Wilder new deal

[YES Blade]

If CW didn't have previous with us, what would you say? If we'd brought in a complete new entity, last November and they'd overseen the transition and guided us to the top of the division, would you still be saying the same?

Our aim is to become an established Premier League club. Based on previous seasons in the Premier League, there are definitely doubts whether Wilder is good enough at that level. So why give him a long contract? If promoted there is a good chance we’ll be sacking him shortly after the start of the new deal.

If the new manager is someone with a decent track record or at another club it’s a completely different situation, we’d need to offer longer terms to attract them to join the club.

If we went for someone in a similar situation to when Wilder came back e.g. out of work, low chance of getting a decent job. That new manager would get a similar short deal.

Basically, it’s all about the situation and what’s best for United.

 

[YES Blade]

Wilder has performed a minor miracle to put us in contention. That should be recognised by the ownership. You wouldn’t sack Lewis Hamilton for not winning races with a car that only had 3 wheels ! Their due diligence would take into account the shit show of last season and the progress under Wilder . Summer break to assess for me .

I suggest you look at the rest of the championship. What budgets are they working with? Look at the players in their squads.

Hamer cost £20m, Vini £10m. O’Hare left Coventry because we offered more money, Moore chose us over Hull. We signed Cooper for a fee that broke Plymouth’s sale record.

Wilder has done a great job this season but it’s far from a minor miracle or comparable to Lewis Hamilton driving a three wheel car.

 

[Dougie]

Hamer cost £20m

No he didn’t.

 

[YES Blade]

No he didn’t.

What did he cost then?

 

[Dougie]

What did he cost then?

£15m

 

[nopigfansintown]

No he didn’t.

United have a tiny squad of senior pros which undermines the "normal Parachute payment team so expected to do well" fallacious argument. You have to bear that in mind when you analyse our cost base. We are five to ten senior pro wages down.

Senior pros earn the big £. We have three Prem loans. Most teams at this level have a couple at least e.g the pigs. It's not a parachute club thing. With the exception of Moore and O'Hare our permanents don't scream "big wages at Championship level". The left overs from the Prem on big money are Hamer, Davies and Brewster. Nobody wouldve been suggesting the latter two would be helping to give us a big advantage this season. They were liabilities not assets. We have actually sold players to our direct competition due to the contract offered (Bogle) and lost others to teams that offered higher wages (Mcburnie).

Things can change this window

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

I suggest you look at the rest of the championship. What budgets are they working with? Look at the players in their squads.

Hamer cost £20m, Vini £10m. O’Hare left Coventry because we offered more money, Moore chose us over Hull. We signed Cooper for a fee that broke Plymouth’s sale record.

Wilder has done a great job this season but it’s far from a minor miracle or comparable to Lewis Hamilton driving a three wheel car.

If football were played on paper, you might have a point. However, it’s not. Consider the challenge of integrating a completely new team and getting them to play cohesively. Even the players he previously had are now adapting to a completely new formation. Furthermore, imagine taking that team and losing 60% of your first-choice players to injury, yet still keeping them at the top of the table.

He regularly has four or five youth players on the bench. While I agree that we have more effective game-changers in our squad, I believe that, with the current resources available, nearly all the top 10 clubs have a stronger bench than we do.

If it weren't for the points deduction—something that isn’t Wilder's fault—we would be at the top of the league.

As I mentioned in a previous comment on this thread, a two-year deal seems appropriate, and we can reassess from there.

My criticism of Wilder this season lies in the big games. I felt that Leeds were simply better than us on that day and more motivated (maybe this was Baldock related that we struggled), while Burnley tactically had the upper hand. It's possible that in that game we were limited to do anything else by the unavailability of certain players.

On paper Leeds & Burnley have better squads than us yet technically we’re above them.

 

[YES Blade]

If football were played on paper, you might have a point. However, it’s not. Consider the challenge of integrating a completely new team and getting them to play cohesively. Even the players he previously had are now adapting to a completely new formation. Furthermore, imagine taking that team and losing 60% of your first-choice players to injury, yet still keeping them at the top of the table.

