Wilder new deal

[Flatulent_Bob]

With one of the biggest wage bills in the league and parachute payments it should be an expectation. In the same way that if we manage to get promoted I expect us to to be in the bottom 3 for most of next season.

I do think you need to credit the rebuild requirement over the summer. Even taking into account the parachute payments and wage bill, he balanced his spend with outgoings last summer and put in place a solid first phase. Cooper and Burrows look incredible signings for the money, Anel and Souza have been turned around from expensive drains on our resources to significant assets and in O’hare and Campbell we’ve picked up some potentially very good squad assets from those a available. He also covered our weakness well with short term fixes likes Souttar.
A complete squad overhaul normally takes 2-3 windows minimum and it doesn’t often end up in as strong a position as we’re in with zero net transfer spend.
He’s not got everything right in my view but credit where it’s due on the work done so far this season, it’s been an extraordinarily success….upto now.

 

[KiwiBlabe]

I’m pretty sure a couple of those players were around the same price, if not cheaper. Brewster or Wilder?

I remember the fees were not the issue at the time, but the likes of Villa and Fulham blew us out of the water with the salaries they could pay.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I remember the fees were not the issue at the time, but the likes of Villa and Fulham blew us out of the water with the salaries they could pay.

They copied our model, just with much deeper pockets and massively inflated the market.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I remember the fees were not the issue at the time, but the likes of Villa and Fulham blew us out of the water with the salaries they could pay.

They copied our model, just with much deeper pockets and massively inflated the market.
Soon Palace, West Ham and others copied them making the situation worse for us.
Now it looks like no PL team is seriously looking at it, especially after Palace appear to have picked up some poorer buys ( I think they’ll all come good personally) from the Championship for £10-20m a pop.

 

[Houston_Blade]

I do think you need to credit the rebuild requirement over the summer. Even taking into account the parachute payments and wage bill, he balanced his spend with outgoings last summer and put in place a solid first phase. Cooper and Burrows look incredible signings for the money, Anel and Souza have been turned around from expensive drains on our resources to significant assets and in O’hare and Campbell we’ve picked up some potentially very good squad assets from those a available. He also covered our weakness well with short term fixes likes Souttar.
A complete squad overhaul normally takes 2-3 windows minimum and it doesn’t often end up in as strong a position as we’re in with zero net transfer spend.
He’s not got everything right in my view but credit where it’s due on the work done so far this season, it’s been an extraordinarily success….upto now.

He’s doing a good job, don’t get me wrong. I just don’t get the rush to give him a long contract based on where we are at the moment. We are where we should be in my opinion.

Some good signings, Cooper being the standout, Burrows is too inconsistent for him to be classed as ‘incredible’, he almost cost us a goal today with some poor play. Campbell has been good but needs to be available more. Moore is a bit shit. Souttar was great but he’s been flogged to death and subsequently he’s done for the season.

On the Anel and Souza point, one was already a proven very good player in the Championship, the other one is in that weird gap where he’s too good for the league we’re in but didn’t look good in a poor team in the league above. He obviously fancies it a lot more in this league.

Like I said he’s doing well but nothing to write home about and certainly nothing to be giving Pardew contracts out on the back off and making him rich again when he gets bored or gets sacked.

 

[KiwiBlabe]

With one of the biggest wage bills in the league and parachute payments it should be an expectation. In the same way that if we manage to get promoted I expect us to to be in the bottom 3 for most of next season.

High expectations, we all know it's not that simple though. The turnaround from last year to this has been amazing in one transfer window.
I did misread the OP about a long term contract, and i agree we should reward him with a 2 or 3 year deal soon.
Some others on this post seem to just want to beat Wilder with the mistakes he has previously made with little or no credit given for the amazing job he did/is doing. I'm a bit of a dinosaur and I like having someone like Wilder whoes values mirror mine. Hard word, honesty and maximizing talent are recognized and he delivers the same.

 

[Houston_Blade]

High expectations, we all know it's not that simple though. The turnaround from last year to this has been amazing in one transfer window.
I did misread the OP about a long term contract, and i agree we should reward him with a 2 or 3 year deal soon.
Some others on this post seem to just want to beat Wilder with the mistakes he has previously made with little or no credit given for the amazing job he did/is doing. I'm a bit of a dinosaur and I like having someone like Wilder whoes values mirror mine. Hard word, honesty and maximizing talent are recognized and he delivers the same.

