first-team playing squad and therefore raise the stature and standing of the Club is where the pats on the back are due and this is the part that most blades fans are expectantly waiting for. I suspect that this is why there is still a certain amount of scepticism regarding the role of the Board.

The January transfer window is not an ideal time to be squad building, but its what is needed to get us back on track for the play-offs, so we watch and wait to see just how well Tufty is backed ........

UTB & FTP

There's a lot of delusional owners in the championship. Only yesterday Barnsley were taken over by a consortium that includes several 'investors'. It's this delusion that is causing the problem, these deluded fuckers are running clubs at big losses in the hope they hit the PL jackpot.

 

[I should coco]

There's a lot of delusional owners in the championship. Only yesterday Barnsley were taken over by a consortium that includes several 'investors'

Yes but they have done their due diligence and have confidence in their judgement so know that this time it will be 'different'. As the media have not yet tired of telling us, they have Billy Beane of Moneyball fame, so what works in baseball will obviously transfer to football. Obviously.

It's this delusion that is causing the problem, these deluded fuckers are running clubs at big losses in the hope they hit the PL jackpot.

It is quite funny though when you get the Venkys or Vinncent Tan. The apochryphal story about the former is that they thought they'd bought a Premier League 'franchise' and didn't understand they could be relegated. If it isn't entirely true, it is still hilarious that these foreign chancers can come here and lose a packet. Absolutely side splitting in fact as long as it happens in Lancashire mill towns and S6.

Hang in there McCabe and steady at the helm*

* A nautical term and not particulary intended to entice our resident matelot to abuse McCabe, for not being rich enough.

 

[BushBlade]

Yes but they have done their due diligence and have confidence in their judgement so know that this time it will be 'different'. As the media have not yet tired of telling us, they have Billy Beane of Moneyball fame, so what works in baseball will obviously transfer to football. Obviously.




It is quite funny though when you get the Venkys or Vinncent Tan. The apochryphal story about the former is that they thought they'd bought a Premier League 'franchise' and didn't understand they could be relegated. If it isn't entirely true, it is still hilarious that these foreign chancers can come here and lose a packet. Absolutely side splitting in fact as long as it happens in Lancashire mill towns and S6.

Hang in there McCabe and steady at the helm*

* A nautical term and not particulary intended to entice our resident matelot to abuse McCabe, for not being rich enough.

I suspect there is some truth in the Venkys story. I do remember them making a statement to the media along the lines that they were going to invest to get Blackburn up the table and were prepared to spend £5m. It's like they genuinely didn't have a clue what they'd got involved in.