He regularly has four or five youth players on the bench. While I agree that we have more effective game-changers in our squad, I believe that, with the current resources available, nearly all the top 10 clubs have a stronger bench than we do.

If it weren't for the points deduction—something that isn’t Wilder's fault—we would be at the top of the league.

As I mentioned in a previous comment on this thread, a two-year deal seems appropriate, and we can reassess from there.

My criticism of Wilder this season lies in the big games. I felt that Leeds were simply better than us on that day and more motivated (maybe this was Baldock related that we struggled), while Burnley tactically had the upper hand. It's possible that in that game we were limited to do anything else by the unavailability of certain players.

On paper Leeds & Burnley have better squads than us yet technically we’re above them.

Agreed, that’s why I said Wilder is doing a great job.

My point is that he isn’t producing “minor miracles”.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

Agreed, that’s why I said Wilder is doing a great job.

My point is that he isn’t producing “minor miracles”.

Agreed, it wasn’t a dig at you. It was a summary of my views based on a few negative (ish) comments from others that feel that we should wait before we reward Wilder.

 

[Bladezz]

I’d rather we don’t offer him a long contract that will only serve to make him richer upon leaving. We did this last time and his request on leaving according to the owner at the time was for a £4m payment (I don’t for 1 minute believe this is what he ended up with).

Let’s say all of that is true. If wilder is sacked it will be contracted what he is due. If his payout is £4m then that’s what the Prince agreed too. If he agrees to £4 then that’s what he gets. This whole nonsense of asking above a contract is insane. I thought everyone had realised it was all nonsense and good spin by PA.

When Wilder left people forget the outrage, even on here it was a Wilder love in. Prince said he asked for £4m the heat when off the Prince into Wilder.

I’d want Wilder here for 10+ years. He’s the best manager for our football club. He also seems to have learnt from his mistakes. Surely you’d want the same?

 

[Bladezz]

Agreed, that’s why I said Wilder is doing a great job.

My point is that he isn’t producing “minor miracles”.

If he took over Luton in January and got them to top of the league by Xmas it would be seen as monumental. It’s a lot harder than it looks.

 

[YES Blade]

Let’s say all of that is true. If wilder is sacked it will be contracted what he is due. If his payout is £4m then that’s what the Prince agreed too. If he agrees to £4 then that’s what he gets. This whole nonsense of asking above a contract is insane. I thought everyone had realised it was all nonsense and good spin by PA.

When Wilder left people forget the outrage, even on here it was a Wilder love in. Prince said he asked for £4m the heat when off the Prince into Wilder.

I’d want Wilder here for 10+ years. He’s the best manager for our football club. He also seems to have learnt from his mistakes. Surely you’d want the same?

We all want Wilder to be here for the next 10 years because that would obviously mean we’ve been very successful. However it makes sense for him to be on shorter contracts in case he has to leave by “mutual consent”.

 

[Ron_Justice]

Our aim is to become an established Premier League club. Based on previous seasons in the Premier League, there are definitely doubts whether Wilder is good enough at that level. So why give him a long contract? If promoted there is a good chance we’ll be sacking him shortly after the start of the new deal.

If the new manager is someone with a decent track record or at another club it’s a completely different situation, we’d need to offer longer terms to attract them to join the club.

If we went for someone in a similar situation to when Wilder came back e.g. out of work, low chance of getting a decent job. That new manager would get a similar short deal.

Basically, it’s all about the situation and what’s best for United.

Yep, agree with most of that - not sure the new owners are going to give him a deal then sack him in short order - they've proven to be quite shrewd business people . I doubt they're walking into this situation with some new naivety. Everything else, sure, that's all makes sense, but I'm not saying give him a 5 year deal. 3 maybe. Anything else feels like 'we don't fully trust you with the keys', anything longer and we're in danger of stagnating and losing money of a severance deal. Deals can always be extended if we're flying.

My point remains though, if we'd sacked Hecky and got someone in on an 18 month deal, the expectation from the board and fans would have been, 'see how you get on and we'll see'. Well, I'd argue that CWAK have passed their probation period with flying colours. His departure left a horrible taste in our mouths. No doubt, but slate wiped clean, I'd say he's earned another shot.