I get it, he’s a Blade, he gets the club and for me it’s both pleasing to see and it’s holding us back. We are a club that loves parochialism, the rumours threads over the years about ex-players returning are proof enough. We’ll never move to the next level as a club with this outlook.

There are managers in the league overachieving with a lot less than us, at the moment we are ‘achieving’ if I were to give us a mid term grade. If he gets us promoted and makes some astute signings in January then we’ll be ‘exceeding’ and the 2 year contract will be just reward.

 

[Keen Blade]

Some people fail to understand that a contract is about protecting the club from losing an asset and not about rewarding past successes.

I recall a period when CW was rewarding various players' past achievements by giving them a new contract - and thinking it didn't make logical sense - we were then stuck with players for longer than their shelf-life.

Not to say I'm unhappy with CW , but your post just jogged my memory.
(though I can't now remember the specific players)

 

[RecordBreakers]

The new owners need to get him signed up, on a 4 or 5 year deal, so he can build a dynasty.

We should be top given 2 points off us, all this with 2 of the worst strikers ever seen in professional football and an injury list longer than Vanessa Feltz belt.

Americans sort it out.

Not if we want to progress. Just an honest opinion

 

[RecordBreakers]

Some of your are so simple drop at bit of form were under cosh. Beat Watford away we're world beaters. Trust the process

 

[Aston max]

Not one of us knows what the level of investment will be in the playing side.
It could be 10p or 30m but wilder won't be given the keys to the safe, he'll be giving a list of options he would like (bbd at the top I'd assume) but I expect someone else will have the final say
But I don't think he'll be offered any contract talks till may/June till we see where we are ? And even then I think they'll replace him ( hope I'm wrong but he probably deserves another go at the premiership
On a separate note loved the look of Bournemouth,s new training centre

 

[AWetFlannel]

We’re not exceeding anything in my opinion at the moment apart from we’re winning games with players who shouldn’t be in the squad, the reason these players are in the squad is because Wilder and his recruitment pals signed a bunch of crocks and we’re seeing the fallout of that now.

Would love to see this little narrative backed up.

So Souttar, Shackleton, Rak-Sayki, Campbell and Moore are all crocks and presumably bad signings as a result. He also signed Cooper and O'Hare, who have worse injury records than most on that list but have remained injury free so far; are they also bad signings and crocks who will inevitably fall to injury?

Then there's Anel, Souza and Davies who were signed by Hecky and have had injuries this season, but presumably that is also Wilder's fault.

Then there's Seriki, RND and Arblaster, crocks the lot of em and also Wilder's fault because he allowed them through the academy?

Nowt to do with luck, no blame on previous managers, the squad wasn't thin; it was as robust and well funded as Leeds', Burnley's and Luton's. Had he signed top Championship players with exemplary injury records, who also had the willpower to remain injury free and also cost fuck all, he wouldn't have had to get us in a brilliant position the hard way, displaying the guts, fight and spirit fans love.

What a bunch of wankers Wilder and his recruitment pals are.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Would love to see this little narrative backed up.

So Souttar, Shackleton, Rak-Sayki, Campbell and Moore are all crocks and presumably bad signings as a result. He also signed Cooper and O'Hare, who have worse injury records than most on that list but have remained injury free so far; are they also bad signings and crocks who will inevitably fall to injury?

Then there's Anel, Souza and Davies who were signed by Hecky and have had injuries this season, but presumably that is also Wilder's fault.

Then there's Seriki, RND and Arblaster, crocks the lot of em and also Wilder's fault because he allowed them through the academy?

Nowt to do with luck, no blame on previous managers, the squad wasn't thin; it was as robust and well funded as Leeds', Burnley's and Luton's. Had he signed top Championship players with exemplary injury records, who also had the willpower to remain injury free and also cost fuck all, he wouldn't have had to get us in a brilliant position the hard way, displaying the guts, fight and spirit fans love.

What a bunch of wankers Wilder and his recruitment pals are.

Souttar, Shackleton, Campbell, Cooper and JRS all have a history of serious injuries. 4 of these players that were signed for the first team squad and have been injured more than I’d expect thus far. This is what I refer to as signing crocks. Moore has also been used a lot and has had a couple of niggles.