 

[Ron_Justice]

I suggest you look at the rest of the championship. What budgets are they working with? Look at the players in their squads.

Hamer cost £20m, Vini £10m. O’Hare left Coventry because we offered more money, Moore chose us over Hull. We signed Cooper for a fee that broke Plymouth’s sale record.

Wilder has done a great job this season but it’s far from a minor miracle or comparable to Lewis Hamilton driving a three wheel car.

Not entirely sure you can say he's doing a good job because we have pricey players. The history of the Championship is littered with teams gambling and falling short. It's not a hindrance, absolutely, but there are no guarantees cough Brewster cough....

 

[Pegster]

I suggest you look at the rest of the championship. What budgets are they working with? Look at the players in their squads.

Hamer cost £20m, Vini £10m. O’Hare left Coventry because we offered more money, Moore chose us over Hull. We signed Cooper for a fee that broke Plymouth’s sale record.

Wilder has done a great job this season but it’s far from a minor miracle or comparable to Lewis Hamilton driving a three wheel car.

You don't mention losing Bogle for £5m or Osula for £10-15m ( depending on which news outlet you look at ) .

 

[MadDad38]

If CW didn't have previous with us, what would you say? If we'd brought in a complete new entity, last November and they'd overseen the transition and guided us to the top of the division, would you still be saying the same?

If my aunty had wheels she’d be a bike.

Salient in any negotiation/decision is that the gap in Wilder’s reputation between that in SUFC and that in pretty much any other club is huge, so the risk of poaching/jumping ship is imo low.

On the other hand if we end up in the play offs, bomb again and the owners feel a reset is in order then why tie your hands now….?

As it happens I think Wilder has done a great job since the summer, hope we get promoted with him and he gets a fair (ie backed financially) crack at the premier league - and as the beneficiary of a new contract the day after promotion secured.

 

[YES Blade]

You don't mention losing Bogle for £5m or Osula for £10-15m ( depending on which news outlet you look at ) .

Doesn’t change the point I was making, selling Bogle and Osula doesn’t make the job Wilder has done a “minor miracle” or likened to Lewis Hamilton driving a three wheel car.

 

[Bladesince59]

2 YEARS IS PLENTY

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

20 odd million spent on shit. Both are facts.

At the time we signed Brewster this is what the scouting team would have told us were getting.

Injuries killed his career which couldn’t have been predicted. Up until that point he’d rarely had any injuries which he talks openly about in a podcast with Bogle from last season.

I don’t rate Brewster at all, he’ll leave at the end of the season but the fact some think Wilder can’t sign players for money based on his decision to bring Brewster to the club is very short sighted.

You look at some of the players we wanted but couldn’t afford - Watkins, Maupay, Cash the list goes on. He signed what he could with the money & wages available to him and most of the time it wasn’t his first choice.

 

[Bladesman]

View attachment 201175
At the time we signed Brewster this is what the scouting team would have told us were getting.

Injuries killed his career which couldn’t have been predicted. Up until that point he’d rarely had any injuries which he talks openly about in a podcast with Bogle from last season.

I don’t rate Brewster at all, he’ll leave at the end of the season but the fact some think Wilder can’t sign players for money based on his decision to bring Brewster to the club is very short sighted.

You look at some of the players we wanted but couldn’t afford - Watkins, Maupay, Cash the list goes on. He signed what he could with the money & wages available to him and most of the time it wasn’t his first choice.

Rhian was in decent form when we signed him off the back of his loan spell at Swansea. Although the injury issues we have had and still have as a club is a cause for concern. That isn't true about Rhian though he had an ankle injury at Liverpool that required surgery which kept him out for some time. I suspect that has possibly impacted his fitness ever since.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

Rhian was in decent form when we signed him off the back of his loan spell at Swansea. Although the injury issues we have had and still have as a club is a cause for concern. That isn't true about Rhian though he had an ankle injury at Liverpool that required surgery which kept him out for some time. I suspect that has possibly impacted his fitness ever since.