Seriki, RND and Arblaster weren’t signed by Wilder so not sure why you’ve brought them into it, it’s a shame that they’re injured. See the other thread on injuries for the complaint I have about our constant injuries that were blamed on Hecky before but seem to keep occurring under Wilder as well. A good question is “What is causing this?!”. Various factors are blamed and an investigation was undertaken last season, seemingly we haven’t learnt from it.

I don’t think Wilder can be held responsible for Hecky signing crocks either.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Souttar, Shackleton, Campbell, Cooper and JRS all have a history of serious injuries. 4 of these players that were signed for the first team squad and have been injured more than I’d expect thus far. This is what I refer to as signing crocks. Moore has also been used a lot and has had a couple of niggles.

Seriki, RND and Arblaster weren’t signed by Wilder so not sure why you’ve brought them into it, it’s a shame that they’re injured. See the other thread on injuries for the complaint I have about our constant injuries that were blamed on Hecky before but seem to keep occurring under Wilder as well. A good question is “What is causing this?!”. Various factors are blamed and an investigation was undertaken last season, seemingly we haven’t learnt from it.

I don’t think Wilder can be held responsible for Hecky signing crocks either.

I've brought non-Wilder signings into it because they're just as much the cause of our weak XIs and benches as the ones he signed. You said "the reason these players are in the squad is because Wilder and his recruitment pals signed a bunch of crocks", which is seemingly holding Wilder solely responsible for the weakness of the squad.

Signing players with exemplary fitness records costs more money, so if you are picking players up for free and signing loans, they are more likely to have a history of injuries, not be as good or have less potential.

You've taken a massive positive (that despite injuries - the causes of which are complex - we've managed to get results) and framed it as, "the only reason we've had to do something so positive is because he's shit at recruiting players".

You're point was exaggerated and unfair imo. A significant portion of the blame for the injuries (including the role of luck) is not on Wilder, yet you pin it on him to undermine the positive things he's undoubtedly done.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Signing players with exemplary fitness records costs more money, so if you are picking players up for free and signing loans, they are more likely to have a history of injuries, not be as good or have less potential.

That’s fine then, let’s just accept it and pretend we can’t do any better.

You've taken a massive positive (that despite injuries - the causes of which are complex - we've managed to get results) and framed it as, "the only reason we've had to do something so positive is because he's shit at recruiting players".

I haven’t at all. The reason we’re top is because we’ve done really well with the likes of Souza, Hamer, Campbell, Cooper and Anel in the squad. We have 4 points from 12 since the wheels fell off a little bit and the injuries kicked in.

The point is that we shouldn’t be jumping to give Wilder a new deal just yet, let him earn it first. To me that means promotion, we were a bookies favourite for a reason. He’s doing a good job so far, let’s reward him when the job is complete.

 

[McGrath]

Gerrit

That’s fine then, let’s just accept it and pretend we can’t do any better.


I haven’t at all. The reason we’re top is because we’ve done really well with the likes of Souza, Hamer, Campbell, Cooper and Anel in the squad. We have 4 points from 12 since the wheels fell off a little bit and the injuries kicked in.

The point is that we shouldn’t be jumping to give Wilder a new deal just yet, let him earn it first. To me that means promotion, we were a bookies favourite for a reason. He’s doing a good job so far, let’s reward him when the job is complete.

It's not just about Wilder though. His coaching staff will probably be tied to similar deals.

They won't be earning as much and have families. If they are uncertain about where they'll be in the summer and worried they'll be out of work. What's to stop them leaving if another club wants to give them a longer deal on better pay?

Losing any of them right now could harm us.

 

[AWetFlannel]

That’s fine then, let’s just accept it and pretend we can’t do any better.


I haven’t at all. The reason we’re top is because we’ve done really well with the likes of Souza, Hamer, Campbell, Cooper and Anel in the squad. We have 4 points from 12 since the wheels fell off a little bit and the injuries kicked in.

The point is that we shouldn’t be jumping to give Wilder a new deal just yet, let him earn it first. To me that means promotion, we were a bookies favourite for a reason. He’s doing a good job so far, let’s reward him when the job is complete.