That’s fair, it doesn’t take away from the point we all Inc the club thought we were signing Englands next best striker. Nobody could have guessed what happened next.

I remember a confident Brewster doing one of those YouTube interviews and commenting on a celebration he’d do when he scored predicting it would be his second game, he was clearly coming in confident.

It’s a shame but so many clubs have squads that include players that didn’t work out. The issue we have is we didn’t survive in the Premiership long enough to write it off as a bad deal

 

[Houston_Blade]

Let’s say all of that is true. If wilder is sacked it will be contracted what he is due. If his payout is £4m then that’s what the Prince agreed too. If he agrees to £4 then that’s what he gets. This whole nonsense of asking above a contract is insane. I thought everyone had realised it was all nonsense and good spin by PA.

When Wilder left people forget the outrage, even on here it was a Wilder love in. Prince said he asked for £4m the heat when off the Prince into Wilder.

I’d want Wilder here for 10+ years. He’s the best manager for our football club. He also seems to have learnt from his mistakes. Surely you’d want the same?

If he can put some progressive thinking into the way the club works then that would be a good reason to keep him around for a long time. Keep him going with 2 year deals though, we all know you can go from hero to zero very quickly.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

Seems new owners looking to give him a long term deal thankfully, he could be our Sir Alex

 

[Pintor75]

I'd give him 18months, then if he flops it won't be a massive pay off, no need to panic as yet nobody else is trying to poach him

 

[JayGreen17]

12 months only

 

[McGrath]

Give him a 3 and a half year deal minimum for me

If we don't go up then let him complete the rebuild. If we do go up, then no matter who's in charge, we'll probably go down, so might as well have him in place to do what he's done this season and take us back up!

 

[Down the Channels]

Give him a 3 and a half year deal minimum for me

If we don't go up then let him complete the rebuild. If we do go up, then no matter who's in charge, we'll probably go down, so might as well have him in place to do what he's done this season and take us back up!

Exactly this.
We need to look at this realistically if we are ever going to develop into a stable Premier League team.
Hopefully by that time the academy will have developed more too.

 

[McGrath]

Exactly this.
We need to look at this realistically if we are ever going to develop into a stable Premier League team.
Hopefully by that time the academy will have developed more too.

Thank you.

It's not just the academy that needs to be brought up to standard, it's scouting, recruitment, the training ground, analytics, "player welfare", sports medicine and much more.

I think stability in the coaching staff is key. Plus I think clubs fire good managers far too quickly.

 

[Booker4]

Should be given a three year extension in my view, hope it's something like that. There's no manager out there that could do a better job at United than Wilder. For those that say we have parachute payments and should be up there regardless, just look at Luton. When we got relegated last season the team was broken and our best player was BBD who we lost of course. Many fans were predicting relegation again or mid table nothingness.

Mcburnie went who would have been very handy in the this league, there's been continual disruption due to the takeover and yet we're joint second with a far worse injury list than any other team in the top six and a very small squad in comparison to Leeds and Burnley who should be miles clear in my view.

The signing of Campbell has been inspired, as was Souttar. Ill put my neck on the line now and say we'll be top two this season, and will compete to win the league right till the end if not win it. That's based on what we've seen already and that the team is going to be strengthened this window. Great times to support the club. The best since Harry Bassett.

 

[Keen Blade]

Danny Hall been on today with leaked news about CW getting a new contract this month.
I thought these new owners would be better at keeping things confidential and plugging the leaks.
Let them get the transfers & loans sorted this month.
Plenty of time in February or later to sort something for CW.

IF new owners are going to improve the way we operate , they need time to decide on what they see as Wilder's remit - no point them offering a new contract on the old job description if it might change in line with any management structural changes they want to make.

The time to change Wilder's areas of responsibility (eg putting scouting , recruitment , Academy etc under a Director of Football and asking him to concentrate on coaching , First Team management , opposition analysis , match preparation , matchday duties etc) - if there are to be changes - is BEFORE he's offered a new contract.

We've heard nothing yet from the owners on what , if anything , they want to change in the running of the club.