Didn't know any bookies had us as favourites tbh, most the stuff I saw had us 4th-6th.

 

[The Crab]

There’s a part of me that feels it would be churlish to not offer a new contract.

But this is something that needs to be looked at objectively, and COH won’t have the red and white specs on like the rest of us.

Achievement wise, Wilder is right up there with the best for us.

But…

9th place was an extraordinary achievement. Playing a system that not many teams seemed to suss. But when they did, there was no plan B.

To be fair, that was how things were with Hecky too. Both of them working with budgets that were nowhere near what was required. This suggests to me a club culture rather than blaming either of them.

But nice guys though they are, and good at a certain level, but neither are premier managers. It actually pains me to say that because even though I thought him coming back was a bad idea, there has never been a shred of doubt in my mind that he loves the club.

So, those who are banging the “but we finished 9th” drum are absolutely correct.

The slappings and relegations are equally correct, but seem to be overlooked by advocates of the above.

 

[Nick Jansky]

I recall a period when CW was rewarding various players' past achievements by giving them a new contract - and thinking it didn't make logical sense - we were then stuck with players for longer than their shelf-life.

Not to say I'm unhappy with CW , but your post just jogged my memory.
(though I can't now remember the specific players)

The ridiculous new contract for a rapidly declining Leon Clarke was the standout one. At that time Wilder believed he had earned the right to run the club like his own personal fiefdom and the Prince’s biggest error was not standing up to him.

No manager, no matter who they are, should be able to exercise that much power, it’s really bad for the club in the long term, especially once that manager inevitably departs. Look at post Fergie Man Utd for a perfect example of what happens in the aftermath of one person being allowed far too much power over every aspect of a club.

Contrast that with Brighton’s point blank refusal to be held to ransom by De Zerbi.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

He’s doing a good job, don’t get me wrong. I just don’t get the rush to give him a long contract based on where we are at the moment. We are where we should be in my opinion.

Some good signings, Cooper being the standout, Burrows is too inconsistent for him to be classed as ‘incredible’, he almost cost us a goal today with some poor play. Campbell has been good but needs to be available more. Moore is a bit shit. Souttar was great but he’s been flogged to death and subsequently he’s done for the season.

On the Anel and Souza point, one was already a proven very good player in the Championship, the other one is in that weird gap where he’s too good for the league we’re in but didn’t look good in a poor team in the league above. He obviously fancies it a lot more in this league.

Like I said he’s doing well but nothing to write home about and certainly nothing to be giving Pardew contracts out on the back off and making him rich again when he gets bored or gets sacked.

I’m not going to argue with your opinions however just a few points of note.
I said Burrows had been incredible for the money not that he’d been incredible.
Souttars injury being down to him being flagged to death is a new one. He’s just come back from a ban so I think putting his injury at the door of the manager for over using him is a stretch too far in order to make a point that isn’t there.
Anel wasn’t very good last time he was here, certainly after his bout of illness and at times he seemed to struggle after being amazing to start with. That drop off is being conveniently ignored here.
Last off can you post where someone’s suggested a 7 year contract similar to Pardew? I must have missed that post and the obvious support for it.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Last off can you post where someone’s suggested a 7 year contract similar to Pardew? I must have missed that post and the obvious support for it.

The suggestion was 5 years, I was exaggerating for effect.

 

[HarryHaslam]

Didn't know any bookies had us as favourites tbh, most the stuff I saw had us 4th-6th.

18/1 to win the league. 5/1 for promotion.

With Skybet.

 

[KiwiBlabe]

I get it, he’s a Blade, he gets the club and for me it’s both pleasing to see and it’s holding us back. We are a club that loves parochialism, the rumours threads over the years about ex-players returning are proof enough. We’ll never move to the next level as a club with this outlook.

There are managers in the league overachieving with a lot less than us, at the moment we are ‘achieving’ if I were to give us a mid term grade. If he gets us promoted and makes some astute signings in January then we’ll be ‘exceeding’ and the 2 year contract will be just reward.

Jeez, you're a hard man HB, . I had much lower expectations of this year based on our struggles last time and was expecting a season similar to that Luton are experiencing. If I was to give us a mid term grade it would be over achieving, especially with the tools provided. I think we generally agree that a 2 or 3 year deal has been earned by CW and his team, wee differ slightly as to when to give it.

BTW, I don't advocate for CW due to him being a Blade, its because I like his style and how he goes about his job. Him being a Blade is undoubtably a bonus though!!

 

[Houston_Blade]

Jeez, you're a hard man HB, . I had much lower expectations of this year based on our struggles last time and was expecting a season similar to that Luton are experiencing. If I was to give us a mid term grade it would be over achieving, especially with the tools provided. I think we generally agree that a 2 or 3 year deal has been earned by CW and his team, wee differ slightly as to when to give it.

BTW, I don't advocate for CW due to him being a Blade, it’s because I like his style and how he goes about his job. Him being a Blade is undoubtably a bonus though!!

I must just be harder to please!

I’d say that most teams in the league would love to have Cooper, Anel, Hamer, Davies, O’Hare and even Moore (I know he’s been a bit crap but he’s a proven player at this level) as well as the likes Burrows, Campbell (when fit) and JRS in their squads. We’ve also had the benefit of Souttar (sadly now taken away from us).

Add in the likes of Brooks, Seriki, Peck and Arblaster who teams would kill to have in their academies I’m sure.

We’re misfiring in forward areas apart from Campbell, who seems to have the knack.

Overall we have a minimum top 6 squad and are where we should be for me. To push on we need a forward or 2 and a CB plus some backup for injuries when they happen.

 

[Porirua-Blade]

Jeez, you're a hard man HB, . I had much lower expectations of this year based on our struggles last time and was expecting a season similar to that Luton are experiencing. If I was to give us a mid term grade it would be over achieving, especially with the tools provided. I think we generally agree that a 2 or 3 year deal has been earned by CW and his team, wee differ slightly as to when to give it.

BTW, I don't advocate for CW due to him being a Blade, its because I like his style and how he goes about his job. Him being a Blade is undoubtably a bonus though!!

He does also seem to have a knack for getting youngsters to perform. That is a positive toward Chrissy for me.

Seriki's career looked like it was heading the way of Coulibaly before this season. He's been forced into it and has had ups and downs, but all in all Peck is having a good first full pro season. Brought through D Brooks first time round. Could make an argument he got 6 months of class out of Lundstram (although could also argue he managed that poorly by refusing to drop him...).

I think he has definitely earned an extension. I do agree that he shouldnt be let loose with transfers and scouting though... hopefully that is a lesson the Prince has passed on to the Consortium

 

[St Annington]

I suspect it's highly likely that the news owners will go with a DOF model in which case Wilder's (in)ability in the transfer market is irrelevant. The first team coach (Wilder or whoever) will have players bought for them and told to get on with it. Wilder's future would then depend on if/how he can work within that context.

 

[MadDad38]

Bluntly, the employer in this case holds all the cards. Everyone knows that CW is not going to be offered an EPL or the England job in the next 12 months no matter how well he does with us.

So there is no real downside to waiting to see where we are in May and then making some decisions on that basis. Why reduce your options when you don’t have to?

That said, if we achieve promotion then I am sure he (and his coaching team) will be rewarded.

 

[Isar]

If Wilder changed his name to Christino de-Silva Hammerköpft he would be very much rated a great manager and tactical genius.

 

[McGrath]

Bluntly, the employer in this case holds all the cards. Everyone knows that CW is not going to be offered an EPL or the England job in the next 12 months no matter how well he does with us.

So there is no real downside to waiting to see where we are in May and then making some decisions on that basis. Why reduce your options when you don’t have to?

That said, if we achieve promotion then I am sure he (and his coaching team) will be rewarded.

There's a big downside.... Uncertainty

Players may not want to sign new contracts and coaching staff may leave if they don't think they'll be in a job at the end of the season and get another job offer.

These things can over shadow things

Plus we are midway through a rebuild anyway

 

[FredZeppelin]

If Wilder changed his name to Christino de-Silva Hammerköpft he would be very much rated a great manager and tactical genius.

I'd have thought it more likely that he'd be sectioned as a schizophrenic, personally.

.....unless of course he puts on a dress and make up. Then he'd get his own show on the BBC, his own 'Play OJO' tv advert, and be labelled "so brave" and "groundbreaking".

Thinking about it, that might actually appeal to CW?

UTB